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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:17:39 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ATF is out of control. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:18:52 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand the pulling 9k out of the bank thing? I can see depositing 9k once but when it's in the bank already it's not like they don't have record. Does withdrawing your own money get reported? From my understanding anything above 10k on deposit or withdraw gets reported to IRS. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:19:00 PM EST
[#3]
Overreach is by design. They're basically doing the equivalent of "chest bumping" someone hoping to get a reaction.
Truly sad what these Federal agencies have become...and the people employed by them are willing to do to Americans...peaceful Americans at that. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:20:06 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not trying to make any point, I have made a point. We went from an lighting link/Auto card blank, to left field in an effort to steer the conversation away from the point that was made. I was very courteous in my exchange and I talk and type the same way to everyone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The shitty back handed crack you made only detracts from the point you are trying to make. How about showing a little common courtesy next time if you want to be taken seriously. I am not trying to make any point, I have made a point. We went from an lighting link/Auto card blank, to left field in an effort to steer the conversation away from the point that was made. I was very courteous in my exchange and I talk and type the same way to everyone. You and I have differing ideas of "very courteous" since I believe saying people are off their meds is in impolite thing. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:20:13 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Overreach is by design. They're basically doing the equivalent of "chest bumping" someone hoping to get a reaction. Truly sad what these Federal agencies have become...and the people employed by them are willing to do to Americans...peaceful Americans at that. I knew when the guy posted hidden camera footage of that ATF raid that he was gonna get his shit pushed in. That's how the Fed Cartel does things. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:20:50 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/498555/il_1588xN_2881252312_ns72_jpg-2256735.JPG "Because im not afraid of some fat losers in khakies" You can't make the machine gun from that drawing as a reference. You would need to provide a detailed drawing with measurements needed (or to scale) to machine the parts that are considered illegal arms for citizens to own under the NFA. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:22:37 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From my understanding anything above 10k on deposit or withdraw gets reported to IRS. it doesn't even have to be 10K. you can have a number of transactions/pattern or whatever that can trigger suspicious activity report (SAR) which can then lead to a structuring charge. Or you can just run for congress, insider trade, make millions and millions of dollars, fuck the country up, and nothing will ever happen to you. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:22:46 PM EST
[#8]
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:23:44 PM EST
[#9]
Burn your shoestrings!
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:24:07 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not trying to make any point, I have made a point. We went from an lighting link/Auto card blank, to left field in an effort to steer the conversation away from the point that was made. I was very courteous in my exchange and I talk and type the same way to everyone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The shitty back handed crack you made only detracts from the point you are trying to make. How about showing a little common courtesy next time if you want to be taken seriously. I am not trying to make any point, I have made a point. We went from an lighting link/Auto card blank, to left field in an effort to steer the conversation away from the point that was made. I was very courteous in my exchange and I talk and type the same way to everyone. I'll break it down for you since you seem to be struggling to understand. You said "having an SOT, having a friend who sells non-NFA items (drawings on metal), advertising those items, and telling people how to make them in to NFA items" is "conspiracy" because he has an SOT. I said "If he has an SOT, sells coat hangers (also a non NFA item), and tells people how to turn them in to shitty DIASs (illegal items), is that a conspiracy?" Faced with the obvious answer (no, of course it isn't, the only possible crime would be on whoever made the DIAS), you realized how stupid your argument was, and instead of admitting it you are accusing me of being off my meds and "coming out of left field". |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:24:32 PM EST
[#11]
bAcK tHe BlUe
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:25:01 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You and I have differing ideas of "very courteous" since I believe saying people are off their meds is in impolite thing. Most people do have differing ideas. I have asked everyone from my Father, to CEO's of companies if they are off their meds. Doesn't mean I was being rude or discourteous its a question. Blood sugar could also be an item that causes brain fog and a lack of following a conversation. If I said I find this post of you stating "differing ideas" isn't courteous would you change your ways? Would you apologize? I hope not... |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:27:08 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it doesn't even have to be 10K. you can have a number of transactions/pattern or whatever that can trigger suspicious activity report (SAR) which can then lead to a structuring charge. Or you can just run for congress, insider trade, make millions and millions of dollars, fuck the country up, and nothing will ever happen to you. The latter statement, while funny, is more true than what I want to admit in our country. We ever find out what happened with Hunter Biden and his pistol he bought on a falsified 4473? Yea... |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:28:06 PM EST
[#14]
I guess they could have tried selling a blank piece of metal and an adhesive lable... Or better yet, make the person who buys it print the label. Would printing a label be manufacturing the machine gun - or would simply owning a pdf of a file that could print the label do it. How about owning a printer that could print a label of a possible cut drawing for a piece of metal you don't own yet.
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:28:19 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most people do have differing ideas. I have asked everyone from my Father, to CEO's of companies if they are off their meds. Doesn't mean I was being rude or discourteous its a question. Blood sugar could also be an item that causes brain fog and a lack of following a conversation. If I said I find this post of you stating "differing ideas" isn't courteous would you change your ways? Would you apologize? I hope not... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You and I have differing ideas of "very courteous" since I believe saying people are off their meds is in impolite thing. Most people do have differing ideas. I have asked everyone from my Father, to CEO's of companies if they are off their meds. Doesn't mean I was being rude or discourteous its a question. Blood sugar could also be an item that causes brain fog and a lack of following a conversation. If I said I find this post of you stating "differing ideas" isn't courteous would you change your ways? Would you apologize? I hope not...  That's amazing. Please don't stop posting in this thread. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:28:30 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The process is the punishment. They don't have to actually prove any of the charges to utterly ruin someone. The only way I see to fight this is with organized legal defense like antifa uses. Lawyers and bail funds set up waiting to defend whoever gets pulled into the system. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:29:11 PM EST
[#17]
thats what you get when you redefine machine gun to mean any object that has the ability to alter rate of fire. rubber bands are machine guns. shoe laces are machine guns. if you own a ball of rubber bands you own several dozen illegal machine guns. but keep saying bUmPsToCkS dOnT MaTt3r people keep going to jail
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:29:32 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand the pulling 9k out of the bank thing? I can see depositing 9k once but when it's in the bank already it's not like they don't have record. Does withdrawing your own money get reported? Yes any cash transaction or cash equivalent gets reported if going through the bank I believe. Certain other industries also. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:29:38 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ATF is out of control. Hide your coat hangers too, y'all. Abortion is still legal. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:30:05 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are you talking about? Clothes hangers are not an NFA item. You took a leap off into the deep end on that one.. come back when you have taken your meds. Neither are plates of steel with drawings on them. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:31:11 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF will lose this, and they know it. They are using the process to punish these men. They are way out of control, as the ATF doesn't serve a legitimate government function. I doubt it. Even if they lose the gun things it sounds like he is dead to rights on the banking stuff. So he'll have to take a deal or almost surely be found guilty in court. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:34:14 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither are plates of steel with drawings on them. Not according to the charges, so there's that. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:35:03 PM EST
[#23]
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:35:07 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Take your meds my guy. Told you, come back later when they kick in and you have some cohesive thought process. Once more, its NOT JUST the act of talking about it, its NOT JUST the act of manufacturing the AutoCards, its NOT JUST selling the Autocards, its NOT JUST showing on youtube how to cut said autocards out and manufacture an NFA item, its NOT JUST the FFL+SOT, its NOT JUST the under 10k withdraws at the banks to avoid being flagged, this list goes on... it is the culmination of all of it. Sounds exactly like something an alphabet boi would say. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:35:23 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It ceased to be just 1A right after he started manufacturing, selling and pimping out his auto cards. Had he just made the video of how to make a lighting link, or clothes hanger, or whatever item its not an issue, and there are plenty of those out there. it's a fucking piece of sheet metal with a drawing on it. you can manufacture an 80% lower, you can manufacture a suppressor that just needs the holes drilled, you can manufacture and sell binary explosives that are not yet mixed etc etc... he was selling too many and they just want to shut him down. Doesn't matter if the charges stick he will 99.9% stop selling them and the process will be the punishment. now as far as the structuring that will likely hurt his legal defense fund and he could well get fucked hard on this but it sure as shit doesn't break the letter of the law. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:37:18 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not according to the charges, so there's that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Neither are plates of steel with drawings on them. Not according to the charges, so there's that. You sure carry a lot of water for the feds for someone that wants this to fail. 
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:37:26 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Take your meds my guy. Told you, come back later when they kick in and you have some cohesive thought process. Once more, its NOT JUST the act of talking about it, its NOT JUST the act of manufacturing the AutoCards, its NOT JUST selling the Autocards, its NOT JUST showing on youtube how to cut said autocards out and manufacture an NFA item, its NOT JUST the FFL+SOT, its NOT JUST the under 10k withdraws at the banks to avoid being flagged, this list goes on... it is the culmination of all of it. I posted the definition of conspiracy in federal law, and it doesn't have a "culmination of all of it" section. Conspiracy does have elements that need to be proven, and they don't seem to exist here.  Criminal Law: The Crime of Conspiracy |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:38:03 PM EST
[#28]
To be totally honest, I did not think withdrawing money was an issue. I am wrong of course. Last time I did a cash withdrawal I joked with my bank about the reporting requirement. I have did more than a few larger withdrawals of the the last year. Used vehicles and used horses - cash is king.
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:38:33 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's amazing. Please don't stop posting in this thread. Glad you enjoyed the quip! Its been a fun thread. Most might not agree with my opinion, but that's why we all have them and should be free to express them. A little constructive discourse is a great way to spend the afternoon closing time! To keep it on topic, this guy that is charged really is dumb. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:40:07 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glad you enjoyed the quip! Its been a fun thread. Most might not agree with my opinion, but that's why we all have them and should be free to express them. A little constructive discourse is a great way to spend the afternoon closing time! To keep it on topic, this guy that is charged really is dumb. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's amazing. Please don't stop posting in this thread. Glad you enjoyed the quip! Its been a fun thread. Most might not agree with my opinion, but that's why we all have them and should be free to express them. A little constructive discourse is a great way to spend the afternoon closing time! To keep it on topic, this guy that is charged really is dumb. The guy did nothing wrong morally or according to the Constitution. The people, like you, who support these unamerican laws and their enforcement are worse than "dumb". |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:40:08 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds exactly like something an alphabet boi would say. Feds abounding right? Everyone is a fed anymore.. Can all of the internet be a fed? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:40:36 PM EST
[#32]
Lol
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:40:36 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most people do have differing ideas. I have asked everyone from my Father, to CEO's of companies if they are off their meds. Doesn't mean I was being rude or discourteous its a question. Blood sugar could also be an item that causes brain fog and a lack of following a conversation. If I said I find this post of you stating "differing ideas" isn't courteous would you change your ways? Would you apologize? I hope not... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You and I have differing ideas of "very courteous" since I believe saying people are off their meds is in impolite thing. Most people do have differing ideas. I have asked everyone from my Father, to CEO's of companies if they are off their meds. Doesn't mean I was being rude or discourteous its a question. Blood sugar could also be an item that causes brain fog and a lack of following a conversation. If I said I find this post of you stating "differing ideas" isn't courteous would you change your ways? Would you apologize? I hope not... Did they take it as a compliment? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:40:55 PM EST
[#34]
Edit: fuck it, I'm out.
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:41:01 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it's a fucking piece of sheet metal with a drawing on it. you can manufacture an 80% lower, you can manufacture a suppressor that just needs the holes drilled, you can manufacture and sell binary explosives that are not yet mixed etc etc... he was selling too many and they just want to shut him down. Doesn't matter if the charges stick he will 99.9% stop selling them and the process will be the punishment. now as far as the structuring that will likely hurt his legal defense fund and he could well get fucked hard on this but it sure as shit doesn't break the letter of the law. Sure go ahead and try to register that new manufacture auto sear, just like you would a suppressor! Let me know how it goes! |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:42:04 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did they take it as a compliment? Yes.. We got the deal done, I made money, and they laughed. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:42:06 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure go ahead and try to register that new manufacture auto sear, just like you would a suppressor! Let me know how it goes! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: it's a fucking piece of sheet metal with a drawing on it. you can manufacture an 80% lower, you can manufacture a suppressor that just needs the holes drilled, you can manufacture and sell binary explosives that are not yet mixed etc etc... he was selling too many and they just want to shut him down. Doesn't matter if the charges stick he will 99.9% stop selling them and the process will be the punishment. now as far as the structuring that will likely hurt his legal defense fund and he could well get fucked hard on this but it sure as shit doesn't break the letter of the law. Sure go ahead and try to register that new manufacture auto sear, just like you would a suppressor! Let me know how it goes! Because there is a law, based on the government's excessively broad taxing power, that they refuse to accept a tax on. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:42:40 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not according to the charges, so there's that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Neither are plates of steel with drawings on them. Not according to the charges, so there's that. That's why this thread was started. Out of control FATF. We have drawings posted above. At what point do they become an nfa item? Box it with a piece of flat metal cut from a fender of a car? How about lengths and degrees of bends laser etched? What if I put a sharpie mark where the 3rd hole goes on my AR lower? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:43:39 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryMY PHONE IS NOW A MACHINE GUN!!!!! |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:44:29 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guy did nothing wrong morally or according to the Constitution. The people, like you, who support these unamerican laws and their enforcement are worse than "dumb". I don't support these laws, but I also don't actively disobey them. I am just unwilling to break the law or push up to the line, and thus go to jail, even if it is morally and constitutionally acceptable. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:48:54 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because there is a law, based on the government's excessively broad taxing power, that they refuse to accept a tax on. Nope it was the Hughes act of 86 that said no new manufacture machine guns for public use. You can manufacture a suppressor with the correct paper work as a regular citizen. If you are an FFL+SOT you can manufacture a new machine gun with the correct paperwork, but you can't sell to a civilian without the FFL+SOT. Hold on.. before the "Yes you can manufacture them!" You as a civilian CAN manufacture them all you like, but it is illegal. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:49:21 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't support these laws, but I also don't actively disobey them. I am just unwilling to break the law or push up to the line, and thus go to jail, even if it is morally and constitutionally acceptable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The guy did nothing wrong morally or according to the Constitution. The people, like you, who support these unamerican laws and their enforcement are worse than "dumb". I don't support these laws, but I also don't actively disobey them. I am just unwilling to break the law or push up to the line, and thus go to jail, even if it is morally and constitutionally acceptable. That’s okay. There’s always a need for somebody that can carry the ammo cans. #bringbacktheScag |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:50:13 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryThat first drawing looks like it would make a dandy tool to prop my phone up while watching a movie. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:51:20 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure go ahead and try to register that new manufacture auto sear, just like you would a suppressor! Let me know how it goes! nobody said shit about manufacturing a new autosear or registering it. A block of metal with a drawing of an autosear on it is not an auto sear. a metal tube endcaps and k baffles without holes bored are not a suppressor a piece of sheet metal with a drawing on it is not a lightning link. i also can't mix a binary explosive together and then transport or sell it. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:57:42 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: nobody said shit about manufacturing a new autosear or registering it. A block of metal with a drawing of an autosear on it is not an auto sear. a metal tube endcaps and k baffles without holes bored are not a suppressor a piece of sheet metal with a drawing on it is not a lightning link And a solid block of aluminum is not a firearm or machine gun, no matter how much people want to pretend it is. How far is one willing to take the theory of thoughtcrime? Does owning a sports car make one automatically guilty of illegal street racing? Does having a legal prescription for a controlled substance automatically make one guilty of possession with intention to distribute? Does having a penis make one automatically guilty of rape, or having a vagina make one automatically guilty of prostitution? Where does one draw the lines between having the potential means to commit a crime and actually committing the crime? I'm willing to bet almost every single person in this country has the means on hand to create chemical weapons. Should they all be charged with committing terrorist acts for merely owning bleach and ammonia? Where do you draw the line? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:59:47 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That first drawing looks like it would make a dandy tool to prop my phone up while watching a movie. There was a guy that made some nifty coat hanger wall hooks. I think he got loved tenderly. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 5:59:52 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Keib Lightning Link Check out the link and enjoy being a felon for committing a full auto thought crime   Attached File |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 6:02:04 PM EST
[#48]
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Posted: 1/27/2022 6:02:32 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel so much safer already. Were we expecting the ATF to go after criminals that convert Glocks to auto and shoot cops? That would be dangerous, so they go after guys who make YouTube videos. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 6:02:56 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arguably I'm a criminal because I have the photo of the keycard saved on my computer, since drawings of machine guns are illegal now. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. We all do. There's a photo on this thread, which means it's now in everyone's cache. |
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