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Posted: 5/12/2021 8:43:43 PM EDT
[#1]
My ears are still ringing from the time I flew on one of those Metroliners from SFO to MCE back in 1984.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 8:43:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He overshot the centerline for 17R and ended up in the approach for 17L. I literally just noticed that listening to the comms, I didn't realize there were parallel runways. Yup, big oops on the part of the Cirrus pilot as I assume the Lime was on CL since he was straight in. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 8:54:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cirrus overflew its turn to final and encroached upon the flight path of the Metroliner, which was heading straight in on a long final to a parallel runway. Metroliner was flying cargo. Chute deployed. ADS-B either made no difference or would have made no difference. It happened so quickly by the time you saw the conflict, it would have been over. If both planes had TCAS and it gave both an RA, there might have been time, but it would have been close. Exactly what I speculated after someone said they were landing on parallel runways. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 9:04:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryObviously saved his life but that still looks like a pretty good thud to be landing flat on the ground while sitting in a seat. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 9:06:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously saved his life but that still looks like a pretty good thud to be landing flat on the ground while sitting in a seat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously saved his life but that still looks like a pretty good thud to be landing flat on the ground while sitting in a seat. I think it swung down tail first, Which is why the tail was severed. Though I think it was already partially split from the Swearingens vertical hitting it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 9:26:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOuch. Glad no one was hurt. Visual approach with traffic in sight.... Someone's insurance is gonna get loved tenderly |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 9:38:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are correct. The problem comes when they get reliant on the doodads and not aware of their surroundings outside. It happens a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sometimes things dont work when you are out of their operating envelope. The other problem is pilots using them as a get out of trouble free card rather than using/ having common airmanship skills to prevent them from getting into that position. You could say the same thing about: auto pilots, MFD’s with moving maps, GPS navigation, etc. New technologies come whether you approve or not. Use it, don’t use it, whatever, you do you. I don’t find it a problem to have more options for any endeavor, especially those with a high price for failure. You are correct. The problem comes when they get reliant on the doodads and not aware of their surroundings outside. It happens a lot. My favorite story about that happened to a student on a checkride right before mine. To be fair, the DPE was known to do things to get students rattled. During the checkride the DPE told the student to fly to XYZ airport for short/soft practice. Student dials it into the 430, flies to the field and lands. DPE hands him a pink slip. He dialed the wrong airport into the 430. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 9:40:58 PM EDT
[#8]
A friend of a friend was the one flying the Metro.
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Posted: 5/12/2021 10:55:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A friend of a friend was the one flying the Metro. Glad he made it home fine! |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 10:59:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A friend of a friend was the one flying the Metro. Same here. Happened right before I pulled up to the hangar for a trip. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 11:24:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryThat’s strange. He declared an emergency for an engine failure. Imagine his surprise when he noticed the big gaping hole.  He kept his cool. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 11:26:58 PM EDT
[#12]
 Centennial Mid-Air Collision! 5/12/2021 |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 11:38:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same here. Happened right before I pulled up to the hangar for a trip. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A friend of a friend was the one flying the Metro. Same here. Happened right before I pulled up to the hangar for a trip. This place really feels small worldish at times.  Glad he is ok.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:12:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I knew the ol' Metro was tough, but today we found out just how tough they really are! Many many of my friends flew the "death tube", and all of them said she was a handful but a really tough airplane... they were all correct in their assessment! |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:14:58 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Need to hear the tapes but sounds like the Key Lime plane was cleared visual 14L and the Cirrus 14R, Cirrus Overshot the centerline and clipped the Key Lime. Even with TCAS two non precision parallel approaches was a recipe for disaster, was the Cirrus also given a traffic advisory as a reminder? Sweringer probably has TCAS (not TCAS ii if anyone knows) and who knows what the fuck Cirrus boy was paying attention to. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:26:50 AM EDT
[#16]
APA, one of busiest General Aviation airports in the United States.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:32:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I literally just noticed that listening to the comms, I didn't realize there were parallel runways. Yup, big oops on the part of the Cirrus pilot as I assume the Lime was on CL since he was straight in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He overshot the centerline for 17R and ended up in the approach for 17L. I literally just noticed that listening to the comms, I didn't realize there were parallel runways. Yup, big oops on the part of the Cirrus pilot as I assume the Lime was on CL since he was straight in. Same thing happened May 11th 1996 at APA. RV lined up on wrong runway, landed ahead of a Sukoi, which landed on top of him (couldnt see because of the approach attitude, nose high). |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:33:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: APA, one of busiest General Aviation airports in the United States. I would have called BS, but 958 average air ops a day. Damn, about 1.5x as many as Dallas Love Field. https://www.airnav.com/airport/KAPA |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:37:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My ears are still ringing from the time I flew on one of those Metroliners from SFO to MCE back in 1984. 
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:49:31 AM EDT
[#20]
The skies are busy around here. Centennial airport plus Denver constantly have large and small planes in the area.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:55:08 AM EDT
[#21]
I’m surprised nobody has posted the video from the last Cirrus midair in the APA - Jeffco corridor.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:59:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven't seen this posted yet: http://avherald.com/h?article=4e74b6e5&opt=0 https://i.imgur.com/ogGCXiL.jpg
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Posted: 5/13/2021 3:29:56 AM EDT
[#23]
What will happen to the cirrus guy? Huge peepee slap?
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Posted: 5/13/2021 8:19:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back in the late 70's when I was working on my SEL license out of Salem Aviation (A Cessna dealership) in '150's and '152's the Metroliners were flying out of there (They'd ended the '737 flights) I used to love standing on the ramp and smelling that burnt kerosene smell when they headed for the taxiway. Mid to late 80's and early 90's, I worked as a line boy while I was getting my certificates and ratings. I remember going up to the cockpit, sorry "flight deck" of a Midstate airlines Metro 2, and thinking "I'd give up a nut, to fly one of these". I never got to fly a Metro/Jetstream/B-1900. Thankfully once I started airline flying, I never had to fly an airplane that didn't have at least one real lavatory and flight attendant. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 8:24:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A friend of a friend was the one flying the Metro. does he want to beat the shit out the cirrus pilot or what? |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 10:25:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never seen a Merto with TCAS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Need to hear the tapes but sounds like the Key Lime plane was cleared visual 14L and the Cirrus 14R, Cirrus Overshot the centerline and clipped the Key Lime. Even with TCAS two non precision parallel approaches was a recipe for disaster, was the Cirrus also given a traffic advisory as a reminder? Sweringer probably has TCAS (not TCAS ii if anyone knows) and who knows what the fuck Cirrus boy was paying attention to. The Cirrus pilot was given an advisory and advised tower that he had the Metroliner in sight prior to starting his base turn. He was following another aircraft in the traffic pattern for the runway he was cleared for, while the Metroliner did his straight in to the other runway. Guess he lost sight/awareness of the metroliner and concentrated on his turn to final, and still managed to overshoot far enough to end up on final for the wrong runway (unless he just "blew a fuse" and thought he was supposed to be going for the other runway, forgetting entirely about the metroliner). TCAS is going to be of limited use in such a situation because it is going to give a traffic advisory whether the cirrus makes his turn to final correctly or not (and probably even if he never even turns base and continues on downwind). Resolution advisories were likely completely inhibited because the aircraft was under 1000' AGL at the time of the collision, and likewise would be given regardless of whether/how badly the cirrus screwed up his turn if it wasn't inhibited. And when maneuvering at those distances, the display isn't going to be precise/accurate enough to tell the pilot if the cirrus overshot his turn or not - it is not really intended for close in maneuvering such as an airport traffic pattern, especially with parallel runways. Mike |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 10:28:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryLike most of Juan's videos, this one is gold. The student pilot out on his first solo. 
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Posted: 5/13/2021 10:39:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was air traffic controller Donald Margolis involved? That was my first thought lol |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 10:44:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Animation by student pilot on solo that saw it happen.
 Watched Ballistic Parachute AND Mid-Air Collision during First Student Solo! |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 10:47:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What will happen to the cirrus guy? Huge peepee slap? Maybe some remedial training. His insurance will cost more. ETA: Everyone's insurance will cost more. Mine went up $100 this year, because of shit like this. 
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Posted: 5/13/2021 10:50:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe some remedial training. His insurance will cost more. ETA: Everyone's insurance will cost more. Mine went up $100 this year, because of shit like this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What will happen to the cirrus guy? Huge peepee slap? Maybe some remedial training. His insurance will cost more. ETA: Everyone's insurance will cost more. Mine went up $100 this year, because of shit like this. But doesn't Cirrus publish some list of "success stories"? At least he will always have that. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 11:00:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But doesn't Cirrus publish some list of "success stories"? At least he will always have that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What will happen to the cirrus guy? Huge peepee slap? Maybe some remedial training. His insurance will cost more. ETA: Everyone's insurance will cost more. Mine went up $100 this year, because of shit like this. But doesn't Cirrus publish some list of "success stories"? At least he will always have that. Ha! Maybe they'll send him a hat and a T-shirt. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 11:07:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Cirrus pilot was given an advisory and advised tower that he had the Metroliner in sight prior to starting his base turn. He was following another aircraft in the traffic pattern for the runway he was cleared for, while the Metroliner did his straight in to the other runway. Guess he lost sight/awareness of the metroliner and concentrated on his turn to final, and still managed to overshoot far enough to end up on final for the wrong runway (unless he just "blew a fuse" and thought he was supposed to be going for the other runway, forgetting entirely about the metroliner). Mike Disagree. Just before that the Cirrus pilot acknowledged seeing the Cessna ahead of him in the pattern for 17R. The second advisory (about the Metro this time) I think he noted seeing the Cessna again...not the Metro. Had he seen the Metro he would have pooped his big boy pants. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 11:34:52 AM EDT
[#34]
How far from the runway was the Metro when it was hit? How far/ How long did he have to keep piloting it to the runway?
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:05:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How far from the runway was the Metro when it was hit? How far/ How long did he have to keep piloting it to the runway? About 3 miles. Collision occurred over Cherry Creek Park, which was lucky. That whole area is pretty populated. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:07:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How far from the runway was the Metro when it was hit? How far/ How long did he have to keep piloting it to the runway? Looks to be about 2 to 2.5 miles from the runway. The pilot was lucky he didn't have to fly further or the back may have fallen off.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:12:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Amateur hour
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:16:57 PM EDT
[#38]
So that’s what was causing the traffic there yesterday.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:27:51 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks to be about 2 to 2.5 miles from the runway. The pilot was lucky he didn't have to fly further or the back may have fallen off. I imagine it was a handful. I assume the empennage had a pretty good oscillation of some sort going. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:28:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Were there two lesbian air traffic controllers that were having lovers quarrel? The WHITE Zone is for passenger loading and unloading only - there is no Parking in the RED Zone ... 
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Posted: 5/13/2021 12:58:25 PM EDT
[#41]
There is a shooting range in the park located just East of the approach flight path. Might have gotten real interesting if the Cirrus "landed" there.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 1:01:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a shooting range in the park located just East of the approach flight path. Might have gotten real interesting if the Cirrus "landed" there. http://i.imgur.com/oQGIAzx.jpg News be like "There are unconfirmed reports the aircraft were possibly shotdown by high capacity assault rifles". |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 1:43:58 PM EDT
[#43]
This shows how close the crash site was to the range. Fairly close to some houses as well.
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Posted: 5/13/2021 4:55:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a shooting range in the park located just East of the approach flight path. Might have gotten real interesting if the Cirrus "landed" there. http://i.imgur.com/oQGIAzx.jpg Why? Would the fudds say "fuck you, Mr. Airplane. It's my time to shoot." ? |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 5:21:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never seen a Merto with TCAS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Need to hear the tapes but sounds like the Key Lime plane was cleared visual 14L and the Cirrus 14R, Cirrus Overshot the centerline and clipped the Key Lime. Even with TCAS two non precision parallel approaches was a recipe for disaster, was the Cirrus also given a traffic advisory as a reminder? Sweringer probably has TCAS (not TCAS ii if anyone knows) and who knows what the fuck Cirrus boy was paying attention to. FAR part 135, the aircraft must be equipped with TCAS if it is turbine powered and has 10 to 30 passenger seats (FAR 135.180) ETA I don’t know if Key Lime is configured for pax or cargo there though but iirc they only run 135 out of there. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 5:30:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? Would the fudds say "fuck you, Mr. Airplane. It's my time to shoot." ? Uhhh no. The 100 yard rifle range benches are covered and there are multiple overhead beams with substantial baffles going out to around 50 yards. You can't see overhead at all when shooting. Based on the number of baffle strikes they are very much needed. 
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Posted: 5/14/2021 10:57:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FAR part 135, the aircraft must be equipped with TCAS if it is turbine powered and has 10 to 30 passenger seats (FAR 135.180) ETA I don't know if Key Lime is configured for pax or cargo there though but iirc they only run 135 out of there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Need to hear the tapes but sounds like the Key Lime plane was cleared visual 14L and the Cirrus 14R, Cirrus Overshot the centerline and clipped the Key Lime. Even with TCAS two non precision parallel approaches was a recipe for disaster, was the Cirrus also given a traffic advisory as a reminder? Sweringer probably has TCAS (not TCAS ii if anyone knows) and who knows what the fuck Cirrus boy was paying attention to. FAR part 135, the aircraft must be equipped with TCAS if it is turbine powered and has 10 to 30 passenger seats (FAR 135.180) ETA I don't know if Key Lime is configured for pax or cargo there though but iirc they only run 135 out of there. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:00:25 AM EDT
[#48]
They have 2 metro 23's, and do a lot more passenger work than I remembered
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:18:44 AM EDT
[#49]
Centennial Mid-Air Collision! 5/12/2021 |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:30:01 AM EDT
[#50]
Speculation:
There is one instrument approach to the parallel runways (RNAV GPS for 17L) The Cirrus driver pulled it up for whatever reason. He used the 17L extended centerline to make the base to final turn, but it was the wrong runway. |
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