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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:50:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...the teens dad was Pakistani, what does that have to do with hating America? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: NBC news just said the teen onboard was terrified to go but didn’t want to disappoint his father. The media is full of liars and America hating leftists. Don't believe anything that they say. ...the teens dad was Pakistani, what does that have to do with hating America? Don't stop him, he's on a roll. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:50:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: David Santa Carla: TFW you should’ve hired 50 year old White ex-military submariners…
None of them would have rode that death trap; would have been doing an entire redesign. Hence, more cost effective to not. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:51:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wonder if the waiver they signed was as airtight as the sub. Pretty much. Did you see how fast Boeing and Univ. of Washington were to disavow any association with Oceangate? Plaintiff's lawyers like deep pockets a lot more than guilty pockets. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:52:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tragic university student, 19, who was killed in Titanic submarine 'implosion' was 'terrified' about the trip and only joined the crew to please his dad for Father's Day, heartbroken aunt reveals https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/06/22/23/72437691-0-image-a-28_1687472984682.jpg More |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:52:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was no SONAR in the 1st WW. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At least they went quickly. eta: this reminds me of a story I read from WW I. After depth charging a German U-boat, the Royal Navy destroyer was circling the site listening through sonar. They heard some attempts at restarting the engines, then sounds of gunshots. There was no SONAR in the 1st WW. They had passive listening, however. I don't think any special equipment was needed, in the story I heard the sub was very near the surface (it wasn't deep water) and I think they heard the shots with unaided ears. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:52:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is the bond between the titanium ring that was GLUED to the carbon fiber hull failed. The idiot ceo even said "no one has ever done titanium and carbon fiber" Yeah, I'm no expert, but I think you want weld to hold it together, not glue. Of course that would mean no carbon fiber hull. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:52:49 PM EDT
[#7]
If I was going to go on such a trip I would pack one of these to enable my escape from 12,000 deep to the surface. Maybe some swim fins if I feel I might be in a hurry. My R&D was confirmed by OceanGate.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:53:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of them would have rode that death trap; would have been doing an entire redesign. Hence, more cost effective to not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: David Santa Carla: TFW you should’ve hired 50 year old White ex-military submariners…
None of them would have rode that death trap; would have been doing an entire redesign. Hence, more cost effective to not. Yep. And they even had the door bolted shut...so if they somehow did survive and floated to the surface and went undetected, they would have still suffocated. Very woke! |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:53:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm seeing a lot of people are making this same mistake (not just here). If it was a true "crush" event, the issue is that there are two things going on at the exact same moment. 1. Yes, it is water and it is under pressure (a genuine triple metric shit ton of pressure). But, lots of people are forgetting that the water itself has mass. Imagine if you will, you're in a 6'x6'x6' box, and sitting on top of the box is a 6'x6'x2.5 miles high column of water. And suddenly, the roof just gives way. The entire column of water above you is going to instantly slam down on you to fill the void. You will be completely pulverized, not just crushed or slammed against the other wall, pulverized into paste. No intact bones, no meat, just a compressed glob of water soluble goo. Similar to a shipping container being dropped onto a tomato. Squash, "damn, that don't look like no tomato I ever saw." There may be chunks of flesh and fragments of bone floating around, but no recognizable corpse or peices that could be identified as part of such. 2. Now the triple metric shit ton of pressure issue. This is where lots of us are using the term "Dieseled". The worst case ambient pressure is (more or less) 5550 psi. Divide that by 14.7 and you get an increase of pressure that is a factor of 377.55 times what is inside the container. Air follows the "Ideal Gas Law" and volume is a direct inverse of the pressure, double the pressure, the volume is reduced to 1/2, triple the pressure, volume reduced to 1/3. So, when things went to shit, all of the gasses (air) inside the sub got crushed into a volume 1/377.55th of the original volume. (If you know the actual internal volume of the cylinder, that ratio will tell you the volume of the resulting "combustion chamber"). Normal diesel engines operate at between 300 and 400 psi because that is what it takes to make enough heat for the diesel liquid spray to ignite. For a brief moment, our cylinder reached an operating pressure of 5550 psi. At that pressure, the heat was enough that things that don't normally combust, suddenly do, an explosion. But only for a brief moment, then the volume of water flooded the space and put the fire out. And, all of this happened in a very small fraction of a second. They were dead before they could recognize that it was happening. So, recovering the bodies? No, there really aren't any to recover. Beautiful post. If this were Reddit I would give you some flair. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:54:02 PM EDT
[#10]
In honor of the lost souls that were confirmed today, we are going to watch a movie about diversity, wokeness, inclusivity, Vossler, racism, and Jack Russell terriers, we will watch Crimson Tide.
So it is said, So it shall be done. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:54:17 PM EDT
[#11]
In hindsight, maybe I should have hired some old White Guys....sheeeeeeit!"
 The Abyss - Lt. Coffey's death |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:59:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NBC news just said the teen onboard was terrified to go but didn’t want to disappoint his father. I just... I don’t... I mean. I saw it too. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:59:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you run a quick ideal gas law calc to see what kind of theoretical temperature it might've gotten to?  Only if you tell me V1/T1. i have V1/T1/14.7 = V2/T2/5550 |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:59:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I'm no expert, but I think you want weld to hold it together, not glue. Of course that would mean no carbon fiber hull. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My guess is the bond between the titanium ring that was GLUED to the carbon fiber hull failed. The idiot ceo even said "no one has ever done titanium and carbon fiber" Yeah, I'm no expert, but I think you want weld to hold it together, not glue. Of course that would mean no carbon fiber hull. If you glued it, you'd want to machine a groove into the titanium wide and deep enough to slide the CF into it after gluing, then glue and wrap more CF outside of that area well into the TI overlapping quite a ways to try and prevent the two dis-similar material from separating from each other. Even a pinhole or tiny delamination at those pressures would be enough to cause a catastrophic event. I'd also X ray it like you would a weld on a pressure containing vessel [or pipe] to make sure there were NO voids whatsoever. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:00:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, there has been a debris field down there for the better part of 111 years. And that debris field is "near" Titanic. Actually, it is Titanic. In all seriousness though, I think that's probably a wrap on this. If they put out a release that says they found a debris field, that's the sub. It imploded. I said several pages back that if it imploded, the debris would be obvious to an ROV. It would quite literally stick out like a sore thumb, as the area is already well-mapped and titanium, computer parts, and assorted other modern non-rusty components were going to always be an anomaly in the area. With the news that they think the banging on the audio was background noise, that they found this supposed debris field, that they lost contact so early on, etc., I think it's definitely reasonable to conclude at this point that it imploded on the way down, early into the mission. Very sad outcome, but not an unexpected one. At least it was probably quick. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
I mean, there has been a debris field down there for the better part of 111 years. And that debris field is "near" Titanic. Actually, it is Titanic. In all seriousness though, I think that's probably a wrap on this. If they put out a release that says they found a debris field, that's the sub. It imploded. I said several pages back that if it imploded, the debris would be obvious to an ROV. It would quite literally stick out like a sore thumb, as the area is already well-mapped and titanium, computer parts, and assorted other modern non-rusty components were going to always be an anomaly in the area. With the news that they think the banging on the audio was background noise, that they found this supposed debris field, that they lost contact so early on, etc., I think it's definitely reasonable to conclude at this point that it imploded on the way down, early into the mission. Very sad outcome, but not an unexpected one. At least it was probably quick. if the sub imploded, but the o2 tanks survived with valves intact, but tethered to the framework, it could have been days before the pressure equalized and then overcame the check valves causing them to collapse. This could have been the source of the banging sounds, especially if the shock of one caused another nearby one to fail shortly after. Again, just a theory, I'm no expert, but I spend a lot of time working with high pressure marine equipment, as well as deep water oil/gas and ROV's. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:03:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That... can't be accurate. Something is getting lost in translation. It's been known that the mothership only reported a problem several hours after loss of communications. The implosion would have occurred WELL before any SAR efforts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The US navy knew it imploded the second it happened and told those people as such. ... The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.” That... can't be accurate. Something is getting lost in translation. It's been known that the mothership only reported a problem several hours after loss of communications. The implosion would have occurred WELL before any SAR efforts. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:06:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone still in mastery of their high school math want to calculate the amount of energy that amount of seawater rushing in at that speed represents in foot pounds? 300 cubic feet of atmosphere being compressed down to 4.3 has a temperature over 2000 degrees F. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:07:54 PM EDT
[#18]
 "Catastrophic Implosion Is A Very Quick Demise" | Missing Titanic Sub Latest News Another repeat of the "in-network" rumor that the mothership knew the ballast had been dropped & they were headed back up. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:08:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. And they even had the door bolted shut...so if they somehow did survive and floated to the surface and went undetected, they would have still suffocated. Very woke! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: David Santa Carla: TFW you should’ve hired 50 year old White ex-military submariners…
None of them would have rode that death trap; would have been doing an entire redesign. Hence, more cost effective to not. Yep. And they even had the door bolted shut...so if they somehow did survive and floated to the surface and went undetected, they would have still suffocated. Very woke! Submarine hatches open outward, sea pressure helps keep them properly seated; much WTF in this entire story. Guarantee much big brother creep into sea and space exploration from this cluster fuck. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:09:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These would have been in situ acoustic monitors, not ones deployed in the SAR. I doubt anyone listening to it understood what it was at the time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US navy knew it imploded the second it happened and told those people as such. ... The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.” That... can't be accurate. Something is getting lost in translation. It's been known that the mothership only reported a problem several hours after loss of communications. The implosion would have occurred WELL before any SAR efforts. Precisely. The Navy might have gone back and listened to their tapes, but they didn't "immediately relay" jack shit. This is Public Affairs bullshit, meant to make the Navy look more competent than they are. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:09:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fucking Dan Crenshaw on now criticizing the response. Saying they could have been on site Wednesday morning to save the crew. Fuck that asshole. I thought the captain CEO of that woke jalopy was going to win the prize for most ignorant dumb fuck totally out of his league… Then Dan Crenshaw comes along and steals the title away from him. Sad. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:10:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 300 cubic feet of atmosphere being compressed down to 4.3 has a temperature over 2000 degrees F. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone still in mastery of their high school math want to calculate the amount of energy that amount of seawater rushing in at that speed represents in foot pounds? 300 cubic feet of atmosphere being compressed down to 4.3 has a temperature over 2000 degrees F. I'm interested in the energy expressed by 300 cubic feet of seawater traveling at a velocity that has already been posted, but is propelled by 6000 psi. In foot pounds, b/c ARFCOM understands foot pounds. That # will put paid to any questions about bodies being recovered. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:11:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Another Simpsons Conspiracy!
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:11:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh good a conspiracy theory already.  If the Wall Street journal is reporting it, it’s not really much of a conspiracy. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:13:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was no SONAR in the 1st WW. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: WSJ articles: Sub passengers died in implosion The five men onboard the missing submersible in the North Atlantic died in a catastrophic implosion, the U.S. Coast Guard said, after searchers found debris from the craft near the Titanic shipwreck that ended a desperate search to find them alive. US Navy detected Titan sub implosion days ago WASHINGTON—A top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission, officials involved in the search said. The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the commander on site, U.S. defense officials said. “The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.” The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns. At least they went quickly. eta: this reminds me of a story I read from WW I. After depth charging a German U-boat, the Royal Navy destroyer was circling the site listening through sonar. They heard some attempts at restarting the engines, then sounds of gunshots. There was no SONAR in the 1st WW. That, and you don’t restart engines on a diesel-electric underwater… doesn’t have anywhere to get air/oxygen for the engine unless it is surfaced or at snorkel depth. There would be no need to even attempt an engine start. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:14:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m glad I’m not the only one scratching my head over this reported timeline. I’d like to think it just popped on the way down (maybe pipped is the right term for an inward pop) How many documents could they shred in 7 hours or so? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:14:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm interested in the energy expressed by 300 cubic feet of seawater traveling at a velocity that has already been posted, but is propelled by 6000 psi. In foot pounds, b/c ARFCOM understands foot pounds. That # will put paid to any questions about bodies being recovered. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone still in mastery of their high school math want to calculate the amount of energy that amount of seawater rushing in at that speed represents in foot pounds? 300 cubic feet of atmosphere being compressed down to 4.3 has a temperature over 2000 degrees F. I'm interested in the energy expressed by 300 cubic feet of seawater traveling at a velocity that has already been posted, but is propelled by 6000 psi. In foot pounds, b/c ARFCOM understands foot pounds. That # will put paid to any questions about bodies being recovered. African or European seawater? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:14:38 PM EDT
[#28]
The implosion was on Sunday around the time communications were lost.
A senior U.S. Navy official said that the Navy had, through acoustic analysis, "detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost." The official said that the identification was "not definitive," the information was immediately shared with the search effort, and that the decision was made to continue searching to "make every effort to save the lives on board." The U.S. Navy, using data from a secret network of underwater sensors designed to track hostile submarines, detected "an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion" in the vicinity of the Titan submersible at the time communications with the vessel were lost on Sunday, two senior Navy officials said on Thursday. But with no other indications of a catastrophe, one of the officials said, the search was continued. Both officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss operational details, said that the analysis of undersea acoustic data and information about the location of the noise had been shared with the Coast Guard official in charge of the search. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:15:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These would have been in situ acoustic monitors, not ones deployed in the SAR. I doubt anyone listening to it understood what it was at the time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US navy knew it imploded the second it happened and told those people as such. ... The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.” That... can't be accurate. Something is getting lost in translation. It's been known that the mothership only reported a problem several hours after loss of communications. The implosion would have occurred WELL before any SAR efforts. They would have known what it was, and where it was. They've captured other submarines imploding below crush depth before. Catching it on multiple sensors and using time difference of arrival tells them the exact location. Kharn |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:15:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think anyone replying there could understand there might have been a scenario where an "emergency latch" would have been usefull... |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:17:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqACkT6NrvkAnother repeat of the "in-network" rumor that the mothership knew the ballast had been dropped & they were headed back up. The lady was correct is asking how did this "information" get from the Titan to the surface. I am not aware that there was any sort of voice, data, texting type communication from the Titan to the surface. The lack of clarity on simple matters continues. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:17:59 PM EDT
[#32]
At least it was fast.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:20:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lady was correct is asking how did this "information" get from the Titan to the surface. I am not aware that there was any sort of voice, data, texting type communication from the Titan to the surface. The lack of clarity on simple matters continues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqACkT6NrvkAnother repeat of the "in-network" rumor that the mothership knew the ballast had been dropped & they were headed back up. The lady was correct is asking how did this "information" get from the Titan to the surface. I am not aware that there was any sort of voice, data, texting type communication from the Titan to the surface. The lack of clarity on simple matters continues. We've known for days they have an acoustic texting ability. They could have had voice comms, too, but the CEO thought giving status updates was too distracting The problem is they lose communication for periods of time on every dive, and it became routine to just sit there not getting any information for prolonged periods of time. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:21:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think anyone replying there could understand there might have been a scenario where an "emergency latch" would have been usefull... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
I don't think anyone replying there could understand there might have been a scenario where an "emergency latch" would have been usefull... In case they were bobbing on the surface would be my guess. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:23:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lady was correct is asking how did this "information" get from the Titan to the surface. I am not aware that there was any sort of voice, data, texting type communication from the Titan to the surface. The lack of clarity on simple matters continues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqACkT6NrvkAnother repeat of the "in-network" rumor that the mothership knew the ballast had been dropped & they were headed back up. The lady was correct is asking how did this "information" get from the Titan to the surface. I am not aware that there was any sort of voice, data, texting type communication from the Titan to the surface. The lack of clarity on simple matters continues. It's been clear for some time they had intermittent texting communication via sound waves from the sub to the mothership. That's the communication signal that was lost. The question was not how did that information get from Titan to the mothership - it's how did it get from ther mothership to the submersible community, and how dare they just now break that rumor to the press when the press could have been trotting out that juicy morsel from day one. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:24:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No idea who that guy is, but he is speculating about bolts that were threaded into the carbon fiber…which is not at all how it was built. The CF hull and titanium domes were basically glued together with some kind of super adhesive. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Its not an official catastrophic event till Juan Brown has spoken.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a7oNnfKXPQNo idea who that guy is, but he is speculating about bolts that were threaded into the carbon fiber…which is not at all how it was built. The CF hull and titanium domes were basically glued together with some kind of super adhesive. I would have faith in the titanium domes but they are also being pushed against a CF tube In the vid a CF tube failed at 29000kg Titanium failed at about 90000kg. 3x the resistance to pressue.  HYDRAULIC PRESS VS TITANIUM AND CARBON FIBER PIPE |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:25:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That... can't be accurate. Something is getting lost in translation. It's been known that the mothership only reported a problem several hours after loss of communications. The implosion would have occurred WELL before any SAR efforts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The US navy knew it imploded the second it happened and told those people as such. ... The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.” That... can't be accurate. Something is getting lost in translation. It's been known that the mothership only reported a problem several hours after loss of communications. The implosion would have occurred WELL before any SAR efforts. I don’t know anything about the system, but I suspect a computer would send an alert that there has been an “event.” So, the techs are listening to this, looking at the wavy stuff on the computer, trying to figure out what it is… I mean, carbon fiber imploding isn’t the same as a steel submarine or ship sinking, so they are doing the “wtf.” Then either the mothership phones the USCG/USN or someone sees this on the news and goes “holy shit.” I’m sure they told someone, who called someone, etc, and it finally got to the SAR commander. But, again I don’t know shit, I suspect active sonar or whatever these big ships use, are a helluva lot more accurate than a bunch of microphones laying around the bottom of the ocean, what with the temps and currents and what not. I mean, they apparently found it pretty quick with the ROV. I’d like to see some photos/videos to be honest. I’m sure some lawyer somewhere is making phone calls to the USN/USCG saying they want this crap brought up because they are going to start charging people with negligent homicide and a bunch of other shit. The DOJ is likely on this right now. If I was on that mothership right now, I wouldn’t be saying shit to anyone. You know the minute that thing pulls in there are going to be government types who want to have a talk, I’d be surprised if they let them off the ship. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:26:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm interested in the energy expressed by 300 cubic feet of seawater traveling at a velocity that has already been posted, but is propelled by 6000 psi. In foot pounds, b/c ARFCOM understands foot pounds. That # will put paid to any questions about bodies being recovered. I think the 2000oF number accomplishes that equally as well.  They would have been flash fried before they were put into the carbon fiber Ninja blender and then pureed by 5600 psi of sea water. All within milliseconds. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:27:01 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In case they were bobbing on the surface would be my guess. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted:
I don't think anyone replying there could understand there might have been a scenario where an "emergency latch" would have been usefull... In case they were bobbing on the surface would be my guess. Given the construction of the sub w/o a conning tower, opening the forward hatch would likely flood the sub, and possibly sink it. One might think an inner titanium bulkhead or two might have sufficiently reinforced the carbon portion of the hull - if it wasn't the unspec'd porthole that failed. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:27:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In case they were bobbing on the surface would be my guess. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted:
I don't think anyone replying there could understand there might have been a scenario where an "emergency latch" would have been usefull... In case they were bobbing on the surface would be my guess. Exactly. That's what a lot of us were hoping for earlier. But, without a way to "self extract" they'd die on the surface. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:29:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm seeing a lot of people are making this same mistake (not just here). If it was a true "crush" event, the issue is that there are two things going on at the exact same moment. 1. Yes, it is water and it is under pressure (a genuine triple metric shit ton of pressure). But, lots of people are forgetting that the water itself has mass. Imagine if you will, you're in a 6'x6'x6' box, and sitting on top of the box is a 6'x6'x2.5 miles high column of water. And suddenly, the roof just gives way. The entire column of water above you is going to instantly slam down on you to fill the void. You will be completely pulverized, not just crushed or slammed against the other wall, pulverized into paste. No intact bones, no meat, just a compressed glob of water soluble goo. Similar to a shipping container being dropped onto a tomato. Squash, "damn, that don't look like no tomato I ever saw." There may be chunks of flesh and fragments of bone floating around, but no recognizable corpse or peices that could be identified as part of such. 2. Now the triple metric shit ton of pressure issue. This is where lots of us are using the term "Dieseled". The worst case ambient pressure is (more or less) 5550 psi. Divide that by 14.7 and you get an increase of pressure that is a factor of 377.55 times what is inside the container. Air follows the "Ideal Gas Law" and volume is a direct inverse of the pressure, double the pressure, the volume is reduced to 1/2, triple the pressure, volume reduced to 1/3. So, when things went to shit, all of the gasses (air) inside the sub got crushed into a volume 1/377.55th of the original volume. (If you know the actual internal volume of the cylinder, that ratio will tell you the volume of the resulting "combustion chamber"). Normal diesel engines operate at between 300 and 400 psi because that is what it takes to make enough heat for the diesel liquid spray to ignite. For a brief moment, our cylinder reached an operating pressure of 5550 psi. At that pressure, the heat was enough that things that don't normally combust, suddenly do, an explosion. But only for a brief moment, then the volume of water flooded the space and put the fire out. And, all of this happened in a very small fraction of a second. They were dead before they could recognize that it was happening. So, recovering the bodies? No, there really aren't any to recover. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is it safe to assume the plastic window failed and all of that pressure and water blasted into the cabin, turned the occupants to paste as it blew them against the Ti rear dome as it all came apart? In theory, the bodies might be intact but pulverized internally? Sank to the floor and were carried away by currents or are the bodies just floating in slow motion neutral buoyancy I'm seeing a lot of people are making this same mistake (not just here). If it was a true "crush" event, the issue is that there are two things going on at the exact same moment. 1. Yes, it is water and it is under pressure (a genuine triple metric shit ton of pressure). But, lots of people are forgetting that the water itself has mass. Imagine if you will, you're in a 6'x6'x6' box, and sitting on top of the box is a 6'x6'x2.5 miles high column of water. And suddenly, the roof just gives way. The entire column of water above you is going to instantly slam down on you to fill the void. You will be completely pulverized, not just crushed or slammed against the other wall, pulverized into paste. No intact bones, no meat, just a compressed glob of water soluble goo. Similar to a shipping container being dropped onto a tomato. Squash, "damn, that don't look like no tomato I ever saw." There may be chunks of flesh and fragments of bone floating around, but no recognizable corpse or peices that could be identified as part of such. 2. Now the triple metric shit ton of pressure issue. This is where lots of us are using the term "Dieseled". The worst case ambient pressure is (more or less) 5550 psi. Divide that by 14.7 and you get an increase of pressure that is a factor of 377.55 times what is inside the container. Air follows the "Ideal Gas Law" and volume is a direct inverse of the pressure, double the pressure, the volume is reduced to 1/2, triple the pressure, volume reduced to 1/3. So, when things went to shit, all of the gasses (air) inside the sub got crushed into a volume 1/377.55th of the original volume. (If you know the actual internal volume of the cylinder, that ratio will tell you the volume of the resulting "combustion chamber"). Normal diesel engines operate at between 300 and 400 psi because that is what it takes to make enough heat for the diesel liquid spray to ignite. For a brief moment, our cylinder reached an operating pressure of 5550 psi. At that pressure, the heat was enough that things that don't normally combust, suddenly do, an explosion. But only for a brief moment, then the volume of water flooded the space and put the fire out. And, all of this happened in a very small fraction of a second. They were dead before they could recognize that it was happening. So, recovering the bodies? No, there really aren't any to recover. @mlg123 This dieseling- is this the same effect where I’ve seen blacksmiths start a fire by hammering away at a piece of wood? Or is that more of an extreme friction? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:30:05 PM EDT
[#42]
I think this was an edition of junkyard wars
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:31:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you run a quick ideal gas law calc to see what kind of theoretical temperature it might've gotten to? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it safe to assume the plastic window failed and all of that pressure and water blasted into the cabin, turned the occupants to paste as it blew them against the Ti rear dome as it all came apart? In theory, the bodies might be intact but pulverized internally? Sank to the floor and were carried away by currents or are the bodies just floating in slow motion neutral buoyancy I'm seeing a lot of people are making this same mistake (not just here). If it was a true "crush" event, the issue is that there are two things going on at the exact same moment. 1. Yes, it is water and it is under pressure (a genuine triple metric shit ton of pressure). But, lots of people are forgetting that the water itself has mass. Imagine if you will, you're in a 6'x6'x6' box, and sitting on top of the box is a 6'x6'x2.5 miles high column of water. And suddenly, the roof just gives way. The entire column of water above you is going to instantly slam down on you to fill the void. You will be completely pulverized, not just crushed or slammed against the other wall, pulverized into paste. No intact bones, no meat, just a compressed glob of water soluble goo. Similar to a shipping container being dropped onto a tomato. Squash, "damn, that don't look like no tomato I ever saw." There may be chunks of flesh and fragments of bone floating around, but no recognizable corpse or peices that could be identified as part of such. 2. Now the triple metric shit ton of pressure issue. This is where lots of us are using the term "Dieseled". The worst case ambient pressure is (more or less) 5550 psi. Divide that by 14.7 and you get an increase of pressure that is a factor of 377.55 times what is inside the container. Air follows the "Ideal Gas Law" and volume is a direct inverse of the pressure, double the pressure, the volume is reduced to 1/2, triple the pressure, volume reduced to 1/3. So, when things went to shit, all of the gasses (air) inside the sub got crushed into a volume 1/377.55th of the original volume. (If you know the actual internal volume of the cylinder, that ratio will tell you the volume of the resulting "combustion chamber"). Normal diesel engines operate at between 300 and 400 psi because that is what it takes to make enough heat for the diesel liquid spray to ignite. For a brief moment, our cylinder reached an operating pressure of 5550 psi. At that pressure, the heat was enough that things that don't normally combust, suddenly do, an explosion. But only for a brief moment, then the volume of water flooded the space and put the fire out. And, all of this happened in a very small fraction of a second. They were dead before they could recognize that it was happening. So, recovering the bodies? No, there really aren't any to recover. Can you run a quick ideal gas law calc to see what kind of theoretical temperature it might've gotten to? Online calculators give about 2558 degrees C or 4634 degrees F. Ok, someone check my math because I’m not getting nearly as high a temp as expected when I run it manually. There’s got to be a simple error I’m making, but I don’t get 2558 degrees from this. P1*V1/T1=P2*V2/T2 Final temp would be T2= (T1*P2*V2)/(P1*V1) Assumptions: T1 = 10 degrees C (50 Fahrenheit) V1 = 40 cubic meters (published size roughly 7x2.5x2.5) P1 = 1 atmosphere V2 = 1 cubic meter just to use an easy number. P2 = 400 atmospheres. T2 = (10 * 400 * 1)/(1 * 40) That only gives me 100 degrees C. Maybe I should be using a different equation scribbling delta V and P. Don’t have time to rerun it now. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:31:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The giant isopod lives in an extreme habitat: the deep sea. It can live more than 1600 feet (500m) below the ocean's surface dark depths with less than one-millionth of the sunlight found at the surface. https://www.montereybayaquarium.org/animals/animals-a-to-z/giant-isopod#:~:text=The%20giant%20isopod%20lives%20in,sunlight%20found%20at%20the%20surface. All sorts of other scavengers at those depths. Shrimps, squat lobsters(which isn't even a true lobster) |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:32:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the 2000oF number accomplishes that equally as well. They would have been flash fried before they were put into the carbon fiber Ninja blender and then pureed by 5600 psi of sea water. All within milliseconds. And then they exploded. And imploded again and probably exploded once more. By the time the cycle was over there was soup. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:32:42 PM EDT
[#46]
This thread made me realize I misunderstood how gas reacts under pressure and what an AC compressor actually does.
Thanks, ArfEngineers! |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:35:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: African or European seawater? Are you suggesting African seawater migrates? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:36:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm seeing a lot of people are making this same mistake (not just here). If it was a true "crush" event, the issue is that there are two things going on at the exact same moment. 1. Yes, it is water and it is under pressure (a genuine triple metric shit ton of pressure). But, lots of people are forgetting that the water itself has mass. Imagine if you will, you're in a 6'x6'x6' box, and sitting on top of the box is a 6'x6'x2.5 miles high column of water. And suddenly, the roof just gives way. The entire column of water above you is going to instantly slam down on you to fill the void. You will be completely pulverized, not just crushed or slammed against the other wall, pulverized into paste. No intact bones, no meat, just a compressed glob of water soluble goo. Similar to a shipping container being dropped onto a tomato. Squash, "damn, that don't look like no tomato I ever saw." There may be chunks of flesh and fragments of bone floating around, but no recognizable corpse or peices that could be identified as part of such. 2. Now the triple metric shit ton of pressure issue. This is where lots of us are using the term "Dieseled". The worst case ambient pressure is (more or less) 5550 psi. Divide that by 14.7 and you get an increase of pressure that is a factor of 377.55 times what is inside the container. Air follows the "Ideal Gas Law" and volume is a direct inverse of the pressure, double the pressure, the volume is reduced to 1/2, triple the pressure, volume reduced to 1/3. So, when things went to shit, all of the gasses (air) inside the sub got crushed into a volume 1/377.55th of the original volume. (If you know the actual internal volume of the cylinder, that ratio will tell you the volume of the resulting "combustion chamber"). Normal diesel engines operate at between 300 and 400 psi because that is what it takes to make enough heat for the diesel liquid spray to ignite. For a brief moment, our cylinder reached an operating pressure of 5550 psi. At that pressure, the heat was enough that things that don't normally combust, suddenly do, an explosion. But only for a brief moment, then the volume of water flooded the space and put the fire out. And, all of this happened in a very small fraction of a second. They were dead before they could recognize that it was happening. So, recovering the bodies? No, there really aren't any to recover. Absolutely fascinating the vast amount of knowledge here. Literally fascinating. Subcommunic8tor too. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:36:50 PM EDT
[#49]
The US Navy figured it out in 1963 with SUBSAFE. "SUBSAFE covers all systems exposed to sea pressure or critical to flooding recovery. All work done and all materials used on those systems are tightly controlled to ensure the material used in their assembly as well as the methods of assembly, maintenance, and testing are correct. They require certification with traceable quality evidence which track the item from the point of manufacture (including all records of the creation of the product, i.e. source materials as well as smelting and hardening process for metals) to the point of installation within a SUBSAFE boundary." The US Navy has not lost a SUBSAFE-certified submarine. Prior to SUBSAFE standards they lost 16 submarines to non-combat incidents. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:37:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Submarine hatches open outward, sea pressure helps keep them properly seated; much WTF in this entire story. Guarantee much big brother creep into sea and space exploration from this cluster fuck. Ah, I can see the rebranding now. SAFET Submarines Alcohol Firearms Explosives and Tobacco |
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