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Posted: 6/19/2017 10:31:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Prayers for the lost.
Any chance we will see pictures of the damage below the water level? Curious how bad it is. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:09:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posted for context for those who have never been in a heavy shipping traffic area. Add night and if you're really unlucky poor weather.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfUsvAHIGJw |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:12:58 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:16:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryIMMA warship, you'll give way I'm bigger than you and on schedule, you fuckin move NOPE, I'm USN, you'll heave to Nope nope nope Boom Navy ship has a multitude of watch standers monitoring radar, lookouts, QMOW, BMOW and OOD. Not to mention IR, and NV and who knows if they were running darkened ship.The Freighter? One dude, driving it. There were multiple failures and I'm gonna stake that whomever was OOD at the time killed 7 people. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:16:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Interdasting....
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:22:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryI've been speculating autopilot. 2 AM Commercial ship SOP One guy half awake on the bridge, watching porn, just there to monitor the alarms. After the collision the one guy on watch had to call the captain, who called the mate, etc. Those things take time, get people awake and dressed, get the report to the captain. Then he formulated the plan to turn back around, call the coastguard, etc. That's probably why we see the long period between the collision and the turn back to the scene. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:22:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryI haven't been to sea since 88 and I assume there have been HUGE changes to navigation equipment and such. Just wondering if there was a SNAFU with a time change on one of the ships causing the 70 min time discrepancy?
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:24:33 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fortunately it's rarely foggy near Japan On the positive side, it's only night half of the time. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:26:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't been to sea since 88 and I assume there have been HUGE changes to navigation equipment and such. Just wondering if there was a SNAFU with a time change on one of the ships causing the 70 min time discrepancy? Airplanes are the same way. The pilots are there for the first and last few minutes and if something goes wrong. The plane flies the departure, route, and approach by itself with minimal midflight inputs from the crew, and usually through knobs or keyboards not yoke inputs. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:28:10 AM EDT
[#10]
 same faith?
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:30:52 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prayers for the lost. Any chance we will see pictures of the damage below the water level? Curious how bad it is. One newspaper report mentioned a large breach very near the keel. RIP to the seven missing. Removed from flooded compartments at dockside by Navy divers. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:33:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote Historydepends
Yokosuka can do repairs. They make it seaworthy enough so it can come back under it's own power to do more extensive repairs at a US port. The USS Porter had $700k worth of repairs to make it seaworthy to return to a US port for more repairs. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 11:54:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryFaith? Sure that ship can transport the Fitzgerald.
It is the Fitzgerald's fate? Who knows?   
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:09:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been speculating autopilot. 2 AM Commercial ship SOP One guy half awake on the bridge, watching porn, just there to monitor the alarms. After the collision the one guy on watch had to call the captain, who called the mate, etc. Those things take time, get people awake and dressed, get the report to the captain. Then he formulated the plan to turn back around, call the coastguard, etc. That's probably why we see the long period between the collision and the turn back to the scene. But even if the AP was on and the mate or AB was sound asleep the destroyer still has at least 6-10 sets of eyes in its wheelhouse. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:12:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been speculating autopilot. 2 AM Commercial ship SOP One guy half awake on the bridge, watching porn, just there to monitor the alarms. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:22:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DECCA, LORAN, and OMEGA were all working when I was at sea. If I remember correctly the only time we turned on the DECCA machine was somewhere near Bishop Rock on the way to the English Channel. Can't remember, it might have been Omega. They all worked pretty good. Loran C persisted with fishermen who felt it was more repeatable than GPS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Somewhat off topic, since there seems to be a lot of good information here, was the decision to discontinue LORAN as a backup to GPS as bad as everyone has suggested? Yes, I'm old. I also know where there is a New In Box LORAN unit for sale. 
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:26:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both vessels were at fault (if two vessels impact, it's because they BOTH didn't do their jobs), and I'd like to think a commercial vessels in those waters would be more alert to problems. With that said, I'm not going to discount what you're saying. I know commercial carriers won't answer radio hails from other vessels, and always wondered if it was because they didn't care, didn't speak English, or simply weren't there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've been speculating autopilot. 2 AM Commercial ship SOP One guy half awake on the bridge, watching porn, just there to monitor the alarms. I'd like to see what happened. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:39:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The cargo ship was certainly on autopilot making its transit but odds are good there were 2 people in the wheelhouse, an AB/helmsman and the mate on watch. What they were doing is pure speculation. Filipinos are usually decent seamen and NYK line is not some fly by night outfit. But even if the AP was on and the mate or AB was sound asleep the destroyer still has at least 6-10 sets of eyes in its wheelhouse. Didn't post that as a means to assign blame, need to wait for the investigation for all the facts, but as context to people in this thread who may not be aware how things work. And primarily to explain why after the collision the merchant returned to base course and speed. The destroyer definitely should have had enough eyes and brains on the situation but we need to read the investigation. There was an airliner that crashed into the Everglades years ago where all three crewmembers in the cockpit were focused on replacing a burned out light bulb in the instrument panel. People get distracted, task saturated, reports go unheeded. Lots of factors go into a mishap. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:45:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a LORAN unit in my old boat. It never worked. I also know where there is a New In Box LORAN unit for sale. USCG took LORAN offline quite some time ago....good luck with that sale.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 1:06:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
USCG took LORAN offline quite some time ago....good luck with that sale. However, the only navigational aids needed in this instance, are a window, two eyes, and a brain to operate them. All the electronics at NASA and NSA would not have made a difference without the above. 
"Avoid the RED light shining in the fucking window, at all costs. Period." Stop, Go, or Turn. But avoid it. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 1:37:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we have a link to the track of the ships? I'd like to see what happened. 
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Posted: 6/19/2017 1:38:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been speculating autopilot. 2 AM Commercial ship SOP One guy half awake on the bridge, watching porn, just there to monitor the alarms. After the collision the one guy on watch had to call the captain, who called the mate, etc. Those things take time, get people awake and dressed, get the report to the captain. Then he formulated the plan to turn back around, call the coastguard, etc. That's probably why we see the long period between the collision and the turn back to the scene. Apparently there was a 55 minute gap in between the collision and it actually being reported. https://www.rt.com/news/393048-japan-destroyer-collision-late/ |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 1:58:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently there was a 55 minute gap in between the collision and it actually being reported. https://www.rt.com/news/393048-japan-destroyer-collision-late/ There's also discrepancy about the collision occurring around 1:30 AM or 2:30 AM. I'll wait for the investigation. It's possible there is a Zulu/GMT/Local time discrepancy in the report time stamps. But as I speculated above I think it took the MV a while to determine what happened (by a competent authority on the MV) and then realize what they needed to do, turn around, make reports, etc. The whole time that was happening the ship was on auto pilot (I'm speculating). I don't think it implies a motive of deception or intentional harm. More likely task saturation. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 2:50:32 PM EDT
[#24]
 ACX Crystal vs USS Fitzgerald (2017-06-16 ) Why the U Turn? Mapping the ACX Crystal's collision with the USS Fitzgerald using publicly available info |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 2:53:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote History |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 3:14:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like it returned to render aid, and then afterwards was diverted to a different port. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like it returned to render aid, and then afterwards was diverted to a different port. 16:30Z Course has changed +18°, speed dropped slightly, 1.2kn. The collision has likely already happened I love that Matt Bracken is the first reply 
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Posted: 6/19/2017 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Do we know yet if the merchant was "overtaking" or if this was a "crossing" situation?
Overtaking is the only thing that makes sense, collision occurred at the very first course alteration by the merchant. If that's the case the Fitzgerald is the stand on vessel; overtaking(merchant) is the give way. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 3:57:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we know yet if the merchant was "overtaking" or if this was a "crossing" situation? Overtaking is the only thing that makes sense, collision occurred at the very first course alteration by the merchant. If that's the case the Fitzgerald is the stand on vessel; overtaking(merchant) is the give way. If he was overtaking on the starboard side, that is generally frowned upon. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 4:08:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he was overtaking on the starboard side, that is generally frowned upon. we'll let it slide, He wasn't a real sailor, he was in subs.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 4:16:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we'll let it slide, He wasn't a real sailor, he was in subs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If he was overtaking on the starboard side, that is generally frowned upon. Trying to make sense of the track and the location of the damage. I guess we don't have course and speed data on the Fitzgerald eh? |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 4:56:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, almost  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is why the base at Subic Bay should never have been allowed to close. As bad as that is, that was well within the ship repair facility's ability to repair.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:24:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Prayers for the fallen.
How long do these naval investigations take? Years? Months? Any speculation when we'll know what happened? |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:37:33 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:40:16 PM EDT
[#34]
As others have stated, will be interesting to see the extent of the damage.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:43:05 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:46:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryBy the time the crew realized WTF happened they killed the auto pilot and pulled the U-turn to return to the scene of the accident to take a look at what they just ran over. The strange tracking near the scene was the result of the cargo ship hunting the area for whatever they hit. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:51:39 PM EDT
[#37]
RIP to all those lost.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:56:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every ship at sea is running radar, especially thee Navy. 
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:57:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Filipino crew. But wouldn't make a lot of sense given the way it looks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't read 13 pages, has anyone covered the terrorist angle? Intentional ramming? |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:00:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote History |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:03:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both vessels were at fault (if two vessels impact, it's because they BOTH didn't do their jobs), and I'd like to think a commercial vessels in those waters would be more alert to problems. With that said, I'm not going to discount what you're saying. I know commercial carriers won't answer radio hails from other vessels, and always wondered if it was because they didn't care, didn't speak English, or simply weren't there. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:08:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Imagine a container ship coming at you in daylight. You don't see the length, you see the narrow width. You also may have to look up to see navigation lights.
At night, and at distance, it could look like an airplane. Close in, you might not see it at all as it's so much higher and narrower than a broadside view. I'm pretty sure the guys on the freighter deck were looking down at the smaller Frigate. Just my "estimations." |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:10:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryI can't believe any sane mariner would do a 180 in a shipping lane as busy as that one. (or any other) |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:18:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Where was the TAO and combat backing up the bridge?I bet the JO's had their face buried in the radar and failed to walk on the bridge wing and assess the situation, I've seen it happen so many times as OOD.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:23:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where was the TAO and combat backing up the bridge?I bet the JO's had their face buried in the radar and failed to walk on the bridge wing and assess the situation, I've seen it happen so many times as OOD. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:27:13 PM EDT
[#46]
I can't imagine what that would feel like being on the ship. Based on the damage does this look like an angled collision or was this a broadside? I can imagine the violence of a broadside if it would just stop the ship dead in its tracks and spin it. Or maybe it would just sink it?
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:32:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistorySherlock Holmes |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:32:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine a container ship coming at you in daylight. You don't see the length, you see the narrow width. You also may have to look up to see navigation lights. At night, and at distance, it could look like an airplane. Close in, you might not see it at all as it's so much higher and narrower than a broadside view. I'm pretty sure the guys on the freighter deck were looking down at the smaller Frigate. Just my "estimations." |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:33:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it's scary out there at night. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 6:35:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Looks like a simple fuckup on the part of the DDG. Expect a training film to be made of this one. |
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