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Quoted: I've thought you were a Lt for as long as you've been on the board. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am not a vet, and never served... Your chances of a promotion to Captain are diminishing by the minute. Maybe I should'a been an Lt. I mean, I screwed up the LiL abbreviation and all. That's kinda like getting lost with a map and compass right ? I've thought you were a Lt for as long as you've been on the board. |
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Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. That's not an M249. |
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Quoted: Yeah, but the GD answer should always be GET BOTH View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't we do this at least once every couple months? And it's always fun Yeah, but the GD answer should always be GET BOTH |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. That's not an M249. |
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Didn't a guy in the other shotgun thread claim something about a guy's heart literally getting blown out of his body? Like... shot right out of his back, or something? View Quote He told me to shoot first and ask questions later. I would have asked for clarification, but I had to shoot him. |
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Quoted: Starved to death? Chicken Pox or Shingles? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Second, you've falsely equated the damage of a single pellet of 00 buck (why you termed it OO buck is beyond me), with a single round of 5.56, which is simply refuckingtarded, particularly at close range. Your understanding of terminal ballistics is comedic, at best. You don't say? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Doolinbody.png Starved to death? Chicken Pox or Shingles? At any rate, I'm not seeing any "devastating, meat blown off leaving bare bone" effect here. |
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I think that nearly, or maybe actually, everyone in the "AR wins" camp does have both. Several of us, at least, have more than one shotgun, and some of us have some damn nice shotguns. Hell, RA toe-loaded pizza rolls into a Benelli M4/M1014. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Don't we do this at least once every couple months? And it's always fun Yeah, but the GD answer should always be GET BOTH I own an AR, AK, FAL, SKS, 2x 870, Winny 1200, Browning A5, plus assorted pistols, sporting arms, and black powder firearms. And yet, when TSHTF, I'm reaching for the AR. |
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I own an AR, AK, FAL, SKS, 2x 870, Winny 1200, Browning A5, plus assorted pistols, sporting arms, and black powder firearms. And yet, when TSHTF, I'm reaching for the AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Don't we do this at least once every couple months? And it's always fun Yeah, but the GD answer should always be GET BOTH I own an AR, AK, FAL, SKS, 2x 870, Winny 1200, Browning A5, plus assorted pistols, sporting arms, and black powder firearms. And yet, when TSHTF, I'm reaching for the AR. Three ARs and Three 870s plus a couple single barreled Shotguns, a HiStandard, and a Winchester O/U.........so I guess I got it covered. |
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Quoted: I own an AR, AK, FAL, SKS, 2x 870, Winny 1200, Browning A5, plus assorted pistols, sporting arms, and black powder firearms. And yet, when TSHTF, I'm reaching for the AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't we do this at least once every couple months? And it's always fun Yeah, but the GD answer should always be GET BOTH I own an AR, AK, FAL, SKS, 2x 870, Winny 1200, Browning A5, plus assorted pistols, sporting arms, and black powder firearms. And yet, when TSHTF, I'm reaching for the AR. |
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Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. That's not an M249. <obamafistbump> |
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https://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1648059
Another gem from 9 months ago...this thread saw the rise of the screen door for home defense. |
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OP, a thread of this subject is always good for several pages of replies on this board. It's like putting a worm on a hook and lowering it into the lake in front of a school of hungry bluegills. You are sure to get a lot of bites. My favorite rifle is an AK-74. I love it. Low recoil, easy to maneuver, and very high capacity. Also effective for PD using the Hornady 60-grain rounds with the V-MAX bullet. BUT.....would I use it for home defense? Absolutely not. Instead I force myself to use a 1911 pistol and a Remington Tactical 870 12-guage shotgun. Why? Because in my little Appalachian town almost every home has one or two 12-guage shotguns. So, it is almost taken for granted that a homeowner would shoot an intruder with a 12-guage shotgun here. NO way I would use my favorite AK-74 for home defense and then have the local DA and news media thinking about charging me with a crime of murder when I was forced to defend myself in my own home. So, I hate shotguns but that does not mean that I cannot use one proficiently. So I go with Federal Police Tactical 00 buckshot 12-guage shells and force myself to shoot that sucker enough to stay proficient. Thus I am using a "politically correct" firearm for home defense here in Appalachia. A surprising number of local Appalachian people consider the AK-74 to be a "commie gun" and you are being a "disloyal" American if you own one. Seriously, I have had them tell me that - in a nice way thankfully. They also can't understand how an old retired Vietnam vet and career military guy like me would like a "commie gun." View Quote You probably would not have much to worry about in a conservative area if you used an AR/AK in a home defense situation. Fifteen years ago, perhaps. Not today. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. That's not an M249. <obamafistbump> |
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Yeah, when I first saw the pic, I thought the feed chute (or whatever the correct fucking nomenclature for the bit the rounds travel through, between the backpack and the gun) looked a bit wide for 5.56. View Quote I rescued one of those rigs from the garbage can a few years back. When I finish my semi MG42, I'm going to figure out something. |
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Quoted: I rescued one of those rigs from the garbage can a few years back. When I finish my semi MG42, I'm going to figure out something. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, when I first saw the pic, I thought the feed chute (or whatever the correct fucking nomenclature for the bit the rounds travel through, between the backpack and the gun) looked a bit wide for 5.56. I rescued one of those rigs from the garbage can a few years back. When I finish my semi MG42, I'm going to figure out something. Not that I have a belt fed anyway. Although I'm looking at putting together a semi, .308 MG53... |
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Oh yea. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Ar-15/DSC00113_zps876d9b4c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Ar-15/DSC00113_zps876d9b4c.jpg</a> Watched a few episodes of Heli Hunter and was amazed how much buckshot those hogs could soak up at close range, rifle bullets killed much better. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Do you have bears in your AO? Oh yea. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/Ar-15/DSC00113_zps876d9b4c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Ar-15/DSC00113_zps876d9b4c.jpg</a> Watched a few episodes of Heli Hunter and was amazed how much buckshot those hogs could soak up at close range, rifle bullets killed much better. I shot several hogs inside 20m with 3" #1 before I decided it should be a rifle only affair. |
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I saw a write up on one, or something similar, in a gun rag a couple years ago. I thought it looked badass, and I wanted one...but damn, dat money. Not that I have a belt fed anyway. Although I'm looking at putting together a semi, .308 MG53... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Yeah, when I first saw the pic, I thought the feed chute (or whatever the correct fucking nomenclature for the bit the rounds travel through, between the backpack and the gun) looked a bit wide for 5.56. I rescued one of those rigs from the garbage can a few years back. When I finish my semi MG42, I'm going to figure out something. Not that I have a belt fed anyway. Although I'm looking at putting together a semi, .308 MG53... MG 3, MG 42, and MG 53 parts in a box=MG42 to me, we're probably using some stuff from the same companies. I just want to make a rig worthy of some CWG style pics. |
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Quoted: MG 3, MG 42, and MG 53 parts in a box=MG42 to me, we're probably using some stuff from the same companies. I just want to make a rig worthy of some CWG style pics. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, when I first saw the pic, I thought the feed chute (or whatever the correct fucking nomenclature for the bit the rounds travel through, between the backpack and the gun) looked a bit wide for 5.56. I rescued one of those rigs from the garbage can a few years back. When I finish my semi MG42, I'm going to figure out something. Not that I have a belt fed anyway. Although I'm looking at putting together a semi, .308 MG53... MG 3, MG 42, and MG 53 parts in a box=MG42 to me, we're probably using some stuff from the same companies. I just want to make a rig worthy of some CWG style pics. |
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A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short. View Quote I have a JM Pro 930 and a suppressed 11.5" SBR with IR light/laser, white light, and red dot. The 930 is for gun games. The AR is for the defense of my life, my family, and my way of life. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. That's not an M249. insert the burn.gif of your choice here |
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I've thought you were a Lt for as long as you've been on the board. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I am not a vet, and never served... Your chances of a promotion to Captain are diminishing by the minute. Maybe I should'a been an Lt. I mean, I screwed up the LiL abbreviation and all. That's kinda like getting lost with a map and compass right ? I've thought you were a Lt for as long as you've been on the board. Nope...just a tard who messed up the abbreviation for LiL Abner and turned it into Ltlabner. Just kept using it despite the 'tardation. If the board allowed for name changes I *might* change it but I've used it for so long there really isn't a point. Just a middle aged civilian here. |
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Quoted: insert the burn.gif of your choice here View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. That's not an M249. insert the burn.gif of your choice here |
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And yet, the AF REMF knew what it was. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. That's not an M249. insert the burn.gif of your choice here |
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Quoted: Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. View Quote |
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I dont give a rancid shit what anyone says, if the doors in my house came crashing down right now with some methheads ready to burst in and try there "lets take him by surprise shit', I AM GOING FOR MY MOSSY loaded with federal double odd, somebody else is going to clean up this fuckin mess, it's gonna be bad.
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I dont give a rancid shit what anyone says, if the doors in my house came crashing down right now with some methheads ready to burst in and try there "lets take him by surprise shit', I AM GOING FOR MY MOSSY loaded with federal double odd, somebody else is going to clean up this fuckin mess, it's gonna be bad. View Quote That is odd. Double odd. |
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I own several ARs, in multiple calibers and piston/DI both, AKs and derivatives (curiously, all of my proper AKs are either pistols or SBRs), FS2000, PS90, bolt guns, Dragunovs, 870, Saiga 12, VEPR 12, Franchi o/u, Benelli M2, loads of pistols...and the first gun I'd want to defend my life or my family would be one of the ARs. View Quote This made me laugh, what's a proper AK? |
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Yeah but, "screaming fucking nightmare" now belongs on the bingo card. Also, its an awesome name for a death metal band. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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it is a screaming fucking nighmare. Sounds positively gothic. ETA: Dammit Yeah but, "screaming fucking nightmare" now belongs on the bingo card. Also, its an awesome name for a death metal band. Sounds like a wet dream gone all wrong. |
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Quoted: Very close to right. You forgot about 0 buck (excellent choice for defense) #4 is too small to reliably penetrate to critical depth so right about being worst choice of the buckshots. Best choices are #1 #0 #00 #000 in that order best to less best... BIGGER_HAMMER View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll go. They say that 00 or 000 buck shot isn't even the best choice. IIRC the best choice for shot is[s] #4 [/s] #1buck (not Bird shot) due to number of pellets and weight of each pellet. ETA: The only shot gun I currently own is a 20 gauge double that would be my absolute last choice in a HD scenario. behind a Mosin Nagant #4B is the worst of buckshot. #1 is best, then 00 and 000 Very close to right. You forgot about 0 buck (excellent choice for defense) #4 is too small to reliably penetrate to critical depth so right about being worst choice of the buckshots. Best choices are #1 #0 #00 #000 in that order best to less best... BIGGER_HAMMER Yeah I'm the Alaskan with his private zoo. |
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I dont give a rancid shit what anyone says, if the doors in my house came crashing down right now with some methheads ready to burst in and try there "lets take him by surprise shit', I AM GOING FOR MY MOSSY loaded with federal double odd, somebody else is going to clean up this fuckin mess, it's gonna be bad. View Quote Here you go bruh. Crime Scene Clean Up |
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And you can't even rack the screen door on an autoloading shotgun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short. Yep. And capacity, and reloading speed, and precision. Oh, and by the time you get a halfway decent autoloading shotgun it's more expensive than a good AR15 now too.... And you can't even rack the screen door on an autoloading shotgun. True dat bro. |
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Quoted: This made me laugh, what's a proper AK? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I own several ARs, in multiple calibers and piston/DI both, AKs and derivatives (curiously, all of my proper AKs are either pistols or SBRs), FS2000, PS90, bolt guns, Dragunovs, 870, Saiga 12, VEPR 12, Franchi o/u, Benelli M2, loads of pistols...and the first gun I'd want to defend my life or my family would be one of the ARs. This made me laugh, what's a proper AK? In other words, my Krink, my AK-104, and my Draco. |
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Before I buckle down on school shit... The fun thing about these threads is that people don't take the time to reconcile is that 5.56 gets deadlier and more incapacitating at a faster rate as range decreases due to yaw and fragmentation. As range decreases with a shotgun, so does the shot pattern. At close ranges like HD, the pattern can be very small to almost unopened. This means that the accuracy margin that they enjoy is diminished and that a near miss could be no different than with a rifle. From a terminal perspective, close up shot and buckshot acts like a solid mass, further out they are individual objects, not "a wall of lead". Just a bunch of low power pistol rounds that as range increases, are more likely to miss vital areas. Of course, one could load slugs to avoid that, since at close range everything acts like one mass so you're not losing anything, and at farther range it's more accurate... But then all that's been created is a slow to shoot, heavy low capacity rifle. Anyone that can competently defend their home with a shotgun, would be more capable with a rifle. View Quote So what you are saying is that at nearly point-blank range 00 12 gauge wouldn't kill a kitten... |
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So what you are saying is that at nearly point-blank range 00 12 gauge wouldn't kill a kitten... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Before I buckle down on school shit... The fun thing about these threads is that people don't take the time to reconcile is that 5.56 gets deadlier and more incapacitating at a faster rate as range decreases due to yaw and fragmentation. As range decreases with a shotgun, so does the shot pattern. At close ranges like HD, the pattern can be very small to almost unopened. This means that the accuracy margin that they enjoy is diminished and that a near miss could be no different than with a rifle. From a terminal perspective, close up shot and buckshot acts like a solid mass, further out they are individual objects, not "a wall of lead". Just a bunch of low power pistol rounds that as range increases, are more likely to miss vital areas. Of course, one could load slugs to avoid that, since at close range everything acts like one mass so you're not losing anything, and at farther range it's more accurate... But then all that's been created is a slow to shoot, heavy low capacity rifle. Anyone that can competently defend their home with a shotgun, would be more capable with a rifle. So what you are saying is that at nearly point-blank range 00 12 gauge wouldn't kill a kitten... Show us where anybody in this thread has said that. |
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So what you are saying is that at nearly point-blank range 00 12 gauge wouldn't kill a kitten... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Before I buckle down on school shit... The fun thing about these threads is that people don't take the time to reconcile is that 5.56 gets deadlier and more incapacitating at a faster rate as range decreases due to yaw and fragmentation. As range decreases with a shotgun, so does the shot pattern. At close ranges like HD, the pattern can be very small to almost unopened. This means that the accuracy margin that they enjoy is diminished and that a near miss could be no different than with a rifle. From a terminal perspective, close up shot and buckshot acts like a solid mass, further out they are individual objects, not "a wall of lead". Just a bunch of low power pistol rounds that as range increases, are more likely to miss vital areas. Of course, one could load slugs to avoid that, since at close range everything acts like one mass so you're not losing anything, and at farther range it's more accurate... But then all that's been created is a slow to shoot, heavy low capacity rifle. Anyone that can competently defend their home with a shotgun, would be more capable with a rifle. So what you are saying is that at nearly point-blank range 00 12 gauge wouldn't kill a kitten... Lol |
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I've noticed alot being debated about the suitability of the shotgun vs the rifle for defense . Both sides come out fairly strongly in favor of their choice, so here's a few random thoughts from my mind. I figure there's no better time to do this since the kids in bed, the wife is watching orange is the new black, I'm off tomorrow and just cracked the first of my home made ciders I bottles 3 weeks ago; One, (these are my opinions mind you) Despite what some say the pump shotgun is NOT obsolete for defensive or even offensive work in the right circumstances. Just don't try to use it outside of its limitations. For the average Joe, a good pump twelve in winchester/rem/mossy flavors if set up right will definitely defend hearth and home against unwanted intruders and do it effectively with the right ammunition. _To those that advocate useing birdshot--------------- Can it kill? Sure. I'm not shooting on CAN. If I'm to engage I'm shooting on and with the more than reasonable chance that it WILL stop the threat on the first round, making my next one or two "insurance shots" superfluous. Racking the shotgun to scare a threat-- That MAY have worked, it COULD work, that's not a safe bet nor one I'm willing to practice or take when my life and more importantly my girls lives are at stake. You don't know who they are in the house, what they want or what they are on. The first indication to the intruder that I am there with a shotgun in my home is going to be a muzzle blast. That being said, different fire-arms are much like different tools in a tool box. If you don't use the right tool for the right application you are going to get either sub standard or disastrous results. Now, I have ARs, etc etc. I love them, but I don't have it for primary use inside the confines of the house walls. Many mention about ease of use of an Ar vs Shotgun. That can be true, however if you are well versed and trained on your tool, even though the AR is more "user friendly" in some ways, to guys that train and are used to the shotgun it becomes a moot point inside your own home. ( I have used the MP-5, M4, M16 and Moss/Rem shotguns in CQB situations {Navy} and I can say that I prefer the shotgun and always carried it when given the choice) Now I doubt I will ever have multiple determined, trained attackers assault my property/home. If they do then the shotgun is only the gun I use to get to the rifle, after the threats indoors are silenced. Yes for that siege scenario the shotgun is less than ideal, but you are more than under-armed if that's all you have at hand as well. In my home, if there is a breach, everyone in the home is behind me and I am between them and the threat. Over penetration be damned, I use 00 or 000 buck. Max sight line in my house is 20 feet. A charge or two of 00 in your sternum at that range is going to do the job. Lets get to defeating body armor, I doubt anyone in my area breaking in will have a decent set or one at all on so I am not all overly concerned about that aspect of the issue. Survival; If I only had one gun to make ends meet out to the cabin, I can shoot slugs out to 100 yards+ accurately, use buckshot or bird shot, all carried on my person to deal with any game or threat I come across, all from one weapon system. Again, yes it takes more training to utilize it's full potential compared to an AR, but I have the experience and I am confident in its use. I'm not saying I don't like the AR. I'm not saying it's less effective then the shotgun.I am not saying the shotgun is better than the AR either. I am simply stating that if a person or persons were to break into my home, they would not laugh and say "He only had a shotgun" Nothing says dead like multiple .33-.36 caliber holes through your vitals. On to legal issues (I hate this idiocy but it is a reality for some of us) The shotgun is more "acceptable". It shouldn't make a difference legally and yes I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 as well but for advocacy of the devil lets get into this. If you mag dump into a person from an "assault" rifle you look different to the idiots running things and making decisions that affect your life after the incident than if you used the old trusty pump. On the same sort of note the wife always said I'd get in trouble if I had to defend us because I would look too "professional". She thinks I'd likely double tap and anchor shoot. That'd look bad too.......... So, in closing I do not think my shotgun is obsolete. Neither do the military that use them either, and they aren't just used for breaching doors. However, you are not using it in a military application, you are defending your family, inside your home. That shotgun will work just fine, if you know how to use it. You can screw up with an AR too. View Quote Sorry but the shotgun is outdated, the military does think they are obsolete because they are, and I want the best tool for the job. |
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From a terminal perspective, close up shot and buckshot acts like a solid mass, further out they are individual objects, not "a wall of lead". Just a bunch of low power pistol rounds that as range increases, are more likely to miss vital areas. Of course, one could load slugs to avoid that, since at close range everything acts like one mass so you're not losing anything, and at farther range it's more accurate... View Quote Totally false. From AR15.com Defensive Shotgun Ammo - Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176 "Wouldn't a load of birdshot "act like" a slug at close range? No, it will not. For instance, each pellet of #6 shot weighs approximately 1.8 grains. If there are 333 #6 pellets in a shotgun shell, the total weight of the birdshot is 600 grains. Some folks have mistakenly said, "A load of #6 is like getting shot with a solid piece of lead weighing 600 grains". But this is not the case. This is because that 600 grain load is composed of 333 individual #6 sized shot, each weighing 1.8 grains. And the penetration of the shot is dependant on the weight of "each pellet", not the total weight. And a 1.8 grain pellet will not penetrate very far into ballistic gelatin or a bad guy." Neither does buckshot. Each pellet is on it's own. |
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Quoted: Show us where anybody in this thread has said that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Before I buckle down on school shit... The fun thing about these threads is that people don't take the time to reconcile is that 5.56 gets deadlier and more incapacitating at a faster rate as range decreases due to yaw and fragmentation. As range decreases with a shotgun, so does the shot pattern. At close ranges like HD, the pattern can be very small to almost unopened. This means that the accuracy margin that they enjoy is diminished and that a near miss could be no different than with a rifle. From a terminal perspective, close up shot and buckshot acts like a solid mass, further out they are individual objects, not "a wall of lead". Just a bunch of low power pistol rounds that as range increases, are more likely to miss vital areas. Of course, one could load slugs to avoid that, since at close range everything acts like one mass so you're not losing anything, and at farther range it's more accurate... But then all that's been created is a slow to shoot, heavy low capacity rifle. Anyone that can competently defend their home with a shotgun, would be more capable with a rifle. So what you are saying is that at nearly point-blank range 00 12 gauge wouldn't kill a kitten... Show us where anybody in this thread has said that. I don't know how some of these people make it through daily life with reading comprehension like that. What happens when they get a utility bill? "So what you are saying is that I should shit in my laundry hamper and send you my shoes?" |
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... a wound cavity that size deeper (where the vitals are) would be better. Too close to the surface = the bird shot affect. BIGGER_HAMMER View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No one seems to consider the aftermath. With a shotgun/birdshot, its spackle and paint. With AR, its doors, water heater and neighbors needing repair or replacement. lol How are you going to spackle and paint those bird-shot holes in your drywall when you're dead? I'll go to Lowe's and get a new water heater on Saturday, when I am alive. /snipping a bunch of pictures that are irrelevant/ That should do ya for awhile. do you even anecdotal evidence bro? http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/bird_8_heavy_dove_b.jpg http://frankbaumer.com/Heartland%20Pictures/1_Pics/Hornady_80268_223_TAP_FPD_75gr_BTHP.jpg Look, if you live a ways from the nearest Lowe's or Home Depot so you don't want to spend that Saturday after a home defense shooting driving all the way to Birmingham and dealing with the construction on I-65 or whatever just to replace a water heater, it's okay. You can use a shotgun, not eliminate the threat and you can be at your wake on Saturday so it's all good. As long as you don't have to deal with that traffic on your weekend, it's a bummer I know. ... a wound cavity that size deeper (where the vitals are) would be better. Too close to the surface = the bird shot affect. BIGGER_HAMMER Why they dead then? |
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