This war wouldn't have happened if DJT was in charge.

Bidet/Zero are using this for personal gain and the war would have ended months ago if we brokered peace instead of ill advised funding a war which could still escalate.

Wait until China jumps Taiwan, Bidet is owned by Bejing but our military should be solidly behind Taiwan.

Lol

It would explain why the Russians were so upset about the raid, while being tight lipped about what the Ukrainians accomplished against them.

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These guys don't realize Ukraine has been at war with Russia since 2014. They've gained a lot of experience with fighting in a war against a mostly modern military. Not to mention that Ukraine has far superior command system versus Russia's Highly centralized command.

Bad day for the "I agressively don't care about the war but Fuck Ukraine" crowd . Thoughts and prayers.

Why should they?

As soon as Putin withdraws from Ukraine and Crimea, then Ukraine should negotiate peace.

Yea, Russia never invades other countries.

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Cope and seethe comrades.

Hear here.

Japan shouldn't worry about China at all, just hire ukraine instead of f15s amirite?

What tier was Afghanistan?

Brokering a peace deal with Russia in control of Ukrainian territory is borderline impossible for a number of reasons. To begin, the bare minimum that Russia is going to ask for in a peace deal is retaining control of Crimea and controlling the entirety of the Donbas, which is unacceptable for the Ukrainians. Secondly, there's no guarantee that the Russians would even abide by a peace deal (the Minsk agreements provide significant evidence that they won't). In all likelihood, the Russians would just use the peace deal to lick their wounds before coming back for more Ukrainian territory.

The only acceptable outcome for the Ukrainians and the west as a whole is one in which Russia is at least pushed back to the pre-February 2022 borders (preferably the pre-2014 borders), Russia's ability to wage conventional war is utterly destroyed, and the Ukrainians are armed with enough Western weaponry to discourage any additional Russian aggression. So long as Western support continues, this outcome is by far and away the most likely one.

However, if we flake out, stop supporting the Ukrainians, and push for a peace deal, it sends a message to the enemies of the west that Western will is weak when it comes to protracted military conflicts. No one (especially now) denies the utter superiority of Western weapons and doctrine. The main question regarding the west is, do we have the willpower and commitment to win? After our incursions in Iraq, Afghanistan, and to a certain extent Syria, that's a question that's open to debate. In my opinion, it's imperative that we demonstrate that we don't lack the will to enforce our hegemony on the globe. If we flake out and offer Russia control of the Donbas and Crimea (the minimum they would accept), it lets the enemies of the west know that they even if they can't beat the west militarily, they can outlast us politically. I don't want them to come away with that lesson.

I have a sneaky suspicion (hope I am wrong) that the Dems will get us into a war to take the attention off things here at home.  Plus the industrial war machine needs to stay busy so all the politicians can line their pockets.

MSC just moved a shit load of gear and some top tier units to Slovenia all under the guise of an "exercise" and we prepositioned some strategic bombers in the area.  This isnt OPSEC, they took pics and announced it on social media.

What are you talking about a bipartisan group just attached an amendment to the NDAA that gives the DoD a blank check to spend as much of their budget as they want on weapons systems with any of the normal caveats waved and no accounting or tracking requirements, whoohoo!  Get yer defense industry stocks now!  They’re doin’ great.

Does a radio-controlled gliding bomb classify as a drone?  Or they have to be self propelled?

Russia wants us to negotiate with them over Ukrainians head. To treat them as a piece of pie that two larger powers negotiate on who gets what. Well that isn't a game we should play at all. Especially if we are among others calling this an old 19 Century Imperial land grab.  We can't allow Russia to win their bullshit information campaign that USA is puppeteering Ukraine and the West. That no country has any agency in our Alliance  despite all the times we get told to pound sand by them. It is Ukrainians who have to decide when they're willing to negotiate.

Who’s going to send us hundreds of billions of dollars and piles of weapons when we’re directly involved? Oh that’s right, no one. Get outta here with that shit dude, war is bad period.

Agreed that the fly by radio wave warfare is the wave of the future unless they are readily co-opted by your enemy and used against you like the hijacked drone(s) we lost to Iran.

If that is too readily done then you are back to humans in the seats.

Just think what little groups of pissed off Marines could do to the pacific with drones and anti ship missiles.

Absolutely.

And, we cannot lower ourselves to act as Russia's peer. They are no true bear as they once were. They are an angry housecat arching its back and puffing its fur beneath the American Eagle's gaze.

Russia must eventually negotiate with their actual peer: Ukraine. Russia can choose to do that (probably starting with getting rid of Putin) or they can be forced to by circumstance.

The one thing Russia will not do, no matter how much they try to convince us through hissing posturing and bluster: Russia will never commit suicide by initiating nuclear combat over their failed imperialist aggression when there is no actual threat to the Russian heartland. Russia, and Russian leaders, are first about their own survival. Putin knows he can fight internal power struggles and oppress his population to hold onto his power in the face of expeditionary defeat, but he cannot get into a nuclear war without being shot and pushed out a window for even trying.

Yeah, Russia went from having the second most powerful conventional army in the world to having the second most powerful army in Ukraine.  And their command and control/logistics are almost 109% responsible for tgat.

To be fair... The fire DID go out when she sank.

All true and to add a few points:

Ukraine no longer has an incentive not to attack Crimea.  It did -- in 2014 -- have that incentive. It let Russia keep Crimea in order not to ignite a much larger war. Now that a much larger existential war has come to them, the 2014 paradigm no longer applies.  What's the worst that can happen? Russians bombing Kiev? They already do.

Secondly, UA cannot afford for Russia to keep the land corridor Crimea -- Russia, because Mariopul and others are key port cities in the sea of Azov. UA has two major sea port areas, one in the sea of Azov and the other in the Black sea (Odessa). Now that they lost Mariupol, they only have Odessa. And Crimea / Kherson   is too close to Odessa. Really Odessa would be the prime target of Russia, even more important than Kiev in some sense. It's the low hanging fruit, though well fortified. If Russians do go after Odessa, it can become their Stalingrad.

The other mortal danger to UA is that Crimea has been used -- and will be used again as a staging area for an attack. When I saw these developments in 2014, I said it's not a big deal, Crimea has always been Russian and didn't pay much attention, like everyone else, not realizing that Kremlin was playing a multiple move chess combination, Crimea was essential for this attack on Feb 2022..

So, UA cannot afford to let Russia  keep Crimea due to the constant existential threat and Russia cannot afford to give up Crimea due to its sea fleet hosted there - Sevastopol, etc. Plus it's a major blow to Kremlin's ego.

I predict that UA will sever the land corridor between Crimea - Russia by a massive, focused blow somewhere at a single point of failure and probably disassemble  the Kerch strait bridge. Leaving Crimea surrounded and difficult to reinforce. Except by air and sea.

There is an even bigger problem with the Crimean bridge, it's build to keep traffic constricted, many UA trade ships can't pass through as it was deliberately built to keep them from passing.  It's too low and to narrow. Russia can park a single barge and block all traffic. Exactly as it was designed. It has to be removed or at least redesigned.  

2023 is going to be an interesting for sure. Apparently it will go on for several years.

Russia wants us to stop propping up the Ukraine economy because they can't freeze the conflict otherwise.  They didn't beat the Ukrainians without assistance in a straight up fight in March.  They sure as shit can't beat them now.  So, they are just trying to destroy them economically to bring them to the table.  But Russia has a GDP less than Texas, so just the combined Eastern European states, none of whom love Russia, can arguably keep Ukraine alive.  Russia stands zero chance of freezing the conflict as long as the US and EU are engaged.

They should form the bottom of that sea drone in the shape to accept a torpedo underneath. Drop the torpedo when in range. That should be able to break the back of their f'ing ship.

If Belarus gets involved....I'd love to see Poland say F'it...and roll in to knock out the last significant dictatorship in Europe. They already had to crack down about 2 years ago due to rioting in the streets. I don't think Lukashenko is holding on by much. For this reason, I don't think he will commit soldiers in Ukraine. He might offer support to launch attacks but no troops.

Poland would have rolled already if NATO wasn't holding them back.

lol. Russia military

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto - boat.

FUCK HIM.  The only "bone" he deserves thrown his way is a polonium pellet in the shin.

Submerging a burning warship under a few hundred feet of water has been found to quickly extinguish fires ...

Bigger_Hammer

The fires do tend to go out when you sink.

Deserves got nothing to do with it.

Doing some strategic modeling and simulation wargaming via World of Warships this morning has 100% confirmed this.

Extremely doubtful that Ukraine wasn't already swimming in NATO gear, advisors, and outside assistance during the initial Russian attack.

The IL-76 that were shot down that supposedly carried the main VDV element for seizing Kiev - probably never would have happened were it not for all of the NATO overwatch of the entire airspace over Ukraine, at the very least. Those shootdowns pretty much decapitated the Russian blitz effort. The Ukranians knew exactly where they were and where they were headed, in a way that seemed to me to be well beyond their abilities.

I'd bet a case of Vodka that the Russian High Command has their own "Shadow Watch" on Putin to ensure Putin can't "burn it all down" if he decides he can't win the war or stay in power.  

Russians (despite being bastard Orc invaders of other countries) do love their own families & country too much to let Putin destroy it all under megatons of American Nuclear Response if Putin "acts wildly irresponsibly" by taking warfare against NATO or launching nukes.

Bigger_Hammer

LOL. The media was having a field day after the Muskova. So many "Ukraine just sank their battleship" jokes on all the major news networks. lol

That's one way to guarantee getting nuked

The Estonians have been well ahead of Russia intel-wise for years; because they have to be to survive.  They led the way on a lot of the Ukraine intel we dumped publicly.  I imagine Ukraine is in the same place as much as we might like to believe otherwise. There's more than a few former Warsaw Pact nations, albeit now NATO members, with radar surveillance of that area and no love for Russia.

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Ukraine is simply becoming a test bed for some of our new tech and TTPs. Unfortunately, nations hostile to us are taking notes as well

Good.

Same drones they used on the bridge, or nah?

Only thing better would be if Zelensky were driving the explosive laden craft.

So why did Russian sources say the minesweeper had major damage?

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lol, you sure picked an accurate username