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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:29:33 AM EDT
[#1]
If a judge and or jury say that drawing on metal do not constitute a machine gun, then the whole of the government’s case falls apart and will be dismissed.
All of the things that fed claims, Hoover and Ervin did we’re not illegal as individual actions. At best tax related charges if they were not claiming income. The idea that Hoover was avoiding 10K, as a conspiracy, is ridiculous. He was being paid and his pay was under 10K for his services. Now if he didn’t claim all the payments, he may be in violation of some failure to report charge, but not conspiracy. The real issue here is the Government has a completely weak case against Ervin. They need to prove that a drawing on metal constitutes a machine gun and that in and of itself is breaking the law. Since that is pretty ridiculous as a stand alone charge they are attempting to make a conspiratorial plot around the to bolster a weak case. Fed doing Fed things because they have a bottomless pit of $ and don’t liked to be mocked. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:30:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here to help! I'm still not sure why everyone gets all up in arms when you post an actual comment. Maybe next time we all just post the same things like FTATF! or Those scoundrels are treacherous watch out ye skellywags! Since we are all about throwing around the Coward term.. https://media1.giphy.com/media/3zLyCNCMMPwxq/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47qwqjr6tgsrj5cyuad5wab37rr1twkinyql3oqt3a&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g Join date, post count, and the thread type which aroused a massive post dump in one day. Along with sudden use of edgy memes. He might like a screen name change.tritium would be a good fit. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:31:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's illegal to withdraw certain amounts of your own money? Or is it about tax avoidance? It's about money laundering. Structuring is a commonly used money laundering tactic by breaking down larger amounts into smaller amounts to attempt to "fly under the radar" and prevent the reporting of said cash. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:39:16 AM EDT
[#4]
I double dog dare you to have it tattooed on your arm. Let the ATF confiscate that!
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:41:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are arguing that the card itself, a drawing, IS the machine gun. Even without cutting it out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The auto key card shit wont stick. Where they will get him is being in possession and transferring machine guns. 10 counts of that or whatever. They are arguing that the card itself, a drawing, IS the machine gun. Even without cutting it out. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:42:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's about money laundering. Structuring is a commonly used money laundering tactic by breaking down larger amounts into smaller amounts to attempt to "fly under the radar" and prevent the reporting of said cash. Money laundering is the practice of making money that was gained through criminal means, look as if it came from a legitimate business activity. Tax Avoidance is the practice of taking actions to minimize your tax payments within the law. The media calls these ‘loopholes’. But the avoidance is legal. Failure to report income. Self explanatory and breaking the law. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:50:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, and there was another such stamp approved and issued in PA. In both cases the courts said "OMG MACHINEGUNS!" and backed the ATF. Just one more proof that the rule of law is dead in this country. Read all about it here: Hollis v Lynch et. al. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:51:17 AM EDT
[#8]
There are a lot of misconceptions about structuring and Currency Transaction Reports. There are millions and millions of CTR's filed in the FINCEN data base. No one is browsing through them, they get looked at when the person gets looked at. Just withdraw the $45,000 and be done with it.
It's not just the IRS that has access to CTR's, also law enforcement agencies. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:52:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I double dog dare you to have it tattooed on your arm. Let the ATF confiscate that! "Long sleeve or short sleeve?" |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:57:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just-Us was tasked with doing "something" on guns to give the pResident a win. All federal agencies were also ordered to make available ALL of their databases with a similar aim... expect a lot more data mining to justify govt overreach. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 9:59:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's illegal to withdraw certain amounts of your own money? Or is it about tax avoidance? How would he be avoiding tax? |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:03:09 AM EDT
[#12]
Why isn’t the GFM link for CRS Firearms in the OP????
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:09:47 AM EDT
[#13]
That sucks. I should be able to buy that card with the rest of the gift cards. Hopefully he prevails in court. Can we donate to a legal support fund?
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:11:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Money laundering is the practice of making money that was gained through criminal means, look as if it came from a legitimate business activity. Tax Avoidance is the practice of taking actions to minimize your tax payments within the law. The media calls these 'loopholes'. But the avoidance is legal. Failure to report income. Self explanatory and breaking the law. To clarify, my intention was not to say that they are laundering money. Just stating that structuring is a commonly used money laundering tactic. Tax evasion purposes is another reason why people structure. Also terrorist financing. They could literally spin it in any direction they want for the purpose in count of make the charges stick. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:12:18 AM EDT
[#15]
You may beat the charge but you won’t beat the ride and harassment.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:48:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Violation of civil rights under color of law is a thing. I hopes he goes after the arresting agents and doj lawyers that filed the case.
1st amendment bitches! I remember when this started, agents showed up at his house and tried to get him to lie to them about stupid shit. He refused to speak with them and they were shouting questions like, do you own a drill. His answer was, I'm a home owner, of course I own a drill. Guess they were hoping he would say no. This is how our alphabet agencies work. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:49:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To clarify, my intention was not to say that they are laundering money. Just stating that structuring is a commonly used money laundering tactic. Tax evasion purposes is another reason why people structure. Also terrorist financing. They could literally spin it in any direction they want for the purpose in count of make the charges stick. To clarity. I wasn’t trying to rail on you. In this instance it’s a HUGE STRETCH. At the core of this case is the charge that printed drawings on metal constitutes a machine gun. Since on its face, that claim is absurd, the ATF needs to make a case that Ervin’s and Hoover’s real intention was to sell machine guns. Because Ervin had the cards made and paid Hoover to promote the sales and provide information on how and illegal machine gun could be made using a metal card with drawings on it. They are saying there was a conspiracy to manufacture and sell something illegal by combining perfectly legal acts together. The reason was to make money off the illegal activity. They are doing this because the only real thing they are claiming is illegal is printing drawings on a piece of metal. The rest is fluff in an attempt prop up an absurd charge. Since we can say a plastic stock is actually a trigger and fires multiple rounds with a single stock, I guess anything is possible with the right judge and activism. The rule of law is truly staring to become dead and clearly favors those in charge. Once the public no longer respects the rule of law, the population will become ungovernable. This is already occurring in certain states in because of ideology. The ungovernable in these state are a certain demographic and the rest of the population see the elephant in the room. At a certain point the rest of the population will get very tired of the certain demographic and those they elect who allow it. How it is stopped can be debated. But make no mistake that at a certain point the rest of the population will break. (sorry for rant) |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:57:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Someone should etch a grenade launcher onto a block of aluminum and sell them.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 10:59:29 AM EDT
[#19]
The ATF is out of control.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:04:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why isn’t the GFM link for CRS Firearms in the OP???? 1, I gotta sleep sometime, and 2, I’m a little worried about them using GoFundMe since GFM is notoriously anti-freedom and will absolutely cancel if this gets big enough. See: Rittenhouse |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:09:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Control. The AFT has none.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:10:58 AM EDT
[#22]
“I’ll know it when I see it”
-ATF |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:27:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1, I gotta sleep sometime, and 2, I’m a little worried about them using GoFundMe since GFM is notoriously anti-freedom and will absolutely cancel if this gets big enough. See: Rittenhouse Wasn’t meant as a slight against you. Sorry if that’s how it was construed. Completely understand. I am happy to see they’re 60% of the way towards their goal. Although I don’t think 100k is going to be enough. My overall point is that this is that this is arguably the largest firearms community out there. And if we can’t rally behind someone being curb stomped by tyranny, we might as well kiss our rights goodbye. There’s often a tendency to eat our own. Maybe out of fear. Maybe simply because we don’t agree or like the other person all that much. But our investment in fighting for our rights should supersede all of that. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:31:25 AM EDT
[#24]
The citizenry have an obligation to bring the out of control ATF under control.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:32:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Thank heavens there are organizations like the NRA out there designed to help individuals being mistreated by the government. What would we do without them?
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:35:28 AM EDT
[#26]
I'm just here for the shitshow.
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:38:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m well aware of CoC #6. When you have a pattern of mocking gun owners and conservatives over the last 3+ years, did you think nobody noticed? Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m well aware of CoC #6. When you have a pattern of mocking gun owners and conservatives over the last 3+ years, did you think nobody noticed? I do not have a pattern of mocking gun owners and conservatives. I own more guns than most, and I fall on the right side of the political spectrum--If you're truly stalking my post history as you say, then you you've seen where I've said plenty of times on this website that I vote straight ticket Republican (and twice voted for Trump). However, pointing out your schtick does not violate #6. No insults were made. I’m just making you aware that you are being obvious. Doesn't have to be an insult to violate CoC #6. It was an attack. What you wrote was an attack on me in an attempt to provoke a negative response: "Oh wait, you don’t give a shit. You want to paint him as an idiot criminal because that’s what you do to gun owners" Banks only have to report on cash transactions. A wired amount shouldn’t be subject to the same penalties, as the source is identified. Perhaps the guy sending the money was avoiding bank fees that way? Who knows. We’ll see in court. But to receive a wired transaction shouldn’t be illegal. I haven’t read that it was cash from any source. It is a Hail Mary that the feds are using to make this guy spend more on a lawyer. If he claims it on his 1099, it’s not an IRS problem. They were cash transactions. Page 14 of the court filing linked on the first page of this thread. Six separate times in a nine-day period, dude pulled out $9,000.00 cash. All the details are in the document, should you care to inform yourself. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:40:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: File what ? The banks file the report he appears to be making his withdrawals under the limit so they wouldn't. A stupid law, but he appears to have broke it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where did I ever suggest I support or agree with the law ? I don't make or enforce it I am just saying he is screwed. Why is he screwed? He still has 3+ months to file for 2021 File what ? The banks file the report he appears to be making his withdrawals under the limit so they wouldn't. A stupid law, but he appears to have broke it. Might make a big difference in how much is coming in though. If you get 8K or 9K coming and and sweep it out to another account or just to cash that would be completely different (at least IMO) from getting 18K and taking out 9K twice. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:46:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The process is the punishment. They don't have to actually prove any of the charges to utterly ruin someone. The only way I see to fight this is with organized legal defense like antifa uses. Lawyers and bail funds set up waiting to defend whoever gets pulled into the system. You are 100 percent correct - and anyone that stands up, will just get the ol' Randy Weaver treatment by the ATF as further punishment. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 11:49:40 AM EDT
[#30]
DEFUND THE ATF!!!
Or the AFT, you know, the thing! |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:18:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How long have you been with the agency? It is a drawing on a piece of metal. It isn't a manufactured anything. Does he include instructions? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again, its the fact he owns a company that has an FFL+SOT that is an issue. The fact he didn't manufacture them is worse and proves further his conspiracy charge. He is an SOT holder that knows what a lighting link is, see youtube video evidence. He paid someone else to make the item because he knows as an FFL+SOT holder he legally can't manufacture them without proper documentation. He then sells the items and provides instructions on how to convert the item into an illegal NFA item. Furthermore, picking locks is not regulated by the National Firearms act. If you manufactured explosives c4 for instance, and sold each part needed to manufacture an C4 on a website. Then made a videos for youtube on how to mix the parts to create a regulated explosive, you too would be charged. How long have you been with the agency? It is a drawing on a piece of metal. It isn't a manufactured anything. Does he include instructions? |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:23:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hey hey hey, BrownSHIRTS. Browncoats are Firefly fans Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So does that case decision mean we can, by law, manufacture machine guns again and the FJB browncoats can't do squat about it? @HenryKnoxFineBooks hey hey hey, BrownSHIRTS. Browncoats are Firefly fans A thousand pardons to Firefly fans. I was a bit punchy last night. I meant brownshirts. Also, Americans really need to nullify all these stupid, ineffective and unconstitutional firearm and possession laws. Jury duty is important. It is probably the only way we will change the laws, since the politicians and judges are mostly power-hungry and corrupt big gov types. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:29:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck structured withdrawals while we are at it too. Too many people just love them some government in people's lives. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Retard structured withdrawals. He'll plead to something and ATF will get a conviction.  Fuck structured withdrawals while we are at it too. Too many people just love them some government in people's lives. Agreed. It shouldn't NEED to exist... |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:34:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what should i do with my fingers and belt loops? "Put your hands up, pull your pants down, spread your cheeks!" |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:40:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: either you meant 5000 CDs or 10 per state, I think... Math hard, brain hurt now...too early, need more cofefe Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 500 Chris Dorners. 100 per state. Is that what the Feds are asking for? Inquiring minds want to know because that is a very strange request… either you meant 5000 CDs or 10 per state, I think... Math hard, brain hurt now...too early, need more cofefe Ha! I’m going to leave it. When I wrote it, it felt weird but I didn’t think it was because of the numbers, I thought it was the text. 
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:47:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's about money laundering. Structuring is a commonly used money laundering tactic by breaking down larger amounts into smaller amounts to attempt to "fly under the radar" and prevent the reporting of said cash. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's illegal to withdraw certain amounts of your own money? Or is it about tax avoidance? It's about money laundering. Structuring is a commonly used money laundering tactic by breaking down larger amounts into smaller amounts to attempt to "fly under the radar" and prevent the reporting of said cash. So if I withdraw 9k from my account 3 days in a row I just broke a law? 
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Posted: 1/28/2022 1:47:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryMaterial thickness and width? Asking for a friend... 
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:01:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Google lightning link drawings.  
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:03:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn’t meant as a slight against you. Sorry if that’s how it was construed. Completely understand. I am happy to see they’re 60% of the way towards their goal. Although I don’t think 100k is going to be enough. My overall point is that this is that this is arguably the largest firearms community out there. And if we can’t rally behind someone being curb stomped by tyranny, we might as well kiss our rights goodbye. There’s often a tendency to eat our own. Maybe out of fear. Maybe simply because we don’t agree or like the other person all that much. But our investment in fighting for our rights should supersede all of that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1, I gotta sleep sometime, and 2, I’m a little worried about them using GoFundMe since GFM is notoriously anti-freedom and will absolutely cancel if this gets big enough. See: Rittenhouse Wasn’t meant as a slight against you. Sorry if that’s how it was construed. Completely understand. I am happy to see they’re 60% of the way towards their goal. Although I don’t think 100k is going to be enough. My overall point is that this is that this is arguably the largest firearms community out there. And if we can’t rally behind someone being curb stomped by tyranny, we might as well kiss our rights goodbye. There’s often a tendency to eat our own. Maybe out of fear. Maybe simply because we don’t agree or like the other person all that much. But our investment in fighting for our rights should supersede all of that. No worries my man, GFM link added to OP |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:09:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if I withdraw 9k from my account 3 days in a row I just broke a law? Probably depends why you withdrew $9k each day... Day 1 funtime at the casino in Vegas - $9k Day 2 huge wedding with new stripper GF in Vegas - $9k Day 3 seeing attorney in Vegas about the bad decision on day 2 - $9k |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:15:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were cash transactions. Page 14 of the court filing linked on the first page of this thread. Six separate times in a nine-day period, dude pulled out $9,000.00 cash. All the details are in the document, should you care to inform yourself. Does it say where the $9k went? Some places give a discount for cash... |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:17:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if I withdraw 9k from my account 3 days in a row I just broke a law? no but you arose suspicion |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:26:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arguably I'm a criminal because I have the photo of the keycard saved on my computer, since drawings of machine guns are illegal now. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Is that drawing on the physical material to be cut into the part? This all relates pretty simply to constructive possession. The ATF said years ago, you can't even put a fucking etching on a lower reciever for the 3rd hole.... so why some dumbass would go do the same thing with a LL is beyond me. The NFA should be repealed, but there is a reality here whether we agree with it or not. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:38:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if I withdraw 9k from my account 3 days in a row I just broke a law? If you are doing it to evade discovery of another illegal activity, yes. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:39:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CoC #4 anyone? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You go be brave and post it up on the internet! Maybe you are a glowie for trying to goad people into breaking laws? Can the internet be a fed? https://media1.giphy.com/media/7v735rSZA1Szm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47ox7yjsrmebgoiep1lp87fm45uevdmplqcjsabnwe&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g Quoted: Ahh yes the internet spirit warrior has arisen! Please show us how many laws you break in order to show how masculine you are! You break those laws! https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUySTVQyBQfC5ZjdC0/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47vwo2wzeeu0yo1p4vx01vuoy9luskonp8j9j3kylb&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g CoC #4 anyone? correct, but the "MOD" a term used loosely only punked the person that called him what he is. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:45:55 PM EDT
[#46]
I was thinking. If I were to get an Autokeycard tattoo would I be a machine gun?
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Posted: 1/28/2022 2:55:08 PM EDT
[#47]
I remember an expression from the military:
"Execute one, educate a thousand." That's clearly what they are doing here - making an example of high-profile individuals. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 3:03:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the federal government is out of control. The ATF's actions are just another example. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 3:08:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that drawing on the physical material to be cut into the part? This all relates pretty simply to constructive possession. The ATF said years ago, you can't even put a fucking etching on a lower reciever for the 3rd hole.... so why some dumbass would go do the same thing with a LL is beyond me. The NFA should be repealed, but there is a reality here whether we agree with it or not. Is there a law... or is it an AFT rule... You can blame Chevron for a lot of the problems today. |
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Posted: 1/28/2022 3:49:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a law... or is it an AFT rule... You can blame Chevron for a lot of the problems today. NFA constructive Posession is LAW, a rule/procedure would clarify or interpret the law, and the 3rd hole opinion was lettered by the ATF to an individual.. Then you have some solid court cases like you mentioned that have empowered the ATF. I said it before, these guys are fooking morons for what they did. They should have sold a plastic stencils or stickers, and offered the sheet metal seperate. ATF has not and wouldn't touch the concept of making basic information illegal, the law says "parts". |
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