There's a reason they always try to push Gun control bills through as fast as possible after an incident.

They want to get it done when suburban soccer mom suzie is all hysterical, before the adults take charge; or if the narrative changes (which it did with the release of these videos).

Do you think we'd have seen that gun control bill passed if this video had been released 24 hours after the shooting stopped?

They would have had to kill me if I had been the cop with a kid/wife down and bleeding out.


I would rather die than know I didn’t try to save them.

Where was Chief Arredondo? Never saw him.

Unfortunately the only training most police in the country have is that provided and mandated by their police department.

...and unfortunately most of that is pretty terrible, and conducted infrequently. Competence with issued weapons is rare in the policing world.

#SadButTrue

Serious question - are they afraid of consequences if they defy orders?   If someone is telling them not to go in could they be opening themselves up to prosecution if they go in anyway, especially if they accidentally shoot the wrong kid.  Just wondering if the liability mindset is part of the problem here.  Could legislation exempting them from prosecution in these cases avoid this?

You'd think that, but Parkland was about that bad and that faded from memory quickly enough to allow this dogshit circus. So I dunno. But I hope you're right.

Courage and leadership matter.

Lieing piece of shit! Besides the two bortac guys who ended the shooter and rhe father/cop of one of the victims I hope the rest are fucked for life due to there cowardice.. I've never seen such cowards in 15 years of law enforcement..school shootings and active shooters is what we trained the hardest on, these guys have NO excuse and there previous lies earlier on after this incident should be hammered on.  They all don't need to work in law enforcement ever again.. I have so much more to say, but I best not... Texas DPS... fuckin cowards and everyone of them I see from here on out will hear it from me. There colleagues should be ashamed.

For all the saber rattling going on by the "professionals" here that would've done it better-- I'm not convinced this scenario would've happened ANY differently no matter where it occurred.

I think the only difference in the future will be the direction which the cops are pointing their weapons when the next incident happens. Enough parents have seen what happened in Uvalde--I don't think the next department will get the peaceful response this one has.

compare this footage to the St Francis Medical Building footage from here in Tulsa and see the stark difference.

TPD, OHP and virtually every other agency within a 30 minute drive busted in and secured the area. I'd like to add that the medical grounds is highly confusing due to streets and buildings.

I thought that ever since Columbine the SOP was to engage the shooter as soon as 1-2 police officers arrive. Unfortunately, that strategy requires some courage. The NEW strategy should be to open all doors. Let the kids out and the (armed) parents in.

Not stand there with body armor and a rifle and let that shit go down.

This is not a difficult problem to solve. Dangerous, yes, but not difficult. You find the guy doing the killing and you kill him.

...which, thankfully, when someone with a goddamn spine showed up he proceeded to do precisely that.

In Parkland, unarmed JROTC cadets and an unarmed football coach put themselves between the shooter and innocent people in an attempt to save lives. They had no duty to do this. They had sworn no oath, had no body armor, no backup, and no weapons...but they figured out what the right thing to do was even without any training and did whatever they could.

Let's not pretend that this gaggle of shitheads was just insufficiently trained.

I've been involved in training for 20+ years now. Police, in the main, don't fucking train beyond department minimums. And for 20 years I've heard police from all over the place bleat and whine about how training should be provided and they should be paid to do it on department time and not lose any of their own time because reasons. Meanwhile every other profession in the goddamn country involves people investing their own time and their own money in learning or improving skills that are useful in their employment. If someone works in IT, medicine, construction, law, accountancy, or any host of other professional tracks in this country, they spend hours outside of the office learning or honing skills they use on the job. They take time away from their lives and their families to get it done because that's what it takes. Even the fucking useless HR drones do that shit on their own time and their own dime. If you are in a job that doesn't involve asking if you want fries with that, you are going to have to spend your own time and your own money improving your skills just to keep up. That's the reality of the working world.

But cops? No, somehow cops are uniquely exempt from the requirement damn near everyone else in society has to invest in their own capability.

You're not wrong that any number of departments in this country would fail just as spectacularly as Uvalde's cowards did. But that's because those departments have a toxic leadership culture full of cowards. Which means they produce a department full of toxic cowards who will fail like this. Partly that's on the voters for not holding that sort of leadership accountable...but whenever he voters do make any attempt then the shitbags wrap themselves in the flag and claim their heroes to avoid any accountability.

...just like the Uvalde cowards have done here.

The bottom line is that policing in the United States is islands of competence, professionalism, and courage under continuous assault by tidal waves of mediocrity and cowardice. But that doesn't excuse the failure of individuals who are swimming in that shit to do better, especially when it's this fucking obvious.

One of the reasons there's so much suck is because so much of it gets wrapped in the flag and excused because CoPz!!! Motherfuckers running around with TBL stickers and TBL catchphrases jerking each other off about brotherhood, heroism, and other stupid lies.

How much brotherhood is involved in holding an officer back while his wife is literally bleeding to death a few feet away? Zilch.

The first step to fixing the problem is acknowledging it.

Lack of training isn't the core problem.

Lack of character is.

A friend of mine has worked two active shooter calls in the last couple of weeks. In each case he was furthest away, but first on the scene. In each case he grabbed a shotgun and went in hard to find the problem. All by himself. He's the only one on his department that has sought out training outside of what his department provides.

His character drove him to be better. Not the other way around.

Preach it!  100% agree.

I know of half a dozen large departments that have sent directives everyone in the department has to read affirming that their first priority in an active shooter situation is to find and stop the threat immediately.

No waiting for backup, no calling swat....get in there and stop the killing.

The idea of "They didn't know!" is bullshit.

Me either.

Anything new that we didn’t already know?

One problem though.  This isn’t “a police department.”  It was several.  

Watched the full length video this morning. Pretty sure the LARPer cop dressed in full multicam with the suppresser on his AR and matching multicam ball cap stopped and posed for a selfie at one point as he was walking back and forth in the hallway over 30 minutes or so.

Where's our resident school resource officers/subject matter experts at? Are they reviewing the film frame by frame for a detailed AAR?

Yep!  But there are some on here that believes everything the Government tells them.

I have no doubt that some people's initial reactions was based on the idea that nobody would be this cowardly.

And given what we've seen over and over again about press reports, some skepticism was warranted.

What you look for now is people who persist in wrapping cowardice and failure in the flag and insisting you salute it. Those are the sorts of people who make these kinds of disasters possible.

So initial skepticism I can understand. Even I was surprised by the scope of failure here. I don't blame others for initially seeing this kind of inexcusable cowardice as unthinkable.

But now that we have facts, if they persist in defending this shit then they're telling you a lot about themselves.

I agree

Ulvade Police new logo

Right there!!!
How can these cowards live with themselves, in the same town, day in and day out, is beyond me!

Oh, there was a failure of leadership, alright. But it began long before that day in May.  It began the moment the Mayor and the City Council hired Arredondo and continued unbroken until that BORTAC guy walked into the classroom. It began again as soon he walked out and continues until today as those ass covering poltroons continue their utterly transparent efforts to cover their utterly worthless asses.

AS response has changed multiple times throughout the years since Columbine.  Columbine marked the change from the classic "establish a perimeter and wait for SWAT" style response to one where a group of officers were to go in and deal with the threat.  When this changed first happened, 1-2 man response was generally frowned upon with 4-5 officers being the preferred number. In the past few years you have seen most places go to the solo officer response and then teams as groups of officers arrive at the same time or the situation requires a team more than single officer.

The guy you're quoting has done nothing but defend these cowards in every thread....one can only assume that he identifies with them.

You have people in countless professions that think that learning opportunities to be better in their profession should be come with compensation by their employers and/or be provided by their employer. Most people are content to remain mediocre and not look for ways to improve themselves.....that is simply society as a whole.  To single out police as some anomaly when it comes to wanting to be paid or have the learning opportunity provided by their employer is BS.     Yes; cops should be seeking out training on their own, but that applies to literally everyone that wants to perform better at a given task.

I don't understand what their thought process was but I also can't believe they were all cowards.  That big a group?  No, something else was going on here, something that needs to be figured out so it doesn't happen again or somewheres else.

According to anti gunners / liberals / democrats, you don’t need guns, because the government/ police will protect you from danger.

This is the government that’s supposed to protect you and your family. Pretty horrifying.

Yes, Parkland was similar, but this Uvalde video has sealed the deal.

And we're living in a visual world.

Not certain exactly what's going to shift, but this event will prove to be seismic.

They're too busy in the left lane thread talking about murdering drivers at the moment.

It's really not because in any number of other professions we could sit here and list and discuss in detail with people actively in them, there is no widespread culture excusing that.

Some of the people on this site are involved in professions where large chunks of their knowledgebase is obsolete every few years and they must constantly re-learn what they do on a continual basis...and they are expected to do that on their own time and their own dime or they're looking for another job. That's the reality of their work life, and it applies to probably the overwhelming majority of people active on this forum.

If your job doesn't require asking if you want fries with that, odds are high that you're spending your own time and money learning things useful to you on the job. Simple as that.

Cops don't get a pass.

This discussion is happening in the context of an abject failure of the most basic duty police officers have.

If we were talking about any other profession that got this many people killed from sheer cowardice, the reviews wouldn't be any prettier.

There's lots of problems in society and low standards are out there aplenty...but this is a massive cultural problem in the institution of policing.

What you said is the biggest crock of shit ever posted.  If you are correct, there is zero point in having police. You serve no fucking purpose.  Defund and disband every department if what you say is true.  

This epic failure is due to the leadership and liberalism destroying American values and institutions. Shit hiring due to checking the correct boxes and nothing to do with the person's abilities.  They hired from the top down based on a person's skin color, sex, orientation, and political party. They ended up with a collective group of people that had no business being in law enforcement being led by someone with no business being in charge. Period. I don't even have kids and I know I would have stormed the fucking door.

If you truly believe what you posted, you should turn in your badge and encourage every person on your force to do the same, you are unfit for duty.

I predict this will become a case study like the FBI Florida shootout or the North Hollywood shootout.  Or Columbine.  

How did a group of trained, dedicated LEOs become immobilized for 80+ minutes while teachers and children were being slaughtered?  What happened on scene?  What was the command structure?  Was there a command structure?  What was the difference between the Uvalde cops and the BP officer who went in?

Ahh, planned events disguised as incompetence. Same playbook, different event.

I just can't believe over an hour when they even had shields around 15 minutes later... for fuck sake, 3 guys with shields is pretty fucking hard to take down


and when the first shots at the room, why not just take cover at the door, they were tripping over each other 100 ft all the way down the hallway shooter could have stepped out and killed a half dozen with their backs turned and tails tucked

Exactly why we were engaging about 'leadership' or lack of it in this case.  Didn't look like anyone there had the balls or gumption to do what they're trained for.

The hand sanitizer!

Seriously?

I can only imagine the comments those guys are getting when they talk tough on traffic stops when writing tickets to motorists for exceeding the speed limit by 6MPH.

WHO THE FUCK IS THIS MOTHER FUCKER EMT HOLDING THE COPS BACK?? HE DID THAT HOW MANY TIMES??? WHO THE FUCK IS THIS GUY???

And not one single person stepped up.  In a group of macho cops, TEXAN macho cops, not one summoned up the courage to take action.

Yes, that's what he said and that's the husband of one of the slain teachers. This is worse than thought, even he walked away. He couldn't even leeroy jenkins that shit to get to his wife. He just stepped out of the building. The cop who's daughter was in the classroom seemed to do the same, just wait it out in the hallway.

If they couldn't even go in for their loved ones, those kids were pretty much screwed.

Lack of leadership and indecision. Its all fun and games to play with their gear until it’s time to act. I am surprised they didnt ND each other.

I hope the families that lost children see this and strongly consider helping them out with that...

Absolutely disgusting.

Yep.

Fuck those pussies. What a feckless and impotent bunch of cowards.

I hope to god every officer there “just following orders” gets ass cancer. Cowards