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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:08:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Amazing
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:09:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: man, how does this even happen? 
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:10:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How in the world did that tail on the KLA plane not rip off! That's friggin amazing!  |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:10:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn! It's incredible they were both able to land relatively intact. No SHIT... that almost NEVER happens. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:11:02 PM EDT
[#5]
That airfield in the flightradar photo was screwing with my mind.
Had to look it up, it's an RC aircraft "airport". 
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:11:48 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:12:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of those have been used in real inflight emergencies? Would love to see what that plane looked like (as in if it would have been a for sure fatal had the chute not been deployed). Wow on both counts. One plane loses 3/4s of the rear of the airframe and stays intact, the other one just so happens to have an emergency chute. Everybody involved needs new underwear and lottery tickets. As of 1 May 2021, CAPS had been activated 122 times, 101 of which saw successful parachute deployment. In those successful deployments, there were 207 survivors and 1 fatality. No fatalities had occurred when the parachute was deployed within the certified speed and altitude parameters, and two anomalous unsuccessful deployments had occurred within those parameters. Some additional accidental deployments were reported, as caused by ground impact or post-impact fires.[22] As of 18 December 2018, 19 of the aircraft involved in CAPS deployments had been repaired and put back into service.[23] Post 2011, the year of their highest fatality rate to date, Cirrus has experienced an increase in CAPS deployments coinciding with a steady decrease in fatal accidents, giving them one of the best safety records in the industry and less than half the industry average. This was attributed to a new approach to training, particularly in when to deploy the parachute system.[24][25][26] |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:13:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Fucking Cirrus Pilots
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:14:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Looks like a SAM cut right thru it..
I wish I could find the article..it was very well written iirc Vanity Fair..a Brazilian made private jet, on its maiden flight, hit a 727 flying over the Amazon basin. Crazy odds.. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:14:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As of 1 May 2021, CAPS had been activated 122 times, 101 of which saw successful parachute deployment. In those successful deployments, there were 207 survivors and 1 fatality. No fatalities had occurred when the parachute was deployed within the certified speed and altitude parameters, and two anomalous unsuccessful deployments had occurred within those parameters. Some additional accidental deployments were reported, as caused by ground impact or post-impact fires.[22] As of 18 December 2018, 19 of the aircraft involved in CAPS deployments had been repaired and put back into service.[23] Post 2011, the year of their highest fatality rate to date, Cirrus has experienced an increase in CAPS deployments coinciding with a steady decrease in fatal accidents, giving them one of the best safety records in the industry and less than half the industry average. This was attributed to a new approach to training, particularly in when to deploy the parachute system.[24][25][26] Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many of those have been used in real inflight emergencies? Would love to see what that plane looked like (as in if it would have been a for sure fatal had the chute not been deployed). Wow on both counts. One plane loses 3/4s of the rear of the airframe and stays intact, the other one just so happens to have an emergency chute. Everybody involved needs new underwear and lottery tickets. As of 1 May 2021, CAPS had been activated 122 times, 101 of which saw successful parachute deployment. In those successful deployments, there were 207 survivors and 1 fatality. No fatalities had occurred when the parachute was deployed within the certified speed and altitude parameters, and two anomalous unsuccessful deployments had occurred within those parameters. Some additional accidental deployments were reported, as caused by ground impact or post-impact fires.[22] As of 18 December 2018, 19 of the aircraft involved in CAPS deployments had been repaired and put back into service.[23] Post 2011, the year of their highest fatality rate to date, Cirrus has experienced an increase in CAPS deployments coinciding with a steady decrease in fatal accidents, giving them one of the best safety records in the industry and less than half the industry average. This was attributed to a new approach to training, particularly in when to deploy the parachute system.[24][25][26] I am still not sold on a parachute saving your butt. Most of the times GA pilots just spin the plane into the ground in the pattern, or run into shit CFIT |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:15:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back in the 90's, NASA was working to make general aviation much "smarter" and safer. But .GOV bullshit and industry apathy let it die on the vine. The AGATE system would have made this accident nearly impossible. NEARLY. Don't fool yourself, no matter what, accidents will happen. While some will argue 100% automation would prevent it, that is certainly a falsehood.  Fatal Collision over Europe | Boeing 757 Collides with a Russian Tu-154 (With Real Audio) |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:16:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: man, how does this even happen? It's getting awful crowded in my sky. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:17:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: man, how does this even happen? They both have to occupy the same airspace at the same exact time. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:18:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am still not sold on a parachute saving your butt. Most of the times GA pilots just spin the plane into the ground in the pattern, or run into shit CFIT I watch a metric ton of post crash investigation vids and read about them. There have been several VFR into IFR that if the pilots had pulled the chute when they knew they were fucked, while still at altitude, they would have probably survived. Many of the chute pulls HAVE 100% saved lives that would have otherwise been lost. It is worth watching/reading the accident reports. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:18:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NEARLY. Don't fool yourself, no matter what, accidents will happen. While some will argue 100% automation would prevent it, that is certainly a falsehood.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJWWngRxusQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Back in the 90's, NASA was working to make general aviation much "smarter" and safer. But .GOV bullshit and industry apathy let it die on the vine. The AGATE system would have made this accident nearly impossible. NEARLY. Don't fool yourself, no matter what, accidents will happen. While some will argue 100% automation would prevent it, that is certainly a falsehood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJWWngRxusIf the clown in the cirrus would have like, looked out his window he may have seen the metro liner. It reminds me of the time we were flying out of my home airport, they had some retard flying in to land and he called into the tower and gave his location. The tower then responded...he have no idea where the hell you are, because you aren't where you said you are. a little while later, the tower starts yelling... at him to maintain alt and heading and for us to maintain alt and heading. This retard passed right over us maybe be like 300 feet. So me being a jerk, I got on the comms and said bogey in sight. My CFI told me not to talk on the radio to the tower for the rest of the lesson. 
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:18:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did the Key Lime plane have passengers onboard? reported pilot only |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:19:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watch a metric ton of post crash investigation vids and read about them. There have been several VFR into IFR that if the pilots had pulled the chute when they knew they were fucked, while still at altitude, they would have probably survived. Many of the chute pulls HAVE 100% saved lives that would have otherwise been lost. It is worth watching/reading the accident reports. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am still not sold on a parachute saving your butt. Most of the times GA pilots just spin the plane into the ground in the pattern, or run into shit CFIT I watch a metric ton of post crash investigation vids and read about them. There have been several VFR into IFR that if the pilots had pulled the chute when they knew they were fucked, while still at altitude, they would have probably survived. Many of the chute pulls HAVE 100% saved lives that would have otherwise been lost. It is worth watching/reading the accident reports. Your second sentence is what I was touching on, a lot of the videos I watched from Av web all show the pilot waits too long to pull the chute when it's fatal. And of those that safely landed with the chute, how many would still have been ok just landing the plane in the corn? |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:20:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: reported pilot only Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did the Key Lime plane have passengers onboard? reported pilot only Free Peanuts and haircuts on Key Lime Air!! |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:20:27 PM EDT
[#19]
They need to go a lottery ticket and kiss the ground.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:20:38 PM EDT
[#20]
It's amazing that a reporter is so clueless that they can't tell the difference between a jet and a turboprop.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:20:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Wow.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:21:09 PM EDT
[#22]
shouldn't the cirrus have ADS-B?
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:23:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: shouldn't the cirrus have ADS-B? You'd have thought ADS-B would have decreased the number of small aircraft that try to fly right into each other or at airliners but no. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:26:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'd have thought ADS-B would have decreased the number of small aircraft that try to fly right into each other or at airliners but no. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: shouldn't the cirrus have ADS-B? You'd have thought ADS-B would have decreased the number of small aircraft that try to fly right into each other or at airliners but no. Really? damn GA pilots are worst than I thought. I remember when the dude almost hit us, when he miced up to talk to the tower you could hear his TCAS yelling at him  I was like, bro...maybe you should at least look at your fucking GPS or Ipad and take a peak at the DTA number I don't know, for me working and planning the mapping and knowing where you are is the easy part when flying. I have been doing it since I was a little kid in the GOM where all you can see is water and the sun. Using LORAN-C, paper charts, and then finally decent electronic chart plotters it all becomes second nature. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:27:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have always hated those Swearingens. I believe my opinion is changing... Ed Swearingen is actually a cool guy to talk to. I use to do repairs at his house back in the late 70’s. He is one of the engineers responsible for the Cobra attack helicopter. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:33:56 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:34:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The wikipedia page says there have been 122 parachute deployments, 101 were successful, and of all the people on the Cirrus planes, one fatality when CAPS was deployed. Kind of impressive except for that part about 21 possibly failed deployments. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many of those have been used in real inflight emergencies? Would love to see what that plane looked like (as in if it would have been a for sure fatal had the chute not been deployed). Wow on both counts. One plane loses 3/4s of the rear of the airframe and stays intact, the other one just so happens to have an emergency chute. Everybody involved needs new underwear and lottery tickets. The wikipedia page says there have been 122 parachute deployments, 101 were successful, and of all the people on the Cirrus planes, one fatality when CAPS was deployed. Kind of impressive except for that part about 21 possibly failed deployments. Sometimes things dont work when you are out of their operating envelope. The other problem is pilots using them as a get out of trouble free card rather than using/ having common airmanship skills to prevent them from getting into that position. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:35:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Apparently nobody got my breaking bad Margolis reference.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:38:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? damn GA pilots are worst than I thought. I remember when the dude almost hit us, when he miced up to talk to the tower you could hear his TCAS yelling at him I was like, bro...maybe you should at least look at your fucking GPS or Ipad and take a peak at the DTA number I don't know, for me working and planning the mapping and knowing where you are is the easy part when flying. I have been doing it since I was a little kid in the GOM where all you can see is water and the sun. Using LORAN-C, paper charts, and then finally decent electronic chart plotters it all becomes second nature. Still seeing 1200 codes "kiss" then split up, still seeing people fly up OPD Stars at bad altitudes , maneuvering just under bravo shelves then suddenly turning/diving for cover when something big gets too close. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:38:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The wikipedia page says there have been 122 parachute deployments, 101 were successful, and of all the people on the Cirrus planes, one fatality when CAPS was deployed. Kind of impressive except for that part about 21 possibly failed deployments. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many of those have been used in real inflight emergencies? Would love to see what that plane looked like (as in if it would have been a for sure fatal had the chute not been deployed). Wow on both counts. One plane loses 3/4s of the rear of the airframe and stays intact, the other one just so happens to have an emergency chute. Everybody involved needs new underwear and lottery tickets. The wikipedia page says there have been 122 parachute deployments, 101 were successful, and of all the people on the Cirrus planes, one fatality when CAPS was deployed. Kind of impressive except for that part about 21 possibly failed deployments. From what I understand, failed deployments have to do with plane position. The chutes dont work in all positions, so there is a little luck of the draw. Even then, they are good to have! |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:39:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fucking Cirrus Pilots Exactly. Got to listen to tower chew one out just the other day for being a dipshit. Very satisfying. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:39:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fucking Cirrus Pilots The modern version of the v tailed doctor killer. Lol |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:39:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: shouldn't the cirrus have ADS-B? |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:53:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TCAS? They were both on approach to parallel runways. They were supposed to be close together. They should have been using their eyeballs. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:53:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was air traffic controller Donald Margolis involved? Certainly looks like his work, he'll get fired for sure this time around.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 3:57:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As of 1 May 2021, CAPS had been activated 122 times, 101 of which saw successful parachute deployment. In those successful deployments, there were 207 survivors and 1 fatality. No fatalities had occurred when the parachute was deployed within the certified speed and altitude parameters, and two anomalous unsuccessful deployments had occurred within those parameters. Some additional accidental deployments were reported, as caused by ground impact or post-impact fires.[22] As of 18 December 2018, 19 of the aircraft involved in CAPS deployments had been repaired and put back into service.[23] Post 2011, the year of their highest fatality rate to date, Cirrus has experienced an increase in CAPS deployments coinciding with a steady decrease in fatal accidents, giving them one of the best safety records in the industry and less than half the industry average. This was attributed to a new approach to training, particularly in when to deploy the parachute system.[24][25][26] Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many of those have been used in real inflight emergencies? Would love to see what that plane looked like (as in if it would have been a for sure fatal had the chute not been deployed). Wow on both counts. One plane loses 3/4s of the rear of the airframe and stays intact, the other one just so happens to have an emergency chute. Everybody involved needs new underwear and lottery tickets. As of 1 May 2021, CAPS had been activated 122 times, 101 of which saw successful parachute deployment. In those successful deployments, there were 207 survivors and 1 fatality. No fatalities had occurred when the parachute was deployed within the certified speed and altitude parameters, and two anomalous unsuccessful deployments had occurred within those parameters. Some additional accidental deployments were reported, as caused by ground impact or post-impact fires.[22] As of 18 December 2018, 19 of the aircraft involved in CAPS deployments had been repaired and put back into service.[23] Post 2011, the year of their highest fatality rate to date, Cirrus has experienced an increase in CAPS deployments coinciding with a steady decrease in fatal accidents, giving them one of the best safety records in the industry and less than half the industry average. This was attributed to a new approach to training, particularly in when to deploy the parachute system.[24][25][26] My favorite was the guy that saw that the chute was going to set him down on a big pile of junk, or something, so he fire up the engine and motored himself clear of it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:00:03 PM EDT
[#37]
When I saw state park at first I thought it was two small planes site seeing.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:02:18 PM EDT
[#38]
I knew the ol’ Metro was tough, but today we found out just how tough they really are! Many many of my friends flew the “death tube”, and all of them said she was a handful but a really tough airplane... they were all correct in their assessment!
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:02:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the clown in the cirrus would have like, looked out his window he may have seen the metro liner. It reminds me of the time we were flying out of my home airport, they had some retard flying in to land and he called into the tower and gave his location. The tower then responded...he have no idea where the hell you are, because you aren't where you said you are. a little while later, the tower starts yelling... at him to maintain alt and heading and for us to maintain alt and heading. This retard passed right over us maybe be like 300 feet. So me being a jerk, I got on the comms and said bogey in sight. My CFI told me not to talk on the radio to the tower for the rest of the lesson. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Back in the 90's, NASA was working to make general aviation much "smarter" and safer. But .GOV bullshit and industry apathy let it die on the vine. The AGATE system would have made this accident nearly impossible. NEARLY. Don't fool yourself, no matter what, accidents will happen. While some will argue 100% automation would prevent it, that is certainly a falsehood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJWWngRxusIf the clown in the cirrus would have like, looked out his window he may have seen the metro liner. It reminds me of the time we were flying out of my home airport, they had some retard flying in to land and he called into the tower and gave his location. The tower then responded...he have no idea where the hell you are, because you aren't where you said you are. a little while later, the tower starts yelling... at him to maintain alt and heading and for us to maintain alt and heading. This retard passed right over us maybe be like 300 feet. So me being a jerk, I got on the comms and said bogey in sight. My CFI told me not to talk on the radio to the tower for the rest of the lesson. I would think the cirrus would have been the slower of the two, and therefore, hit from behind. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:03:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the clown in the cirrus would have like, looked out his window he may have seen the metro liner. It reminds me of the time we were flying out of my home airport, they had some retard flying in to land and he called into the tower and gave his location. The tower then responded...he have no idea where the hell you are, because you aren't where you said you are. a little while later, the tower starts yelling... at him to maintain alt and heading and for us to maintain alt and heading. This retard passed right over us maybe be like 300 feet. So me being a jerk, I got on the comms and said bogey in sight. My CFI told me not to talk on the radio to the tower for the rest of the lesson. Same could be said of the Metroliner pilots. Looking does help! Though a stupid radio misunderstanding or incorrect ATC call could also contribute, telling the pilot to look for traffic at 9 o'clock and intend 3 o'clock. When I was a kid, 10 at the oldest, I was in the back of a 172 while my Dad was under the hood, and the instructor was busy with him. I had been taught to always be looking around. Well, I looked behind us and saw this at our altitude and about 1/2 mile back.  I told the instructor to look behind us and his eyes got HUGE, he called out his controls and we made a diving 90 degree right turn. I doubt the 141 would have even FELT us, because he certainly made no indication of seeing us. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:04:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: shouldn't the cirrus have ADS-B? Again, they were on parallel approaches. ETA: Like this. ADS-B and TCAS say "A PLANE! A PLANE!" Yeah, no shit.  Spectacular parallel landing San Francisco |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:05:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Holy shit
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:08:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TCAS? Nah, fuck that. No need for that or even looking out the window when you have an "oh shit" handle.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:10:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, they were on parallel approaches. From the look of the tracks, the SR22 was in a right bank, even until impact, so left wing high and I would guess there could be a chance that due to the bank, he couldn't see the Metroliner. ETA: I would love to hear the ATC for who was cleared to land and what the sequencing was supposed to be. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:15:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the look of the tracks, the SR22 was in a right bank, even until impact, so left wing high and I would guess there could be a chance that due to the bank, he couldn't see the Metroliner. ETA: I would love to hear the ATC for who was cleared to land and what the sequencing was supposed to be. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again, they were on parallel approaches. From the look of the tracks, the SR22 was in a right bank, even until impact, so left wing high and I would guess there could be a chance that due to the bank, he couldn't see the Metroliner. ETA: I would love to hear the ATC for who was cleared to land and what the sequencing was supposed to be. The metroliner would have been faster, would it not? ETA:Obviously, it could have been flying slower than the cirrus, but it seems more likely that it was faster, and from the damage, was under the cirrus. If so, he would have been the one to see the cirrus. The cirrus could not have seen him. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:20:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometimes things dont work when you are out of their operating envelope. The other problem is pilots using them as a get out of trouble free card rather than using/ having common airmanship skills to prevent them from getting into that position. You could say the same thing about: auto pilots, MFD’s with moving maps, GPS navigation, etc. New technologies come whether you approve or not. Use it, don’t use it, whatever, you do you. I don’t find it a problem to have more options for any endeavor, especially those with a high price for failure. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:20:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The metroliner would have been faster, would it not? Absolutely, which makes the turning SR22 even less likely to have seen a green plane on a hot, shallow approach, while the extended final was obscured with his wing / underbelly. I am not assigning blame at this point, just pointing out a likely factor why he might not have seen it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:27:32 PM EDT
[#48]
dangerous business
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:32:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still seeing 1200 codes "kiss" then split up, still seeing people fly up OPD Stars at bad altitudes , maneuvering just under bravo shelves then suddenly turning/diving for cover when something big gets too close. Been many years, but uh... 
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:33:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Around Airports is dangerous Busy Class D's like Centennial are definitely where your head needs to be on a swivel. I skimmed the audio. Controller had a mix of IFR arrivals and departures, pattern work, line up and wait, and all three runways moving. It's interesting |
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