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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:10:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, this fits in an AR10 style chassis, not AR15 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can’t we just re-barrel & re-bolt existing stockpiles of M16’s & M4’s? No, this fits in an AR10 style chassis, not AR15 Oh. I learned something today. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:10:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it is not A proprietary system, that SIG will discontinue 2 years from now and make spare parts IMPOSSIBLE to find is NOT an improvement on a AR10 system that Larue, LMT, KAC and others have mastered. Have you ever tried tracking down spare KAC parts? Also, the design is built around higher cycle life parts. Spare Parts availability is also irrelevant on whether or not the rifle is superior. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:12:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryLOFL 
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:13:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They said the same thing with the ACR...and the SCAR....Sucker. And they have for decades. When I was coming of age the OICW was the new hot whizbang gadget that would be the new standard issue. And that’s before the ACR program, which was before the SPIW program. Lots of neat ideas that just didn’t pan out. If anything the biggest thing to come from the ACR program was the emphasis on optics vs irons as a standard sighting system, instead of any of the ammo developments. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:13:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Most gunfights to include ones on the battlefield are ......never mind OP is going to OP
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:14:07 PM EDT
[#6]
piston AR still gay tho
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:15:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They said the same thing with the ACR...and the SCAR....Sucker. Either it's ballistically superior or it isn't? Those platforms didn't address the shortcomings with the cartridges. 
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:17:00 PM EDT
[#8]
@narphenal
Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? 
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:18:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? The Gen 2 MCX Atlatl will be sweet. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:18:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it is not A proprietary system, that SIG will discontinue 2 years from now and make spare parts IMPOSSIBLE to find is NOT an improvement on a AR10 system that Larue, LMT, KAC and others have mastered. This. A proprietary system that runs proprietary ammo is a novelty, not a practical firearm |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:20:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Because they have a shitty warranty.
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:20:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:20:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can’t we just re-barrel & re-bolt existing stockpiles of M16’s & M4’s? You can with the TVNC 6.8, but not with SIG 277 FURY. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:20:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either it's ballistically superior or it isn't? Those platforms didn't address the shortcomings with the cartridges. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275845/DSC06103-2318042.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They said the same thing with the ACR...and the SCAR....Sucker. Either it's ballistically superior or it isn't? Those platforms didn't address the shortcomings with the cartridges. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275845/DSC06103-2318042.jpg We’ve never assessed any other calibers to try to overcome cartridge shortcomings? 
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:22:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. A proprietary system that runs proprietary ammo is a novelty, not a practical firearm Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No it is not A proprietary system, that SIG will discontinue 2 years from now and make spare parts IMPOSSIBLE to find is NOT an improvement on a AR10 system that Larue, LMT, KAC and others have mastered. This. A proprietary system that runs proprietary ammo is a novelty, not a practical firearm I think it’s definitely a gamble. If it sees some adoption I think it’ll be supported. If it gets dropped for adoption though I just can’t see Sig supporting such a niche caliber. Especially the bimetal casing versions of the cartridge which is where most of the magic happens. Given how few people would own it, the cartridge would wither on the vine in short order. It’s happened to countless cartridges, many of which are superior to the ammo that replaced them. It wouldn’t be the first, or the last. And I’m not even saying that because ‘Sig always abandons stuff’ or whatever, I think they’ve gotten a lot better about that as of late, it’s just the reality of the potential situation. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:22:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Would rather have 2 scars
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:25:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: piston AR still gay tho It’s not a piston AR though. Closer to an AR180 if anything. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:27:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s not a piston AR though. Closer to an AR180 if anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: piston AR still gay tho It’s not a piston AR though. Closer to an AR180 if anything. Oh then the OP is 100% right about it being superior. Nice. 
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:27:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you ever tried tracking down spare KAC parts? Also, the design is built around higher cycle life parts. Spare Parts availability is also irrelevant on whether or not the rifle is superior. Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:31:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Is there going to be a thread from you about how it breaks in two weeks?
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:34:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would rather have 2 scars I'll just take a pallet of M855A1. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:34:37 PM EDT
[#22]
of course you have one lol
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:39:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. I agree, but what criteria would it have to meet to be "proven" to you? I don't know exactly what my criteria would be, just generally curious what people think would suffice. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:45:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:45:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: The real question is, why haven't you accepted SIG Sauer USA as your lord and savior yet? Pepperidge Farms remembers...  Sig 556R Malfunctions |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:48:13 PM EDT
[#26]
I mean, I can get an AR for like 400 bucks though....or two for 800, and there is billions upon billions of replacement parts out in the wild, all built on the same spec.
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:50:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. Sig likes to refine their product lines, but I think the Spear is about where it needs to be. If they revise it, they’d be revising what I’d bet is already a great product so it’s not like buying this would leave someone put out. This is at its heart an MCX with all the lessons learned therein, and I have to think that since they submitted this for the NGSW (and seem to be taking a serious run at it) that they put their best foot forward for this. I think any teething issues would have mostly been worked out. Not that revising a product is bad. Sig is basically trying to evolve the MCX in a few years within a single company, what the entire gun industry did for the M16 in decades. So far they’ve been doing a pretty good job considering. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:52:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:56:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. These days it seems like every new firearm has a safety recall. Given how many new guns Sig has made, they’re probably batting better than average. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:57:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure they were running around $7K+. 
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:57:32 PM EDT
[#31]
My conspiracy theory is that this entire "Russian body armor" thing is a pretense to develop and anti-robot gun.
I think they're pre-emptively getting ready for a future battlefield full of lightly armored RC cars with small turrets. They asked "wat round 4 robot?" and this is what they came up with. Welcome to the future. [/tinfoil off] |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:58:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These days it seems like every new firearm has a safety recall. Given how many new guns Sig has made, they’re probably batting better than average. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. These days it seems like every new firearm has a safety recall. Given how many new guns Sig has made, they’re probably batting better than average. True enough. Glock even hit a snag in that 17M pistol, when it wasn't much of anything for a change over what they typically make. Shit happens, no matter the brand. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:59:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll jump onboard when the ammo is more accessible and the rifle drops into the 2.5k range Wolf Wolf Wolf |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:59:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree, but what criteria would it have to meet to be "proven" to you? I don't know exactly what my criteria would be, just generally curious what people think would suffice. To be proven to me I would need 4-6 years of battlefield use data. I came from the gwot era during which lots of things were found out as strengths or weaknesses with the m4. We do not have battle time with this rifle yet. This thread reminds me a lot of a joglee thread. He too was touting how great these new gen rifles were going to be. So far all they still do is shoot bullets. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 6:59:53 PM EDT
[#35]
I’m too poor for this thread.
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:00:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Defeat Modern Russian Body Armor. That shit doesnt seem to be working right now against normal stuff. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:01:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They said the same thing with the ACR...and the SCAR....Sucker. Do forget the glorious XM8. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:03:49 PM EDT
[#38]
This has .224 Valkyrie and .350 Legend written all over it.
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:04:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That shit doesnt seem to be working right now against normal stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Defeat Modern Russian Body Armor. That shit doesnt seem to be working right now against normal stuff. You spelled NLAWs weird. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:04:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote History |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:06:03 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm interested to see what the standard model will cost. A SBR Creedmoor might be fun too.
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:06:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Weighs what, almost 3 pounds more than an M4? (And with a shorter barrel)
Costs what, almost 12 times more than an M4. Even the shittiest ammo for it costs what, 75% more than a 308 round. We won’t even get into the 3 pound Vortex optic they chose for it. It’s exactly what our troops need. A 30 pound carbine load out to gain 6 feet of drop at 1000 yards over 308. Makes soooo much sense. OICW failure part two. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:11:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OICW failure part two. At least the OICW had cool future airburst grenade things. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:14:15 PM EDT
[#44]
My AR's work fine also.
Quote HistoryQuoted: No they don't. They just like to spend tax payers dollars on something that will never be fielded in significant numbers. Not to mention the kickbacks from defense contractors. And this |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:16:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have you ever tried tracking down spare KAC parts? Also, the design is built around higher cycle life parts. Spare Parts availability is also irrelevant on whether or not the rifle is superior. Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. Enjoy being 'Overmatched' with your glorified varmint round. 
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:19:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have you ever tried tracking down spare KAC parts? Also, the design is built around higher cycle life parts. Spare Parts availability is also irrelevant on whether or not the rifle is superior. Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. Enjoy being 'Overmatched' with your glorified varmint round. https://i.imgur.com/6N6IdM5.jpg Damn...That's a lot of machine guns... |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:20:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryI hate every gun in that picture. |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Meh.
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:33:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryAre those posties, or are you that cool? |
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Posted: 3/18/2022 7:44:05 PM EDT
[#50]
"Defies all ballistic theory"
 Attached FileThose high pressures are going to cause issues at some point. |
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