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Posted: 10/12/2017 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Moms being too involved has been a problem, IME. They hold back the boys from activities because they don't think they are safe, they want it to be easier to get higher achievements through Eagle and to get merit badges, often don't want to fail the boys at boards when it's necessary, etc. Heavy mom involvement has not been positive for Scouting. Females can also be a distraction, can keep people behind for some outdoor activities, and it simply isn't appropriate to alter a programme tailored for turning boys into men so that it can accommodate females. There is no reason why females cannot just have their own separate organization. Why should we have to alter our programme, allow in immorality, feminize it, water it down, and detach it from its roots, which is what this whole push has entailed over the years (it isn't just limited to the girls in scouting issue by any means)? The onus should be on those pushing or okay with these changes to justify them. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 12:48:22 PM EDT
[#2]
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Can anyone thing of problems at jamboree's, camp outs and week long stays at camp ?....holy shit talking about unintended consequences !!! |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 12:50:12 PM EDT
[#3]
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When I was a Cub Scout nearly half a century ago, the Pack was run by fathers, and the Dens by mothers. All den leaders were "Den Mothers" also known as stay-at-home-moms until Webelos, when we transitioned to male adult leaders. Regarding World War II, I was not aware that there were female Scoutmasters during the war. I knew WWII-era Scouts and Scoutmasters, and the Scoutmasters were usually either very young (men who hadn't been drafted yet) or 4Fs or wounded vets who had been discharged. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can anyone come up with a good reason to not include females that doesn't include fear of transgenders or cooties? Half our den leaders in Cub scouts are moms. Regarding World War II, I was not aware that there were female Scoutmasters during the war. I knew WWII-era Scouts and Scoutmasters, and the Scoutmasters were usually either very young (men who hadn't been drafted yet) or 4Fs or wounded vets who had been discharged. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 12:58:03 PM EDT
[#4]
I wonder what Baden-Powell, Burnham, and Selous would say?
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:03:36 PM EDT
[#5]
If anyone is still following this thread the news story I saw this morning does not fit the email I received.
Parents who want their daughters to participate in Cub Scouts will have the opportunity to contact their Cub Scout Pack leadership to discuss whether the pack is a single gender or co-ed program. The decision to make a Pack co-ed must be approved by the chartered organization and the Pack’s volunteer leadership. The xxxxx Council will support the decision of the Pack leadership. I don't think the girls are getting in, at least not around here. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:13:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
show me where in the press release it says that females will be with the Boy Scout Troop on campouts, at summer camps, or at jamborees. However how will the BSA prevent female based Troops from attending BSA events (like summer camps or jamborees) without getting a massive discrimination lawsuit. They can't stop it. They can try to stagger camp attend dates (like this week is boys, next is girls) but that won't work for kids that go for several weeks. Things like jamborees, which are held for a single week won't have that option. Things *will* get interesting. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:16:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Campouts aren't the issue unless BSA (or some local troop takes it upon themselves) makes coed Troops. However how will the BSA prevent female based Troops from attending BSA events (like summer camps or jamborees) without getting a massive discrimination lawsuit. They can't stop it. They can try to stagger camp attend dates (like this week is boys, next is girls) but that won't work for kids that go for several weeks. Things like jamborees, which are held for a single week won't have that option. Things *will* get interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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show me where in the press release it says that females will be with the Boy Scout Troop on campouts, at summer camps, or at jamborees. However how will the BSA prevent female based Troops from attending BSA events (like summer camps or jamborees) without getting a massive discrimination lawsuit. They can't stop it. They can try to stagger camp attend dates (like this week is boys, next is girls) but that won't work for kids that go for several weeks. Things like jamborees, which are held for a single week won't have that option. Things *will* get interesting. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:17:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Founder
 
Turd of today's wisdom 
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:17:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder what Baden-Powell, Burnham, and Selous would say? 
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:19:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
show me where in the press release it says that females will be with the Boy Scout Troop on campouts, at summer camps, or at jamborees. 
The Libs / Progressives / Globalists are winning fellas. They divide and conquer like no one I've ever seen. Unless they're stopped somehow, pretty much all is lost in this country. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:25:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is not having boys and girls work side by side on Scout stuff. And despite the humorous comments, the problem is not boys and girls sneaking off to fuck during campouts. The problem is that in the USA of 2017 A.D., masculinity is under serious attack, and when you invite girls into Cub Scout Packs and Boy Scout Troops then you are inviting in a whole host of female-dominated SJW "equality" issues that exacerbates that attack. The biggest issues are these: 1. Moms have problems letting boys be boys. What men understand as "youthful exuberance," moms see as "chaos, out-of-control behavior, etc." Boys are active, boys like to be loud and run around, and most of all boys learn by trying, failing, trying, failing, trying, getting it right. That is what makes American culture so innovative and original. Females, by and large, tend to be more orderly and follow-the-manual-precisely. So bringing moms to help run meetings, having moms on campouts, etc. cuts down on the "let boys be boys" time. We're seeing this in government schools (as another poster mentioned above) and it is BAD for our society. 2. Standards WILL weaken, for two reasons. First, women generally are more about "did everyone feel included" than "did we get results." Once enough Little Suzies fall out of the Mile Swim test, their moms will petition to have it made into a Half-Mile Swim because "a mile is just too hard, it's not faaaaiiiiirrrrr." Woe unto the Scoutmaster who tells Suzie's Smother-Mother, "then go back to Girl Scouts. You knew it was a Mile Swim when you joined." Same with the 50-miler patch. Second, the "non-legacy families" that BSA is so desperate to recruit (these are families with no prior history in Scouting and thus no prioer experience with it) won't completely understand why some standards are what they are. So, with their "the customer is always right" mentality, they will start petitioning for change at some point. "Why does the Scout Law say 'reverent?' That's pushing religion on us. Change it!" Or, "Why doesn't the Scout Oath say anything about diversity, inclusivity, or social justice? Change it!" And BSA will, which will doom it to die. 3. Moms do not know how to teach boys to be men. They just don't. They don't understand what it is to be a man any more than men understand how it feels to menstruate or be pregnant. We are seeing the results of single moms raising boys in our society today, and it is BAD. Moms (especially today) treat boys like defective girls instead of letting them be boys. Bringing girls into Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts will ruin Scouting's good effects on boys. NOTE: Do not point at Venture Scouting as "well, it can be done successfully." Venture Scouting is completely different from Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting. They are older, they are focused on high adventure instead of rank and merit badge achievement, they have a very different mission. Cultural Marxism has successfully destroyed the “toxic masculinity” of the BSA. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 1:41:33 PM EDT
[#12]
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You think a male Scoutmaster is gonna tell some mom with a 'talk to the manager' haircut that her little precious can't go camping like the boys?  His rule for campouts is "No siblings unless they are also members of the Troop; no sisters or moms; non-Scouter dads are space-A." He has 100% parent and Troop committee support. Not surprisingly, this has encouraged many dads to join the Troop committee and/or become ASMs.
Besides, if there are no girls in Boy Scout Troops because they are off doing their own thing in their girls-only unit, why would mom have any basis to demand her daughter go? |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 2:04:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Females are the majority in the US. What has the left taught us about a majority co-opting a minorities' organizations and traditions and refusing them the right to have an isolated space where they can avoid undue influence of the majority?
I want to know. Either it's okay to do or it's not. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 2:15:22 PM EDT
[#14]
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BSA (for now at least) says no co-ed Troops. They obviously will revoke the charter of local Troops that become co-ed because that is operating waaaay outside what BSA considers permissible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
BSA (for now at least) says no co-ed Troops. They obviously will revoke the charter of local Troops that become co-ed because that is operating waaaay outside what BSA considers permissible. Yes, it will require more adult supervision for jamborees, and more logistical coordination for summer camp attend dates. Go ask the people that were in Explorers (Venturers I think they are called now) you can't watch them all - all the time. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 2:19:09 PM EDT
[#15]
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"Mentally awake and morally straight" I remember you from one of the previous threads.
Keep rooting for this crap all the while the institution goes into a death spiral if you wish. I've got the same stupid square knot as your picture, order of the arrow, etc. and couldn't disagree more with you. Many will be leaving or not continuing with their sons. I have tendered my resignation and I am done. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 2:32:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My kid's Scoutmaster has, many times. His rule for campouts is "No siblings unless they are also members of the Troop; no sisters or moms; non-Scouter dads are space-A." He has 100% parent and Troop committee support. Quote HistoryQuoted:
My kid's Scoutmaster has, many times. His rule for campouts is "No siblings unless they are also members of the Troop; no sisters or moms; non-Scouter dads are space-A." He has 100% parent and Troop committee support. "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders." page 2 in the Guide to Safe Scouting (Youth Protection - that online class EVERY ADULT has to take). You may discourage parents from camping if they are not registered leaders, but you cannot prohibit it. Ever hear of a troop doing paintball? Yep a prohibited activity, but many troops still do it. Shoot pistols or centerfire rifles at a Boy Scout activity? Prohibited unless you're a Venture or Sea Scout. Again many troops still do it (as several here have testified). Have their charters been revoked? Besides, if there are no girls in Boy Scout Troops because they are off doing their own thing in their girls-only unit, why would mom have any basis to demand her daughter go? |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 2:41:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Inb4 you can’t use “boy” and “girl” anymore
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Posted: 10/12/2017 2:42:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Example of letting boys be boys..
I earned my Eagle in 2005. During the 5 years before. We just had adult "Men" leaders. We literally cleaned house in competitions. We ran wild and never once thought about women. Mom's knew they weren't coming on a camping trip. Women were far and few inbetween. Scouts was cool and it was fun. I then left and went on to college and other things. I came back in 2015 to take over and put new life in the troop. I accepted the role of Scoutmaster. When I took over my troop. The mothers ran the show.. It was a shit fest. I swear it was like I was looking into shell of my old troop. We sucked at competitions. It became leader led and not boy led. Boys didnt want to camp or stay away from mommy because they were scared. They had maybe 5 active members. Within 3 months I had to troop do a 180. I laid the law down, either we change or I walk. Things changed quickly. I ended up with 29 active boys. Boy led, mom's were at arms length instead of chest. Camping at least once a month. Meetings were productive. Things were done! Boys were having fun and engaged. Parents were thanking me for getting their sons involved and active. Their entire outlook on life was improved. They were like new kids. I let the boys runs free to an extent. They handled and led themselves I just supervised and guided. I taught my other leaders to do the same. Boys are better engaged when men are teaching them to be men. Sorry but moms cant replicate that. They can try but nothing is like a men teaching boys. I stepped away in Aug because I knew this change was coming. I went back to a meeting this week and well yet again back to the old ways. The mommy's have taken over. They have maybe 4 boys in attendance the others quit or moved troops. I have had parents call and beg me to come back or start a new troop. Im out. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 2:55:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think a male Scoutmaster is gonna tell some mom with a 'talk to the manager' haircut that her little precious can't go camping like the boys? http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/181/managerhaircut.jpg The Libs / Progressives / Globalists are winning fellas. They divide and conquer like no one I've ever seen. Unless they're stopped somehow, pretty much all is lost in this country. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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show me where in the press release it says that females will be with the Boy Scout Troop on campouts, at summer camps, or at jamborees. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/181/managerhaircut.jpg The Libs / Progressives / Globalists are winning fellas. They divide and conquer like no one I've ever seen. Unless they're stopped somehow, pretty much all is lost in this country. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:02:10 PM EDT
[#20]
You guys keep saying troop instead of den. Why is that?
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:03:58 PM EDT
[#21]
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I'll tell you if you can explain to the others how male & female scouts can sleep in separate tents on a hike, and there are leaders to stop any fornication... Doing that which teenagers in mixed groups do when adults aren't around wouldn't have been much more difficult, had there been any girls. Letting moms anywhere near any of the activities would have killed my troop. As it was, some of the fathers wrecked it. (Unsurprisingly, it was the ones whose balls were stolen in their wives' sewing rooms who did it.) |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:05:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys keep saying troop instead of den. Why is that? |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:08:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Inb4 you can’t use “boy” and “girl” anymore 
What a Wacky Weird World of today... 
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:08:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Letting moms anywhere near any of the activities would have killed my troop. We had a single mom that wanted to come along on one of our winter camp outs. She was surprised when our annual winter hike was through swamps (yeah you're getting wet unless you brought hip waders). Don't like it don't do the hike. She stayed behind, her son went on the hike and had a ball. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:11:09 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm both furious and heartbroken about these developments.
I was a Boy Scout in the late '60s and it helped me transition from boy to young man. The sexes really are different and it's important for boys to do boy things and the same for girls. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:15:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sometimes we're discussing Cub Scouts Den/Pack; other times we're discussing Boy Scouts Patrol/Troop. The BSAs rule change effects both to a degree, with potential for more changes (especially to Troops) down the road. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You guys keep saying troop instead of den. Why is that? |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:16:19 PM EDT
[#27]
I've just skimmed page 1 so far, but as a woman, I want to say that as a girl the LAST thing I would have wanted was to be in a "Scout" group with a bunch of boys and girls. Hell no.
One of my fondest memories as a girl was going on a weekend trip with all the other girls to a hotel in San Diego. I wasn't a Girl Scout, I was a Camp Fire Girl (same thing, really). We swam in the pool and had lots of girly bonding moments. It wouldn't have been the same if there were boys in the group. The Girl Scouts aren't pleased about this, and I'm with them. It's bullshit. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:23:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading the actual release from BSA I'm not seeing where all these imagined issues are coming from. The mixed pack stuff is only in cub scouts and is optional. Then there will a girls only program like GSA but with less cookies and probably more camping. As someone who's been involved in Scouting for over 40 years it's easy to see where this is going. The arguments have been covered over the last few pages. Eventually it will lead to co-ed troops, sanctioned or not, it will happen. When it happens the BSA National org will balk for a bit, then acquiesce and allow it at the chartering organizations discretion. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:31:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of my fondest memories as a girl was going on a weekend trip with all the other girls to a hotel in San Diego. I wasn't a Girl Scout, I was a Camp Fire Girl (same thing, really). We swam in the pool and had lots of girly bonding moments. It wouldn't have been the same if there were boys in the group. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of my fondest memories as a girl was going on a weekend trip with all the other girls to a hotel in San Diego. I wasn't a Girl Scout, I was a Camp Fire Girl (same thing, really). We swam in the pool and had lots of girly bonding moments. It wouldn't have been the same if there were boys in the group. . The problem is there are girls that want to hike, camp, backpack, shoot, go canoeing etc and most GSA units aren't doing that kind of thing - but the Boy Scouts are. While you might not want to camp in the woods, there are girls that do and the GSA is not meeting their needs. The BSA thinks it can boost its ranks by adding these girls to the rolls. The Girl Scouts aren't pleased about this, and I'm with them. It's bullshit. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:41:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll tell you if you can explain to the others how male & female scouts can sleep in separate tents on a hike, and there are leaders to stop any fornication... Then there is the issue of the naked sauna..... |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:43:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Some great perspectives from experienced Scouters and Scouts. As a Cubscout, Boy Scout, Scouter and father of 2 Eagle Scouts and 2 Life Scouts, with experiences ranging from mountain camping to city park camping, organizer and trainer, I cannot see how the BSA National Council believes these changes are workable.
The alteration of membership guidelines over the past two years complicates troop management and organization so much that even the most conservative chartering partners are struggling to find value in what was once the most highly regarded youth movement on earth. Lawsuit upon lawsuit saps reserves of cash and will, like any war of attrition. I fully expect there will be a resurgence of the core movement, in a similar way the “Strenuous Life” movement began to resonate and grow in the early 20th century. I hope we will be wiser and better at identifying the wolves before they get into the fold. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:45:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You need to read the thread. As someone who's been involved in Scouting for over 40 years it's easy to see where this is going. The arguments have been covered over the last few pages. Eventually it will lead to co-ed troops, sanctioned or not, it will happen. When it happens the BSA National org will balk for a bit, then acquiesce and allow it at the chartering organizations discretion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Reading the actual release from BSA I'm not seeing where all these imagined issues are coming from. The mixed pack stuff is only in cub scouts and is optional. Then there will a girls only program like GSA but with less cookies and probably more camping. As someone who's been involved in Scouting for over 40 years it's easy to see where this is going. The arguments have been covered over the last few pages. Eventually it will lead to co-ed troops, sanctioned or not, it will happen. When it happens the BSA National org will balk for a bit, then acquiesce and allow it at the chartering organizations discretion. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 3:45:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do we call "Boy Scouts" that are girls? "Girl Scout" is taken.
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Posted: 10/12/2017 4:06:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading the actual release from BSA I'm not seeing where all these imagined issues are coming from. The mixed pack stuff is only in cub scouts and is optional. Then there will a girls only program like GSA but with less cookies and probably more camping. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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You guys keep saying troop instead of den. Why is that? |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 4:07:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then there is the issue of the naked sauna.....
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Posted: 10/12/2017 4:30:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this entire thread is just hysteria? In 1980 if you had said we'd have Female Scoutmasters by the end of the decade I'd have said you're nuts. In 1990 if you had said we'd have sanctioned gay Scoutmasters - we'd have sized you for a straight jacket. Stuff's been changing for a while. Give it 10 years then see where they are. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 8:09:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Girls can still choose to do that in the GSA. The problem is there are girls that want to hike, camp, backpack, shoot, go canoeing etc and most GSA units aren't doing that kind of thing - but the Boy Scouts are. While you might not want to camp in the woods, there are girls that do and the GSA is not meeting their needs. The BSA thinks it can boost its ranks by adding these girls to the rolls. Then maybe the GSA should stop with it's SJW bullshit and start getting back to it's roots. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One of my fondest memories as a girl was going on a weekend trip with all the other girls to a hotel in San Diego. I wasn't a Girl Scout, I was a Camp Fire Girl (same thing, really). We swam in the pool and had lots of girly bonding moments. It wouldn't have been the same if there were boys in the group. . The problem is there are girls that want to hike, camp, backpack, shoot, go canoeing etc and most GSA units aren't doing that kind of thing - but the Boy Scouts are. While you might not want to camp in the woods, there are girls that do and the GSA is not meeting their needs. The BSA thinks it can boost its ranks by adding these girls to the rolls. The Girl Scouts aren't pleased about this, and I'm with them. It's bullshit. |
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Posted: 10/12/2017 8:14:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever hear of a troop doing paintball? Yep a prohibited activity, but many troops still do it. You're off your meds if you think once this becomes mandated it won't be required. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 2:46:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that is because this is Arfcom, where reading is only for faggots and girls. Girls won't be mixed in with boys in the same troop (for now). Given the dwindling resources of the BSA (one of the reasons for this SJW push), where do girls go for summer camp? Are the BSA going to purchase new camps just for females? Are they going to use the same camps currently used, but divide the season? Economically (economics being the reason stated for this merger in the first place) it only makes sense to go coed. Looking at the BSA since the 80's and the path they have chosen, it can go no other way...save that very soon we will hear the announcement that "Boy" will have been removed from the Scouts of America. ...and people on here will applaud it, and then later go bitch in other threads about the weakening characteristics of American men. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 2:53:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this entire thread is just hysteria? |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 3:18:17 AM EDT
[#41]
LOL..you guys crack me up. The BSA died the day they let the gays in but most here were waving the rainbow flag like it was Old Glory.
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Posted: 10/13/2017 3:32:03 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL..you guys crack me up. The BSA died the day they let the gays in but most here were waving the rainbow flag like it was Old Glory. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 3:44:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
show me where in the press release it says that females will be with the Boy Scout Troop on campouts, at summer camps, or at jamborees. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 4:23:44 AM EDT
[#44]
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Strange...that's not the way I remember it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL..you guys crack me up. The BSA died the day they let the gays in but most here were waving the rainbow flag like it was Old Glory. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 5:41:07 AM EDT
[#45]
It took this for people to admit the BS are a joke?
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Posted: 10/13/2017 5:44:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Pity
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Posted: 10/13/2017 7:31:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Google World Jamboree 2019, it's in the USA this time, literally thousands of female scouts will be there, all from countries that aren't half as paranoid or pessimistic as your own. England fucked us, sent all the fun-loving, free-wheeling criminals to Australia, stuck our asses with the Puritans, and US culture has suffered ever since. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 7:33:48 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It took this for people to admit the BS are a joke? Letting girls in is not the problem, it's that the non-legacy families will come in with their own ideas about what Boy Scouts should be, and they will petition for change, and BSA will roll over and expose their bellies. This is the final nail in BSA's coffin, not today, but in about 10 years. My kid will make Eagle and then we are OUT. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 1:06:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Google World Jamboree 2019, it's in the USA this time, literally thousands of female scouts will be there, all from countries that aren't half as paranoid or pessimistic as your own. |
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