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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:38:07 PM EDT
[#1]
For the shotguns, stick to the more well-know, established brands like Hatsan/Escort, Huglu, Dickinson etc. The absolute plague of all the fly-by-night mfg. shotguns are what you want to avoid. You'll be left holding the bag in 6 months to a year when a small part breaks and the importer/mfg is nowhere to be found.
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:39:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are aware that Belgium, Italy, Spain, Germany, were considered garbage tier, once upon a time, with Italy not being that long ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We were at the range one day, and this guy drives up, gets out, and asks us if he can look around. The puzzled looks on our faces made him elaborate, "I just bought this Turkish shotgun this morning, and it came apart the first time I fired it. I think I'm missing a piece." You guys can bask in your pride of ownership over your Turkish piece of garbage "firearm". In my mind, China can finally hold its head high that it's not the lowest tier gun industry anymore. You are aware that Belgium, Italy, Spain, Germany, were considered garbage tier, once upon a time, with Italy not being that long ago. "Once upon a time" a lot of manufacturers were making shit. I had an unreliable piece of shit Springfield 1911 made around 1994 that I wouldn't give five dollars to get back, yet the ones I own now have been 100% with every magazine and every type of ammo. Maybe one day Turkiye will up its game and "be there" but not right now. I'd try out another Tisas 1911 with someone else's money, but not mine. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:41:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aren’t you in the industry in some way? Arfcom is mostly upper middle class hobbyists. Arfcom doesn’t represent the majority of gun buyers in the US, for whom cost is a major factor. And based on my own experience someone with a Canik or Tisas gun budget is getting something as good or better than someone who has a “big brand” budget. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:42:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, when they were producing garbage-tier guns. But, they got better. Arfcom tends to have a lot of people that know a little about guns. They drive the thing but don't know what makes it go. This crowd will never accept that there is progress and improvement. They saw something as garbage 20 years ago, and will go out of their way to convince anyone dumb enough to believe them that this can never change. 10 years ago, PSA, the beloved maker of good but well priced ARs was turning out garbage too. It's well accepted that this is no longer the case. So too the major turk factories. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:43:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 years ago, PSA, the beloved maker of good but well priced ARs was turning out garbage too. It's well accepted that this is no longer the case. Agree, as posted above, but my experience is more like three years ago. I honestly believe in a few more years they will be up there with A-list manufacturers IF they keep improving as they seem to be doing. Right now I'd trust a PSA gun for all but SHTF scenarios. That is, I'd trust a PSA gun as long as I had spares of known top tier brands. In a few years I might not even have that reservation. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:44:42 PM EDT
[#6]
I bought both of those things and I’m likely to buy some more.
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:45:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Question for the CZ Turkish shotgun crowd. How good is the customer service and are there replacement parts for high wear items?
If the Turkish gun is a HK or 870 clone that shares interchangeable parts and doesn't have proprietary parts I wouldn't have a problem. I've heard the CZ Turk guns are quite nice but I just can't see buying a $700 shotgun and not being able to fix it if it shits the bed out of warranty. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:45:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD in Holosun Threads: Who cares if Holosun is 2-3 generations more advanced than Trijicon or Aimpoint, their optics are about as reliable, much cheaper, and have features you can't get from a Western company? They're enemies of America. GD in Turkish Gun Threads: Who cares if they're enemies of America? They make copies of guns that are almost the same as what we already have, but they're cheaper.  China as an “enemy of America” is grossly more of an actual threat than the Saracens, who despite their ongoing occupation of Constantinople are, at least legally, NATO partners and functionally, not a threat outside of their region. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:46:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Centerfire rifles and HK clones seem fine. The pistols are hit and miss. Shotguns are pure garbage. The ammo seems fine - sometimes stinky. Turkish Lira is down 90% in the last 10 years. 70% in the last two. I've picked up a couple different 12 gauges that I've been impressed with. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:48:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question for the CZ Turkish shotgun crowd. How good is the customer service and are there replacement parts for high wear items? If the Turkish gun is a HK or 870 clone that shares interchangeable parts and doesn't have proprietary parts I wouldn't have a problem. I've heard the CZ Turk guns are quite nice but I just can't see buying a $700 shotgun and not being able to fix it if it shits the bed out of warranty. The reverse-engineered MP5s that Turkey is producing have FTEs on some (but not all guns). Sometimes this is fixed by replacing the extractor with an HK extractor, other times this doesn’t work. Recent internet fudd-lore is that you should replace the extractor with a German HK one as soon as you receive the $1000 gun. AFAIK there are no AR-15s that cost $1000 and have the same reputation for FTEs. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:48:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Double post
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:49:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 years ago, PSA, the beloved maker of good but well priced ARs was turning out garbage too. It's well accepted that this is no longer the case. Interesting, when I was building my first AR (exactly ten years ago) everyone was recommending PSA, it was only years later that I started to see negative comments about them. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:50:38 PM EDT
[#13]
I agree they are flooding the market with firearms some good some bad. All I I can say is my TISAS 5" Government 1911A1 is the best 1911 I’ve owned in a long time $395 maybe the firearms manufacturers in this country will step up their quality control I doubt it but hopefully they do.
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Posted: 12/22/2022 12:53:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turkey listens to Gun buyer. Turkey … “You want another HK clone? We got ya.” HK “No soup for you!” To be fair, it feels as if HK only releases 10 SP5's a month. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:00:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Aren’t you in the industry in some way? Arfcom is mostly upper middle class hobbyists. Arfcom doesn’t represent the majority of gun buyers in the US, for whom cost is a major factor. I'm not denigrating lower cost options. I understand that I'm in a position with firearms that is unlike most people and does not represent any sizable demographic. But lower cost options don't equal disruptive. Glock was disruptive. An expensive option using a polymer frame and simple design which allowed it to be mass produced at scale and be incredibly reliable. AR15s were disruptive. When the word is used, it should imply something that creates a fundamental shift in the market. Things are disruptive because they are outside the convention of the industry, bring a new perspective, and cause a realignment. There have always been cheap guns, there always will be cheap guns. Now that some of them look like more expensive guns doesn't make it inherently disruptive. The vast appeal of these guns is much more in alignment with the "collector" gun types who just like to buy new things all the time, and having the price point is nice. When it come to the Turkish guns, they obviously produce a bunch. Most, are actually trash. There are some diamonds in the rough. Anything shotgun related I'd avoid like the plague, I've seen some shit. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:01:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the shotguns, stick to the more well-know, established brands like Hatsan/Escort, Huglu, Dickinson etc. The absolute plague of all the fly-by-night mfg. shotguns are what you want to avoid. You'll be left holding the bag in 6 months to a year when a small part breaks and the importer/mfg is nowhere to be found. what about Retay? |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:02:16 PM EDT
[#17]
I haven’t bought a new pistol in 10 years but could not resist the $300 1911. Now I want another one just because. I thought I was done buying.
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:06:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question for the CZ Turkish shotgun crowd. How good is the customer service and are there replacement parts for high wear items? If the Turkish gun is a HK or 870 clone that shares interchangeable parts and doesn't have proprietary parts I wouldn't have a problem. I've heard the CZ Turk guns are quite nice but I just can't see buying a $700 shotgun and not being able to fix it if it shits the bed out of warranty. CZ USA doesn't have good customer service in general. CZ shotgun pricing is getting nutty these days, too. For that kind of money, I'd say it makes more sense to keep saving and get a B-gun of some kind. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:07:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Every Turkish gun I have is great, well made and functional.
The fact they are cheap just adds to the fun I need another AP-5 Or that Beretta 92 clone Or another CZ copy Or.... |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:09:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not denigrating lower cost options. I understand that I'm in a position with firearms that is unlike most people and does not represent any sizable demographic. But lower cost options don't equal disruptive. Glock was disruptive. An expensive option using a polymer frame and simple design which allowed it to be mass produced at scale and be incredibly reliable. AR15s were disruptive. When the word is used, it should imply something that creates a fundamental shift in the market. Things are disruptive because they are outside the convention of the industry, bring a new perspective, and cause a realignment. There have always been cheap guns, there always will be cheap guns. Now that some of them look like more expensive guns doesn't make it inherently disruptive. The vast appeal of these guns is much more in alignment with the "collector" gun types who just like to buy new things all the time, and having the price point is nice. When it come to the Turkish guns, they obviously produce a bunch. Most, are actually trash. There are some diamonds in the rough. Anything shotgun related I'd avoid like the plague, I've seen some shit. Your perspective is product-centric. If you think of the product as a commodity and with guns that's often the case where hobbyists aren't involved, changing the accessibility of the commodity can certainly disrupt an established business order. I'm not even trying to convince you, really, just pointing that out. We can agree to disagree. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:09:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: China as an “enemy of America” is grossly more of an actual threat than the Saracens, who despite their ongoing occupation of Constantinople are, at least legally, NATO partners and functionally, not a threat outside of their region. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: GD in Holosun Threads: Who cares if Holosun is 2-3 generations more advanced than Trijicon or Aimpoint, their optics are about as reliable, much cheaper, and have features you can't get from a Western company? They're enemies of America. GD in Turkish Gun Threads: Who cares if they're enemies of America? They make copies of guns that are almost the same as what we already have, but they're cheaper. China as an “enemy of America” is grossly more of an actual threat than the Saracens, who despite their ongoing occupation of Constantinople are, at least legally, NATO partners and functionally, not a threat outside of their region. Something similar could have been said of the Saudis before 9/11... |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:14:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All I know is that their shotguns have flooded the market and all of them are garbage. Otherwise, Id be ok with a Mp5 cloneski. There are a ton of "American" shotguns that are actually made in Turkey. Winchester pumps and Weatherby semi autos for example. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:15:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question for the CZ Turkish shotgun crowd. How good is the customer service and are there replacement parts for high wear items? If the Turkish gun is a HK or 870 clone that shares interchangeable parts and doesn't have proprietary parts I wouldn't have a problem. I've heard the CZ Turk guns are quite nice but I just can't see buying a $700 shotgun and not being able to fix it if it shits the bed out of warranty. CZ USA provides parts and service, but I've never needed them. There's a guy at shotgunworld that has 36k+ rounds through his. He thought a broke a firing pin, turns out it was just dirty. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:16:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Fuck Turkey
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:19:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very Happy with my CZ Bobwhite G2. What a fantastic shotgun. I’m not convinced, still lots of soft metal issues and barrel indexing problems…but yildiz has their shit together and a few other brands. These may be what Aya was to Spain in the shotgun world. Yildiz pro is without a doubt the best sporting O/U on the market for the price. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:20:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your perspective is product-centric. If you think of the product as a commodity and with guns that's often the case where hobbyists aren't involved, changing the accessibility of the commodity can certainly disrupt an established business order. I'm not even trying to convince you, really, just pointing that out. We can agree to disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not denigrating lower cost options. I understand that I'm in a position with firearms that is unlike most people and does not represent any sizable demographic. But lower cost options don't equal disruptive. Glock was disruptive. An expensive option using a polymer frame and simple design which allowed it to be mass produced at scale and be incredibly reliable. AR15s were disruptive. When the word is used, it should imply something that creates a fundamental shift in the market. Things are disruptive because they are outside the convention of the industry, bring a new perspective, and cause a realignment. There have always been cheap guns, there always will be cheap guns. Now that some of them look like more expensive guns doesn't make it inherently disruptive. The vast appeal of these guns is much more in alignment with the "collector" gun types who just like to buy new things all the time, and having the price point is nice. When it come to the Turkish guns, they obviously produce a bunch. Most, are actually trash. There are some diamonds in the rough. Anything shotgun related I'd avoid like the plague, I've seen some shit. Your perspective is product-centric. If you think of the product as a commodity and with guns that's often the case where hobbyists aren't involved, changing the accessibility of the commodity can certainly disrupt an established business order. I'm not even trying to convince you, really, just pointing that out. We can agree to disagree. But the access of that commodity was always there, the options are just expanded. Unless you can point to me where Turkish guns have caused a measurable shift in gun ownership adoption rates, the point is moot. There just happens to be a confluence of economic and global factors which has caused this part of the market to open up and expand. Expansion, not disruption. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:24:04 PM EDT
[#27]
MP7's for 800.00?
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:26:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm really happy with my 1911 "Tanker/Commander" and I hear that they do a pretty good clone of a Beretta "Cheetah" too (It's on my "To Buy" list).   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Hni2odfskI picked one up and extemely impressed. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:33:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. Made by MKE. Previously imported by Zenith, now imported by Century. . ETA: I bought one, as a result of reading the Official Arfcom MKE AP5 thread. I've only put a thousand rounds through it, and haven't fought any battles on Chicago's West Side, but it's been perfectly flawless. It's incredibly fun to shoot. Yeah, I was pretty sure that was the case. I still see people trying to sell zenith ones for 2k, which was certainly a good deal a couple years ago, but as far as I knew they were / are identical models. I've had a generally good opinion of turkish stuff since the charles daly import days. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:34:48 PM EDT
[#30]
The two handguns that I bought new that I had the most trouble with were both made in the USA by Colt.
5" 1911 that I saved and purchased on my 21st birthday. Front sight went flying during the first range day. I don't think it made it 50 rounds, and was a jammomatic. Accuracy was minute of pie plate if shot from a rest. Loose thumb safety. I poured some serious cash into it to make it run. Colt King Cobra - Cylinder would not accept .357 magnum rounds. Sent it back and that was fixed. Broke the pawl soon after getting it back. The TriStar semi-auto shotguns have been reliable and are very well made. The O/U shotguns did not hold up to moderate use, including the .410 and 20 gauge youth guns that I bought for my 5' wife. The MKE AP9 has been flawless over thousands of rounds, with most of them suppressed. I'd buy another with a different barrel length if I was not on a shotgun spending spree. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 1:59:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD in Holosun Threads: Who cares if Holosun is 2-3 generations more advanced than Trijicon or Aimpoint, their optics are about as reliable, much cheaper, and have features you can't get from a Western company? They're enemies of America. GD in Turkish Gun Threads: Who cares if they're enemies of America? They make copies of guns that are almost the same as what we already have, but they're cheaper. I agree with the sentiment, but my Tisas railed 9mm is smoother than any production Springfield I've ever own, with what appears to be no or minimal mim parts. A comparable Operator today from SA in 9mm (if those fucksticks made a normal production railed 9mm anymore) would be $1,000 chock full of mim. The Tisas is $450 delivered. It is what it is. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:02:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember the Fake Coup in Turkey, where they rounded up the opposition party? I remember watching that on live TV. Remember Jan 6th? Remember how they locked up the opposition party? |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:02:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the eleventy-thousandth time: My Tisas 1911 was a jam-o-matic piece of shit. I'm quite sure right now that Tisas must be associated with Century Arms. "The defect goes in before the name goes on." And? My $800 Brazil made stainless loaded was an inaccurate piece of shit. My $2500 1st Les Baer 9mm couldn't even get through a full mag without jamming. Had to send it to ACW to get running right. Every company puts out a piece of shit now and then. I'd prefer to buy American and will if I currently have the funds. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:19:00 PM EDT
[#34]
I can just imagine explaining to the game warden how the mp5 is my turkey gun
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:26:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with the sentiment, but my Tisas railed 9mm is smoother than any production Springfield I've ever own, with what appears to be no or minimal mim parts. A comparable Operator today from SA in 9mm (if those fucksticks made a normal production railed 9mm anymore) would be $1,000 chock full of mim. The Tisas is $450 delivered. It is what it is. Exactly this. And for the guys asking for MP7s and G36Ks. Not going to happen. If you look at the manufacturers and watch their YouTube videos, they are huge, extremely modern facilities filed with the latest stamping and cnc machines. So low labor and energy costs, likely subsidized equipment, they are able to just toss chunks of metal on machines and have nice forged parts by the bucket load. This is why the 1911s are so well made and cheap. I don't think they have the same level of investment in polymers to build MP7s, etc. I also recall the MP5s are built on licensed HK tooling. It would be great if they made some other metal classics like a fullsize Uzi. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:39:39 PM EDT
[#36]
I've been shooting a CZ (Huglu) 712 G2 semi for two years without a problem. Very nice shotgun, feels so damn light.
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:40:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not convinced, still lots of soft metal issues and barrel indexing problems…but yildiz has their shit together and a few other brands. These may be what Aya was to Spain in the shotgun world. Yildiz pro is without a doubt the best sporting O/U on the market for the price. I have not seen this in the cz line. I admit only the past 3 years of my experience with them and a limited sample size, but so far I'm happy. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:52:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been shooting a CZ (Huglu) 712 G2 semi for two years without a problem. Very nice shotgun, feels so damn light. Same here. Mine has over 1500 rounds through it, and has been flawless |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:54:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Had to call the local ffl to say a century ap5 from PSA should be on its way to them shortly.
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:56:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cheap copies, yuck.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:57:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had to call the local ffl to say a century ap5 from PSA should be on its way to them shortly. No way to mount a can on that. Boo |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 2:59:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the eleventy-thousandth time: My Tisas 1911 was a jam-o-matic piece of shit. I'm quite sure right now that Tisas must be associated with Century Arms. "The defect goes in before the name goes on." Also for the eleventy-thousandeth time, what did CS say when you attempted to get it repaired? How many trips before you gave up? |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 3:00:27 PM EDT
[#43]
I'd really like a HK33 clone.... with a rail on top for optics.
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Posted: 12/22/2022 3:01:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also for the eleventy-thousandeth time, what did CS say when you attempted to get it repaired? How many trips before you gave up? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For the eleventy-thousandth time: My Tisas 1911 was a jam-o-matic piece of shit. I'm quite sure right now that Tisas must be associated with Century Arms. "The defect goes in before the name goes on." Also for the eleventy-thousandeth time, what did CS say when you attempted to get it repaired? How many trips before you gave up? And I've answered your question in multiple threads: I sold it with full disclosure and decided not to babysit it anymore since my Springfields are 100%. I suspect it might have worked with top tier mags, but that negates the attractive discount price IMHO. I literally feel like I got a lemon with multiple issues that didn't work, was never going to work, and even if it had gone back to the factory I would never have trusted it again even if they repaired it. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 3:14:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Are there any Turk 9mm double stack 1911s being made?
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Posted: 12/22/2022 3:45:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with the sentiment, but my Tisas railed 9mm is smoother than any production Springfield I've ever own, with what appears to be no or minimal mim parts. A comparable Operator today from SA in 9mm (if those fucksticks made a normal production railed 9mm anymore) would be $1,000 chock full of mim. The Tisas is $450 delivered. It is what it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: GD in Holosun Threads: Who cares if Holosun is 2-3 generations more advanced than Trijicon or Aimpoint, their optics are about as reliable, much cheaper, and have features you can't get from a Western company? They're enemies of America. GD in Turkish Gun Threads: Who cares if they're enemies of America? They make copies of guns that are almost the same as what we already have, but they're cheaper. I agree with the sentiment, but my Tisas railed 9mm is smoother than any production Springfield I've ever own, with what appears to be no or minimal mim parts. A comparable Operator today from SA in 9mm (if those fucksticks made a normal production railed 9mm anymore) would be $1,000 chock full of mim. The Tisas is $450 delivered. It is what it is. Really? |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 3:49:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: GD in Holosun Threads: Who cares if Holosun is 2-3 generations more advanced than Trijicon or Aimpoint, their optics are about as reliable, much cheaper, and have features you can't get from a Western company? They're enemies of America. GD in Turkish Gun Threads: Who cares if they're enemies of America? They make copies of guns that are almost the same as what we already have, but they're cheaper. I agree with the sentiment, but my Tisas railed 9mm is smoother than any production Springfield I've ever own, with what appears to be no or minimal mim parts. A comparable Operator today from SA in 9mm (if those fucksticks made a normal production railed 9mm anymore) would be $1,000 chock full of mim. The Tisas is $450 delivered. It is what it is. Really? I am not a gunsmith in any way shape or form, but I did not see any normal MIM molding marks like on Springfields. They may be cast and not MIM, however, the TISAS rep on here stated they were going away from MIM and I think the only cast part would be the recoil spring plug. Over the first 50 rounds I fired, I was pleased with it's function. Hell even the trigger, which is heavier than I like, broke nicely. 50 rounds isn't really a test of anything but it's all I had time for at the range during lunchtime today. If I could find an American railed 9mm 1911 for $450 fit and finished as nicely as the TISAS, I would have bought that. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 3:57:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My Tisas actually shoots better than my Remington Rand. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26154/B7722536-4B94-4F35-BC3C-4241D9383C41_jpe-2644732.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Cheap copies, yuck. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26154/B7722536-4B94-4F35-BC3C-4241D9383C41_jpe-2644732.JPG One of those is brand new. The other is at least 77 years old, has been beat on by generations of GIs, most likely has parts swapped from other guns, and might have a history of use in major wars. I would hope the former would shoot better than the latter. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 4:06:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly this. And for the guys asking for MP7s and G36Ks. Not going to happen. If you look at the manufacturers and watch their YouTube videos, they are huge, extremely modern facilities filed with the latest stamping and cnc machines. So low labor and energy costs, likely subsidized equipment, they are able to just toss chunks of metal on machines and have nice forged parts by the bucket load. This is why the 1911s are so well made and cheap. I don't think they have the same level of investment in polymers to build MP7s, etc. I also recall the MP5s are built on licensed HK tooling. It would be great if they made some other metal classics like a fullsize Uzi. The days of trained craftsmen being an essential part of gun manufacturing are long, long gone. A brand new state of the art CNC machine doesn't give a flying crap what country it's in. Plug it in, load the software, hit the switch and it starts spitting out in spec parts. Yes the machines need to be maintained but the work force for that is extremely small compared to what factories used to take. A focused investment on just a handful of people and a factory in Turkey can turn out products as nice as anywhere else in the world. The other side of the equation in making a good product is Engineering. A well produced bad design is still a bad product. A tremendous amount of what are thought of as modern dependable designs are actually old enough to no longer be patent protected. Especially in the hunting/recreational shooting market. Copies of Remington 870's, Beretta 390's, 1911's, CZ 75's, Hi-Power's, etc, can be made every bit as high quality as the originals because most of them are being made on far better machinery than the originals. I might be a little leery of some of the new designs but I wouldn't be afraid at all to pick up one of the classics from Turkey. |
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Posted: 12/22/2022 4:07:31 PM EDT
[#50]
I’m hoping TFB will do a turkish 1911 burndown.
The tisas 1911s feel good. I want the shotguns to be good but the sample i have seen isn’t there yet. |
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