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http://www.alhambrarotary.com/IMupload/newsletter/20120424_newsletter.pdf

Valid that he was listed as a speaker.  Not valid about his presentation on Ruby Ridge.

TRG

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Please try not to quote someone who is clearly attempting to get this thread locked via admitted trolling. This is one place where the ignore button serves quite well. Thanks!

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And this.

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And this.

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Which is really the real 'rub' that Mr. Troy, you and most of his defenders seem to be missing.
 

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No

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BCM and LaRue didn't hire anti gunners and or murder advocates.  This thread is about Troy stepping on his dick.  Can we give BCM and LaRue and the others that have done nothing the benefit of the doubt.

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Which is really the real 'rub' that Mr. Troy, you and most of his defenders seem to be missing.
 

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Exactly.

Here is a news snippet of Monroe's testimony to the senate sub-committee. Read it, understand it,let it sink in....and if you are ok with....you have a serious case of WTF


"Dale R. Monroe, the partner of FBI hostage rescue team leader Lon Horiuchi--who fired the fatal shot--said that he was preparing to fire but did not because Horiuchi fired first"


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

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Why would he? He could apologize, Steve Troy could apologize, and give free BUIS to everyone with an AR-15 and this community still wouldn't forgive him. Just look at what he's gotten for the concessions he's made so far: more enemies and more scorn. As if either of them owe you anything.

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Steve Troy (for baseball fans) is like Ryan Braun

GB is Aaron Rodgers.
 

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Good thing nobody felt that way when the '94-'04 AWB expired and (standard) hi-cap mags were available at reasonable prices again.

PS
Using money paid (and value gained) as a result of an Unconstitutional restriction as a reason for upholding said restrictions is the excuse of a scumbag.

I have continued to observe the things you've said through several pages, trying to find a shred of reason for your perspective...or an interest in freedom and liberty FOR ALL...but after your statement here, I don't think I'm going to ever see one.

*click*

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I keep running iterations through Google and receiving nothing but links to your statement when I enter that title.  

Nowhere on the web is there any other reference to this presentation, its title, or Dale Monroe making any sort of presentation with that title.



Really?

Because it appears, that from these 1000+ civilians, not a single one of them so much as made a peep about.  No vendor posted an advertisement, or handbill, or banner announcing the presentation.

No hidden camera videos, no snapshots, no, "OMG! look who this is as the speaker today!"

Nothing but crickets on that presentation title that, supposedly, nullifies his past and validates his worth to this community.

Maybe he made his presentation on the back of a napkin and it was simply, and innocently, omitted from his hiring packet?

TRG

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Why would he? He could apologize, Steve Troy could apologize, and give free BUIS to everyone with an AR-15 and this community still wouldn't forgive him. Just look at what he's gotten for the concessions he's made so far: more enemies and more scorn. As if either of them owe you anything.

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So you admittedly are willing to overlook the atrocities at RR and the fuck ups by those involved because your a fan of Troys products?  Your moral compass is on par with the company you'd like to keep.  Pathetic.

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404 Atrocities Not Found. Taking up arms against an overwhelmingly superior force has a predictable outcome.

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404 Atrocities Not Found. Taking up arms against an overwhelmingly superior force has a predictable outcome.

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404 Atrocities Not Found. Taking up arms against an overwhelmingly superior force has a predictable outcome.

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404 Atrocities Not Found. Taking up arms against an overwhelmingly superior force has a predictable outcome.

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Troy has dedicated people on this site every day. They are also an IP and not a sponsor, so their financial tie to us is minimal. Regardless, none of this matters to me. If they were our largest sponsor or our smallest, we look at each company and their actions for and against the firearms community and this site.

Right now I can say that I do not agree with their choice, but I also am not condemning them to rot in hell like many of you. "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone" comes to mind in this mess. Sure Monroe isn't exactly a boy scout and is a part of one of the darkest days in this country's history, but it was 20 years ago and we do not know the man and who he is today. To assume he has not suffered over this mess and has not changed is a very black/white ignorant thought. We want this mess to fit nicely into a box, but it doesn't. There are emotional ties because of the pure evil of the event, but in the end is it any different than other mistakes made in all walks of life that end up costing an innocent life? Sure none of this is on par with the murder or an innocent, but Monroe did not kill Weaver, if he did then it would be cut and dry and simple to assess. The issue is he was a part of the mess and said in his statement contradicting things.

For those who point to the video, go to 1:58 and watch as he states very clearly that the presence of children made the kill on sight orders null and void. He would not take a shot if it endangered children. So which is it? Is he this cold blooded merciless killer of an unarmed woman or is he just a guy caught in the most nightmarish of days on the job? I can't put him in either category because it's all gray area. He was a part of this mess and as such he is responsible for it as much as Horiuchi and everyone else who was present. What matters more to me is what he has done since that day and how he has worked to atone for his role, if he has even tried to do so. From what I have been told (again I have not witnessed it) is that he spends time and is available to speak about the day and how things were completely and horribly wrong. He seems to me as a man who is willing to delve into the demons in his past to help others try to understand and not make the same mistakes. Does this negate his role, hell no. He's still guilty of being a part of the problem, but he's not that different from any of us. If we were in the same situation we would hope we had the inner strength to walk away, but how many of us could say with a certainty that we would have given up our careers, our friends, our duty on the day, all because of a moral issue we didnt even have enough information to form a full thought on. Do you really think they were told everything that was going on? That emotions were not high from being told a federal agent had already been shot and killed?

Ok so regardless of how you feel about the man and what you think about the incident and his time since, we know it was horrible and being associated with someone responsible for it is a huge negative. So now Troy has a guy most of us feel was wrong working for them. He was shown to not train anyone on anything but crisis situations regarding bomb scenarios. Is this the guy we want training our future responders? Well maybe yes and maybe no, it all comes down to what he learned that day and each day since. Is this the same guy who sat stone faced in that hearing or is this a guy who has seen his life hit bottom and cost innocent lives? I don't know Monroe nor what type of man he is. What I do know is EdSr. He went to war and did things he can't even talk to me about. I'm sure he has killed and seen the horrible face of war and yet I hold zero negative thoughts about the man. I revere him for what he did and who he has become. To me I can't condemn a man I do not know. Again, yes the situations are different and removed from each other, but the same basic principle is there. We are all human, we make mistakes, we often are in situations which far exceed our abilities, what we choose to do will stay with us forever. Does it mean we do not become better men? That we can't find redemption? I hope not, because if a day comes when I am in a situation like that, I would like to hope I could change and become a better person and move past something so difficult and life altering.

Steve Troy is a man of high quality. I know this because I've been on both sides of the fence with him. We had a problem that wedged us apart years ago and now we talk and enjoy a relationship focused on bring all of you something good. During our time of distrust, he never attacked me, nor I him. He was honorable enough to stay his course and follow what he felt was right. When we made amends and forged a new relationship he has been honest and honorable every step of the way admitting our misunderstanding was wrong. I have learned that he is a man of principle above all. If an anti-gun company threatened the community, he never shied away from fighting it. If it meant a loss of profits, then profits be damned. We all make mistakes and I'm sure Steve has made his share of them, but in the end I know he means well and cares about the firearms community deeply. Troy employees seem to be cut from the same cloth. Everyone I have had the pleasure of meeting and talking to have gone over the top to ensure they are providing top service and products and being focused on all of you. This isn't always the case with companies, but it is something we see more and more each year. Companies like Troy are no longer unique, they are becoming the norm, but it's still important for us to know who is there for us and why and when a company can shine out and be an example to others, you notice it.

So back to the original question, what will ar15.com do with Troy. I do not know what the future holds, but like Steve I must hold firm to what I believe is right and I can not abandon a company to be torn apart over something like this when I do not know the man in the middle of the discussion. Is he a jerk? Is he a wonderful person? I do not know, so I can't condemn him or the company's decision so emotionless. What I do know is Steve, Troy employees, and the fact they have always made great products and provided great service to everyone in the community. That sways my mind to support them at this time. I would love to hear more, especially from Monroe himself, but that's not my call.

I hope you all take what I've said to heart and understand that I've thrown myself into this mess to learn everything I could about it and make my own decision. I've watched the video, I've read a bunch of stories, and I've read through not only the threads on this site, but discussions and blogs that are all dissecting this mess. when Jody was hired, there was zero excuse for it, my jaw dropped and I was upset. The fact Troy fired him upon learning about it shows a lot to me. It shows a company willing to do what is right. If Monroe is a good guy who has suffered and learned from the past, then sacrificing him to save face would be wrong. If he was just an asset or a means to business I don't doubt he would be gone. That's just how Steve works.

I apologize for the long winded response, but right now I can't throw Troy under a bus and I hope I've been clear as to why. Now this may change as people continue to make their case and bring more information to light, but with what we have seen out there already it's all based on putting the blame for Ruby Ridge on the shoulders of this one man. We will continue to allow Troy to be an IP here until such a time as we feel their interests are no longer in line with the best interests of the firearm community, our rights and freedoms, or the spirit of this site.

You are now free to attack me if you feel necessary.


Edited my terrible original line.. my apologies. -- GB

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404 Atrocities Not Found. Taking up arms against an overwhelmingly superior force has a predictable outcome.

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I don't defend his actions nor deny the above. If you listen to the video, he states he would have taken the shot clearly and on multiple occasions, but he also says he would never fire if children or innocents were in harms way. So it's not black and white which is all I'm saying. Bad day to be in the FBI and he never says he would have killed Weaver, just that the shot at the man running away and into the cabin was justified. Everyone on that panel said the same thing if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not against what you are saying, I'm just against how tidy everyone wants it to be.

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There's a difference though. Taking a shot at a suspected killer versus taking a shot at an innocent woman with a baby in her arms. That was all I was getting across. The man says clearly he would never take a shot with children in harms way. It's pulling one thing out of context and ignoring what he says later which contradicts this point everyone wants to push. I'm ok with taking info from the testimony, but take it all not just the parts which fit the argument.

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Monroe - is that you?

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I doubt anyone is going to look back into the wildfire that is this thread.

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I doubt anyone is going to look back into the wildfire that is this thread.

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Please tell us the concessions Troy has made.

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Just to put some facts into this to provide clarity:

- Troy Ind and Troy Asym are different companies.
- Steve Troy is the head of all things Troy.
- Management from each company under Steve is different, ie Troy Ind has nothing to do with Troy Asym.
- Kevin hired Jody and Monroe and had* authority to hire directly up to that incident.
- Steve found out about Jody and quickly jumped in and fired him.
- Steve was looking into Monroe hiring and addressing both issues.