WV Shooting Range has nuisance complaint filed against it - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WV Shooting Range has nuisance complaint filed against it (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 3/17/2017 1:54:02 PM EDT

From the announcement from PNTC:

We would like to thank each of you for being members and customers of PNTC and we look forward to your continued support and use of the complex. We cannot stress enough how much we appreciate and need your continued support.

We feel compelled inform our members and customers regarding a recent court ruling related to PNTC's private customer information. Specifically, a resident of Virginia has filed a nuisance complaint against PNTC alleging that noise from operation of the shooting range is a nuisance, and therefore interferes with his property rights. This complaint was filed in Berkeley County Circuit Court and is before Circuit Court Judge Grey Silver, styled Ben and Diane Goldstein v. Peacemaker Properties, LLC and Peacemaker National Training Center, LLC, Civil Action No. 15-C-520. Court documents filed in the case are public record and may be reviewed through the Circuit Clerk's office.

Although our legal team pointed out that Berkeley County, WV specifically exempts shooting ranges from their noise ordinance and prevents nuisance claims against shooting ranges, the complaint was filed and not dismissed by the court. You may also access the Berkeley County Noise Ordinance at this link:
http://www.berkeleycountycomm.org/docs/ordinances/amendnoiseord0409.pdf

Despite numerous motions and requests to reconsider, and numerous mediation efforts with the plaintiff, the court has ordered PNTC to produce the below documents and other private records under a "Protective Order." Under this order, the plaintiffs and their counsel are legally permitted to access the following information:

- All member files
- All waivers from any person who has accessed PNTC, to include all law enforcement, federal agency personnel, military personnel and foreign military personnel names
- All shooting competition files and lists
- All training information and lists
- All customer waivers
- Identities of all persons who have used PNTC ranges
- All ATF & NFA records (to include Forms 4473 and ATF bound book information)

Unfortunately, PNTC is unable to answer additional questions or comment on this matter at this time. Please know that we have done everything in our power to protect your private information, but we must comply with the court order.

Again, we look forward to seeing you soon and thank you for your support and understanding.

Thank You,
Cole McCulloch - President
Peacemaker National Training Center

I can only see devious intent in requiring all membership information be provided over a noise complaint.

Posted: 3/17/2017 1:58:14 PM EDT

[#1]

What in the actual fuck?

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:00:48 PM EDT

[#2]

The whole state is a shooting range

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:01:17 PM EDT

[#3]

I have a lot of friends that shoot there. Not good.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:02:58 PM EDT

[#4]

You all should go to the individuals home filing suit and offer your info to them in person. They are getting it anyway and it is the neighborly thing to do.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:04:03 PM EDT

[#5]

WTF? I don't see how any of that information is their business. Especially the 4473/ATF/NFA information.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:06:00 PM EDT

[#6]

Dear complainant: You're retarded. You moved next to a shooting range, what did you expect?

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:06:12 PM EDT

[#7]

Fuck you court follow the fucking law...

you want that listed stuff??

FUCK YOU... Molon Labe..

I don't have to comply if you aren't following the fucking law you fucking fucks..

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:07:19 PM EDT

[#8]

HAHA ..... Goldstein

ETA: the panhandle has been taken over by a bunch of former and current VA/MD/DC liberal asshats .....

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:08:27 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
You all should go to the individuals home filing suit and offer your info to them in person. They are getting it anyway and it is the neighborly thing to do.

View Quote

This and their place of employment.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:08:55 PM EDT

[#10]

Does that court even have jurisdiction to release 4473s?

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:10:17 PM EDT

[#11]

If the range was smart they would contact every LE agency that ever trained there and make them aware that their officers information was about to be shared with a private party or made public. That might get something moving.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:11:01 PM EDT

[#12]

Fuck the Goldsteins.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:11:13 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Does that court even have jurisdiction to release 4473s?

View Quote

Who cares..the court is violating the law...fuck them.. time to stand up and tell them FOAD.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:13:02 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a lot of friends that shoot there. Not good.

View Quote

Probably Liberal out of Stater moved in.
From NJ, NY, MD

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:15:00 PM EDT

[#15]

These people are on a jihad. Lefties moved close to a range in southern Oregon, and, as memory serves, couldn't shut it down on noise or safety grounds, so they filed suit saying that the lead from the range was seeping into the water and threatening wildlife.

I really do believe that all this shit from the left is fucking going to come to a head soon. It can't keep going at the rate it's going.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:15:09 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Dear complainant: You're retarded. You moved next to a shooting range, what did you expect?

View Quote

They expect to shove their lifestyle down everyone else's throats like every other fascist liberal SJW.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:16:52 PM EDT

[#17]

What does any of that information have to do with a noise complaint?

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:17:07 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Who cares..the court is violating the law...fuck them.. time to stand up and tell them FOAD.

View Quote

Are you sure? That seems to be the ordinance regarding whether or not fines can be assessed, not civil damages.

Meaning, the range is not in violation of any ordinance, but that is different than a tort.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:17:31 PM EDT

[#19]

Trying to bully them out of existence.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:18:10 PM EDT

[#20]

pffft, why even acknowledge the court?

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:20:18 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
pffft, why even acknowledge the court?

View Quote

Usually because of subpoenas and all that kind of stuff.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:20:46 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

Are you sure? That seems to be the ordinance regarding whether or not fines can be assessed, not civil damages.

Meaning, the range is not in violation of any ordinance, but that is different than a tort.

View Quote

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/ChapterEntire.cfm?chap=61&art=6§ion=23

b) Except as provided in this section, a person may not maintain a nuisance action for noise against a shooting range located in the
vicinity of that person's property if the range was established as of
the date of the person acquiring the property. If there is a
substantial change in use of the range or there is a period of shooting
inactivity at a range exceeding one year after the person acquires the
property, the person may maintain a nuisance action if the action is
brought within two years from the beginning of the substantial change
in use of the range, or the resumption of shooting activity.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:21:58 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
Trying to bully them out of existence.

View Quote

Yes and I'll bet I know Mr. Goldstein's occupation.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:22:37 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

Are you sure? That seems to be the ordinance regarding whether or not fines can be assessed, not civil damages.

Meaning, the range is not in violation of any ordinance, but that is different than a tort.

View Quote

If there is a state law saying you can't sue a range due to noise...and they sue because of noise...isn't that against the law?

Why a court even allows this to proceed is beyond me...

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:23:43 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

These people are on a jihad. Lefties moved close to a range in southern Oregon, and, as memory serves, couldn't shut it down on noise or safety grounds, so they filed suit saying that the lead from the range was seeping into the water and threatening wildlife.

I really do believe that all this shit from the left is fucking going to come to a head soon. It can't keep going at the rate it's going.

View Quote

This.

After the noise complaint goes nowhere they will try and get the EPA involved. They tried to pull the same shit at a DNR operated range here.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:28:18 PM EDT

[#26]

As a board of director at our I would be willing to tell the Court of 'pound sand'! The information that is requested is way beyond the scope of a noise complaint!

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:28:50 PM EDT

[#27]

The "public range" part of Peacemaker is actually in Virginia. I think that's why a Virginia resident is making the complaint.
I can't understand why the fuck they would need all the customer info.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:35:10 PM EDT

[#28]

sounds like the goldstein's could use a visit from

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:35:53 PM EDT

[#29]

Goldstein??

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:36:51 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Goldstein??

http://i.imgur.com/aiEJH.gif

View Quote

perfect :)

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:40:56 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
pffft, why even acknowledge the court?

View Quote

They are the defendant. If they fail to comply, judgment can be entered against them, in which case, the plaintiffs will get everything they are asking for put into an enforceable court order.

They should be seeking a "writ of prohibition" from the WV Supreme Court before complying.

Likewise, the affected customers should be hiring lawyers to send the plaintiffs, and their lawyers, letters that they are about to get sued.

<----licensed WV lawyer

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:40:57 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
If there is a state law saying you can't sue a range due to noise...and they sue because of noise...isn't that against the law?

Why a court even allows this to proceed is beyond me...

View Quote

Makes you wonder if there isn't more to it than a noise complaint, doesn't it?

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:42:55 PM EDT

[#33]

This sounds like a job for Nolo.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:46:25 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
If the range was smart they would contact every LE agency that ever trained there and make them aware that their officers information was about to be shared with a private party or made public. That might get something moving.

View Quote

Why are they special?

The entire fiasco is an outrageous overreach by the "judicial" system.
I'd look at extreme measures if they released my information.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:49:10 PM EDT

[#35]

The moral of the story is this: never keep any records you are not legally obliged to keep.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:52:52 PM EDT

[#36]

Hopefully the range wins the suit and then turns around and has a free machinegun shoot day with free ammo for all those that attend. Then I hope they set up a few General Electric M134 Miniguns and the event goes into the wee hours of the night/early morning culminating in an GE M134 tracer and explosion show.

You know..kind of like the machinegun shoot in what is it...Tennessee? Or is it Kentucky?

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:53:31 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Fuck you court follow the fucking law...

you want that listed stuff??

FUCK YOU... Molon Labe..

I don't have to comply if you aren't following the fucking law you fucking fucks..

View Quote

The "court" (ASSHOLE god-complex judge) IS THE LAW... for all practical purposes. Look at our president, who"s trying to be presidential... these leftist, anti-American judges and the groups who support them and file suit in their courts will hound him from now until he's dead.

F all of these f'ing f'ers. If our own French Revolution ever comes... I sincerely hope that judges are the first to lose their inflated heads. "Balance of power" means NOTHING to these little nazis. They think that THEY have the final say in everything. It's un-American and it's messed-up. And we have generations of trial lawyer politicians to thank for handing over the power to them.

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:57:01 PM EDT

[#38]

In before "this must be California's fault"

Posted: 3/17/2017 2:59:50 PM EDT

[#39]

Whoa.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:01:45 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
The moral of the story is this: never keep any records you are not legally obliged to keep.

View Quote

Federal Bureau of Investigation Special Agent John Shipley agrees with you.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/elpaso/press-releases/2010/ep082410.htm

No records. No conviction.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:02:08 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
If there is a state law saying you can't sue a range due to noise...and they sue because of noise...isn't that against the law?

Why a court even allows this to proceed is beyond me...

View Quote

The court is in on it. Have you ever been made aware of a court that doesn't LOVE to flex its judicial muscle and force the lowly citizens to bow to them? Sure... there are a few scattered judges with common sense and a lack of desire to impose their will upon everyone else. I actually know one District judge and friend who married my wife and I) and she loves the law and seems most interested in actual JUSTICE under the law... what a concept! But we have been nearly completely overrun by arrogant, leftist, ACTIVIST judges. They sit on the bench and DARE the citizens to question their rights under the Constitution. They truly have Napoleon complexes. I've long said that if I were a judge, I'd probably be known for throwing out every bullshit lawsuit that hit my courtroom. But then I'd be over-turned by liberal state supreme courts or District courts of appeal and be completely silenced. Judges even pull power plays over their own. It's power run amok.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:07:18 PM EDT

[#42]

Anyone have a copy of the complaint?

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:15:38 PM EDT

[#43]

Shot a 3 gun match at Peacemaker a couple years ago. Its literally in the middle of "the sticks" with a one lane barely paved road that winds a couple miles to gain access.

This has to be a person who decided to move to the "country", but doesn't want the sounds and smells of the country.

Kind of sucks, I'm on the list now because I had to sign their waiver to shoot.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:19:29 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Anyone have a copy of the complaint?

View Quote

https://www.mywvbar.org/civicrm/file?reset=1&id=10802&eid=27224

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:30:24 PM EDT

[#45]

Looking at google earth, that is a bad ass range. Hopefully the plaintiff gets their shit knocked out of court.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:31:01 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
In before "this must be California's fault"

View Quote

Looks like it is California's fault

Pursuant to Rule 8.0(b) of the Rules for Admission to the Practice of Law in the
State of West Virginia, I, Michael Goldstein, being duly sworn, hereby depose and state as
follows:
l . I am a member in good standing and admitted to practice before the Bar of
the Supreme Court of the State of California (California Bar No. 95128).

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:32:15 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:

https://www.mywvbar.org/civicrm/file?reset=1&id=10802&eid=27224

View Quote

Thats the motion for admission pro hac vice. California lawyer named Goldstein representing the Goldsteins.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:34:50 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
If the range was smart they would contact every LE agency that ever trained there and make them aware that their officers information was about to be shared with a private party or made public. That might get something moving.

View Quote

This

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:46:25 PM EDT

[#49]

Almost in DC...must be the Capital commuters getting their panties in a bunch...No safe spaces.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:48:04 PM EDT

[#50]

These people are on a jihad. Lefties moved close to a range in southern Oregon, and, as memory serves, couldn't shut it down on noise or safety grounds, so they filed suit saying that the lead from the range was seeping into the water and threatening wildlife.

View Quote

10 years ago, at SHOT Show, an NSSF lawyer giving a presentation on range best practices said that every EPA complaint over lead abatement at a range first began as a noise complaint from a neighbor -- usually a NEW neighbor.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WV Shooting Range has nuisance complaint filed against it (Page 1 of 4)

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