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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:02:11 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GTFOH with all that 50 YO white guy shit I love Arfcom not just for the insights like the quoted post, but also this shit. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:03:40 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the fact they chose wireless thats  IMHO. Game controllers are actually very robust and can take hundreds/thousands of hours of abuse. They even survive being thrown across the room multiple times...For all I know, they could have had multiple or a G310 as a backup. There's scant details about redundancy in this thing, other than there was some attempt at it. Lord knows how well designed that redundancy is. At any rate, it wasn't the only interface they could use to control the vehicle and loss of use of the controller would probably be a minor problem. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:03:48 PM EST
[#3]
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:04:37 PM EST
[#4]
I don't know shit about subs, but at this moment, I'm really proud to be a 50's yr old white guy.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:05:28 PM EST
[#5]
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:06:40 PM EST
[#6]
Anyone know the clip of the former sub guy being blunt about rescue? I think it was a CNN piece. A former deep submersible operator responded to a question about rescue being feasible and he responded with a blunt 'no'. He was talking about a 'community of experts' that had sent a cautionary letter to the Oceangate company. I am trying to figure out what the group or community of experts are.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:07:42 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ahh. Good old class envy.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What percentage of the Explorers Club have annual salary/earnings less than $250,000? How about less than $100,000? Ahh. Good old class envy. How about some facts? And please post your explorers membership card. They wouldn’t even let most of the people in this forum in their Manhattan club doors. Actually probably none of you filthy gun owners. Do people who just go camping and hiking need to be in the Explorers Club? Or is it a place where the very wealthy go to one up each other or their “extreme” expeditions (where they hardly broke a sweat climbing some peak) You people love to project. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:08:15 PM EST
[#8]
I wonder how everybody with ticket's to elon's tourist trip around the moon is feeling right about now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DearMoon_project |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:08:38 PM EST
[#9]
Keep checking back hoping for some good news.
 That's s terrible way to die. Freezing stuffed into a small space with 4 other people while you slowly die from lack of oxygen.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:09:08 PM EST
[#10]
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:09:16 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am starting to realize who ever designed this thing, has zero experience with subs or marine architecture/engineering at all I'll allow myself a bit of criticism here: It's worse than that. The designers have never even been bass fishing. Had they been even once they'd understand that anything that can snag, will snag, and they would have done a lot of things differently with all the wires and stuff hanging off the outside of the sub. If I was building such a thing, I'd have a proper pressure hull and a second exoskeleton type hull outside of it to encase all the wires and pipes and whatnot that are hanging off of that thing. I can't count the times I've lost fishing lures on stumps or hung tractor/implement parts - especially sprayer boom parts - on brush as I passed by it. Anything that can get hung, eventually will. Whether inside a wreck at 13000' depth or by a passing fishing net scrap at 100'. If I left my house right now with that much stuff hanging off the sides of my tractor I'd expect to leave some of it laying in the field within two hours. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:10:03 PM EST
[#12]
Even if they find them before the air runs out. There isn't time to figure out how to bring up the sub before they die. This is a recovery mission at best.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:11:01 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the sub lost power, would that mean the CO2 scrubber would stop working? Yes, they would. We also pack lung powered scrubbers, which are sorta like a gas mask with a canister of CO2 absorbent in it. Instead of fans moving the atmosphere through the absorbent, the act of inhaling and exhaling powers the movement. Those are a relatively short term backup, tho you could refill them from any unused canisters if need be. ETA: SodaSorb and Sofnolime require gas flow through the canister. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:11:51 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My money is on the sub being nothing more than scattered carbon composite remnants and two titanium bowls sunk into the muck with the occupants long since deceased. I would love to be wrong though and still hope for a successful rescue. On another note, I lived in St. John's, Newfoundland for about 18 months while working on offshore drilling rigs off their coast. My then GF, now wife lived there for about 5 years and also worked offshore. We met on a rig during an abandon ship drill. Newfoundland will always have a special place in our hearts. It is incredibly cool to see the resources coming together to attempt a rescue despite the long odds. It's been years since I worked in the oilfield, but the equipment is unbelievably cool. It almost makes me wish I was still living in that world. A pic of me offshore Newfoundland taken many years ago. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/95497/FDF571DF-4C43-4CDC-B4A4-6881871E14C1_jpe-2859260.JPG This might be the craziest thing posted in the thread 
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:13:54 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if they find them before the air runs out. There isn't time to figure out how to bring up the sub before they die. This is a recovery mission at best. Drop a few grappling hooks on a rope. There's enough shit on that sub to snag and pull it up by. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:14:13 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll allow myself a bit of criticism here: It's worse than that. The designers have never even been bass fishing. Had they been even once they'd understand that anything that can snag, will snag, and they would have done a lot of things differently with all the wires and stuff hanging off the outside of the sub. If I was building such a thing, I'd have a proper pressure hull and a second exoskeleton type hull outside of it to encase all the wires and pipes and whatnot that are hanging off of that thing. I can't count the times I've lost fishing lures on stumps or hung tractor/implement parts - especially sprayer boom parts - on brush as I passed by it. Anything that can get hung, eventually will. Whether inside a wreck at 13000' depth or by a passing fishing net scrap at 100'. If I left my house right now with that much stuff hanging off the sides of my tractor I'd expect to leave some of it laying in the field within two hours. I'm in the Marine industry, and all those exposed wires on that "vessel" showed me the quality of that build..... |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:15:15 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This might be the craziest thing posted in the thread Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My money is on the sub being nothing more than scattered carbon composite remnants and two titanium bowls sunk into the muck with the occupants long since deceased. I would love to be wrong though and still hope for a successful rescue. On another note, I lived in St. John's, Newfoundland for about 18 months while working on offshore drilling rigs off their coast. My then GF, now wife lived there for about 5 years and also worked offshore. We met on a rig during an abandon ship drill. Newfoundland will always have a special place in our hearts. It is incredibly cool to see the resources coming together to attempt a rescue despite the long odds. It's been years since I worked in the oilfield, but the equipment is unbelievably cool. It almost makes me wish I was still living in that world. A pic of me offshore Newfoundland taken many years ago. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/95497/FDF571DF-4C43-4CDC-B4A4-6881871E14C1_jpe-2859260.JPG This might be the craziest thing posted in the thread 
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:15:52 PM EST
[#18]
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:17:33 PM EST
[#19]
There may be one manned submersible that can go to the Titanic. It would be interesting to see a high level comparison of that submersible and the Titan.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:17:47 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Part of a father's duty is to ensure the safety of his children. I couldnt imagine being the person responsible for agreeing to take him to his tomb. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I didn't say that. I'm not defending their company. I'm defending what's left of their lives, and the rescue efforts. You people here jumped straight from the sub being lost to mocking their deaths and, best we know based on available data, they aren't even dead yet. It's pretty disgusting, and, honestly, given that, I'm comforted that you are upset with me. I'd be worried if you thought my views were OK. Because your are pretty terrible. The owner of the company may well be a SOB, but there's other people down there whose only crime is in having what people here see as an envious amount of discretionary income and a sense of adventure. Part of a father's duty is to ensure the safety of his children. I couldnt imagine being the person responsible for agreeing to take him to his tomb. The guy’s main sin is not being knowledgeable enough about submersible design (not many people like that, and not everyone is a mechanical engineer) , and maybe naive thinking this owner was 100% competent and well intentioned. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:19:59 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An 80% positive rating for a piece of equipment that is critical to running your sub is pretty dumb. I would never use a piece of gear for something critical that was not 100% effective or reliable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My son-an IT guy- just sent me this review of that controller. 1 more WTF about this whole thing. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/72476/image000000__1__png-2859008.JPG Yeah, but that controller also has 4200+ reviews on Amazon, 79% of them 4 or 5, for an average of 4.2. I don't have experience with the G710 specifically, but I DO have a G310 and was looking hard at the G710 for a Retropie setup. I ended up cheaping out and bought a second-hand PS3 Sixaxis. The G710 has a solid reputation and wasn't the ONLY method of controlling the sub's movement. I would never use a piece of gear for something critical that was not 100% effective or reliable. You DO realize it's not "critical", right? It's probably better than a touchscreen for making fine adjustments, but the failure of the gamepad is way down the list of things that likely put them in the position they're in. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:20:00 PM EST
[#22]
Frankly it's a miracle that wish.com sub ever made it to the Titanic once, let alone 4 times.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:20:02 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about some facts? And please post your explorers membership card. They wouldn’t even let most of the people in this forum in their Manhattan club doors. The post I quoted reeked of class envy. I'm not a member. I'm much more of a 'picnics and blue jeans and buckets of beer' type. I just don't envy the rich. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:22:02 PM EST
[#24]
[Deleted]
Lets not try and derail this thread with comments like that. <<Striker>> |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:22:23 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question. Can it do an emergency blow and shoot directly to the surface like in the movied Red October? Or would that cause problems with the rapid pressure change to the hull? |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:22:57 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And it gets worse https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61337/1687368780445324_jpg-2859292.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meaning dude doesn't like to be told of the risks, realities and possibilities involved, and he wants a bunch of "yesmen" that go along with his narcissism. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61337/1687368780445324_jpg-2859292.JPG What an uninspiring white guy. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:24:26 PM EST
[#27]
Quoted: There may be one manned submersible that can go to the Titanic. It would be interesting to see a high level comparison of that submersible and the Titan. There's actually a handful that are more than capable. Why he didn't just buy one of several Triton models and sell seats is beyond me. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:25:10 PM EST
[#28]
Just caught a blurb about 30 min old on the Fox news FB saying they picked up more "noises" in the search
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:25:24 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think if I was considering spending $250K and trusting my life with this company, under such extrememly dangerous conditions, I'd at least run some google searches and find this: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23854184-oceangate-v-david-lochridge Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have zero evidence anyone was "tricked" about anything. To me the evidence suggests strongly that the people on board (with the exception of the kid) were experienced adventure seekers and risk takers who knew what they were getting into. They waited YEARS for this trip, and had ample opportunity to back out, as we saw the one guy did. Clearly the company took risks, and may or may not have been negligent but that is another discussion. I don't think anyone was duped into going in that sub. That being said, I am fervently hoping and praying they are rescued. I think if I was considering spending $250K and trusting my life with this company, under such extrememly dangerous conditions, I'd at least run some google searches and find this: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23854184-oceangate-v-david-lochridge |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:25:48 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about some facts? And please post your explorers membership card. They wouldn’t even let most of the people in this forum in their Manhattan club doors. Actually probably none of you filthy gun owners. Do people who just go camping and hiking need to be in the Explorers Club? Or is it a place where the very wealthy go to one up each other or their “extreme” expeditions (where they hardly broke a sweat climbing some peak) You people love to project. Lol. Dues are only $1450 for a casual membership and they only charge $50 if you are a poor. Not to mention their diversity dues waiver program. A mid tier tennis club costs more. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:26:22 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do aircraft fuselages fail? At the edges and the joints. The stress paths. Whatever happened probably happened at the interface of the composite hull and the titanium ring the caps fitted to. My guess is somebody is already modeling it computationally, and will establish a good guess at the mode of failure. Then they can - if cost permits - recreate it and dynamically test it. It'll give all the answers. Of course all of this should have already been done before the fucking thing got a drop of water on it. Not a chance, man. They used top-tier glue, with like, buckets...and spatulas. https://youtu.be/4dka29FSZac?t=240 |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:26:25 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And everyone laughed at me when I said years ago, we should train dolphin for deepwater SAR. Who;s l;aughing now! You should have advocated for rescue squid |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:26:46 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryWell, I guess this could not happen to a better person then, enjoy the last hours of oxygen. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:26:49 PM EST
[#34]
Quote History I'm going to hell. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:27:38 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a limitation to how fast it can be winched up? And if it can be winched up in a level orientation. If they can only lift from one end any survivors left will suffocate unless you draw the lucky straw and are on top of the pile. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:28:01 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep checking back hoping for some good news. That's s terrible way to die. Freezing stuffed into a small space with 4 other people while you slowly die from lack of oxygen.Oh please, there's fall worse than falling asleep! I mean, that's not my choice of ways to die... but drowning in darkness due to a hull leak would be worse! |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:28:26 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would all of that cabling not be run through conduit securely attached to the hull? Stupid. Diversity |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:28:35 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to hell. Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to hell. "I'm all out of air. I'm so lost without you...." |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:30:04 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how everybody with ticket's to elon's tourist trip around the moon is feeling right about now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DearMoon_project They've done a dozen manned missions by now. Dearmoon is ambitious, but its not this level of stupidity. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:30:12 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "I'm all out of air. I'm so lost without you...." Can't get that stupid song outta my head now
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:30:29 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about some facts? And please post your explorers membership card. They wouldn’t even let most of the people in this forum in their Manhattan club doors. Actually probably none of you filthy gun owners. Do people who just go camping and hiking need to be in the Explorers Club? Or is it a place where the very wealthy go to one up each other or their “extreme” expeditions (where they hardly broke a sweat climbing some peak) You people love to project. Seems like an outfit that’s exclusive but not that kind of exclusive. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:31:23 PM EST
[#42]
I wonder what beating on carbon fiber with metal at 6000 psi does to it..........
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:32:21 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to hell. How can someone sink so low? |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:32:36 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If something critical breaks, I can usually call AAA for a tow to the mechanic... Extremely hazardous environment operations are different. Even general aviation is filled with checklists, certification processes for parts and procedures, multiple independently redundant systems if they're critical to maintaining flight. Just a publicly-expressed attitude by the CEO that has no place in these kinds of activities. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the insight.....judging from what his old employee said, I think you're right. I also can't stop thinking about this quote from the CEO: On the safety of his missions more generally, he said: "I don't think it's very dangerous. If you look at submersible activity over the last three decades, there hasn't even been a major injury, let alone a fatality. What worries us is not once you're underwater. "What worries me is when I'm getting you there, when you're on the ship in icy states with big doors that can crush your hands and people who may not have the best balance who fall down, bang their head. That's, to me, the dangerous part." Perhaps most revealingly of all, he added: "You know, at some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed. Don't get in your car. Don't do anything." Hubris is a bitch. I get in my vehicle everyday, I also wear a seatbelt. If something critical breaks, I can usually call AAA for a tow to the mechanic... Extremely hazardous environment operations are different. Even general aviation is filled with checklists, certification processes for parts and procedures, multiple independently redundant systems if they're critical to maintaining flight. Just a publicly-expressed attitude by the CEO that has no place in these kinds of activities. I agree. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:32:40 PM EST
[#45]
How old is the son who is on board? That's the most tragic part of the story.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:33:37 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh please, there's fall worse than falling asleep! I mean, that's not my choice of ways to die... but drowning in darkness due to a hull leak would be worse! |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:35:13 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder what beating on carbon fiber with metal at 6000 psi does to it.......... Most likely the titanium end caps. The extreme pressure would be pushing the end caps into the 5" thick carbon sleeve so banging on the titanium end caps wouldn't effect anything. I hope.
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:36:34 PM EST
[#48]
That dude naming this PoS "The Titan" is about as bad as every girl who's parents named them after an expensive car.
Have you ever met a Porche or Mercedes that didn't look like she'd fit into any Jerry Springer episode? Dude should have named this sub The Guppie. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:36:44 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just caught a blurb about 30 min old on the Fox news FB saying they picked up more "noises" in the search Whale farts don't count. The media is trying to keep the hopes of the families going. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 1:37:31 PM EST
[#50]
Could a form of hot tapping work in a case like this? It's backwards with the pressure being outside.
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