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BORTAC guy...Whoever you are, thank you for doing what needed to be done. I wish I could buy you a drink and shake your hand  

I wont risk my account talking about the rest of those worthless sons of bitches. I hope there's a deep corner of Hell for them to spend eternity. Cowards. Yellow bellied COWARDS.

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@texashomeserver

If you're not going to post/link the video with the unedited audio, just answer ONE question:

What is the latest actual timestamp that has audible children's cries heard? I think we'd all like to know if the rooms were mostly silent after the officers showed up at ~11:37, or if they literally stood around continuing to do nothing even as they heard children continuing to scream/cry out.

It would definitely underline Arredondo's claim that he transitioned to a barricaded suspect because "they were all dead".

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Ayup.  

And the fucking mayor called the media ‘chickens’ for releasing the footage of the low iq cowards  In a just world all of them would be drawn and quartered.

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The most interesting aspect of the released video so far is that the response by the initial group of officers wasn't absolutely horrible; they were moving on the classroom and about to enter, but a few rounds came at them through the door and the cops completely fell apart. Almost like they had gone through the motions in their active shooter training, but weren't prepared mentally at all (like the fat guy waddling away and having a panic attack about dust in his hair while children were being shot). There's going to be a lot of psychological study produced from this. And while the source claims that the audio of the screaming children was removed out of respect for the families, it also removes a lot of context to the officer's actions. I mean it's bad enough that they were waiting in the hallway, but apparently they kept waiting even though at points they could hear the children scream and cry from inside the classroom.

Also if the shooter had been been denied entry to the school for three minutes, like if he had to shoot out the window and fiddle around to get in, the cops would have caught him; shows how important controlled access is.

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The audio has obviously been edited, and I suspect, based on how it sounds, that they cut all the high frequencies and did some sample tricks to remove the screaming.  I've done that sort of thing and it's not hard.

I don't think that the general public needs to hear kids screaming as they bleed out.  But some people do need to hear, and they need to tell us about it.

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I only watched parts of it, but fairly uneventful, in that, as others stated, the cops stood around and didn't do shit.  It's horrifying, it's disgusting, and it's infuriating.  Watching it and knowing what was happening while these cops stood around, knowing the terrible outcome, it's just, like a punch in the guts.  

I just can't even understand it.  They have the guns, they have the gear, they had opportunities, they had numerical superiority, they probably could have even had surprise if they'd taken it.  How is it not ingrained into every cops mind that you GO IN!  You move TOWARD the shooter. You don't back down. You take the risk of getting shot yourself in order to save others. How the fuck did they all chicken out?   It's one thing for someone unarmed to run away or freeze, it's even different if you're CCW-ing and all the liability and risk that comes with moving towards the action, but to be fucking law enforcement and to freeze and run away, it's beyond the pale.  There's no words...

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There are several lines of failure which need to be addressed:
- The complete failure by law enforcement in their execution which breached standards, leading to death
- The complete failure by the school to execute lockdown procedures which resulted in death
- Our mental health system is broken at its core

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I bet the shooter had a sealed juvenile record and was known by authorities.
The rest just makes me sick.

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The police have spent the last several years showing us exactly who they are (Portland, Minneapolis, Kenosha are just a few that come to mind).

As shocking and disappointing as Uvalde is, it is also not surprising.

You are on your own.
No one is coming.
Prepare accordingly.

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Trucker hat BORTAC guy arrives at 12:47:02 on the counter. Luckily he slips in behind stethoscope hall-monitor guy when his back was turned, and is able to work his way up to the front. He spends about 2 min talking to other Border Patrol guys and getting situated with what's going on. At 12:49:20 he decides it's Fo-Time and makes his move to the door. They make entry at 12:50:01

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They didn't even use a shield, dug the corners and went to work.

No keys needed, no shields needed, no excuses needed.  Trucker hat Bortac guy is known to not tolerate nonsense and get things done. He is the real deal.

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There are some men on that video that will be ashamed for the rest of their days.

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All the cop defenders can say "you weren't there" all you want, but I'd rather be dead than have the screams of children being shot live in my head forever knowing I could have acted but didn't.

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If there is any justice in this world,...

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What would you do?

Seriously. You're now in charge of Texas DPS, or whatever Texan agency you want, circle January 2022. What do you do differently? What do you differently that would actually work? What is it in the hiring process you change? The training courses that are offered? The electoral voting of leadership of local agencies?

I've been saying all along that "cowardice" isn't the explanation. It's the answer that everyone wants to hear, because it's easy and satisfies the righteous anger, and dovetails oh so nicely with the ragebait articles, and doesn't need any further analysis or worry. There was a clump of cowards in Texas that day, and let's go imprison/execute them all, and that makes the world a safe place again. Or maybe it's just that all cops are cowards, our tax dollars are wasted, and maybe those anarchists have a point and we should just give it a whirl, no? Texas DPS Director McGraw would like you to believe it was all the fault of a single man (who isn't the shooter, I might add). Is he right?

The answers aren't simple. They aren't a matter of adding a new PowerPoint to the training doctrine. They can't be solved via legislation, or incarceration. Uvalde is just the latest in a long line of human violent conflict that shows that leadership in battle is a rare, precious resource that's impossible to mandate and incapable of artificial creation in a lab. Either it's there at the onset of the gunfight, or it's not.

Honestly the video released yesterday doesn't really show anything new or groundbreaking. The shooter had time to fire over 100 rounds in the classroom before any officers entered the building. We see nothing of the officers outside in this video, though their coordinated entry suggests they staged way too long outside...we don't get to see how, and where.

It's been said over and over again, but the majority of cops are not gunfighters. Their agencies give them a box or two of ammo a year, they aren't shooters, and they don't even know what they don't know. The endless critique of random SROs and patrol cops for not being DEVGRU utterly ignores that the average cop might get 24 hours of training..on a good year...across medical, legal, driving, firearms, ground fighting, computer systems, and equipment usage. To say nothing of the mandatory diversity, equity, and bullshit training. You can't get blood out of a stone. All of this means that when shit hits the fan, it takes some seriously commanding leadership to roll in, make a fast plan, and execute it with guys who aren't trained or equipped for a SWAT-level action. Particularly if they're spread across half a dozen different agencies.

After Parkland, I said at my old agency that we would have done no better on average if it had happened in my AO instead of Parkland. After Parkland, the average patrol guy's view in my area was still "wait for backup, don't go in solo". I went off and wargamed with my SROs how best to ram school gates with my cruiser to come into the fight; most guys didn't even think about what they'd do.

I'll just say this, the capstone of all the things no one here wants to hear: if you grabbed 100 random arfcommers, 90 of them would be the guys hanging at the bottom of the screen by the camera, weapon at the ready but unsure what to do or where to go. 8 or 9 guys would be the meds dude, directing people to the fight or making plans for the wounded. 1 or 2 of those 100 would actually be bumrushing that door and working triggers. That was true in Heraclitus's day back in good ol' 500 BC, and is still true today. Period.

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By prevent I'm speaking solely to the realm of LE. Good luck trying to get schools to change their policies, and bless your heart if you think they can all be hardened sufficiently to stop a random kid with a gun. The blunt truth is that the school was a soft target, and even a minute or two inside of a soft target is sufficient to kill double digits.

As for the mental health side, I took a guy into custody last weekend who was quite likely going to go active shooter, and told me he had loaded up his AK to get ready. The news will never know how often that happens...but it only takes one failure, one time, for Uvalde to occur. And in some cases there are no warning signs at all.

No, I'm speaking specifically to the question I posed earlier: if you could go back in time as head of whatever level of LE you want, and try to get a better different set of cops in that door that day, or get that same set of cops to go in and do it right, what actions do you take? I'm literally trying to write lesson plans for our firearms program, and want to know [i[how do you get people to do it right?[/i]

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So for those who don't want to watch, here's the summary:

11:33.02 gunman enters school
11:33.27 gunman enters classroom
11:35.57 at least 6 cops, at least 2 of which have rifles, enter the school and make their way in
11:36.09 at least 8 cops are in the hallway, maybe 4 are now "stacked" outside the classroom, including at least two rifles
11:36.17 at least 9 cops are in the hallway, at least 6 "stacked" outside the classroom
11:36.58 shots are fired and all the "stacked" cops scramble away
11:37+ nothing happens (except victims dying) for a very long time...

So thoughts are:

Mistake 1: if there are already 6 people coming in at 11:35.57, I'm sure there were at least 1-2 that could have entered the school even earlier during the initial 100 round shooting spree... why did they wait outside and not enter the school?

Mistake 2: You've got a 4 man stack for two classrooms at 11:36.09. At least two of them have rifles. Why aren't you going in????

Mistake 3: Only 8 seconds later you've now got 6 people stacked at the doors; WHY ARE YOU STILL SITTING WAITING OUTSIDE THE CLASSROOMS?

There's nothing beyond this really worth commenting. The rest of the time is just kids bleeding out for the next hour+

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Everything you say is from the heart. And well and fine and true. And yet none of it makes a damn bit of difference in answering one simple question:

How do you prevent the next Uvalde?

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The most interesting aspect of the released video so far is that the response by the initial group of officers wasn't absolutely horrible; they were moving on the classroom and about to enter, but a few rounds came at them through the door and the cops completely fell apart. Almost like they had gone through the motions in their active shooter training, but weren't prepared mentally at all (like the fat guy waddling away and having a panic attack about dust in his hair while children were being shot).

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I don't know how anyone can defend the cops in that video. If the BORTAC dude hadn't arrived they would have still been standing around at midnight.

I bet they're good at writing speeding tickets though.

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OK, I'm not going to make a new thread. But, prepare yourself.
There is an unedited version of the video out.
In that version you can hear what is happening.
You will be able to hear the cries and screams of the children
All of the cops did nothing while that hallway was full of children screaming. And dying.

This is going to get worse when the unedited version gains traction.

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Just ... wow ...

I don't recall the major event after Parkland (whatever was less than 25 yrs ago) but I do recall almost taking a perma-ban for an un-tempered response so will do better this time.

The ONLY goal in this situation is to give evil a different target than helpless children.

When kids are dying, I'll take a mall cop 3min into it vs. DEVGRU who happens to be training 30min away.

There is no 'good plan' when evil does sht like this. None. So either nut up and go stand in front of it or get out of the fkin way so better men than you can do it.

What to do differently? Give evil a different target so it stops killing helpless children.

Whay is the training? Give evil a different target so it stops killing helpless children.

What is the SOP? Give evil a different target so it stops killing helpless children.

What are TTPs? Give evil a different target so it stops killing helpless children.

What do we expect of all men? Give evil a different target so it stops killing helpless children.

What do we pay cops to do if necessary? Give evil a different target so it stops killing helpless children.

What should everyone old, young, rich, poor, straight, gay, jew, gentile expect of every other American Citizen? Give evil a different target so it stops killing helpless children. And if you are unwilling or unable to do this then get the fk out of the way for anyone who will/can.

Anyone who reads this and doesn't understand it is neither my countryman nor welcome here.

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I honestly wonder if the cops were told to stand down in order for the casualties to increase.

The power grabbers absolutely do not care about human life--they would view dead children as a necessity towards their goal.

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By prevent I'm speaking solely to the realm of LE. Good luck trying to get schools to change their policies, and bless your heart if you think they can all be hardened sufficiently to stop a random kid with a gun. The blunt truth is that the school was a soft target, and even a minute or two inside of a soft target is sufficient to kill double digits.

As for the mental health side, I took a guy into custody last weekend who was quite likely going to go active shooter, and told me he had loaded up his AK to get ready. The news will never know how often that happens...but it only takes one failure, one time, for Uvalde to occur. And in some cases there are no warning signs at all.

No, I'm speaking specifically to the question I posed earlier: if you could go back in time as head of whatever level of LE you want, and try to get a better different set of cops in that door that day, or get that same set of cops to go in and do it right, what actions do you take? I'm literally trying to write lesson plans for our firearms program, and want to know [i[how do you get people to do it right?[/i]