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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:01:32 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are far too many obedient and submissive Americans in this country, which is precisely why it is going to shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: COC There are far too many obedient and submissive Americans in this country, which is precisely why it is going to shit. “I’m a Law Abiding Citizen” |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:04:54 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You go be brave and post it up on the internet! Maybe you are a glowie for trying to goad people into breaking laws? Can the internet be a fed? https://media1.giphy.com/media/7v735rSZA1Szm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47ox7yjsrmebgoiep1lp87fm45uevdmplqcjsabnwe&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g You seem to be pushing people to do things... if they do thats conspiracy right? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:10:16 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read through the court documents. They're charging one of these guys because he was structuring bank withdrawals at $9k, six times in a row on six nearly-consecutive days like a fucking moron, to try and avoid the mandatory reporting paperwork to the government. Remember Al Capone--They only ended up getting him because of tax evasion charges. Do whatever pro-liberty stuff you want, but for fuck's sake don't think you're going to outsmart the IRS. Maybe he has a big gambling of cocaine problem? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:17:17 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have anything coc compliant to say  |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:17:58 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Auto key card"? Looks like one of those no-touch door opener tools to me.    Attached File |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:19:18 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the documents state that one of the guys Matt Hoover owned a store called Coloma Resale. Coloma Resale was an FFL and held a SOT license. He made a video "Is this An ATF Trap And How Does It Work" which described how to order an auto key card and described how to cut the lighting link from the auto key card and install it into an AR-15 style rifle, thus converting the AR-15 style rifle into a machine gun. Ok, there are numerous videos where he is talking about how to make illegal machine guns, untraceable guns, and his auto key cards. All while he is holding an SOT license. If you haven't read the charging documents, they have been following this guy for awhile. The fact he held an SOT is likely the catalyst to this shit. I don't agree with the "cards are machine guns" but if you hold an FFL+SOT you don't do shit like this. Arrest them too... See how stupid that is? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:25:22 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen videos on YouTube of "How it Works" when they were doing machine guns on the History Channel. Arrest them too... See how stupid that is? It's not that he made a video... it's that he made the video(s), AND was getting paid by the guy selling them.... If he had just made the video and not gotten paid for it, he's probably be a free man right now |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:32:18 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt it. Even if they lose the gun things it sounds like he is dead to rights on the banking stuff. So he'll have to take a deal or almost surely be found guilty in court. Ah, so they're alcohol tobacco and finance now. "Structuring" is bullshit. Using your money isn't a crime. The government isn't entitled to your money. You seem to disagree tho. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:38:50 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryThat's going to be an interesting one... you require a photo ID to purchase a firearm but the Amish don't allow photos... |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:39:28 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guy did nothing wrong morally or according to the Constitution. The people, like you, who support these unamerican laws and their enforcement are worse than "dumb". "Well yeah, there's nothing wrong with it, but a bunch of dudes wrote it on paper, so we have no choice but to put the screws to him!" 
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:58:34 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a reason the feds didn't appealed the case to a higher court.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From the case above: In sum, since enactment of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o), the Secretary has refused to accept any tax payments to make or transfer a machinegun made after May 19, 1986, to approve any such making or transfer, or to register any such machinegun. As applied to machineguns made and possessed after May 19, 1986, the registration and other requirements of the National Firearms Act, Chapter 53 of the Internal Revenue Code, no longer serve any revenue purpose, and are impliedly repealed or are unconstitutional. Accordingly, Counts 1(a) and (b), 2, and 3 of the superseding indictment are DISMISSED. That sure seems to say in plain English that the 1986 Hughes Amendment made the NFA unconstitutional as applied to machine guns. Has another case since then overturned this finding? If not, why aren't Palmetto and others making $800 M-4's? There's a reason the feds didn't appealed the case to a higher court. Rather interesting. Would be interesting if someone chased this argument further up the latter or began applying en masse. But that would require mass disobedience as well. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 9:59:58 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, so they're alcohol tobacco and finance now. "Structuring" is bullshit. Using your money isn't a crime. The government isn't entitled to your money. You seem to disagree tho. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I doubt it. Even if they lose the gun things it sounds like he is dead to rights on the banking stuff. So he'll have to take a deal or almost surely be found guilty in court. Ah, so they're alcohol tobacco and finance now. "Structuring" is bullshit. Using your money isn't a crime. The government isn't entitled to your money. You seem to disagree tho. Where did I ever suggest I support or agree with the law ? I don't make or enforce it I am just saying he is screwed. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:14:32 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100% agree NFA needs to go away along with the Hughes act from 86! But unfortunately it is still in place. Hell I still want to do mail order firearms! Oh look everybody. The FED fits in with us now. 
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:16:36 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But enquiring minds want to know... how many people would you turn in? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't support these laws, but I also don't actively disobey them. I am just unwilling to break the law or push up to the line, and thus go to jail, even if it is morally and constitutionally acceptable. But enquiring minds want to know... how many people would you turn in? He'd turn in his family, neighbors, co-workers, strangers he just met.. basically anyone. His posts make that clear. Then he'd probably come here and brag about it. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:27:20 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You go be brave and post it up on the internet! Maybe you are a glowie for trying to goad people into breaking laws? Can the internet be a fed? https://media1.giphy.com/media/7v735rSZA1Szm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47ox7yjsrmebgoiep1lp87fm45uevdmplqcjsabnwe&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g Quote HistoryQuoted: You go be brave and post it up on the internet! Maybe you are a glowie for trying to goad people into breaking laws? Can the internet be a fed? https://media1.giphy.com/media/7v735rSZA1Szm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47ox7yjsrmebgoiep1lp87fm45uevdmplqcjsabnwe&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g Quoted: Ahh yes the internet spirit warrior has arisen! Please show us how many laws you break in order to show how masculine you are! You break those laws! https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUySTVQyBQfC5ZjdC0/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47vwo2wzeeu0yo1p4vx01vuoy9luskonp8j9j3kylb&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g CoC #4 anyone? |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:29:48 PM EST
[#16]
Its Gunshop Fred Durst. Not YouTube Fred Durst. Get it right.
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:38:56 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a photographic memory... Now my brain is a machine gun.  Dr Emmett Brown - Great Scott! |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:45:09 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CoC #4 anyone? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You go be brave and post it up on the internet! Maybe you are a glowie for trying to goad people into breaking laws? Can the internet be a fed? https://media1.giphy.com/media/7v735rSZA1Szm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47ox7yjsrmebgoiep1lp87fm45uevdmplqcjsabnwe&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g Quoted: Ahh yes the internet spirit warrior has arisen! Please show us how many laws you break in order to show how masculine you are! You break those laws! https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUySTVQyBQfC5ZjdC0/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47vwo2wzeeu0yo1p4vx01vuoy9luskonp8j9j3kylb&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g CoC #4 anyone? Special agents get a pass. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:52:36 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: <<snip>> You know the irony of that is that there is at least one very active member on this board who threw up a hail mary and as a non FFL, non SOT he submitted a Form 1 for making and registering a machinegun (AR15 to full auto) to the ATF and the ATF actually approved it. He got the stamp back and everything. However, shortly thereafter, they realized what they did and sent him a demand letter, threatening legal action and enforcement if he did not turn it over to them and surrender it. I believe he did so through his lawyer. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 10:57:23 PM EST
[#20]
This is like doing the gun gesture with your thumb and pointer finger, is a firearm.
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Posted: 1/27/2022 11:15:37 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know the irony of that is that there is at least one very active member on this board who threw up a hail mary and as a non FFL, non SOT he submitted a Form 1 for making and registering a machinegun (AR15 to full auto) to the ATF and the ATF actually approved it. He got the stamp back and everything. However, shortly thereafter, they realized what they did and sent him a demand letter, threatening legal action and enforcement if he did not turn it over to them and surrender it. I believe he did so through his lawyer. Yes, and there was another such stamp approved and issued in PA. In both cases the courts said "OMG MACHINEGUNS!" and backed the ATF. Just one more proof that the rule of law is dead in this country. Read all about it here: Hollis v Lynch et. al. |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 11:17:08 PM EST
[#22]
Somebody step up and post that pic with a ruler or something for dimensions :D
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Posted: 1/27/2022 11:45:26 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its a drawing on a piece of metal. What a bunch of fags. As the attorney for the defense, that’d be my opening statement... |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 11:46:03 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did I ever suggest I support or agree with the law ? I don't make or enforce it I am just saying he is screwed. Why is he screwed? He still has 3+ months to file for 2021 |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 11:47:14 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As the attorney for the defense, that’d be my opening statement... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Its a drawing on a piece of metal. What a bunch of fags. As the attorney for the defense, that’d be my opening statement... Hand a copy of the drawing to the judge and all the jurors, and then promptly demand that they be arrested for possession of an unregistered machine gun. 
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Posted: 1/27/2022 11:49:51 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is he screwed? He still has 3+ months to file for 2021 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where did I ever suggest I support or agree with the law ? I don't make or enforce it I am just saying he is screwed. Why is he screwed? He still has 3+ months to file for 2021 File what ? The banks file the report he appears to be making his withdrawals under the limit so they wouldn't. A stupid law, but he appears to have broke it. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 12:09:09 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arguably I'm a criminal because I have the photo of the keycard saved on my computer, since drawings of machine guns are illegal now. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. I'd like to be in that court room. I bet there would be some good arguments against. Ask the prosecutor to do a test fire with some live ammunition with just that piece of metal. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 12:25:41 AM EST
[#28]
Wow, what the heck.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 12:35:38 AM EST
[#29]
Can we make a sticker of it and put it on the atf's booth?
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Posted: 1/28/2022 12:38:37 AM EST
[#30]
Is this why the thread looking for autocad designers to work on a FRT project got shitcanned?
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:03:55 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we make a sticker of it and put it on the atf's booth? This would be quite an effective form of civil disobedience imo |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:15:38 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He'd turn in his family, neighbors, co-workers, strangers he just met.. basically anyone. His posts make that clear. Then he'd probably come here and brag about it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't support these laws, but I also don't actively disobey them. I am just unwilling to break the law or push up to the line, and thus go to jail, even if it is morally and constitutionally acceptable. But enquiring minds want to know... how many people would you turn in? He'd turn in his family, neighbors, co-workers, strangers he just met.. basically anyone. His posts make that clear. Then he'd probably come here and brag about it. There's probably a bounty for doing so... |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:35:07 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know the IRS only started accepting 2021 tax forms a few days ago, right? And they aren’t late until after 15 Apr 2022, right? Oh wait, you don’t give a shit. You want to paint him as an idiot criminal because that’s what you do to gun owners. Right? Quote HistoryQuoted: You know the IRS only started accepting 2021 tax forms a few days ago, right? And they aren’t late until after 15 Apr 2022, right? Oh wait, you don’t give a shit. You want to paint him as an idiot criminal because that’s what you do to gun owners. Right? Buddy, this has nothing to do with 2021 tax season. By Federal law, banks must fill out reporting paperwork for transactions >= $10k, and it's a crime to intentionally structure payments to try and get around that limit. Doesn't matter what tax year it is; the crime happens that instant you structure the payments. What the fuck are you talking about with this "what you do to gun owners" shit? I'm not the only one who pointed out how dumb this was, but I'm the only one I see you calling out on this page. Do you have a problem? I don't have any problem with you, but it sure the fuck sounds like you're trying to stir shit up. Have you read CoC #6? Attacking or insulting a member in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have the right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner. This rule also includes posting disparaging remarks about a member's family. Again, I have no problem with you, so I have no clue why you're coming out swinging and trying to fuck with me.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 6:22:01 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this why the thread looking for autocad designers to work on a FRT project got shitcanned? Intensified, my desire to know more has. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 6:25:13 AM EST
[#35]
Triggers, diversified machine letter, and this…
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Posted: 1/28/2022 6:50:52 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “I’m a Law Abiding Citizen” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: COC There are far too many obedient and submissive Americans in this country, which is precisely why it is going to shit. “I’m a Law Abiding Citizen” 
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Posted: 1/28/2022 6:51:05 AM EST
[#37]
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Posted: 1/28/2022 6:58:15 AM EST
[#38]
Hope he has a great legal team and they go after the .gov hard.
He, RBT and others are basically thumbing their noses at the ATF bullies. They got the reaction, now put them on the ground hard. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 7:18:58 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buddy, this has nothing to do with 2021 tax season. By Federal law, banks must fill out reporting paperwork for transactions >= $10k, and it's a crime to intentionally structure payments to try and get around that limit. Doesn't matter what tax year it is; the crime happens that instant you structure the payments. What the fuck are you talking about with this "what you do to gun owners" shit? I'm not the only one who pointed out how dumb this was, but I'm the only one I see you calling out on this page. Do you have a problem? I don't have any problem with you, but it sure the fuck sounds like you're trying to stir shit up. Have you read CoC #6? Again, I have no problem with you, so I have no clue why you're coming out swinging and trying to fuck with me. I’m well aware of CoC #6. When you have a pattern of mocking gun owners and conservatives over the last 3+ years, did you think nobody noticed? However, pointing out your schtick does not violate #6. No insults were made. I’m just making you aware that you are being obvious. Banks only have to report on cash transactions. A wired amount shouldn’t be subject to the same penalties, as the source is identified. Perhaps the guy sending the money was avoiding bank fees that way? Who knows. We’ll see in court. But to receive a wired transaction shouldn’t be illegal. I haven’t read that it was cash from any source. It is a Hail Mary that the feds are using to make this guy spend more on a lawyer. If he claims it on his 1099, it’s not an IRS problem. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 7:40:36 AM EST
[#40]
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Posted: 1/28/2022 7:53:23 AM EST
[#41]
500 Chris Dorners. 100 per state. Is that what the Feds are asking for? Inquiring minds want to know because that is a very strange request…
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Posted: 1/28/2022 7:54:06 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does that case decision mean we can, by law, manufacture machine guns again and the FJB browncoats can't do squat about it? @HenryKnoxFineBooks hey hey hey, BrownSHIRTS. Browncoats are Firefly fans |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 7:57:57 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arguably I'm a criminal because I have the photo of the keycard saved on my computer, since drawings of machine guns are illegal now. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Drawings of a machine gun part. Yes I know the ATF categorizes machine gun parts like shoestrings as machine guns. I'm just pointing out how even more absurd it is. Anybody with a piece of metal, a printed piece of paper, and a Dremel is a potential criminal. Arguably I'm a criminal because I have the photo of the keycard saved on my computer, since drawings of machine guns are illegal now. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. They would gladly round up every member of this site, label us terrorists and toss us all in a jail. We own guns and think for ourselves...that means we are a danger to the current regime. But don’t be fooled, conservative politicians fee the same way, they just pretend to care about the 2A and its supporters because they need our vote. If they could guarantee a political victory without us they would strip us of our god given rights in a heart beat. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 8:06:38 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: File what ? The banks file the report he appears to be making his withdrawals under the limit so they wouldn't. A stupid law, but he appears to have broke it. It's illegal to withdraw certain amounts of your own money? Or is it about tax avoidance? |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 8:11:31 AM EST
[#45]
These charges are really ‘out there’ and almost seem to be an attempt to get Matt to plea and turn state’s witness on something.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 8:11:58 AM EST
[#46]
Yeah ,it's BS but WTF did he think would happen.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 8:15:03 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: File what ? The banks file the report he appears to be making his withdrawals under the limit so they wouldn't. A stupid law, but he appears to have broke it. You have to ask, "WHY is it a crime"? Who is the injured party? If the money had already been taxed, why is withdrawing it to pay for legal goods suddenly illegal if its over a certain amount or if its just under it multiple days in a row? IIRC its "War on Drugs" BS to try to monitor for illegal activity, similar to the "civil forfeiture" laws that have been used to rob people of large amounts of cash going to do legal business like buying a car, BY law enforcement. I don't know the exact wording of the law, but I'd be looking for an "in relation clause" in it, similar to the "Failure to identify" statute in Texas. In Texas, unless you are being arrested or detained for an articulable crime, or as a witness to a crime, the police have no authority to demand you identify yourself or present identification [a law that has been bent and broken many many times BTW]. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 8:18:36 AM EST
[#48]
oops wrong quote
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Posted: 1/28/2022 8:19:23 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 500 Chris Dorners. 100 per state. Is that what the Feds are asking for? Inquiring minds want to know because that is a very strange request… either you meant 5000 CDs or 10 per state, I think... Math hard, brain hurt now...too early, need more cofefe |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 8:21:31 AM EST
[#50]
I do wish folks would understand that anytime you see this silliness and level of WTF by way of actions from Just-Us and it's stepchild agency (Homeland Security Act Just-Us adopted ATF); There is always a reason and a goal. IT NEVER HAPPENS IN A VACUUM.
Reason in the Key Card and FRT triggers is simple. They are both very public and very constitutional in their actions and beliefs. In the eyes of a certain stepchild agency who is tasked with hammering down nails, well like good little bureaucrats they will see folks like that as nails sticking up begging to be hammered on. Just-Us was tasked with doing "something" on guns to give the pResident a win. The most likely goal is not to convict them. Not even. The idea is to cause economic harm by having to navigate Just-Us. Going to trial is a 1/4 million dollar minimum win lose or draw. The public defender route almost never works out. The goal is to publicly shame and to economically break the company or individual. It is a common tactic that has been documented time and again. Not this case but pay attention to the calm discussion of the ATF goals... I am willing to bet there are emails just like these for the two folks mentioned above... THE PROCESS IS THE PUNISHMENT AND IS DESIGNED TO BANKRUPT YOU.  Attached File Attached File |
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