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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:33:07 AM EDT
[#1]
I can understand wanting a shotgun if your home defense plan involves breaching doors within your own house.
But what are the chances the geesemen being able to lock your doors inside your house with their long feathery fingers? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:38:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Same turds with the same shitty smell in each one of these AR vs shotgun threads.
It makes GD smell like an outhouse every time one comes up..... |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:39:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Everytime i think about how cool it would be to have Benelli m4, my logic grabs hold and tells me how much ammo, or other stuff I can buy for my ARs.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:39:44 AM EDT
[#4]
And my second choice depending on mood for social work is the AK.
So much fail. Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... I once had to live in a construction yard trailer for a month in a very bad part of town. the yard was about 75 yards square. My preferred go to gun was an under folder AK.. the AK was also very compact in the trailer. I have a very nice AR but I did not want to leave it in my car all day at work. The 7.62X39 round is far superior for going thru shit like the old vehicles and misc junk and construction materials that were scattered about the place. At 75-100 yards I would have had no problem hitting or penetrating anything. The concept of choice is based upon terrain. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:41:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Man, that sure was a lot of typing to say things that have already been said in shotgun/rifle threads about 1000 times over.
Maybe you just wanted a finger workout. It's the only explanation I can think of. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:43:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
O.K. Madcap. You got me, what the F is toe loading, before I have to look it up? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The real thing is, how fast can you toe load? O.K. Madcap. You got me, what the F is toe loading, before I have to look it up? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1637035__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Exactly_why_the_shotgun_is_the_superior_home_defense_weapon_.html&page=44 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:43:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same turds with the same shitty smell in each one of these AR vs shotgun threads. It makes GD smell like an outhouse every time one comes up..... 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:46:00 AM EDT
[#8]
I would like to use the Highlander sword from yesterday's post, but I don't think the guy is goons send it to me. If he does I promise to try and use it for a "quickening"!
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:46:39 AM EDT
[#9]
after the dogs I make sausage out of the rest.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:49:11 AM EDT
[#10]
The answer must be an SBR with a can, and TAP.
Granted, I only read the thread title. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:53:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll I read was "I have carefully planned out what will happen in a home invasion scenario, and I won't begin to believe that other things may happen." You're right, I never ruled out an entire division attacking my property and ingressing into my home before I can react. So assuming I am up against 1-4 intruders is unrealistic? Knowing my layout and where everyone is at night, and knowing where I will be during that is silly? I never said I couldn't adapt. But assuming that I am incapable of realizing probabilities and inferring that I am narrow minded about it and inflexible based on what I said is a little much. What if you get engaged by a LAV? Didn't see that coming did you? There's such a thing as reasonable probabilities and knowing ones own turf. Or, apparently you misinterperated what you read. If not by that logic you stated, I'll just hole up at the top of the stairs with a sandbagged revetment and a M2HB. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:59:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're right, I never ruled out an entire division attacking my property and ingressing into my home before I can react. So assuming I am up against 1-4 intruders is unrealistic? Knowing my layout and where everyone is at night, and knowing where I will be during that is silly? I never said I couldn't adapt. But assuming that I am incapable of realizing probabilities and inferring that I am narrow minded about it and inflexible based on what I said is a little much. What if you get engaged by a LAV? Didn't see that coming did you? There's such a thing as reasonable probabilities and knowing ones own turf. Or, apparently you misinterperated what you read. If not by that logic you stated, I'll just hole up at the top of the stairs with a sandbagged revetment and a M2HB. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll I read was "I have carefully planned out what will happen in a home invasion scenario, and I won't begin to believe that other things may happen." You're right, I never ruled out an entire division attacking my property and ingressing into my home before I can react. So assuming I am up against 1-4 intruders is unrealistic? Knowing my layout and where everyone is at night, and knowing where I will be during that is silly? I never said I couldn't adapt. But assuming that I am incapable of realizing probabilities and inferring that I am narrow minded about it and inflexible based on what I said is a little much. What if you get engaged by a LAV? Didn't see that coming did you? There's such a thing as reasonable probabilities and knowing ones own turf. Or, apparently you misinterperated what you read. If not by that logic you stated, I'll just hole up at the top of the stairs with a sandbagged revetment and a M2HB. And here we go, the irrational hyperbole. There's a vast difference between 4-5 (ie, what will fit in an average, 4 door car.) wearing body armor and a military assault force. Just say "I like shotguns because I'm stuck in 80s action movies" and stop trying to justify why a manually operated, low capacity design from the 1880s is better than a modernized, semi-automatic rifle designed to kill people in combat. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:59:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And my second choice depending on mood for social work is the AK. So much fail. Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:06:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And here we go, the irrational hyperbole. There's a vast difference between 4-5 (ie, what will fit in an average, 4 door car.) wearing body armor and a military assault force. Just say "I like shotguns because I'm stuck in 80s action movies" and stop trying to justify why a manually operated, low capacity design from the 1880s is better than a modernized, semi-automatic rifle designed to kill people in combat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll I read was "I have carefully planned out what will happen in a home invasion scenario, and I won't begin to believe that other things may happen." You're right, I never ruled out an entire division attacking my property and ingressing into my home before I can react. So assuming I am up against 1-4 intruders is unrealistic? Knowing my layout and where everyone is at night, and knowing where I will be during that is silly? I never said I couldn't adapt. But assuming that I am incapable of realizing probabilities and inferring that I am narrow minded about it and inflexible based on what I said is a little much. What if you get engaged by a LAV? Didn't see that coming did you? There's such a thing as reasonable probabilities and knowing ones own turf. Or, apparently you misinterperated what you read. If not by that logic you stated, I'll just hole up at the top of the stairs with a sandbagged revetment and a M2HB. And here we go, the irrational hyperbole. There's a vast difference between 4-5 (ie, what will fit in an average, 4 door car.) wearing body armor and a military assault force. Just say "I like shotguns because I'm stuck in 80s action movies" and stop trying to justify why a manually operated, low capacity design from the 1880s is better than a modernized, semi-automatic rifle designed to kill people in combat. So (forget how I said the Ar IS effective) because I am effective at in close distances with the shotgun my appraisal is solely because of 1980s action movies I have seen? If I can't beat a carload of guys (like a carload of guys is going to try to break in around here, but for academics sake lets say they are) at night trying to get upstairs with my primary 590 and the wife holed up, calling 911 and backing me up covering my rear, then no matter what I got I'm finished anyhow. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:08:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Well, I'm about off. I don't detract (I tend to extol) some of the weapons also suggested. I don't believe, and actually hate the urban myths when it comes to using the shotgun. I don't think its the right tool for every job either. I do KNOW it will work for me, in this house, if anything ever bad happens regardless of the what is, etc etc. And no, I haven't planned out what could happen to the exact detail as one suggests, but a man knowing his ground and possibilities also can rule out some things as probibilities. That being said, never be so inflexible that you can't adapt or react in the moment.
I've used about every modern small arm in the western world and most of the combloc ones. Oddly enough, I don't think I'm an idiot for holding the position that, if someone and a couple friends were to try to roll over in my house, they'd wind up hurting, and all with a lowly, "low capacity 1880s" technological fire-arm. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:08:24 AM EDT
[#16]
If you're going to defend you house 1980's style, at least get an Uzi with a big ass Sionics can on it, none of that shotgun crap.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:14:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With #1 buckshot, you get 150 pellets in a mag + 1 + ghost-loaded. 150 pellets in 10 rounds that can be emptied in a few seconds. No subgun or AR will ever match that kind of firepower. I think there are about 150 pellets of stupid in this post. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:19:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it didn't, we killed the SHIT out of them. Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And my second choice depending on mood for social work is the AK. So much fail. Fail you say? seemed to work pretty well for the VC in a denser environment... snerp Then when they did manage to kill our guys, they took the M-16's and used them because they were better. Your supporting evidence for your claim falls flat on it's face like a VC hit by M193. To be fair, if weapons were reversed we still would have killed the shit out of them. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:21:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same turds with the same shitty smell in each one of these AR vs shotgun threads. It makes GD smell like an outhouse every time one comes up..... Yeah, you're always in these things. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:27:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Libera tutemet ex Hitlerverse. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:28:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, you're always in these things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Same turds with the same shitty smell in each one of these AR vs shotgun threads. It makes GD smell like an outhouse every time one comes up..... Yeah, you're always in these things. Damn. It's my first one. Well, apologies for re-hashing something. I'm off to bed, night fellas. P.S., don't break into my house to find out if my 590s obsolete. That's not a threat, it's a request. I'm half cut on cider, tired because the kids sleep cycle is Fcked because of teething and I don't want to deal with anything tonight, including un-announced guests
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:31:54 AM EDT
[#22]
I guess it is that time of the month again.
I've never seen any statistics in these dumb threads. Anyone have any? Home defense engagements vs % dead bad guys for scattergun vs AR? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 1:49:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You keep yours, I'll keep mine!http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/jaqufrost/20140421_220017_zps6de2d6df.jpg There are 40 of these on tap: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/WebData/HornadyRifle/223-rem-75-BTHP-Gelatin.jpg What is that, a leaf? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 2:22:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The real thing is, how fast can you toe load? O.K. Madcap. You got me, what the F is toe loading, before I have to look it up? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1637035__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Exactly_why_the_shotgun_is_the_superior_home_defense_weapon_.html&page=44  what in the shit?
What is this "Hitlerverse" or whatever? I missed that one too. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 2:23:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The answer must be an SBR with a can, and TAP TSX. Granted, I only read the thread title. fify |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 2:31:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So (forget how I said the Ar IS effective) because I am effective at in close distances with the shotgun my appraisal is solely because of 1980s action movies I have seen? If I can't beat a carload of guys (like a carload of guys is going to try to break in around here, but for academics sake lets say they are) at night trying to get upstairs with my primary 590 and the wife holed up, calling 911 and backing me up covering my rear, then no matter what I got I'm finished anyhow. You're making my earlier point for me. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 2:44:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what in the shit?What is this "Hitlerverse" or whatever? I missed that one too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The real thing is, how fast can you toe load? O.K. Madcap. You got me, what the F is toe loading, before I have to look it up? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1637035__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Exactly_why_the_shotgun_is_the_superior_home_defense_weapon_.html&page=44 what in the shit?What is this "Hitlerverse" or whatever? I missed that one too. Make sure you choose your side wisely, and arm yourself appropriately things work very different in the hitlervers. . The wall between reality and there is thin in some places. Sometimes thin enough you might see posts based on these different physical realities. It's why some posts here make little sense like "Shotguns are better for HD than rifles". Until the first portal opened, we had no clue WHY posts were made like that. After seeing the truth, we knew. If you're lucky, one day you might hear the tale of the portal, or find it in the archives. Many of us still have PTSTD's from that day. Learn hard, learn fast. Read the thread because you'll need to be able to know who to trust, and who not to. Who is real, and who is a geeseman in disguise. Or, if it will be your turn on the alter, and used as the key to open the portal to launch the attack against the Hitlerverse. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 2:46:47 AM EDT
[#28]
^ Well this got more fun
ETA: Holy fuck. I read pages 44-47 and I can't stop laughing. I'm starting from the beginning when I get to a different location at work. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 2:50:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Not to sure why someone would want a longer, heavier, lower capacity, harsher recoiling weapon for home defense, especially one that needs to be manually charged after each shot. I guess it makes sense if you were in a commie state.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 3:20:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryTake a shot every time one of these is used in a ARvsShotgun thread... Ultimate drinking game. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 3:24:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THE THINGS I LEARNED ON ARFCOM: All AK's belong in the trash 1911's are inaccurate, jam and are obsolete ( todays polymer mass consumer wonder nines with shitty triggers are far better) 
FALS suck H&K 91's suck AR's are the shit 9mm is all the round you need with todays ammo and far superior to the .45 ACP the .40 cal is worse than my ex red headed junkie stepchild Glocks are perfection ( even with a shitty grip angle)
Shotguns are also obsolete and not suited for home defense due to multiple assailants in a common home invasion scenario where there are mass hoard's of evildoers coming to rape your male Floridian pit-bull.
Have you learned nothing about Trannies? pirates? How Glock 17 is the answer? CAS? The F35? Chili? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 3:59:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you learned nothing about Trannies? pirates? How Glock 17 is the answer? CAS? The F35? Chili? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
THE THINGS I LEARNED ON ARFCOM: All AK's belong in the trash 1911's are inaccurate, jam and are obsolete ( todays polymer mass consumer wonder nines with shitty triggers are far better)
FALS suck H&K 91's suck AR's are the shit 9mm is all the round you need with todays ammo and far superior to the .45 ACP the .40 cal is worse than my ex red headed junkie stepchild Glocks are perfection ( even with a shitty grip angle)
Shotguns are also obsolete and not suited for home defense due to multiple assailants in a common home invasion scenario where there are mass hoard's of evildoers coming to rape your male Floridian pit-bull.
Have you learned nothing about Trannies? pirates? How Glock 17 is the answer? CAS? The F35? Chili? Actually, the G19 is the darling of Arfcom. I can't say I blame them. It is a solid choice in a good carry size. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 4:26:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Disclaimer. Ive never been to Cola Wars, i think its cool. Keep everything you have.
Add a kill house. Have guys walking through with an AR 15 or a shot gun. Shoot targets. Have a the participant lying in a bed, he then has to get up and shoot targets he isnt familar with. The Shotgun vs Ar will be solved. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 4:39:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Disclaimer. Ive never been to Cola Wars, i think its cool. Keep everything you have. Add a kill house. Have guys walking through with an AR 15 or a shot gun. Shoot targets. Have a the participant lying in a bed, he then has to get up and shoot targets he isnt familar with. The Shotgun vs Ar will be solved. That's crazy talk. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 4:51:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Just talk english slick! The shotgun has kept people safe and it has worked for a few years.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 6:00:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Disclaimer. Ive never been to Cola Wars, i think its cool. Keep everything you have. Add a kill house. Have guys walking through with an AR 15 or a shot gun. Shoot targets. Have a the participant lying in a bed, he then has to get up and shoot targets he isnt familar with. The Shotgun vs Ar will be solved. Hot brass all bouncing off the walls and tickling their nipples...stop it! |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:05:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We already did this one. It was 58 goddamn pages long and answers every question you have, covers every opinion out there and will teach you shit about your feet that you didn't know existed. Delve deep into wisdom. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:08:34 AM EDT
[#38]
TLDR
If you aren't breaching or bird hunting a rifle does everything better. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:22:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Your post is new and innovative.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:29:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same turds with the same shitty smell in each one of these AR vs shotgun threads. It makes GD smell like an outhouse every time one comes up..... But this one will be different.................this thread will offer new information...........this thread will shed new light.................l 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:37:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With #1 buckshot, you get 150 pellets in a mag + 1 + ghost-loaded. 150 pellets in 10 rounds that can be emptied in a few seconds. No subgun or AR will ever match that kind of firepower. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 7:53:54 AM EDT
[#42]
Why do so many people worry about what other people are shooting?
Choose a gun, choose a load, seek training and practice. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:12:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just talk english slick! The shotgun has kept people safe and it has worked for a few years. Of course it has. Shotguns have have a long track record of being used in successful home defense situations. There is no doubt here that a rifle is a better platform, but a shotgun seems to be pretty damn adequate based on history. I have challenged people in these threads before to present one example... just one mind you... of a real life incident where home defense failed because a properly set up shotgun ran dry on ammo. There is fantasy and fallacy on both sides of the shotgun vs. carbine debate. In the end, one does not kill people "deader" than the other. It's a stupid argument along the lines of "Which is a better grocery getter- a Ford Pinto or a Chevy Corvette?" |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:13:38 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the world thought like I did, it would be a better place. If the world thought like you did, we would all live in a shitty state because it has "nice weather" and "I have a good job"
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:13:57 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do so many people worry about what other people are shooting? Choose a gun, choose a load, seek training and practice. Because they must think what they prefer is the best, it makes them so much superior to everyone else. 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:17:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So (forget how I said the Ar IS effective) because I am effective at in close distances with the shotgun my appraisal is solely because of 1980s action movies I have seen? If I can't beat a carload of guys (like a carload of guys is going to try to break in around here, but for academics sake lets say they are) at night trying to get upstairs with my primary 590 and the wife holed up, calling 911 and backing me up covering my rear, then no matter what I got I'm finished anyhow. And there it is. Love it when the shotdung acolytes insist on scenarios A, B and C (that they coincidentally conjured up and just so happen to support their assertions) are totally reasonable and exactly how any situation will unfold. Then someone else suggests a different scenario, that happens to challenge their notions slightly, and it's all OMGERHMAGERD THAT IS INSANE IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN WHY WOULD I LIVE IN A WARZONE WARGOBBLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!1!!!!1!!!1 For the 87th billionth time. A shotgun will work for home defense. It's been killing people dead for a long, long time. An AR will work mo betta. It's really that simple. I'm not sure why it's so challenging for some to accept it. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:17:55 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With #1 buckshot, you get 150 pellets in a mag + 1 + ghost-loaded. 150 pellets in 10 rounds that can be emptied in a few seconds. No subgun or AR will ever match that kind of firepower. http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=74183&prev=1 Am so stealing this..... |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:18:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Wait, I can't just "rack" the shotgun and shoot 2 in the air to scare them off?
Joking aside: Sure. A shotgun will work, and work well, but why wouldn't you want the best option available to you in that situation, which would be the AR15? |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:20:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same turds with the same shitty smell in each one of these AR vs shotgun threads. It makes GD smell like an outhouse every time one comes up..... 
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:05:24 AM EDT
[#50]
I see a bunch of trailer trash in here.
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