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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:37:15 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:38:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Campbell’s new Chunky Tomato soup.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:40:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the captain CEO of that woke jalopy was going to win the prize for most ignorant dumb fuck totally out of his league… Then Dan Crenshaw comes along and steals the title away from him. Sad.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:41:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Online calculators give about 2558 degrees C or 4634 degrees F. Ok, someone check my math because I’m not getting nearly as high a temp as expected when I run it manually. There’s got to be a simple error I’m making, but I don’t get 2558 degrees from this. P1*V1/T1=P2*V2/T2 Final temp would be T2= (T1*P2*V2)/(P1*V1) Assumptions: T1 = 10 degrees C (50 Fahrenheit) V1 = 40 cubic meters (published size roughly 7x2.5x2.5) P1 = 1 atmosphere V2 = 1 cubic meter just to use an easy number. P2 = 400 atmospheres. T2 = (10 * 400 * 1)/(1 * 40) That only gives me 100 degrees C. Maybe I should be using a different equation scribbling delta V and P. Don’t have time to rerun it now. Temp units. Try it using kelvin. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:42:21 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:44:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Front fell off........
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:46:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given the construction of the sub w/o a conning tower, opening the forward hatch would likely flood the sub, and possibly sink it. One might think an inner titanium bulkhead or two might have sufficiently reinforced the carbon portion of the hull - if it wasn't the unspec'd porthole that failed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:
I don't think anyone replying there could understand there might have been a scenario where an "emergency latch" would have been usefull... In case they were bobbing on the surface would be my guess. Given the construction of the sub w/o a conning tower, opening the forward hatch would likely flood the sub, and possibly sink it. One might think an inner titanium bulkhead or two might have sufficiently reinforced the carbon portion of the hull - if it wasn't the unspec'd porthole that failed. After you pop the hatch, you use those sweet walmart seats as flotation to bob to the surface as the sub goes down. Then, your EPIRB calls in the cavalry. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:46:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [b]Quoted: My guess is the bond between the titanium ring that was GLUED to the carbon fiber hull failed. The idiot ceo even said "no one has ever done titanium and carbon fiber" Yeah, I'm no expert, but I think you want weld to hold it together, not glue. Of course that would mean no carbon fiber hull.  I dont think that's accurate, unless its only a partial wuote, about the "no one has ever done a titanium and carbon fiber" Maybe what was left out "hull on a submersible ". Because I am pretty sure titanium and carbon fiber composites are common on modern airplanes and maybe even stuff like F1 cars. Its an advantage titanium has over aluminum in CF composites. aluminum and CF , maybe because of the resins (?) has some dangerous corrosion that occurs, and I think can cause the part to delaminate. Or maybe all just part of his hype and schtick for bringing in mega wealthy people to take a ride for $250,000, for their own bragging rights. Like moths to a bug zapper. How would most know of such things? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:48:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Temp units. Try it using kelvin. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Online calculators give about 2558 degrees C or 4634 degrees F. Ok, someone check my math because I’m not getting nearly as high a temp as expected when I run it manually. There’s got to be a simple error I’m making, but I don’t get 2558 degrees from this. P1*V1/T1=P2*V2/T2 Final temp would be T2= (T1*P2*V2)/(P1*V1) Assumptions: T1 = 10 degrees C (50 Fahrenheit) V1 = 40 cubic meters (published size roughly 7x2.5x2.5) P1 = 1 atmosphere V2 = 1 cubic meter just to use an easy number. P2 = 400 atmospheres. T2 = (10 * 400 * 1)/(1 * 40) That only gives me 100 degrees C. Maybe I should be using a different equation scribbling delta V and P. Don’t have time to rerun it now. Temp units. Try it using kelvin. Ah, thanks.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:51:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont think that's accurate, unless its only a partial wuote, about the "no one has ever done a titanium and carbon fiber" Maybe what was left out "hull on a submersible ". Because I am pretty sure titanium and carbon fiber composites are common on modern airplanes and maybe even stuff like F1 cars. Its an advantage titanium has over aluminum in CF composites. aluminum and CF , maybe because of the resins (?) has some dangerous corrosion that occurs, and I think can cause the part to delaminate. Or maybe all just part of his hype and schtick for bringing in mega wealthy people to take a ride for $250,000, for their own bragging rights. Like moths to a bug zapper. How would most know of such things? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: [b]Quoted: My guess is the bond between the titanium ring that was GLUED to the carbon fiber hull failed. The idiot ceo even said "no one has ever done titanium and carbon fiber" Yeah, I'm no expert, but I think you want weld to hold it together, not glue. Of course that would mean no carbon fiber hull. I dont think that's accurate, unless its only a partial wuote, about the "no one has ever done a titanium and carbon fiber" Maybe what was left out "hull on a submersible ". Because I am pretty sure titanium and carbon fiber composites are common on modern airplanes and maybe even stuff like F1 cars. Its an advantage titanium has over aluminum in CF composites. aluminum and CF , maybe because of the resins (?) has some dangerous corrosion that occurs, and I think can cause the part to delaminate. Or maybe all just part of his hype and schtick for bringing in mega wealthy people to take a ride for $250,000, for their own bragging rights. Like moths to a bug zapper. How would most know of such things? I’m not an engineer… but it seems like choice of materials might have been based on what sounds futuristic and advanced and cool, rather than what sounds like a proven concept that actually works. Was that for genuine attempts at scientific advancement, advertising purposes, or just a dipshit in charge that was so woke inspired he said “titanium and carbon fiber are sooo cool, let’s build it with that”? With some understanding of the concepts involved… that just doesn’t seem like it would be a good way to build such a vessel. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:56:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont think that's accurate, unless its only a partial wuote, about the "no one has ever done a titanium and carbon fiber" Maybe what was left out "hull on a submersible ". Because I am pretty sure titanium and carbon fiber composites are common on modern airplanes and maybe even stuff like F1 cars. Its an advantage titanium has over aluminum in CF composites. aluminum and CF , maybe because of the resins (?) has some dangerous corrosion that occurs, and I think can cause the part to delaminate. Or maybe all just part of his hype and schtick for bringing in mega wealthy people to take a ride for $250,000, for their own bragging rights. Like moths to a bug zapper. How would most know of such things? I was assuming that's what he meant. We bond ti to c/e all day long everyday, and with pretty damn good track record. Aluminum and c/e makes a battery and the corrosion will fuck it up. I've been working with the stuff for most of my career but I have to admit the thickness of that "pressure vessel" has got me thinking. I remember reading somewhere that the thing couldn't be non-destructively tested to ensure it didn't have any fatal flaws and I'm assuming that's due to the thickness. That's really the starting point from which every design I've ever been involved with hinges on -detectable flaw size. You establish that, then you compile your allowable strains based on the assumption those flaws are present. I don't know. I guess I'm not privy to any of the design data on that except second/third/whatever hand that we get through modern media. Easy to make assumptions and throw rocks...but there's really no info out there indicating this was anything other than a total shitshow. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:56:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not an engineer… but it seems like choice of materials might have been based on what sounds futuristic and advanced and cool, rather than what sounds like a proven concept that actually works. Was that for genuine attempts at scientific advancement, advertising purposes, or just a dipshit in charge that was so woke inspired he said “titanium and carbon fiber are sooo cool, let’s build it with that”? With some understanding of the concepts involved… that just doesn’t seem like it would be a good way to build such a vessel. And if you were the employee that called him out on that, you'd get your walking papers. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:56:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you glued it, you'd want to machine a groove into the titanium wide and deep enough to slide the CF into it after gluing, then glue and wrap more CF outside of that area well into the TI overlapping quite a ways to try and prevent the two dis-similar material from separating from each other. Even a pinhole or tiny delamination at those pressures would be enough to cause a catastrophic event. I'd also X ray it like you would a weld on a pressure containing vessel [or pipe] to make sure there were NO voids whatsoever. When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? It wouldn't surprise me if they didnt do that. Not an inspired expense ? There was a clip of the joining of the ring. I thought I did see some sort of channel milled into the titanium ring? The whole thing driven by cost, surprised he sprung for the Commercially Pure titanium for the domes. It wouldn't have been that difficult for such a small submersible to have been 100% ti. There are lots of fab shops that specialize in Ti and make things like chemical reactor vessels (same shape), and there is at least one company I know of in eastern OH near Salem that has a pretty big vacuum chamber for doing electron beam welding on titanium assemblies. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:57:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone on Reddit pointed out this sub had been in a collision - driven into a rock - which may be significant. You should not ground a fibreglass fin-keeler, and you should not ground a CF submarine for the same reason.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOjJJKld6jYThat's a customer driving... WTF....no way they are that arrogant that they went ahead without testing fater the wreck |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:59:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? When my wife does this sort of shit, granted on a hobby scale, she uses a vacuum chamber to help suck all the bubbles out. Interestingly enough, the vacuum pump for hers looks identical to the one harbor freight sells for servicing your car's AC system. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:59:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More mass means you need stronger thrusters, which mean more batteries. More mass means you don't ascend as easily. More mass could make launching and reuniting with the mothership more difficult. Apparently the only time more mass is really helpful is if you are being pursued by Midcap. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I really don't understand the obsession they had with using the CF and Titanium....they were going to space, weight was the last thing you would need to consider when going to the bottom of the ocean. Matter of fact, it being heavy would help lol More mass means you need stronger thrusters, which mean more batteries. More mass means you don't ascend as easily. More mass could make launching and reuniting with the mothership more difficult. Apparently the only time more mass is really helpful is if you are being pursued by Midcap. Well...looks like more mass would have indeed helped them this go round now wouldn't it |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:00:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dammit I just found out Gordon Lightfoot died May 1st of this year so now whose going to do a song?  |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:01:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? It wouldn't surprise me if they didnt do that. Not an inspired expense ? There was a clip of the joining of the ring. I thought I did see some sort of channel milled into the titanium ring? The whole thing driven by cost, surprised he sprung for the Commercially Pure titanium for the domes. It wouldn't have been that difficult for such a small submersible to have been 100% ti. There are lots of fab shops that specialize in Ti and make things like chemical reactor vessels (same shape), and there is at least one company I know of in eastern OH near Salem that has a pretty big vacuum chamber for doing electron beam welding on titanium assemblies. I’m not a material scientist, I’m sure someone here is, but the epoxy used to connect the CF to the TI ring would be suspect IMO. I’m not aware of any adhesive that could survive that type of pressure change over and over. The lack of testing that we know of tells me they took a lot of “on paper” specs and decided good enough. The TI domes were likely the best built components on that craft. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:02:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Piling on, any corporate officers are likely checking on their E&O insurance and counsel about same. Might not be a bad idea to talk to federal criminal defense counsel too, as much ink and work that this tragedy has caused. Any PE's who stamped the plans for their vessels, might also be in for a bad time, I dunno. I wonder what kind of corporate insurance their company had, what its policy limits and stated exclusions are? Vengeful families of billionaires can hire a whole lot of lawyers. I would be very surprised if they had a PE sign off on vessel plans. That practice wouldn’t follow their MO. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:02:38 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:04:07 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:04:20 PM EDT
[#22]
ok ok...it was savage
 Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:04:42 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:05:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Also WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU BUILD THE SUB OUT OF CARBON FIBER?
Carbon Fiber is for make strong... LIGHTWEIGHT materials. Like race cars. And PLANES. WHO CARES HOW HEAVY A SUBMARINE IS. Its not like they're going to race the fuckers on the bottom around the shipwreck. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:06:07 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When my wife does this sort of shit, granted on a hobby scale, she uses a vacuum chamber to help suck all the bubbles out. Interestingly enough, the vacuum pump for hers looks identical to the one harbor freight sells for servicing your car's AC system. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? When my wife does this sort of shit, granted on a hobby scale, she uses a vacuum chamber to help suck all the bubbles out. Interestingly enough, the vacuum pump for hers looks identical to the one harbor freight sells for servicing your car's AC system. I'd love to know how that thing was built. I'd expect to see it tape laid on a plug type tool, bagged and cured in an autoclave. I've never dealt with anything close to approaching the thickness they were dealing with though. I would expect a shitload of porosity if it were built and cured using the methods I'm familiar with. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:08:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd love to know how that thing was built. I'd expect to see it tape laid on a plug type tool, bagged and cured in an autoclave. I've never dealt with anything close to approaching the thickness they were dealing with though. I would expect a shitload of porosity if it were built and cured using the methods I'm familiar with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? When my wife does this sort of shit, granted on a hobby scale, she uses a vacuum chamber to help suck all the bubbles out. Interestingly enough, the vacuum pump for hers looks identical to the one harbor freight sells for servicing your car's AC system. I'd love to know how that thing was built. I'd expect to see it tape laid on a plug type tool, bagged and cured in an autoclave. I've never dealt with anything close to approaching the thickness they were dealing with though. I would expect a shitload of porosity if it were built and cured using the methods I'm familiar with. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:10:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryF me I laughed so hard I nearly sharted. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:17:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It spent a week curing in an autoclave. Would make sense. I remember hearing about some of the issues they had with the 787 just due to the thicknesses they weren’t used to dealing with. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:19:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fused quartz was used on the first bathysphere in the '30s. Acrylic is used nowadays. FOr greater depths I would assume, from an engineering standpoint that a flat sheet woudl be the LAST choice. More likely a slightly curved shape with a flat inner edge and a circular circumference with a tapered edge such that increasing external pressure more greatly forces it into the gasket surface. Wonder how transparent aluminum compares to acrylic or polycarbonate. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:21:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU BUILD THE SUB OUT OF CARBON FIBER? Carbon Fiber is for make strong... LIGHTWEIGHT materials. Like race cars. And PLANES. WHO CARES HOW HEAVY A SUBMARINE IS. Its not like they're going to race the fuckers on the bottom around the shipwreck. You HAD to bring the Spanish into this thread. Now they're gonna claim the wreck. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:22:09 PM EDT
[#31]
What page was the CBS interview with the CEO on? Can’t find it.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:25:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU BUILD THE SUB OUT OF CARBON FIBER? Carbon Fiber is for make strong... LIGHTWEIGHT materials. Like race cars. And PLANES. WHO CARES HOW HEAVY A SUBMARINE IS. Its not like they're going to race the fuckers on the bottom around the shipwreck. Pretty sure people who understand how buoyancy works care about how heavy any seaborne craft is -- submarines/submersibles included. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:26:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s on them to do their own research. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: FFS, those people went willingly. They all knew the risks. So you're telling me that the average person, let alone the average 19yo, understands submersible construction and standards? Seems like a stretch to me. ETA: there was a news reporter asking about recovering the bodies at the USCG conference. That should tell you all you need to know about the average person's understanding of this subject. It’s on them to do their own research. Their history is it made the trip before. They had aborted dives though , that may give a sense of caution. The owner was going with on this dive. Smart people buy the sales pitch sometimes. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:28:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure people who understand how buoyancy works care about how heavy any seaborne craft is -- submarines/submersibles included. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Also WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU BUILD THE SUB OUT OF CARBON FIBER? Carbon Fiber is for make strong... LIGHTWEIGHT materials. Like race cars. And PLANES. WHO CARES HOW HEAVY A SUBMARINE IS. Its not like they're going to race the fuckers on the bottom around the shipwreck. Pretty sure people who understand how buoyancy works care about how heavy any seaborne craft is -- submarines/submersibles included. That seems like a bigger issue once submerged. Prior to the dive… just strap some extra sealed tanks full of gasoline to it. Pretty cheap to add buoyancy that way. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:30:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryThat don't even make a lick of sense |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:30:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know anything about the system, but I suspect a computer would send an alert that there has been an “event.” So, the techs are listening to this, looking at the wavy stuff on the computer, trying to figure out what it is… I mean, carbon fiber imploding isn’t the same as a steel submarine or ship sinking, so they are doing the “wtf.” Then either the mothership phones the USCG/USN or someone sees this on the news and goes “holy shit.” I’m sure they told someone, who called someone, etc, and it finally got to the SAR commander. But, again I don’t know shit, I suspect active sonar or whatever these big ships use, are a helluva lot more accurate than a bunch of microphones laying around the bottom of the ocean, what with the temps and currents and what not. I mean, they apparently found it pretty quick with the ROV. I’d like to see some photos/videos to be honest. I’m sure some lawyer somewhere is making phone calls to the USN/USCG saying they want this crap brought up because they are going to start charging people with negligent homicide and a bunch of other shit. The DOJ is likely on this right now. If I was on that mothership right now, I wouldn’t be saying shit to anyone. You know the minute that thing pulls in there are going to be government types who want to have a talk, I’d be surprised if they let them off the ship. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US navy knew it imploded the second it happened and told those people as such. ... The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.” That... can't be accurate. Something is getting lost in translation. It's been known that the mothership only reported a problem several hours after loss of communications. The implosion would have occurred WELL before any SAR efforts. I don’t know anything about the system, but I suspect a computer would send an alert that there has been an “event.” So, the techs are listening to this, looking at the wavy stuff on the computer, trying to figure out what it is… I mean, carbon fiber imploding isn’t the same as a steel submarine or ship sinking, so they are doing the “wtf.” Then either the mothership phones the USCG/USN or someone sees this on the news and goes “holy shit.” I’m sure they told someone, who called someone, etc, and it finally got to the SAR commander. But, again I don’t know shit, I suspect active sonar or whatever these big ships use, are a helluva lot more accurate than a bunch of microphones laying around the bottom of the ocean, what with the temps and currents and what not. I mean, they apparently found it pretty quick with the ROV. I’d like to see some photos/videos to be honest. I’m sure some lawyer somewhere is making phone calls to the USN/USCG saying they want this crap brought up because they are going to start charging people with negligent homicide and a bunch of other shit. The DOJ is likely on this right now. If I was on that mothership right now, I wouldn’t be saying shit to anyone. You know the minute that thing pulls in there are going to be government types who want to have a talk, I’d be surprised if they let them off the ship. In the case of Scorpion SOSUS detected the event, but it was not noticed until the sub went missing and they reviewed the recorded data. That’s probably what happened here. The primary purpose of the system is not to detect imploding pressure vessels, but they can go through the data and find it if they have reason to look for one. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:32:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU BUILD THE SUB OUT OF CARBON FIBER? Carbon Fiber is for make strong... LIGHTWEIGHT materials. Like race cars. And PLANES. WHO CARES HOW HEAVY A SUBMARINE IS. Its not like they're going to race the fuckers on the bottom around the shipwreck. I dont think you realize the cost of titanium that it would take to make a sub of the size of Titan. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:36:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Elon Musk slams left-wing fact-checker Snopes after website rated claim his Starlink satellite was partly responsible for Titan submarine disappearance as TRUE
  
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:37:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder how transparent aluminum compares to acrylic or polycarbonate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fused quartz was used on the first bathysphere in the '30s. Acrylic is used nowadays. FOr greater depths I would assume, from an engineering standpoint that a flat sheet woudl be the LAST choice. More likely a slightly curved shape with a flat inner edge and a circular circumference with a tapered edge such that increasing external pressure more greatly forces it into the gasket surface. Wonder how transparent aluminum compares to acrylic or polycarbonate.  Attached FileBut the CEO wouldn't have listened to Scotty anyways. He was a 50 year old White guy. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:39:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And then they exploded. And imploded again and probably exploded once more. By the time the cycle was over there was soup. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think the 2000oF number accomplishes that equally as well.  They would have been flash fried before they were put into the carbon fiber Ninja blender and then pureed by 5600 psi of sea water. All within milliseconds. And then they exploded. And imploded again and probably exploded once more. By the time the cycle was over there was soup. a split second. And the only indication on the surface might be a few air bubbles that pop up like a fart in the bathtub. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:40:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Somewhere there's film of that hatch coming off, and I can't find it! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was reading about bathyspheres and the first one was a cast steel, 1" thick sphere. Even with three tiny windows (one plugged), they still did multiple test dives, and did come into leaks a few times, but the point was, they were doing tests. This little chestnut came up while they were testing: Beebe normally observed the depths through one of the Bathysphere's three windows since the searchlight was shone through the second, and a steel plug had been in place of the third, but this was changed when Barton had the steel plug replaced with a third window in order to film through it. When conducting an unmanned test of the Bathysphere with the third window installed, they found it almost entirely full of water. Realizing the immense pressure that the Bathysphere must be under, Beebe ordered his crew to stand clear and began loosening the hatch's bolts to remove the hatch himself.[2] Beebe described the experience that followed this in his book Half Mile Down: Suddenly, without the slightest warning, the bolt was torn from our hands, and the mass of heavy metal shot across the deck like the shell from a gun. The trajectory was almost straight, and the brass bolt hurtled into the steel winch thirty feet [9.1 m] away across the deck and sheared a half-inch [13 mm] notch gouged out by the harder metal. This was followed by a solid cylinder of water, which slackened after a while into a cataract, pouring out the hole in the door, some air mingled with the water, looking like hot steam, instead of compressed air shooting through ice-cold water.[6] https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67160/Untitled_jpg-2860444.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67160/Bathysphere-Beebe-Barton_jpg-2860445.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67160/bath23_jpg-2860446.JPG This one didn't even go down beyond a half mile. Somewhere there's film of that hatch coming off, and I can't find it! You are correct, I have seen it as well. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:42:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont think you realize the cost of titanium that it would take to make a sub of the size of Titan. What are deep sea subs made of usually? Stainless? I'm curious. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:44:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I would rather raw-dog one of Midcap's rejects wihtout benefit of a condom than voyage in this kluge of a submarine to Titanic's remains. Quoted: You win this thread. Indeed |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:46:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wish he'd been on it. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:47:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? It wouldn't surprise me if they didnt do that. Not an inspired expense ? There was a clip of the joining of the ring. I thought I did see some sort of channel milled into the titanium ring? The whole thing driven by cost, surprised he sprung for the Commercially Pure titanium for the domes. It wouldn't have been that difficult for such a small submersible to have been 100% ti. There are lots of fab shops that specialize in Ti and make things like chemical reactor vessels (same shape), and there is at least one company I know of in eastern OH near Salem that has a pretty big vacuum chamber for doing electron beam welding on titanium assemblies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you glued it, you'd want to machine a groove into the titanium wide and deep enough to slide the CF into it after gluing, then glue and wrap more CF outside of that area well into the TI overlapping quite a ways to try and prevent the two dis-similar material from separating from each other. Even a pinhole or tiny delamination at those pressures would be enough to cause a catastrophic event. I'd also X ray it like you would a weld on a pressure containing vessel [or pipe] to make sure there were NO voids whatsoever. When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? It wouldn't surprise me if they didnt do that. Not an inspired expense ? There was a clip of the joining of the ring. I thought I did see some sort of channel milled into the titanium ring? The whole thing driven by cost, surprised he sprung for the Commercially Pure titanium for the domes. It wouldn't have been that difficult for such a small submersible to have been 100% ti. There are lots of fab shops that specialize in Ti and make things like chemical reactor vessels (same shape), and there is at least one company I know of in eastern OH near Salem that has a pretty big vacuum chamber for doing electron beam welding on titanium assemblies. I'm pretty sure that anything done in the aircraft industry, as well as most high end motorsport applications is done with prepreg CF, rather than an infusion. Even then, there are tight controls on the process to ensure the desired result. I have a friend who works with a major aircraft manufacturer who stated something as simple as using a second clean rag to wipe the excess cleaner off where they had cleaned a piece for bonding made an incredible difference in the joint. That said, I was interested in the small clip I saw posted days ago which showed the CF being made with a pretty straight monodirectional setup. I'm not familiar enough with CF at that scale to judge if it was prepreg or not, but I had concerns about any torsion on the final product due to the way it looked like they were weaving the fabric in the short clip. Frankly, I've seen designs which I would trust much more for real world use in a vehicle applied to driveshaft tubes than what I saw in that brief clip. Even if they changed up the weave pattern at some point in the process, I would be highly concerned about delamination of the various internal layers. Here is a good video showing the construction of a driveshaft. A lot of good points for those who haven't looked into this very much.  How It's Made: Carbon Fiber Driveshafts |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:47:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would be very surprised if they had a PE sign off on vessel plans. That practice wouldn’t follow their MO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Piling on, any corporate officers are likely checking on their E&O insurance and counsel about same. Might not be a bad idea to talk to federal criminal defense counsel too, as much ink and work that this tragedy has caused. Any PE's who stamped the plans for their vessels, might also be in for a bad time, I dunno. I wonder what kind of corporate insurance their company had, what its policy limits and stated exclusions are? Vengeful families of billionaires can hire a whole lot of lawyers. I would be very surprised if they had a PE sign off on vessel plans. That practice wouldn’t follow their MO. I agree! |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:48:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their history is it made the trip before. They had aborted dives though , that may give a sense of caution. The owner was going with on this dive. Smart people buy the sales pitch sometimes. Hell, the French pilot, who most certainly should have known better given his experience, kept on with it. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:50:27 PM EDT
[#48]
 Paul-Henri Nargeolet, 77 - known universally as PH - was part of the first human expedition to visit the Titanic's wreck in 1987, and had visited the site at least 35 times. His family said their hearts were broken over his death. 'He is a man who will be remembered as one of the greatest deep-sea explorers in modern history. When you think of the Titanic and all we know about the ship today, you will think of Paul-Henri Nargeolet and his legendary work. 'But what we will remember him most for is his big heart, his incredible sense of humor and how much he loved his family. We will miss him today and every day for the rest of our lives.' |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:55:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? It wouldn't surprise me if they didnt do that. Not an inspired expense ? There was a clip of the joining of the ring. I thought I did see some sort of channel milled into the titanium ring? The whole thing driven by cost, surprised he sprung for the Commercially Pure titanium for the domes. It wouldn't have been that difficult for such a small submersible to have been 100% ti. There are lots of fab shops that specialize in Ti and make things like chemical reactor vessels (same shape), and there is at least one company I know of in eastern OH near Salem that has a pretty big vacuum chamber for doing electron beam welding on titanium assemblies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you glued it, you'd want to machine a groove into the titanium wide and deep enough to slide the CF into it after gluing, then glue and wrap more CF outside of that area well into the TI overlapping quite a ways to try and prevent the two dis-similar material from separating from each other. Even a pinhole or tiny delamination at those pressures would be enough to cause a catastrophic event. I'd also X ray it like you would a weld on a pressure containing vessel [or pipe] to make sure there were NO voids whatsoever. When they build airplane CF sections, dont these also go into a big autoclave to help the resin cure and maybe even push out little bubbles in the CF? It wouldn't surprise me if they didnt do that. Not an inspired expense ? There was a clip of the joining of the ring. I thought I did see some sort of channel milled into the titanium ring? The whole thing driven by cost, surprised he sprung for the Commercially Pure titanium for the domes. It wouldn't have been that difficult for such a small submersible to have been 100% ti. There are lots of fab shops that specialize in Ti and make things like chemical reactor vessels (same shape), and there is at least one company I know of in eastern OH near Salem that has a pretty big vacuum chamber for doing electron beam welding on titanium assemblies. Yes CF used on aircraft is placed in vacuum chambers for curing. There is very strict quality control standards because the CF used is kept at temperatures below zero degrees. The material has limited time exposure above the freeze temps for fabrication. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:56:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That don't even make a lick of sense Many commenters here say the inside explodes like a fireball. Before the water takes over of course. |
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