@ 0:50

I still want them to introduce the rank of Corporal Captain to the armed services!

Only five more years to go before he gets out of prison.

Hmmm sounds like our CSM, only in Afghanistan

We had a Master Gunnery Sgt. at my last unit that was hard but fair.  He looked out for his Marines when needed, but would stomp you a new mud hole if you fucked up.  He carried a baseball that he would throw at an unsuspecting Marine that was outdoors without a cover or had a hand in a pocket.  There was a wooden mallet that he sometimes carried, but our first CO confiscated it. My sternum still creaks from when he punched me in the chest when he noticed a pen tucked into the front of my blouse.

He was also the party likely responsible for having our new CO relieved of duty. That Major was a piece of shit, that would ream someone for an unsat haircut, while having one far worse himself.  He would have us hold formation at 0700, but he wouldn't arrive until 0900. He would go home at 1600, but leave orders not to release our Marines until 1900, even when we had no work to do.  Our re-enlistment rate went to about 0%.  After 6 months, he simply wasn't CO anymore. No explanation given, and we had a new CO about a month later.

We had a Seaman Officer on my ship.

Came here to post this.

That idea died w/ the report that Sergeant Majors grew in height throughout their careers, and thus made tape.

Pretty much. The actual ratio may even be worse, when you get down to it.

I think back, and the good ones were few and far between. The majority were like the mouth-breathing moron they put over the Engineer School and who voted to eliminate the SDT when it was brought up--He'd never gotten over a 65 in his entire career, and somehow they still promoted him. Same ass stood in front of every NCO in our Engineer Group and told all of them that there was no need for any of us to know the technical part of our jobs, 'cos the School was developing some little PDA assistant thing that would tell you everything you needed to know. Said device was never actually fielded, and I am pretty sure it was never actually under development, either--Someone showed him something at a conference, and from that, he just inferred that there was no need to know your job. Biggest f**king jackass I ever met, bar none. Before they put him over at the Engineer School, he was our Group CSM, and thanks to him, I had a perfectly planned training event screwed up beyond recognition because he had a whim to demand a detail to do some BS area beautification--So, instead of being on Green cycle, the ass pulled us out of our training plan to go do landscaping. Day of the actual event, I'd been able to get none of the Skill Level One training or the Skill Level Two individual task training done because my guys were out cutting grass, and I had to turn what was slated to be a full-scale tactical training event into an on-site classroom thing in order to teach the individual skills the guys missed out on. Midway through that, the ass showed up with the G3, and has the temerity to start sharpshooting my classes as I'm teaching them, in front of the troops. Turns out, he was completely unaware that the entire manual for bridge demolition had been rewritten several years before, and because he hasn't kept up to date, he thinks I'm teaching bullsh*t I pulled out of my ass instead of current doctrine/procedure...

I'm pretty sure that the ensuing blow-up was one reason I never got past SFC; I don't suffer idiots well, at all. My LT had to basically put my ass in a time-out and get the G3 officer to get the CSM out of the area.

So, overall? Most of the ones I was around were pretty useless. Technically and tactically proficient? LOL... Lemme tell you about visiting the Sergeant Major's Academy while I was at Battle Staff Course--The level of "dumb" I overheard and witnessed there spelled out why having that collective idiocy put in charge of validating things like the course Programs of Instruction for lower-level NCO academies was a huge mistake. Most of those guys were in way, way over their heads, and needed to be put in charge of things more their speed--Like remedial reading courses, or something. There were a couple of guys who were pretty smart, but holy crap... Mimicking what they do at the Advanced Course or the CGSC/War College? For the vast majority of the students I saw there, it was like asking someone who barely graduated high school to write Ph.D dissertations, or something. I read a bunch of the papers they were supposed to produce on a historical subject, and it was just... Painful.

Whatever "right" would look like, it ain't the Sergeant Major's Academy or the entire program. They've basically academized something that's totally inappropriate, and then selected the entirely wrong set of people to go there and be promoted. Most of the problem, to my mind, is that they've tried to do to the NCO corps and academies what they did with the officer corps, and that's just totally inappropriate. It's like with the lower-level NCO academies, where you have "small group instruction", which basically means that you've got the blind leading the blind for subjects like the Army Writing Program. What they really ought to be doing is developing a professional development program where things like writing and so forth are taught as a part of a progressive scheme of things you do as NCO development, and have them taught by actual subject matter experts, not some other freakin' clown whose own literacy is highly questionable.

There are a lot of things we could be doing better, but the first thing that needs to happen is an acknowledgement that the current system is badly in need of a complete overhaul. It's insane that you have these education centers on every post, and not one of them is teaching anything of any real relevance to an NCO--Why aren't there classes on UCMJ, and all the rest of the subjects you need proficiency at, taught over at the Ed Center? Why the hell aren't they integrated into the NCO development program, instead of relying on a lick-and-a-promise bit of coverage over at the NCO Academy, which really ought to be doing a sh*t-ton more tactical training and leadership evaluation, as opposed to teaching things that really require a lot more time and attention than what the academy can spend on them?

You should definitely address them as “What’s up dude?”.

Saw this happen at the pax terminal in BIAP by a young airman working the pax front desk.  His ass likely hasn’t recovered yet.

Even SF shuffles officers faster than that, and the Infantry even worse.

Someone mentioned something about pre-2000 duty position terms being better?

We never had Lieutenants or Captains who stayed in rated command positions more than a year from what I can recall.

I think maybe Platoon Sergeants had the longest time in position, but it felt like they rotated way too frequently as well.

It takes a good year for any key leader in a unit just to get used to the OPTEMPO, training, and deployment schedule of the unit.

Makes no sense at all for them to bounce at the end of that year when the have the most opportunity to really start working well with the unit and employing it correctly.

This resonates with me. We had 4 of them on my deployment of 217 people. It was insufferable.

My first BN SGM I don't even remember.  My 1SG was very assertive and kept us squared away so that I never had to worry about that level.

My 2nd BN SGM was just marking time until retirement.  Seemed like a good guy, big, tall Pacific Islander-type with wise eyes, calm demeanor, English as 2nd Language.

My next one was one of the best SGMs the Army ever had, as I mentioned before, spent all his time in Ranger Regiment and The Unit, then 1-506th Infantry on the DMZ in Korea.  Absolute stud, little Guamanian guy that would ruck as if it wasn't on his back, could shoot CQM drills with an M16A2 holding it like a 1911 just for fun with no muzzle climb, and he was barely over 5ft tall.  Super positive, always had something great to say to us when he encountered us, really helped train, coach, and mentor every NCO in the Battalion on-the-spot.  Love that guy.

My next one was 14th MI when I was in LRS, don't ever recall even meeting him as we only really saw our 1SG, who was cool.  Former 2/75, 9th ID LRS IIRC.

My next one was a spineless weasel who just caved to whatever the BC wanted (an MP who somehow branch-transferred into Infantry and should have been shown the door), soldier welfare and training be-damned.

Next was an SF Company SGM in 1st Group, old crusty guy with a gut who sat with his feet up on the desk while wearing his brown T-shirt and BDU bottoms, didn't appear to give a rip about much in life.  I'm sure his body was broken multiple times over.

Next was a Texan who liked to drink beer, very relaxed, didn't get involved in out business at all that I recall.

Next was a criminal who bragged to problem soldiers in the barracks about how he used to smoke dope and hide out from NCOs back in the late 1970s when he was a dirtbag private.  He still treated NCOs like they were the enemy (if you were white), while protecting others if they matched his skin color.  Never offered a single helpful input into mentoring because he didn't know the meaning of the word.

Next was a super tall southern guy who always bashed on Baptists as a joke in BN get togethers/pay day activities.  He failed Ranger School 3 times for pull-ups and didn't hold our POS BC acceptable for committing fraud/falsifying training documents during a surprise CIP.

If the Army could model the little Guamanian guy from Delta and clone him throughout the NCOPD career path, it would be glorious.

Which begs the question "why isn't Bn 6 telling CSM types to stop with the ticky-tacky shit?"

That CO would fit in well in the 82nd Airborne, circa 2000-2003.

The key thing an NCO has to offer up amounts to "corporate memory"--The organization's distilled experience. You don't get that with six month tours and the constant turbulence we demand for "progression" and "development".

Out of 25 years, I probably spent only ten years in rated leadership positions. The rest? Admin and staff time, none of which really helped me be a better leader. Some of that time was valuable to the Army, I have to admit, but the problem is that I wasn't being paid to do those things. You want a professional recruiter? Hire one, or train one; detailing someone to do that, whose primary training and experience is as a combat arms NCO is a complete and utter waste of their time. Likewise with a bunch of other jobs I found myself in--I still don't know why the hell the MTOE Gods thought it was a brilliant use of a Combat Engineer NCO to work a staff job at a Corps headquarters. Not one damn thing I did there for the three years I was in that job had anything at all to do with my job on the line, and about the only real input I provided was a bit of validation that "Hey, you can't really clear roads that fast doing route clearance...". Past that, it was a waste of my time and the Army's money/effort training me to be an Engineer NCO.

So much of the stuff the Army does is senseless, and so little actually aligns with necessity or rational purpose. You want to create truly excellent leaders who know their damn jobs, quit pulling them out of those jobs in order to "broaden their horizons" or fill some idiotic tasking which has little or nothing to do with their actual jobs. The Army pulled me out of key learning positions on multiple occasions, simply "because". If they'd let me the hell alone as a junior platoon sergeant, instead of pushing me over into an area I knew nothing about, and wasn't ready for, I'd have been a much better and far more effective platoon sergeant who could have done far better at that job somewhat later in my career.

A lot of our problems stem from the fact that nobody really pays attention to actual issues of career development and progression; it's all grab-ass and entirely random. You piss the wrong guy off, you're screwed. Likewise, if someone really likes you, they'll do things that really aren't in your best interests or the Army's, over the long haul--Putting a guy into a senior position just because he's doing a really good job in a more junior one is just stupid, especially if he lacks the seasoning and experience he's going to need in order to succeed or even be credible in that senior position.

Actually, it makes perfect sense when you consider warfighting is no longer the purpose of Big Army. Bureaucratic inertia has given corporate Army control and turned the Army into just another place where punching the ticket,kissing the right behinds, knowing where the bodies are buried,  being Six Sigma certified matters, and all the rest trump the Army's state mission.

A good CSM can be spectacular. A really bad CSM can make an AAR where the words "white phosphorous" and "friendly fire" are used in close proximity seem fun.

I once spent 45 minutes in a CSMs office explaining why he wasn't informed of a relatively minor problem that had been fixed a week before. His idea of the right way to fix the problem was to write a 5 paragraph OPORD, staff it through the 3 shop, the XO, him, and to the Bn Cdr. The plan we executed was a one minute phone call to that unit's First Sergeant who fixed it in a matter of hours.

The last five minutes of the convo with him was spelling words out to him as he two finger pecked out an email to the Bde CSM about how he somehow averted certain disaster. Bde CSM knew all of us by name, and probably didn't even read the email. That Bn CSM was completely useless, and I'm really dismayed that USASMA gave him a diploma and Master's degree knowing he can't write.

I've come to the realization long ago that most of these problems are a result of the type of person society produced, mainly from public schooling.

They often can't read, can't write, have no initiative to actually learn what is in the military publications and relevant information related to critical aspects of weapons systems, vehicles, comms gear, or lessons-learned by other soldiers throughout time the hard way.

Many have postured themselves using the social dynamics of modified bullying to assert their power in the vacuum of character or personal accomplishment, while playing the part of a hard-charger, in order to deceive their superiors and peers into thinking they know what they are doing.

When you go through a lot of the military publications, you see that throughout time, at least someone has actually tried to set up their replacements for success.  You have to be able to sift through a lot of material to find the gems, but they are there.  The incompetent power-trippers stopped trying to read long ago, and the system has rewarded them.

Nowadays, they somehow get college degrees (not that there are difficult standards there), in order to meet the new corporate ideals of what a senior NCO should be, with none of it relevant to their career management field in most cases.  These types will get fast-tracked for 1SG and later SGM, while their more competent peers are actually leading soldiers and trying to do the right thing (at least some of them).

He has to get that purple heart somehow.

Wow, no one mentioned butthole pleasures?

1stSgt and SgtMaj ranks/billets were invented by POGs so after a couple decades of service they might have a chance to join an infantry unit.   And then be complete cunts to them and make every attempt to lower morale with their bullshit.

On ocassion you do run across some really awesome ones, but not very often.

Nothing, basically.

Those MOTHERFUCKERS.

Out of my 25yrs that was my experience except for two to three of them.

The key thing about all three they were just hanging on to get their high three before they retired.

I had one CSM in the early 90s that was pretty much a legend(Vietnam veteran etc). He was told to retire after he was caught banging some E6 female.

Dat white privilege doe.

I did 8 and only had one that was worth a fuck. "LG." I think that's who you're talking about. He's still pretty much a legend in The Regiment.

When I was a cadet, lo these many moons ago, I read a book called "The Three Meter Zone." Basically it was about how to be an effective leader at the squad level.

I always wondered what happened to NCOs and officers that as they advanced up the ranks so many of them forget about the fundamentals of leadership and they just because useless assholes or tyrants.

Again, it falls back to our schooling system.

I was in a position where I had to proof-read NCOERs for senior SF Instructors in SWC when I was waiting to recycle after being poisoned/stayed in the ICU, etc.

I should have been surprised that almost none of them could correctly use basic words in English at what was a 3rd grade level when I was a kid, and these guys were all 10 years my senior or more.  Even worse, they were all 18Ds and not dummies in the slightest, but school had failed them and by extension, they continued to fail at basic written English.

Even at that time, it didn't surprise me based on what I had seen in society and the Army up to that point.

Same thing in every Infantry unit I was in, with maybe LRS as an exception.  We had to do a lot of writing and presentations up to Corps Commander level, so we had multiple layers of scrutiny on us from our Platoon Leaders on up through the CO, MI BN CDR, and Corps Intel Staff.

I also recall vividly certain guys in SF who could not brief for the life of them, sweating profusely and shivering from fear like a person with a phobia of public speaking, one particular E-7 18D I'm thinking of.  Outside of that one setting, he was a great guy, super nice, motivated, better than average physical shape, smart, competent in his medical skills, but giving his portion of the brief in isolation looked like he was going to die.  He even broke out starched BDUs for it so he would look really nice for the Os, but it was soaked through after his presentation of the brief.

I was thinking the whole time, "We did this crap practically in our sleep even as E-4s in LRSC (to higher ranks) with a high degree of confidence and no stumbling.  What's going on here?"

Class 42 checking in.

The fucking Mullet Mafia strikes again.

I used to hate those REMF lesbos and their mullet head cut.

If you read my above comments, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same LG brothers.

If I could have had that leadership around me the whole time, I would have been in warrior heaven.

To tell you to get a haircut and take your hands out of your pockets.

Awesome photo!!

Bravo, sir

I find that usually happens when you get neutered.

my grandfather was a CSM, he told me once that his sole job was to protect the enlisted from the officers with bad judgement and lack of experience.

he also said, some days were better than others.

LG had the RGT for most of the time I was in 1/75. Mock had it before him. He gave my pre-Ranger class our final brief before heading to Camp Darby. He wouldn't stand up to toxic 1SG's, of which we had an extreme case who couldn't make a lot of PT standards and that was pretty disappointing because this guy took great pride in kicking as many people out of The Regiment as possible. We lost some good guys because of his sorry ass. He was eventually relieved for cause. Other than that LG was a SGM that you wanted to follow. He had the men's confidence 100%.

When we were in Rota washing vehicles to come back to conus, I was in the rash rack with some Army dude scrubbing vehicles and just bullshitin about daily stuff. He was older and didn't have his blouse on. When he  finished with his vehicle, he walked over to where his blouse was and put it on. When he turned around he had a gob of black on his collar, and to my surprise he was a SGM. Just kept talking about good beer spots out in town and wished me well and left.

Had one Marine SgtMaj that loved to party, and tried to talk all of us junior enlisted into buying jetskies, another probably never made it past the 5 grade

There is an unfortunate streak of what might be best described as "anti-education" in the US military, primarily for the NCO corps. Most of what you're talking about does start with the civilian education system, but there's no damn reason at all why the Army couldn't be fixing that crap in the enlisted ranks with remedial education efforts.

We just don't bother, is the problem.

What I think we should be doing is setting realistic educational goals for each grade; you want to be a Sergeant, then you need to be able to read and write at a high-school level (a real one, not the dumbed-down ones in the inner cities...), and you've got from recruit to Specialist to make that happen. Don't want to take the time to go to school, or work at it...? Too bad; so sad--You won't be making Sergeant.

To me, it is freaking ridiculous that the Education Centers are optional, and that they don't teach military subjects. Why the hell can't you go over there and get a college-level course on the UCMJ? Why aren't there classes and seminars on military leadership and military history on offer? MOS technical courses, taught by actual subject-matter experts?

If you're an Infantry NCO, you ought to be able to go over to the Ed Center and find courses on leadership psychology, counseling, field first aid, how to conduct training, and all the rest of those things you ought to know. As well, the Army ought to establish professional standards such that if you get out and go to apply somewhere for a job, and say you attained the rank of Sergeant, then the civilian employer would know that you met the minimum standards for an associate's degree in terms of literacy and general knowledge.

So much is wasted... The Army has all these resources, and only a small fraction of the force bothers to use them. The rest ought to be encouraged to do so, and the whole thing recast to actually reflect the needs of the Army, not somebody's desire to enhance their employability after leaving the Army.

Once upon a time my battalion CSM made a no boonie hat rule.

There was a small collection taken up.  He was given a really big ACU pattern sombrero on his birthday a few weeks later.

In 20 years I've had ONE good SgtMaj.

I've seen SgtsMaj kick Marines out of a chowhall aboard Camp Fallujah because they were still in frog gear. They had JUST returned from a convoy and barely made it before closing time.
I've had my ass reamed as a 1stLt for having my hands in my pockets while fucking forward in AFG while it was 15 degrees out. They didn't like it when my answer to "are you okay with bringing up your young Marines this way sir" was "yup, I'm good with it SgtMaj"
I've also had to correct at least 2 about about FITREPS after they tried to get me to change something on a Marine's FITREP and they were 100% wrong. After showing him the pertinent paragraph in the PES he finally dropped it. Shockingly, a Capt that has written almost 100 FITREPS actually knows more about writing them than a SgtMaj who has written only 50. Err...0 actually I mean.

Then, FINALLY, my last one was fucking stellar. Always has great, relevant advice. Didn't interrupt training to fuck with area beautification. It helps that he was an 0321 I'm sure, but still it shouldn't have taken 18 years for me to finally serve with a SgtMaj that knew his role and did it well.

A great example of a SgtMaj who thinks he has more sway than the uniform regs.

His brother was in The Unit and was our CSM at 1-506th in late 1996-1997.

When all the Batt guys in my Recon Platoon heard LG was going to be our CSM, the motivation levels on their faces went from about 5 or 6 to 11.

Even the young junior EMs who had come from 3/75 knew of the LG brothers.

I wanted to stay in the Battalion actually, he was so squared away, but I had a family back home.



Oh, our BC was LTC Milley at the time, the current Chairman of the JCS.  The BC we had before him was better, but Milley wasn't bad.  He agreed to implement a Battalion DM Program we had cooked up in the Scout Platoon on advice from our PL, who was a prior service E-6 11VB4/SOTIC qualified NCO with time in 18th Airborne Corps LRS and 82nd in Panama for Just Because.

A Co CDR was a guy by the name of Thomas Greer, who went to the Unit after that.  Most of the forum knew him as Dalton Fury (RIP).

My dad knew a guy in Vietnam with the last name Major. He was a sergeant. He loved answering the phone. “ Sergeant major“

Sounds like XVIII Abn Corps Arty CSM Hundley back in 87-88. Running PT going up Ardennes toward Butner, CSM is calling cadence and running right on the double yellow. Coming toward us is an 82d unit, their cadence caller is also running on the yellow. He starts yelling “get out the way, leg! Get out the way!” CSM Hundley ran right into him without even slowing down, knocked him on his ASS, and kept going. I’m sure he wanted to say something but the “CSM HUNDLEY” silkscreened on the back of his shirt changed his mind. I never met a harder but more fair CSM.

I’ll be damned if I can remember his name, but the battalion CSM for 6/37 FA at Camp Essayons, Korea, when I was there in 89-90 was one of the worthless ones. Wore a brown leather belt with his BDUs, just a little insect of a person.

At the time he was a 1SG, but Ezell Robinson from A btry 13th FA (MLRS), 24th Inf Div (M) in 91-92 almost certainly made CSM and definitely would have been an outstanding one. He and CPT Cardon B. Crawford (probably the commander I respected most of all of them) turned around a unit that failed 2 ARTEPs in 89 & 90. He’d spent his entire career in tube artillery and couldn’t stand what he called the “Mike attitude” (13M, MLRS crewmember) of “it’s broken. Oh well, let’s wait for maintenance.” Once he got to know the system he understood that when a computer or some other electronics module is broken you can’t just do it manually like in a 109, that the manual traverse & elevate controls are for maintenance purposes.

I’d have to say most of the CSMs I served with were good soldiers.

What kind of fuckary is that..... picking up some officers dogs shit?

I would have had to laugh and walk away. I aint't picking up after no one, let alone their fucking dog.

And that's what I don't get. As leadership, his first role is to be an advocate for the troops. Either look the other way for the guys who didn't have time to get squared away or tell the mess hall to stay open until the troops can get cleaned up.

But even beyond that, anyone who has been in long enough to be E-8 or E-9, even someone who has never deployed or who only has the job because she is a minority female, knows shit happens and you got to adapt on the spot to unplanned for events.

I just don't get the "I'm going to bust your balls just because I can" mentality.

I used to work for a guy who would have booted people out of a DFAC just like that, without a single qualm. Only thing is, he'd have had a clearly articulated reason for doing it, like "You guys have to be clean to come into the DFAC because of field sanitation rules (of which there are some that actually address just this issue...), and I'm not going to let you into the DFAC while you're still dirty from the field...".

And, then, he would have told you to stand fast, gone in and gotten the DFAC manager up off his ass, and then fed you himself outside the DFAC. And, he would have raised holy hell with anyone in the DFAC staff trying to tell him you couldn't get a couple dozen to-go meals at such short notice...

In other words, he'd have followed the rules, and then still taken care of the troops at the same time. He was not really into the "stupid just-because" sort of rules, and God help you if you didn't take care of the troops.

Same guy would be in the car with me, going somewhere, have me stop, and then get out and chew ass on someone walking across the parade ground grass. But, again... He'd have a reason for it, would articulate it, and while he was chewing your ass, he'd have you nodding along and agreeing with him that the rule against walking on the grass was a reasonable one, and that you felt like you'd personally failed yourself, the Army, Jesus, and the Sergeant Major by walking across that grass. He'd do that sh*t regardless of rank, too--E-1 got the same ass-chewing that an O-5 would get, with the same sort of polite assurance and vicious sarcasm.

Taking that guy anywhere was like having a rabid Rottweiler in the vehicle with you, and you never knew when or where he was going to bite someone. But, you did know that the biting always had a reason, always had a purpose, and was entirely deserved.

Had another CSM who was, frankly, nuts. In a good way, sorta-kinda--High standards, professional, but just... Difficult. Working with other agencies on post was interesting, when I was on staff, because all I'd have to do in order to get them to do whatever it was they didn't want to do for us was to remind them of a couple of salient facts. First, I'd ask them if they knew who I worked for, and what he was like. If yes, I'd gently point out that an inevitable outcome for them not complying with my entirely reasonable request was that the raving maniac I worked for would be over at their office in my stead, and that he'd likely have started his rampage at least two levels above theirs before the backblast from their refusal came back on them, which would tend to make life even harder for them. Usually, all it took was the mere mention of his name, and I'd get whatever I wanted, rather than have him come over to get it done. What was funny was that other Sergeant Majors around post would reinforce the desirability to keep him out of their areas, especially the staff Sergeant Majors. He apparently had a reputation from the post-wide Sergeant Major meetings, and none of the other Sergeant Majors on post wanted to cross him. It was kind of humorous, sometimes--I'd walk in, a lowly SFC come to some post agency trying to get something done, and as soon as they recognized me for who I worked for, bang, instant compliance and outright fear.

Also, pity: "You work for him? Every day? You have to see him all the time...? You poor bastard... Here, let me get you a cup of coffee while we type up your requisition...".