The government is forcing them to pay more?

No different than UPS for negotiating.
Waive any direct base wage increase but put cost of living adjustments into the base pay per hour..................lol

Yeah... No shit. Are you familiar with how unions work in America?

Are you stupid enough to think the big 3 would be doing business with the UAW if the government wasn't invovled?

Wait until the Chinese start flooding the US market with EVs (aided by the Biden admin's war on ICE vehicles).  

Everyone on Arfcom who has a Holosun optic will be buying one.

Big guys cut going up 40%?  Fucking unions and democrats.

All trucks will now be Tacos

yep

Yeah, I guess I am that stupid.
Will you explain it all to me please?

It’s transient.

Very fuzzy


you have hundreds of people that were working on it for 5 years before a single one was sold to the public labor that should be factored in there too…then hundreds that support it throughout its lifecycle that aren’t on assembly line. Then you have multiple people on each station it moves through every couple minutes throughout that 20 hours. It’s not 20 hours for 1 person to build it.

I honestly don't understand marketing the domestic companies spend their money on, it's fruitless...they bread and butter are big trucks and suvs....and really no one buys their shit boxes if they don't have to

lol fair market value...and govt foring them to pay more? that's not how this works.


I never understood the thought of people here in the us much rather see someone not make shit wages defending some mega corp that the c suite gives to shits about any one, than see out fellow middle class man make a good wage.

The sooner we realize that these companies are fucking us the better.

Quit being big corps bitch

Japanese make better cars anyway. Price yourselves out of the market

The pension isn’t what you all would think it is. And new employees haven’t got a pension since like 2007 sometime around there.

Probably not enough automation I would have to imagine.

I mean how is Japan making arguable much better sedans than the big three here in the USA?

The Honda Accord which is way better than any full size shit box the US companies make does fantastic and for less.

That's one way to get every damn thing automated

Yeah, naw.

Hahahaha.  Rooting for the robots on this one.

Care to list the sedans the US automakers produce in 2023?

Most of those Japanese cars are made here in the US now.

Will compromise and go with 35%?  

Union leadership is never a reflection of the membership. They’re in that position like any other politician—to get what they can get for themselves. Sure, they may have had altruistic motives when they got into doing union work but, by the time they get to a board position, it’s all about keeping their good deal.

The members aren’t getting their money’s worth from any of the leaders.

Hmmmm

"Honda, Toyota and several other foreign automakers manufacture vehicles in the U.S. at factories that do not use union labor."

But democrats are getting their money's worth from the membership. Well...their money anyway.

And people wonder why the japanese have a model run that is multiples of what the typical US automaker tends to be.

Taco's tend to run around a 10 year refresh [save this cycle, seems to be just a wee bit shorter] and because of it, they can cut huge expenditures of every couple of years change everything including body stamping die parts and such.

With the typical complexities of modern vehicles, issues tend to get worked out [for the most part] instead of introducing new glitches every 3 years for a new ''refresh'' and leaving the old ones to remain. [GM's AFM issues is a major ongoing ''glitch'' they absolutely refuse to fix.]

As if domestic full sized trucks weren't expensive enough...

That's an understatement.  

Just a few examples, but they pretty much all look the same.  

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/united-auto-workers/totals?cycle=A&id=d000000070

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/teamsters-union/totals?id=d000000066

https://www.opensecrets.org/ORGS/totals.php?id=D000000178&cycle=2020

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intl-brotherhood-of-electrical-workers/totals?id=D000000069

The build quality is generally better than UAW or Mexican made garbage.

For every dollar of cash benefits a UAW worker gets, he gets nearly the same amount in present and future benefits.

Until you factor in the bean counters forcing to buy from the lowest bidder who just started operations and can’t deliver on time.

You wanna talk about inept union leadership? Don't get me started about NATCA. According to them, we need to be thankful for our massive 1.6% annual pay increase, and we were supposed to get in line or get vaxxed or they wouldn't stand in the agency's way to fire us for refusing. Once NATCA's guy was placed in the White House, they basically became an adjunct arm of FAA management.
All while we see Delta, American, United, and now the flight attendants get much larger raises. Flight attendants get more hours between shifts (12) than we do (9).
@AA717driver

At this point, that is the ONLY reason the Dems support unions/blue collar jobs.  

The only reason they've dumped billions into GM/US auto makers for EV stuff.  The only reason they've pushed for unionizing Starbucks and other retailers.

The problem is the membership, just like most people, are being crushed by inflation.  The BS with the unions is well, BS, but let's be realistic.  Everyone is being nailed to the wall with inflation.

From the Dems perspective any raise for the union members, (and I don't know how this works with the UAW) if dues and political action funds are taken out as a percentage of gross pay, is a win for them.

The workers are happy to get some money, any money, but their leadership are generally put in place to ensure that the money flows up to the Dems.  I've seen the battle first hand with the trade unions and as people start asking questions, complaining about the actions their money is being used for, they consolidate locals and do the same thing we've seen with elections except on a smaller scale.  Because of this, there is a ton of disillusionment about the unions right now.  Add to that the gig economy driven by tech and people would rather not deal with the BS of unions and "work" in the traditional sense.  Even Obamacare put the hurting on the trade unions vs. actually giving them a reason for existence.  

But GM, the UAW, heh, that's just a cash cow as long as they invest some federal dollars in keeping them going.

That 40% raise would only add about $150 to the price of the new vehicle.

You serious Clark?, you know the corporations used their big marketshare to buyout the little guys and/or lobbied the government to restrict competition, just look at what Walmart did to the local mom and pop stores, look at how many corporate farms there are now to family owned more corporate control is not a good thing

The two tiered wage system has created a lot of issues within the hourly wage earners.

Any hires in the past 10 years aren't making anywhere what most here think they make and they don't have some fantastic pension plan either.

Upper management up to and including CEO's and CFO's and ignorant government monkeys [who seldom have any degree or expertise in anything related to actual engineering or pollution controls] have created almost every recent issue seen with domestic automakers. And none of them have taken any cuts in pay and most have seen far more compensation, especially on the company side.

I don't think its going to happen but inflation fucked us all that's for sure

This.  Oil workers didn’t really get much more from the last negotiations when there were record profits than the previous contract.  It appeared the USW didn’t put very much effort into it when they should have had a pretty good position.  12% over four years in comparison.

Humans won't be making cars in the US in ten years.

I worked at a UAW plant early in my career (15 yrs. ago).  Several in the union leadership had side businesses.

It was funny how they would espouse union virtues at work, yet would be about the most anti-union business owners you could ever find when it invloved their wallet.

Yep. Plenty of idiots kept their jobs at the old local GM plant here when it was still in operation. Employees coming in drunk. there was a bar right outside the main gate that used to line up beer mugs with employees names on them for breaks and lunch times. GM put a fence around the area to try to keep employees from going over there. They just cut the fence to go through. One guy was stealing starters for his side "auto repair business", kept his job. Numberous employees caught selling drugs, kept their jobs. Drunks on the job were never fired.

Back when I worked at a fastener company, I had to deliver a bunch of fasteners to a large general contrator who was building a new line building at the plant. GC told me to drive to a spot in the area they were building to drop all the boxes off. Truck we had was a Dodge D50. Some union steward stood in front of the truck at the inside gate and wouldnt move. GC's supervisor came by and told him to either move or he would have some of his crew move him. Big shit show went down right in front of me. After 10 min of yelling between the UAW clowns and the GC, the UAW clowns moved. Never had them block me again. They would flip me (or the asst mgr when he had to take stuff) off when we made deliveries. Hell the UAW's local even called our companies HQ and demanded that they buy GM trucks if they want to deliver to the plant. Our HQ told them to fuck off. Hell the local hall used to have a sign in the parking lot that said "No foreign cars allowed", then changed to "No foreign cars made outside the US" then finally to "No foreign cars made outside North America". Guessing most the GM branded cars the members drove werent made in the US. When the plant was shuttered, there was a lot of people laughing at the plants employees losing their jobs. A whole lot of these employees looked down their noses at anyone who didnt work at the plant. We had a time where people were coming out of stores to their foreign branded cars and finding "Buy American" bumper stickers plastered on their windshields and tires flattened for a few months. Too bad the person(s) that were doing this werent caught in the act and beatened accordingly.

Get outta here with that common sense. Around here everyone thinks fast food workers should only make $5 an hour or less.

Look at the labor market and how bad inflation is. They will probably get something close to that. If that was their starting demand that’s actually pretty reasonable. Because everyone knows in negotiations you settle somewhere in the middle.

We just dropped UPS as our parcel carrier, nationwide, everything is FedEx now.  Those union faggots can suck a big one

People have been claiming Big Macs are going to cost $25 since before I’ve been here.

Fast food workers make $8-10 more an hour now than they did in 2012. Where’s the $25 Big Macs?

Everyone claims to be economic experts on here but they can’t get it into their heads that labor isn’t the only cost of operating. And the cost of a Big Mac has zero to do with employee wages.

If McDonald’s could get that much for a sandwich they would have did it years ago. All that matters is what the public is willing to pay for one. And how high they can go before sales drop enough to hurt profits.

Does it matter how right wing you are when your union dues help get democrats elected?

No they won't they get more than that in benefits.

It's illegal to use union dues for political contributions. The UAW has a CAP fund which raises political money, and it's voluntary.

I think people STILL can't get that thru their heads.

Seems to me that employee theft and employee intoxication on the job are both easily documented so it's hard for me to imagine any independent arbitrator would rule in favor of any employee fired for such offenses.  I'd be very interested to see how hard the company persued any "charges" against these particular employees.

Let them price themselves and the product they make right out of the free market.

Quality is so bad on everything these days, it's almost a crap shoot what you buy anyway. Might as well be the cheaper brand.

In order to keep the bad employees employed, the union local has to give something to management in return.  This type of bargaining goes on every day, not just at contract time.  This is how the union local sells out the productive employees.  The only way to change that is by electing local union officials that have integrity, which isn't easy.  There's a lot of corrupt management at the local level too.