What's a Sergeant Major for?

Honestly, after the last half of my career spent working in close proximity to multiple examples, I'm hard-pressed to find a justification for the rank or the position. None of them added any particular value, in terms of alignment with the commander's intent. What they mostly represented was an alternate center of gravity for leadership in the unit, basically a built-in disruptive influence. While several worked well with the commanders the way they were supposed to, the net overall was that they were simply detractors from the commander's directives and goals, usually serving to disrupt and screw up way more than they "helped".

The program, to my mind, is completely out of control. If you put me in charge of the Army, one of the first things I'd do would be to end it, and terminate the whole thing with extreme prejudice. Especially at any level past battalion.

What they need to do is turn the senior NCO ranks into a two-track affair, in my opinion. Want to be a "senior enlisted adviser"? Fine; you top out at E-8, and your only possible positions are at company level. Want to do more? Fine; most Sergeant Majors are frustrated wanna-be officers, anyway, without the professional skills to fill those roles above company-grade positions. What they should do is leverage that crap, and create a warrant-officer track for the senior enlisted guys to follow, one where they get actual rank to match their ambitions and keep their expertise where it belongs--At company-grade levels. Every line company ought to have one or two Warrant Officer PL positions, where a new officer and a new platoon sergeant can learn their trade under them, which would allow for actual mentoring of a company-level officer by someone who can actually rate his ass. Right now, it's a serious joke--You're an E7, held responsible for the shenanigans of an O-1, but he's the one rating you, not the other way around. Your ability to influence his ass is about zero--Make that young man work for a former senior-enlisted Warrant Officer for his first tour as a junior officer, and then you'll see some actual real-world and effective mentoring going on.

I'd sh*tcan the entire CSM program, and replace it with a system like I describe; you wanna be an officer? Fine; go prove you can do it at WOC, and then come back to your company-level position as a senior Platoon Leader, where all your experience and years of hard work can be put to positive use. The usual BS that our Sergeant Majors get up to could just as well be abandoned as useless make-work, and should be.

Of course, I'd also replace company command positions as captains with majors, the way the Brits do it, and leave those guys in command for four-five years, not the half-ass short times we give them. We could drastically cut out a lot of officer and senior enlisted positions, and never notice the loss. Honestly, I think a Major in company command, a captain as XO, couple of LTs that are actually learning their trade, and several warrant officers would do better running the average combat-arms company than the short-term cluster-f**k we have going now.

The whole CSM thing has always struck me as fundamentally insane, anyway: What the f**k do these guys have to offer above company-level leadership? Do they know Brigade operations at all? Do they even know what the hell Battalion does? Let alone Division and Corps, where they mostly just embarrass themselves and the rest of the NCO leadership by focusing on trivia and confusing the Commander's Intent.

I've been on way too many training events where I'd host the commander and be told "You're doing exactly what I want done, good job!!", and then a few hours later, that same commander's CSM would show up to tell me how I was f**ked up, and how he wanted me to change everything 270 degrees to match his twisted interpretation of the OPORD he only vaguely understood because he was virtually illiterate and completely unfamiliar with the new manuals.

"Do you want to run this ship?"
"Yeah..."
"Well, you can't!"

Sergeant Majors are about as worthless as Army Lieutenant Colonels talking shit about close air support

The last time I interacted with a Sgt Maj was at NTC.

We (Tankers) were attached to an Infantry battalion.

We were in our fighting position and cleaning up for the night, I was gunner, TC was off at a meeting.

Humvee pulls up behind the tank and the CSM gets out and starts checking things out.  He looks up at the tank and asked where our individual fighting positions were.  

I looked back, being the salty short timer that I was and said, "Why would we need those Sgt Major?"

"Indirect fire"! was his response.

I said, "Sgt Maj, this tank is our fighting position.  If we were to take indirect fire, we would get in our tank and go about 5 miles toward Tiefort Mt. until it lets up.  Then we will come back and kill everyone who isn't on our side.  We are NOT staying here in a foxhole to watch our tank get hit by an 81mm mortar."

I didn't get into trouble for it, so I figured I did ok.

For my last few months with the squadron, we had an infantry Smadge. Dude obviously did not understand the intricacies of being in support.

Random-ass all SNCO PT, meetings, and PMEs that happened inside of working hours, thus delaying the actual securing of the day for entire departments because there was no way to complete work without those key personnel.

You win internetz for the day.

Senior Chief / E8s were the most miserable SOBs I had to serve with. I'd take 90% of the Master Chiefs (excluding CMCs) over all but one Senior Chief I knew. CMCs were slimier than Saul Goodman.

Your dad is gonna kick you in the nuts

Oh yeah, and former USAREUR CSM Horvath is a god and I would follow him to hell if he asked me to.

So there's a positive CSM story.

A senior enlisted NCO I raised who's now in SF shares the same view as we do.

The Infantry needs Warrant Officers who are technically and tactically competent to a degree where they can pass down those habits and skills within the Battalion without being subject to the normal rating and rank/duty position fluctuations of the Battalion.

We also agree on having key leaders with more time in leadership positions.

We shuffle people around so quickly, that it's amazing to me we get things done.

Why have a Infantry guy in a Aviation squadron? Are pickings that slim these days?

I'll just poke my finger into his shoulder and make his arm pop off

I agree, but he was old school.

SGMs have a role and a lot of influence as the senior enlisted advisor. The biggest variable between them is what they view as important and how they spend their time.  A smart SGM with real world experience coupled with a real mission is a huge asset to the force.

One has to also remember, outside of a few jobs in the  military the path to promotion is only met by checking a number of boxes, a lot of which take the soldier away from their job or the operational force in general. Essentially in order to move up you have to detach yourself more and more from the ground level, inherently causing more problems.

Only really noticed one once.

Flight line DFAC on Leatherneck being a Dick to some Marine Corpral.

Based on our CSM in Iraq, to literally fuck every female Soldier in his command an sexually harass the rest in CENTCOM.

Australia and New Zealand do something similar to this with their rank structure.

A friend of mine was a major in the air force during Vietnam. He was issued some sort of 38 snubbie to carry on his survival vest when he flew.

He said one day he was back at base, just back from a mission and the Sergeant Major was chewing the ass of a bunch of troops over the condition of their weapons. He said just then, the SGM sees him and calls him over.

He said he was thinking "oh shit, now what?" and he really didn't want to get involved in whatever was going on, but he couldn't just blow him off in front of the enlisted, so he goes over.

The SGM asks to see his sidearm so he can show his men how a weapon is supposed to look for inspection. My friend the major, hesitated, then realized he didn't have any choice. He handed his 38 to the SGM.

He said it was so caked up with green corrosion from the brass, the SGM had a hard time releasing the cylinder.

The SGM, looked at the gun, then looked at him and said, "uh,... don't worry about this major, we'll get this cleaned up and get it back to you." At which point my friend hauled ass.

He said his revolver was returned to him completely cleaned. A few weeks later he was shot down flying FAC in one of those little observation planes, and threw everything out the door of his plane, including his freshly cleaned 38, before he ditched in the river and was picked up by the Navy.

Funny story to listen to him tell it.

at a minimum, go back to pre-2000 officer management:
--2 years 2LT, 2 years 1LT
--at least 2 years as Plt Ldr between OBC completion and picking up CPT.
--Co XO time between Plt Ldr and promotion to CPT instead of battalion staff
--Promoted to CPT at 4 years, THEN off to Officer Advanced Course or Captains Career Course or whatever they call it now
--after that, go to a staff position at Bn level for 1-2 years
--then, take company command after 6-7 years AFCS, after having been in the battalion for a while and knowing how it operates, and after having spent 3+ years at platoon/company level as a lieutenant.

Haha. True

They just have 'to do' something.

Folks in this thread look like a bunch of Elvises.

Someone has to screw E-4 and below and lose their career.  An SGM is top man for the job

PT Belt policeman

You answered your own question.

CSM's come in 2 types- 1) Rock Star, and 2)Mouth-Breathing Fucktard.

There is no in between and for every Rockstar there's no less than 10 Fucktards.

The 77th SB CSM in Iraq and Kuwait in 2011/12 was a cunt. Did nothing but take away vehicles from units with an actual mission so she and her girlfriend could smoke in air conditioned comfort.

The rest of the ones I have experience with most were empty suits. 1 liked to be out training with soldiers so much he let his paperwork slide to the point he was told to get back in the office or bring his laptop with him. My newest is still unknown, but we did like it when he called out officers for them having junior enlisted pick up the officers dog shit when they brought dogs to the unit one day for vet assistant training.

In the reserves I have yet to hear a SGM or CSM to tell anyone to stay off the grass.

He has to do with something related to coffee sampling.  Its kind of hush-hush and not well understood.

I'd imagine he has a lifted F350 4x4 too

All the ones I served with, except for one, were good people. The same goes for the Master Chiefs. The one bad apple got a time out.

I had a Master Chief like me so much he got me into the Army!  

My NCOIC (E-8, overqualified) & Top right now are excellent; the CSM, who've I've known since he was an E-6, is in charge of the parking lot, and fucking that up.

To walk in on me touching myself in my hooch in Iraq

I've known/served with many and the ratio of assholes and/or worthless ones is about the same ratio as any other rank, they're just more noticeable.

I see many here complain/talk shit about CSM/SGMs and it sounds like a bunch of snivelers.

I retired 11 years ago as an SGM, does "No one is more professional than I" mean anything in today's Army?

Flame away

My old man is a Rembrandt when it comes to creative punishments, for his kids and whoever was under him. He handled almost everything in house and he told me he only ever put three people on report.

One of my favorites was he had some E nothing underhim that kept doing karate when the Karate Kid movie came out. Anyways, this kid did something and punishment was coming his way.

So the station had a couple whaleboats that needed sanded and repainted. My old man gave the kid a sanding block, pointed him at the whaleboats and told him to start "wax on, wax off" -ing.

I must have been lucky.  All the CSM's I had were pretty good dudes.  The one I had in 1st Cav lost one of his nuts in 'Nam.  He was cool as shit.

What is the point?

No idea.

Someone has to get paid to sit around all day drinking coffee and talk about the good old days.

Wait, what about LTC Kilgore and his talking shit for close air support?

Depends. If its a unit that kills humans a regular basis then there's a vital role for the E-9 billet.

An SGM or a CSM? SGM is a staff rank. Same thing as MSG/1SG.

You can't trust an even numbered Chief.  

My first thought.
You gNailed it!

ADM Yost, Commandant of the Coast Guard, personally told my dad he set the service back 20 years.

It was the highest complement my old man ever got.

The most important message LTC Kilgore had was not about air support or surfing or even Napalm.

It was "Someday, this war's going to end"