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Posted: 5/1/2015 5:26:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The land of alternating buck and 762x39. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If AKs belong in can of garbage, then where belong Moss'chesters and Rem'bergs? http://i.imgur.com/vn3rteV.gif  |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 5:32:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it is a screaming fucking nighmare. 5.56 is effective (kill), but 12ga OO is VERY effective (OVERkill). Within it's performance envelope, a shotgun is a phenomenal defensive weapon.   |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 5:52:48 PM EDT
[#3]
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Ah, fanboi... you have never seen an autopsy from a close-range shooting with buckshot, have you? Believe me, inside 50 yards, buckshot works. inside of 25 yards, it is a screaming fucking nighmare. 5.56 is effective (kill), but 12ga OO is VERY effective (OVERkill). Within it's performance envelope, a shotgun is a phenomenal defensive weapon. would you classify it as gothic? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 5:57:51 PM EDT
[#4]
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it is a screaming fucking nighmare. Sounds positively gothic. ETA: Dammit 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 6:01:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds positively gothic. ETA: Dammit Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: it is a screaming fucking nighmare. Sounds positively gothic. ETA: Dammit |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 6:06:58 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 5/1/2015 6:09:57 PM EDT
[#7]
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2.2" low at 10 feet dead on at 50m dead on at 200m within 2.5" POA/POI from 0-225m It isn't rocket surgery. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, I'm off to bed. I'd like to make clear I don't believe or advocate the shotgun retardery that's commonly said in social circles. I happen to have the 590 out, and if something goes bump in the night that's what I grab. If you have (and I have had) an AR for a night stand gun than power to you. I have my reasons and I prefer the 590. I don't think I am disadvantaged for any reasonable scenario in the house by using it, and I don't think that anyone breaking in would think me a laughing stock facing that same 590. Night boys. Bad guy holding your wife in front of him as a hostage. Gun to head/knife to throat/whatever... and I'm sure that every AR owner here has actually shot his AR at ultra close range and knows exactly how much P.O.I. deviation he has a 10 feet Vs. his 300 meter zeros. BIGGER_HAMMER 
Obligatory Shoot The Hostage Pic... https://writesofmurph.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/speed-banner.jpg 2.2" low at 10 feet dead on at 50m dead on at 200m within 2.5" POA/POI from 0-225m It isn't rocket surgery. I'm not even arguing with him anymore. It's obvious that "HE" has never trained with a rifle at anything other than benchrest distances. I assume that he is so dead set on using a shotgun for the simple reason that he's really not qualified to defend anyone with anything. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 6:33:36 PM EDT
[#8]
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O.K. Madcap. You got me, what the F is toe loading, before I have to look it up? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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snip 15 years experience, both ground and sea. I do well enough under stress that I can still shoot. Stress aside, the group with one shot from the 590 is tight enough that it wouldn't make a difference at 20 feet if I made it with the AR, so with your logic, I shouldn't make it with either? Know you and your weapons limitations. I make sure I know mine. If I don't think I can make a shot, I don't. If you don't think you can make one I can, don't do it either. The real thing is, how fast can you toe load? O.K. Madcap. You got me, what the F is toe loading, before I have to look it up? I don't care if this has already been answered, I'm still going to show off my funky monkey toes and reckless endangerment.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:36:24 PM EDT
[#9]
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Have you ever actually fired a gun or you one of those Call of Duty players, because what I'm saying now and what I said before is the exact same thing. Pulling the trigger once on a shotgun fires one shotgun shell. Pulling the trigger on an AR fires one cartridge. Firing one three inch 00 buck shotgun shell launched fifteen projectiles. To launch fifteen projectiles on an AR you need to pull the trigger 15 times...unless you were referring to Class III, and we both know you weren't. Please, just stop posting. You aren't going to make yourself look any better. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:39:11 PM EDT
[#10]
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WARGOBBLE11!!!1!!!1!1!! The best part of this thread is WARGOBBLE This needs repeating. WARGOBBLE!!! http://api.ning.com/files/kX*LFPvx4SFMMQMYsrSDIAYo8LYm-kfSSQfMh2w2kYQPOgupyqH2z19KNwPclicam8JamHJLNl4ixdp*ZIaKr5Dz*c7OD-k-/wharrgarbl.jpg 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:39:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have you ever actually fired a gun or you one of those Call of Duty players, because what I'm saying now and what I said before is the exact same thing. Pulling the trigger once on a shotgun fires one shotgun shell. Pulling the trigger on an AR fires one cartridge. Firing one three inch 00 buck shotgun shell launched fifteen projectiles. To launch fifteen projectiles on an AR you need to pull the trigger 15 times...unless you were referring to Class III, and we both know you weren't. Please, just stop posting. You aren't going to make yourself look any better.  |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:05:11 PM EDT
[#12]
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Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:05:47 PM EDT
[#13]
The real war against the Hitlerverse isn't against their weapons. It's against illiteracy.
OH YOU SAY SHOTGUNS AREN'T EFFECTIVE?! DAT DER BUCKSHOT WILL SHOT A FIST SIZED HOLE IN A MANS CHEST. ONE SHOT STOP RIGHT DER. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:08:45 PM EDT
[#14]
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Dem rabbits is quick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it is a screaming fucking nighmare. Sounds positively gothic. ETA: Dammit Yeah but, "screaming fucking nightmare" now belongs on the bingo card. Also, its an awesome name for a death metal band. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:10:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah but, "screaming fucking nightmare" now belongs on the bingo card. Also, its an awesome name for a death metal band. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: it is a screaming fucking nighmare. Sounds positively gothic. ETA: Dammit Yeah but, "screaming fucking nightmare" now belongs on the bingo card. Also, its an awesome name for a death metal band. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:10:47 PM EDT
[#16]
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I, at least, skimmed it. No one, hyperbole for humorous effect aside, ever said that the shotgun is useless for HD. But it's so completely outclassed by the AR that it's just silly to go with that when an AR is available. Okay, time to throw gas on the fire...how exactly does the AR "completely outclass" a 12 gauge? The last I checked the anatomy of human beings haven't evolved any further than they did since shotguns were first invented, which tells me that OO buck is every bit as lethal today as they were in days past. Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. The rationale I go by is this- if it's a short ranged single target you want to put down immediately; the 12 gauge is king. If you need to engage ten or more targets or if the range is longer, then the AR is king. If you want to engage targets 1000 yards out with a heavy punch, then heavy rifles like M1a are king. Saying "The AR outclasses everything else" is like saying a hammer outclasses a screwdriver. They were designed to perform different tasks and there is no such thing as one single tool that does everything. People with heavy rifles like an M1A who engage targets at 1000 yards with a heavy punch will laugh at your AR. You do know that, right? I have a 12 gauge AND an AR AND a Garand, so I am not playing favorites. Second, you've falsely equated the damage of a single pellet of 00 buck (why you termed it OO buck is beyond me), with a single round of 5.56, which is simply refuckingtarded, particularly at close range. Your understanding of terminal ballistics is comedic, at best. You don't say? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Doolinbody.png Starved to death? Chicken Pox or Shingles? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:21:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WARGOBBLE11!!!1!!!1!1!! The best part of this thread is WARGOBBLE This needs repeating. WARGOBBLE!!! http://api.ning.com/files/kX*LFPvx4SFMMQMYsrSDIAYo8LYm-kfSSQfMh2w2kYQPOgupyqH2z19KNwPclicam8JamHJLNl4ixdp*ZIaKr5Dz*c7OD-k-/wharrgarbl.jpg http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/natebedair/Mobile%20Uploads/350871DE-708C-4C2A-8310-FBE65D25D61F_zpsnqtkia5c.jpg  WARGOBBLE!!!11!!11!111! |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:30:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Didn't a guy in the other shotgun thread claim something about a guy's heart literally getting blown out of his body? Like... shot right out of his back, or something?
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:38:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't a guy in the other shotgun thread claim something about a guy's heart literally getting blown out of his body? Like... shot right out of his back, or something? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:45:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ever actually fired a gun or you one of those Call of Duty players, because what I'm saying now and what I said before is the exact same thing. Pulling the trigger once on a shotgun fires one shotgun shell. Pulling the trigger on an AR fires one cartridge. Firing one three inch 00 buck shotgun shell launched fifteen projectiles. To launch fifteen projectiles on an AR you need to pull the trigger 15 times...unless you were referring to Class III, and we both know you weren't. Please, just stop posting. You aren't going to make yourself look any better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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[quspan style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:[/span] [span style='font-weight: bold;']
[/span][/quoThe pic you posted meant absolutely nothing, so I figured I put in enough minimal effort to match it. Seriously, your picture, as a furtherance of your argument, means NOTHING. Woo, you found a picture of a dead old outlaw who was killed by a shotgun. So convince, much evidence. I never claimed to be an expert in terminal ballistics. I'd say I'm an informed layman. I've read enough about the subject, and looked at enough evidence (not random anecdotes, which are a favorite of the shitgun crowd), to have an informed discussion with other informed laymen, and to not make a complete fool of myself to an actual expert. YOU, on the other hand, equated 5.56, specifically at HD ranges, with a single pellet of 00 buck. As the evidence others have presented in the pages after, this shows such ignorance of the subject that you seem qualified to discuss terminal ballistics with gap-toothed Cletus, who sometimes works the gun counter at Bass Pro, but prefers to work the fishing tackle section. HA HA I love it when people come on GD and get so butt hurt when people disagree with them. You are the one who showed a photo of a head shot from a 7.62 as proof of the lethality of a 5.56 AR, not me. All I did was call you on it, and [span style='font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);']no I didn't compare a single pellet of 00 buck with 5.56. I compared one ROUND of a 12 gauge 00 buck...as in one shell... with one ROUND of a 5.56...as in one cartridge.[/span] If you want an equivalent photo of a shotgun head wound to compare apples and apples, here you go. This guy committed suicide so we can safely assume only one shotgun shell was fired: http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f10/346663d1332380423-gunshot-wound-deaths-64.jpg You got caught at a bait and switch. Deal with it. [span style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:[/span]
Moreover, to repeat the damage caused by 00 buck with one pull of the trigger you'll need to pull the trigger on an AR FIFTEEN TIMES. Or, you're literally too dumb to remember what you said just a few pages ago. Have you ever actually fired a gun or you one of those Call of Duty players, because what I'm saying now and what I said before is the exact same thing. Pulling the trigger once on a shotgun fires one shotgun shell. Pulling the trigger on an AR fires one cartridge. Firing one three inch 00 buck shotgun shell launched fifteen projectiles. To launch fifteen projectiles on an AR you need to pull the trigger 15 times...unless you were referring to Class III, and we both know you weren't. Please, just stop posting. You aren't going to make yourself look any better. Hey tard, a single 00 buck pellet is not the ballistic equivalent of a 5.56 round. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:48:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment...
snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:50:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't remember that specifically, but it sounds like the kind of idiocy we read about in these. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Didn't a guy in the other shotgun thread claim something about a guy's heart literally getting blown out of his body? Like... shot right out of his back, or something? Someone posted a similar pic in this thread a few pages back. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:53:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:54:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't remember that specifically, but it sounds like the kind of idiocy we read about in these. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Didn't a guy in the other shotgun thread claim something about a guy's heart literally getting blown out of his body? Like... shot right out of his back, or something? The phrase was something like "literally blew his heart out through his spine." |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:55:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The phrase was something like "literally blew his heart out through his spine." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Didn't a guy in the other shotgun thread claim something about a guy's heart literally getting blown out of his body? Like... shot right out of his back, or something? The phrase was something like "literally blew his heart out through his spine." |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:56:26 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:59:25 PM EDT
[#27]
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Godsdamn, hoss, hyperbole and straw man much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. My AK would literally fire 1 round reliably. If it chambered another round it would be amazing! |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:01:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My AK would literally fire 1 round reliably. If it chambered another round it would be amazing! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. My AK would literally fire 1 round reliably. If it chambered another round it would be amazing! And I damn sure wouldn't want to rely on bullets that only yaw, if that, for ballistic effect beyond simply making a hole. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:08:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't care if this has already been answered, I'm still going to show off my funky monkey toes and reckless endangerment.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxmJ9AlaSt8Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't care if this has already been answered, I'm still going to show off my funky monkey toes and reckless endangerment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxmJ9AlaSt8 |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:12:29 PM EDT
[#30]
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The phrase was something like "literally blew his heart out through his spine." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Didn't a guy in the other shotgun thread claim something about a guy's heart literally getting blown out of his body? Like... shot right out of his back, or something? The phrase was something like "literally blew his heart out through his spine." That's the guy I'm talking about. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:22:30 PM EDT
[#31]
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Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. Why in the world are you proclaiming the AR15 to only be chambered in the .223/5.56????? You do know you can get the AR15 in your precious 7.62x39 OR even in 300BLK, which is more or less has the equivalent ballistics to 7.62x39. Why in the world would I take an AK, which has far inferior controls/features, just to get the 7.62x39 round, when it isn't exclusive to the platform? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:24:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Plus, think of cleanup.
Who wants to make a bunch of extra blood to field day because of shotgun wounds? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:25:20 PM EDT
[#33]
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Why in the world are you proclaiming the AR15 to only be chambered in the .223/5.56????? You do know you can get the AR15 in your precious 7.62x39 OR even in 300BLK, which is more or less has the equivalent ballistics to 7.62x39. Why in the world would I take an AK, which has far inferior controls/features, just to get the 7.62x39 round, when it isn't exclusive to the platform? Especially when the 7.62X39 round sucks ass anyway? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:27:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Especially when the 7.62X39 round sucks ass anyway? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why in the world are you proclaiming the AR15 to only be chambered in the .223/5.56????? You do know you can get the AR15 in your precious 7.62x39 OR even in 300BLK, which is more or less has the equivalent ballistics to 7.62x39. Why in the world would I take an AK, which has far inferior controls/features, just to get the 7.62x39 round, when it isn't exclusive to the platform? Especially when the 7.62X39 round sucks ass anyway? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:40:24 PM EDT
[#35]
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But, but...CMUs, man, CMUs! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Especially when the 7.62X39 round sucks ass anyway? True.... after seeing just how terrible and ineffective our puny little 5.56 round was in Vietnam, the Soviet Union immediately doubled down on the 7.63X39 and built a whole new set of small arms to fire it. Oh wait....
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:02:42 PM EDT
[#36]
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Dem rabbits is quick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it is a screaming fucking nighmare. Sounds positively gothic. ETA: Dammit And how. He's ahead of me on the list for CW5 too. Damn rabbits. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:03:04 PM EDT
[#37]
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Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are ARs better than shotguns for home defense you ask? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=69407 Know what else is stupid? Not knowing the difference between an AR and SAW. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:07:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee427/ltlabner/Gifs/sledge%20hammer_zpsa9mwr6vq.gif  |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:12:32 PM EDT
[#40]
A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:17:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. So in response to my original claim that at 50-75 yards the AK is not effective and is a complete fail? Go to you tube and pull up the video where the AR and the AK face off against a CMU block wall and get back to me. Go to you tube and pull up the piece where the AK was far more effective in a denser jungle environment than the M16 and get back to me. Evidently I need to toss out everything else I've got and put my Goddamn AR on an alter to the great God of War. And for the record tell that to the guys whose names are on that black marble wall in DC that the AK was not an effective killing tool. The AK has at least killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I had no idea the M193 was such a devastating round compared to everything else on the planet. I guess based upon you assumption noting else is capable of killing anyone. I can't imagine what a poor GI in WW2 or Korea did having a Garand. Lets all bow down to the all mighty ,223 and it's far superior ballistics. Yeah all AK's belong in the trash can I get it. God forbid anyone use one for self defense or risk getting chastised around here. The Ar15: Is it a better platform? yes Is it more Accurate? Yes The AK: Is it minute of home invader perp? Your damn right it is, and weather you live or die you would not want to be on the receiving end of it's terminal ballistics. First: Jesus fucking Christ, man, learn how to debate something without using every fallacy in existence, ON TOP OF a lack of reading comprehension. I'm embarrassed for you. Second: I'd FAR rather be shot at by an AK (And I have been a few times) with its shitty terminal ballistics than a 5.56. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:19:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:23:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's still going to come up short on many factors, not the least of which is follow up shots. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short. Yep. And capacity, and reloading speed, and precision. Oh, and by the time you get a halfway decent autoloading shotgun it's more expensive than a good AR15 now too.... |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:28:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. And capacity, and reloading speed, and precision. Oh, and by the time you get a halfway decent autoloading shotgun it's more expensive than a good AR15 now too.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short. Yep. And capacity, and reloading speed, and precision. Oh, and by the time you get a halfway decent autoloading shotgun it's more expensive than a good AR15 now too.... And you can't even rack the screen door on an autoloading shotgun.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:30:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. And capacity, and reloading speed, and precision. Oh, and by the time you get a halfway decent autoloading shotgun it's more expensive than a good AR15 now too.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short. Yep. And capacity, and reloading speed, and precision. Oh, and by the time you get a halfway decent autoloading shotgun it's more expensive than a good AR15 now too.... |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:31:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you can't even rack the screen door on an autoloading shotgun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A better comparison would be a semi-auto shotgun with an extended tube magazine and a red dot sight vs. an AR. Obviously a pump action shotgun with a standard tube and bead sights is going to come up short. Yep. And capacity, and reloading speed, and precision. Oh, and by the time you get a halfway decent autoloading shotgun it's more expensive than a good AR15 now too.... And you can't even rack the screen door on an autoloading shotgun. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:35:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Don't we do this at least once every couple months?
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:37:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't we do this at least once every couple months? That's about right. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:56:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did the "getting shot in the hands" thing ever happen in the FoF stuff you've done? (I'm assuming you've done a fair amount of force on force training.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Doing it on the range enough to develop muscle memory would fuck that gun up. Did the "getting shot in the hands" thing ever happen in the FoF stuff you've done? (I'm assuming you've done a fair amount of force on force training.) Yeah. Even the picture tgts get hit in the hands or guns. People get wound up and get Target fixamatated. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:57:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I should'a been an Lt. I mean, I screwed up the LiL abbreviation and all. That's kinda like getting lost with a map and compass right ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am not a vet, and never served... Your chances of a promotion to Captain are diminishing by the minute.
Maybe I should'a been an Lt. I mean, I screwed up the LiL abbreviation and all. That's kinda like getting lost with a map and compass right ? I've thought you were a Lt for as long as you've been on the board. |
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