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Link Posted: 1/9/2018 12:14:43 AM EDT
[#1]
BTW, one minor question, aside from all others. How do you know where you are going? That planet you think you found xxx light years away? that was xxx years ago + the yyyy years it will take to get there at a fraction of light speed; how would you even know there's going to anything worth getting to? Suppose you were a tropical reptile species,  and you found the perfect place, a planet ideal for your needs. Warm swamps and so on. Off you go to start a colony And you get there 3200 years later after the 9000 years it took the light to get to your telescope and you arrive 237 years after a massive asteroid impact wiped out most of the advanced species and it was ice age time. Suppose you are a yeti species and you find the perfect spot, ice and snow and glaciers. Again though, it takes xxxxx years for you to get here, and by then it's now, not 20K years ago, when you saw the ice planet of Hoth in your telescope.
Oops.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 12:19:16 AM EDT
[#2]
I don't even know why it was called Hoth. It should have been called Coldth.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 12:25:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Scott Kelly will never fully recover from spending only one year in microgravity, btw. He is permanently altered physiologically. That's one year. The list of things wrong after that year is profoundly significant, too. Joints and muscles deteriorated, enlarged heart, vision, vascular abnormalities, CNS changes. How much gravity is needed to avoid that? We don't and can't know till we try it, and try it with enough people to get a mean avg.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 12:32:00 AM EDT
[#4]
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Scott Kelly will never fully recover from spending only one year in microgravity, btw. He is permanently altered physiologically. That's one year. The list of things wrong after that year is profoundly significant, too. Joints and muscles deteriorated, enlarged heart, vision, vascular abnormalities, CNS changes. How much gravity is needed to avoid that? We don't and can't know till we try it, and try it with enough people to get a mean avg.
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If we’re going to spin a habitat to maintain gravity why not make it 1g? If we have mastered gravity/antigravity we can make it whatever we want.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 12:43:20 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

If we’re going to spin a habitat to maintain gravity why not make it 1g? If we have mastered gravity/antigravity we can make it whatever we want.
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Math.

Not being flippant. To spin for 1g effective is impractical, because it has to be big enough that the difference over 6' is imperceptable (The avg height of a man), otherwise, you stumble around with vertigo and disorientation. We'll need some vanadium-unobtainium alloy, or at least some nifty ass graphene composite stuff.
Gotta spin dow and spin back up if anything needs worked on outside, too.
and even though an accelerometer on the rim seems like it measures 1G as if it was gravity it isn't gravity and does not behave like gravity in many ways. So everything has to be designed to work with spin and without spin. Toilets, sinks, etc.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 12:53:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Another thing, space isn't empty, and especially interstellar space isn't empty. It's more cluttered than interplanetary space, because planets keep it cleaner, vacuuming up the bits with gravity.
At .1C a small piece of fishtank gravel will blow a hole in your ship the size of a fist or bigger, unless you build out of battleship plate, which you can't do, because cosmic radiation will turn masses of metal into radioactive nucleides. and there is a LOT of gravel in a column, say in a circle 120' wide and 217,030,752,000,000 miles long (that's 37 light-years), which is how much space you have to pass through to get some where 37 light years away.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 12:59:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Get us off of this rock.  We have all out eggs in one basket right now.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 1:00:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Forget religion, forget UFO's, and bigfoot.  None of that is real.   Forget all of the mythologies.  What's really amazing is the human mind.  It's worth saving.  It's worth spreading out into the unknown.  It can't die here.  Do you agree?
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Quoted: Wow there are so many red herring fallacies in this thread.

As much as I think exploration is good, the answer for humanity is not landing on other planets or getting to other solar systems.

We live in a fallen universe because we're sinful, and redemption from sin is not available in a "geographic cure."

Human dignity comes from the fact that we are created in the image of our Creator.
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I think it's worthwhile that i clarify my statement.

God calls this little blue dot our home, and will redeem it for those who choose to believe.  We act like we're in charge, and for millennia, we've failed to become immortal, or have a cure for the common cold.  In my original post, quoted above, I was addressing Qweevox's statement that religion isn't real.  Exploring our solar system and calling religion fake have nothing to do with each other, thus the red herring fallacy reference.

None of us know the future, and saying earth is going to be impacted by a life ending asteroid is absolutely impossible to know.

I'll also reference that I don't think there is life outside of our planet, or failed civilizations that tried to reach out, because there is no way to know.  We don't have any proof of it.  I also point out that earth was placed in what science knows to be a habitable zone of our sun, and I don't think that is a random.  I also believe that Jupiter was placed in our solar system as a shield of sorts to be an asteroid magnet, to help earth be able to survive for us.

I didn't say that planetary exploration is a bad thing---I said humanity's redemption is not based on getting to other planets.

God knows his plans for us, each and every person ever conceived, whether we acknowledge it or choose to not listen.  The dignity we have as people comes from being created in the image of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit---the Triune God) and God's creation of Adam and breathing life into his being.  In the New Testament, II Timothy 3:16 says all scripture is God breathed, and seeing the Bible teaching us why God breathed life into Adam----I find those 2 facts highly compelling to be a Christ follower.

It is my hope that someone reads this and that a seed is planted, and that God cultivates that seed to be fruitful.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 1:23:06 AM EDT
[#9]
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Hyperbole, my man. You has it.
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The threat of a Nazi victory or the threat of an extinction level event. Which is worse?
Hyperbole, my man. You has it.
They are the outcomes in discussion. Answer the question or resign yourself to your great great great great great grandchildren dying just like they would in space.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 1:31:35 AM EDT
[#10]
I think the real prize is in quantum physics. Understand how everything works and why it works, then little things like the problem of FTL travel will work themselves out. I'm not entirely convinced all of this isn't some kind of simulation. The worst part is that if it is just a simulation, that means everything we wish could change about our lives and reality itself could be changed, but whatever is running the simulation just isn't interested in doing for you what it does for lottery winners and people who bought bitcoin 3 years ago.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 3:13:47 AM EDT
[#11]
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I think the real prize is in quantum physics. Understand how everything works and why it works, then little things like the problem of FTL travel will work themselves out. I'm not entirely convinced all of this isn't some kind of simulation. The worst part is that if it is just a simulation, that means everything we wish could change about our lives and reality itself could be changed, but whatever is running the simulation just isn't interested in doing for you what it does for lottery winners and people who bought bitcoin 3 years ago.
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It might all be a simulation.  Hell, it's likely that's what it is. But we have to play like it's important.

We have the technology to get off this rock.  We have the technology to go .1-.4C, which is enough.  We can at the very least expand to several planetary bodies in this solar system. If are ambitious we could colonize more than a few local star systems.

All with what we can do right now.

I think we need to get on with it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 3:33:05 AM EDT
[#12]
that may be our destiny, provided we don't get bogged down or sidetracked and fall from the challenge.

every telescope, satellite, orbiter, observer, rover, etc.. we send out is us gathering the information, illuminating a path ahead.
We are seeking inhabitable planets and any other knowledge or opportunity.

this task is a long one.
look how long it takes for humans to spread on this planet..

reaching the planets in our own solar system is an extreme challenge and advanced task for the human race, the front of our aggressive wandering exploring curious nature.. but they aren't inhabitable short of creating biospheres or contained stations

getting further than our solar system... that is way way out there
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:07:52 AM EDT
[#13]
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I thought we were talking about OUR debt/GDP ratio.

As far as other countries, didn't your mother ever ask you "If your friends all jumped off a cliff, would you follow?" Mine did.

You say economic collapse is unlikely. But then you say it is urgent that we make provision for a mass extinction event, which is FAR more unlikely. Like, 66 million years ago unlikely.

My head be shaking.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Click on the link. You'll see that our current level of debt is nothing special compared to other nations, including other first world nations. Question for you: When was the last time a first world nation suffered a peace time economic collapse due to its government debt?
I thought we were talking about OUR debt/GDP ratio.

As far as other countries, didn't your mother ever ask you "If your friends all jumped off a cliff, would you follow?" Mine did.

You say economic collapse is unlikely. But then you say it is urgent that we make provision for a mass extinction event, which is FAR more unlikely. Like, 66 million years ago unlikely.

My head be shaking.
You don't seem to realize that the same rules of economics that govern the viability and solvency of the US government apply to other nations as well. Since that is the case, we can look at other nations for comparison in order to get a better sense of our current position. This is not complicated stuff lol. You just worked yourself into a frenzy at some point in the past over "muh deficit" lol. I also notice you didn't bother to try to answer my question about the last time a first world nation suffered a peace time economic collapse as a result of government debt. The answer to that question is never.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:25:06 AM EDT
[#14]
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You don't seem to realize that the same rules of economics that govern the viability and solvency of the US government apply to other nations as well. Since that is the case, we can look at other nations for comparison, in order to get a better sense of our current position. This is not complicated stuff lol. You just worked yourself into a frenzy at some point in the past over "muh deficit" lol. I also notice you didn't bother to try to answer my question about the last time a first world nation suffered a peace time economic collapse as a result of government debt. The answer to that question is never.
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And nuclear powers have never had open hostilities. And humans have never observed an extinction level event on earth.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:35:25 AM EDT
[#15]
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Nope. Whats the sense wasting my effort if deaths the end? Theres no afterlife, just nothing, so why should I give a fuck about the future?
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Good thing your ancestors did not have the same attitude.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:37:18 AM EDT
[#16]
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We need to fix ourselves and our house/planet before we even think about venturing far off this rock.
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Why does it have be either, not both? They are not mutually exclusive, and this attitude is childish.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:38:48 AM EDT
[#17]
but when?

humankind is not ready to reach into the stars yet.

perhaps we never will be... I suspect we will all kill each other in some way or another long before having the tech to do it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:41:36 AM EDT
[#18]
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That would require nukes in space. Good luck getting nukes in space to be controlled by a supranational government. Good luck getting them in space with a single nation state without a huge arms race.
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We just need better early warning and planetary defense systems.  That might actually be a halfway decent reason to build a permanent settlement on the moon.
That would require nukes in space. Good luck getting nukes in space to be controlled by a supranational government. Good luck getting them in space with a single nation state without a huge arms race.
Very few plans for asteroid defense involve nukes. The best defense is to change the orbit, not break it into more pieces.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:56:22 AM EDT
[#19]
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Scott Kelly will never fully recover from spending only one year in microgravity, btw. He is permanently altered physiologically. That's one year. The list of things wrong after that year is profoundly significant, too. Joints and muscles deteriorated, enlarged heart, vision, vascular abnormalities, CNS changes. How much gravity is needed to avoid that? We don't and can't know till we try it, and try it with enough people to get a mean avg.
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You're right. Space is scary. We shouldn't go there.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 10:11:43 AM EDT
[#20]
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Scott Kelly will never fully recover from spending only one year in microgravity, btw. He is permanently altered physiologically. That's one year. The list of things wrong after that year is profoundly significant, too. Joints and muscles deteriorated, enlarged heart, vision, vascular abnormalities, CNS changes. How much gravity is needed to avoid that? We don't and can't know till we try it, and try it with enough people to get a mean avg.
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And this is why we did this.  Mr. Kelly has paid a terrible price... as have all the pioneers before him, like the men who died on Apollo 1.  Now we know this; we know not to have pure O2 atmospheres, and we know not to leave humans in microgravity for a year.  Now we can start working on how to fix or get around this.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 10:13:59 AM EDT
[#21]
No one landed on the moon!
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 10:19:08 AM EDT
[#22]
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Why does it have be either, not both? They are not mutually exclusive, and this attitude is childish.
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We need to fix ourselves and our house/planet before we even think about venturing far off this rock.
Why does it have be either, not both? They are not mutually exclusive, and this attitude is childish.
Amen, we certainly need to take care of ourselves here on this rock but that does not stop us from exploring the oceans deeps, colonizing the other rocks in this system, and developing some way to travel between the stars. Its not going to happen quickly but it needs to happen if we as a species want to survive.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 10:19:27 AM EDT
[#23]
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Why does it have be either, not both? They are not mutually exclusive, and this attitude is childish.
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We need to fix ourselves and our house/planet before we even think about venturing far off this rock.
Why does it have be either, not both? They are not mutually exclusive, and this attitude is childish.
Exactly.  This is like the commie thinking: "until EVERYONE can have this, then NO ONE is allowed to have this!"  The perfection you want will NEVER be accomplished; if we wait until we get to some "perfect state" on earth, we will never even begin the crucial work of getting a colony on the moon, Mars, Mercury, or wherever, much less to another solar system.  I'd rather that we start working on this now, than have us starting from scratch when we notice some planet-sized asteroid bearing down on us.  There will be no time left then, and this is gonna take a while.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 10:50:04 AM EDT
[#24]
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We have the technology to go .1C, and maybe .4C right now.
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Show me the math.

How much fuel (fission/fusion) will a 1000 ton craft need to accelerate to 0.1C then decelerate to orbit another planet.

Once you have that calculated get back to us on the feasibility of your statement.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 10:58:12 AM EDT
[#25]
"Is it worth spreading out into the unknown?"

Uh, yes..............DUH!!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 11:19:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Interstellar really is out of our grasp for now. We need to learn how to live in space, using a truly closed ecology.

There is plenty in the Solar system for us to build a robust, multi-homed human civilization which would make an excellent jumping-off point for interstellar travel.

But we need to keep hammering at it. The "earth first" clan cannot be allowed to win.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 11:23:11 AM EDT
[#27]
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Interstellar really is out of our grasp for now. We need to learn how to live in space, using a truly closed ecology.

There is plenty in the Solar system for us to build a robust, multi-homed human civilization which would make an excellent jumping-off point for interstellar travel.

But we need to keep hammering at it. The "earth first" clan cannot be allowed to win.
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Sounds like something a liberal would say. ‘America first must not be allowed to win’
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 2:09:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 2:25:33 PM EDT
[#29]
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And nuclear powers have never had open hostilities. And humans have never observed an extinction level event on earth.
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You don't seem to realize that the same rules of economics that govern the viability and solvency of the US government apply to other nations as well. Since that is the case, we can look at other nations for comparison, in order to get a better sense of our current position. This is not complicated stuff lol. You just worked yourself into a frenzy at some point in the past over "muh deficit" lol. I also notice you didn't bother to try to answer my question about the last time a first world nation suffered a peace time economic collapse as a result of government debt. The answer to that question is never.
And nuclear powers have never had open hostilities. And humans have never observed an extinction level event on earth.
Bad analogy. Lots of governments HAVE had a shit-ton of debt in the past. It hasn't led to the economic collapse of any first world nation in peace time.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:04:30 PM EDT
[#30]
I like to imagine hollowing out a moon or large asteroid and using it as a space station or craft could work nicely. Or mine asteroids for materials and use giant flying 3D maker bots to construct monolithic structures in space. I’d say that’s within the realm of possibility short term.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:11:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Go look around your local Wal-Mart and ask yourself if you really think humans could go colonize other worlds without fucking them up.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:15:41 PM EDT
[#32]
We are a greater threat to our own existence, than the Sun becoming a Red Giant. If we manage not to blow each other up or release some super bioweapon virus.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:20:22 PM EDT
[#33]
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We are a greater threat to our own existence, than the Sun becoming a Red Giant. If we manage not to blow each other up or release some super bioweapon virus.
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Dispersion of the species could mitigate the effects of both scenarios you presented.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 9:48:32 PM EDT
[#34]
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I like to imagine hollowing out a moon or large asteroid and using it as a space station or craft could work nicely. Or mine asteroids for materials and use giant flying 3D maker bots to construct monolithic structures in space. I’d say that’s within the realm of possibility short term.
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I've been thinking similar. Other than getting enough manufacturing capacity to become self-replicating out of Earth's gravity well there isn't any big technological hurdle between where we are and a fully realized type-2 civilization. AI, automation, additive manufacturing, fission and ion/plasma drives are all we really need. Ceres has enough water to power our endeavors until we get to Kuiper. Falcon architecture is probably enough heavy-lift to pull it off if the tech we need to launch is efficient enough.

I think we'll be really rolling on space industry beyond LEO in 50 years, which is good because I don't think we have 1000 years to get started as another poster did, things will go really wrong in that much time without a frontier, we'll lose too much of what's really valuable and rare on Earth too.

I don't remember where I read it but somebody wrote about using a moon or minor planet as an interstellar vehicle back in the 70's, to try to solve the collision/radiation problem. There was a lot of fun stuff going on back when people believed the shuttle was going to get us to cheap heavy lift. The amazing thing is how much easier a lot of those ideas would be to implement with current or near-future tech.
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 11:46:33 PM EDT
[#35]
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Go look around your local Wal-Mart and ask yourself if you really think humans could go colonize other worlds without fucking them up.
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Think how few people manage to explore the frontier of the "New World" initially.  The first settlements were government funded endeavors but eventually those initial colonies become the jumping off points for the explorers and mountain men that really opened up the frontier in ways the government colonies never could.  Initially there where very few people that could walk into that wilderness and survive let alone thrive, but a few did (and many many more died trying) and that laid the foundation for more people to follow.

Same with space.  Yes its going to take a lot of government/corporate effort to get the first few colonies up out of this gravity well and self-sustaining but eventually there will be enough colonies that are far enough out of the gravity well that the space age version of the mountain men will arrive and humans will spread out beyond the government funded colonies.  The new frontier will be open.

Same for interstellar space travel but that time scale is much much longer...
Link Posted: 1/9/2018 11:50:31 PM EDT
[#36]
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I don’t like to make assumptions like that.

We only have a sample of ONE - which means that generalization is impossible.

We THINK we have intelligence, but we may not really even know what it means.

In the same way that some apes have rudimentary intelligence (in terms of learning simple words, commands, etc.) they CANNOT comprehend what our intelligence is like.  They are completely unable to grasp things like syntax, mathematics, etc.

By the same token, we may be simply apes to someone who has “real” intelligence, and we may be completely unable to comprehend what it is.

I mean, we’re cute and all, but there’s no actual evidence that we’re something special.  That is merely a self-serving conclusion we’ve reached because it makes us feel good about ourselves.
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Link Posted: 1/10/2018 1:30:43 AM EDT
[#37]
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Think how few people manage to explore the frontier of the "New World" initially.  The first settlements were government funded endeavors but eventually those initial colonies become the jumping off points for the explorers and mountain men that really opened up the frontier in ways the government colonies never could.  Initially there where very few people that could walk into that wilderness and survive let alone thrive, but a few did (and many many more died trying) and that laid the foundation for more people to follow.

Same with space.  Yes its going to take a lot of government/corporate effort to get the first few colonies up out of this gravity well and self-sustaining but eventually there will be enough colonies that are far enough out of the gravity well that the space age version of the mountain men will arrive and humans will spread out beyond the government funded colonies.  The new frontier will be open.

Same for interstellar space travel but that time scale is much much longer...
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Except they could literally walk into the wilderness and survive. Space requires a huge industrial base and billions of dollars from the most logistically and agriculturally blessed parts of earth. It's a significant barrier to entry.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 11:08:23 AM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:

Think how few people manage to explore the frontier of the "New World" initially.  The first settlements were government funded endeavors but eventually those initial colonies become the jumping off points for the explorers and mountain men that really opened up the frontier in ways the government colonies never could.  Initially there where very few people that could walk into that wilderness and survive let alone thrive, but a few did (and many many more died trying) and that laid the foundation for more people to follow.

Same with space.  Yes its going to take a lot of government/corporate effort to get the first few colonies up out of this gravity well and self-sustaining but eventually there will be enough colonies that are far enough out of the gravity well that the space age version of the mountain men will arrive and humans will spread out beyond the government funded colonies.  The new frontier will be open.

Same for interstellar space travel but that time scale is much much longer...
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Yep, there's been a few sci-fi stories about the... unsociable miners that work the asteroid belt.  Go out, find a mineral-rich asteroid, haul it in, make enough $$$ for your next binge at the outpost bar orbiting Ceres, lather, rinse, repeat.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 11:34:51 AM EDT
[#39]
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but when?

humankind is not ready to reach into the stars yet.

perhaps we never will be... I suspect we will all kill each other in some way or another long before having the tech to do it.
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At the rate we are devolving via Progressive Liberalism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Islamism and the complete drowning of western civilization by the third world, all of which not only as acts as deterrent to advancement but an ebb pulling mankind backwards.  I suspect man will be plunged back in to the dark ages again before we ever get the the tech to do it.

Unless of course we wake up and abolish all the above and free our individuality to be the best we can be everyone else be damn, then not even the sky is the limit.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 11:43:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Works for me. Get me the frak off this rock. There's no intelligent life here.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 11:53:48 AM EDT
[#41]
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At the rate we are devolving via Progressive Liberalism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Islamism and the complete drowning of western civilization by the third world, all of which not only as acts as deterrent to advancement but an ebb pulling mankind backwards.  I suspect man will be plunged back in to the dark ages again before we ever get the the tech to do it.

Unless of course we wake up and abolish all the above and free our individuality to be the best we can be everyone else be damn, then not even the sky is the limit.
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but when?

humankind is not ready to reach into the stars yet.

perhaps we never will be... I suspect we will all kill each other in some way or another long before having the tech to do it.
At the rate we are devolving via Progressive Liberalism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Islamism and the complete drowning of western civilization by the third world, all of which not only as acts as deterrent to advancement but an ebb pulling mankind backwards.  I suspect man will be plunged back in to the dark ages again before we ever get the the tech to do it.

Unless of course we wake up and abolish all the above and free our individuality to be the best we can be everyone else be damn, then not even the sky is the limit.
We'll be going back to a time of magic and mysticism. Of wonder. And rape! Lots of rape!
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 11:56:03 AM EDT
[#42]
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Go look around your local Wal-Mart and ask yourself if you really think humans could go colonize other worlds without fucking them up.
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The welfare Walmart shoppers will be left behind. All cargo cults fold.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 12:07:16 PM EDT
[#43]
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We'll be going back to a time of magic and mysticism. Of wonder. And rape! Lots of rape!
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but when?

humankind is not ready to reach into the stars yet.

perhaps we never will be... I suspect we will all kill each other in some way or another long before having the tech to do it.
At the rate we are devolving via Progressive Liberalism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Islamism and the complete drowning of western civilization by the third world, all of which not only as acts as deterrent to advancement but an ebb pulling mankind backwards.  I suspect man will be plunged back in to the dark ages again before we ever get the the tech to do it.

Unless of course we wake up and abolish all the above and free our individuality to be the best we can be everyone else be damn, then not even the sky is the limit.
We'll be going back to a time of magic and mysticism. Of wonder. And rape! Lots of rape!
* You could be right on the money. Modern conveniences which have become common enough could be considered supernatural to the uninitiated. Photographic images were thought to steal the subject’s soul by primitive tribes. What is mundane is to one is frightening to another. At some point, will we ourselves even be able to distinguish the difference between the two? Technology vs Supernatural or Technology is Supernatural.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 1:57:38 PM EDT
[#44]
There are some large hurdles to jump before we can even discuss going extraterrestrial.
Energy- No current way to make large amounts of energy efficiently, we would need close to 1 to 1 conversion of mass to energy
Propulsion- all current propulsion requires ejected mass, and any of the current technologies that could sustain 1g acceleration would require to much fuel to be used.
Radiation- All of our space exploration w/humans so far has been in the protection of the earths magnetic field, any long term travel outside that field would require advanced....and heavy shielding
...and the thousand of other currently unobtainable things

Sadly I have a feeling that most of these problems may only be solved in science fiction
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 2:00:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There are some large hurdles to jump before we can even discuss going extraterrestrial.
Energy- No current way to make large amounts of energy efficiently, we would need close to 1 to 1 conversion of mass to energy
Propulsion- all current propulsion requires ejected mass, and any of the current technologies that could sustain 1g acceleration would require to much fuel to be used.
Radiation- All of our space exploration w/humans so far has been in the protection of the earths magnetic field, any long term travel outside that field would require advanced....and heavy shielding
...and the thousand of other currently unobtainable things

Sadly I have a feeling that most of these problems may only be solved in science fiction
View Quote
To be pragmatic, everything we take for granted today was at one time science fiction.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 2:07:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There are some large hurdles to jump before we can even discuss going extraterrestrial.
Energy- No current way to make large amounts of energy efficiently, we would need close to 1 to 1 conversion of mass to energy
Propulsion- all current propulsion requires ejected mass, and any of the current technologies that could sustain 1g acceleration would require to much fuel to be used.
Radiation- All of our space exploration w/humans so far has been in the protection of the earths magnetic field, any long term travel outside that field would require advanced....and heavy shielding
...and the thousand of other currently unobtainable things

Sadly I have a feeling that most of these problems may only be solved in science fiction
View Quote
Well, scifi is where many of those problems ARE solved.  I believe it was Clark who came up with the idea of geosynchronous satellites; and that is no longer science fiction, it's now science fact.  Remember, I have a little gizmo on my belt, smaller than a pack of cards, that lets me stand in the middle of an empty field and talk to someone on the other side of the planet.  In real time.  Just 40 years ago, that was the wildest science fiction.  Now, it's commonplace.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 2:13:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
* You could be right on the money. Modern conveniences which have become common enough could be considered supernatural to the uninitiated. Photographic images were thought to steal the subject’s soul by primitive tribes. What is mundane is to one is frightening to another. At some point, will we ourselves even be able to distinguish the difference between the two? Technology vs Supernatural or Technology is Supernatural.
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View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
but when?

humankind is not ready to reach into the stars yet.

perhaps we never will be... I suspect we will all kill each other in some way or another long before having the tech to do it.
At the rate we are devolving via Progressive Liberalism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Islamism and the complete drowning of western civilization by the third world, all of which not only as acts as deterrent to advancement but an ebb pulling mankind backwards.  I suspect man will be plunged back in to the dark ages again before we ever get the the tech to do it.

Unless of course we wake up and abolish all the above and free our individuality to be the best we can be everyone else be damn, then not even the sky is the limit.
We'll be going back to a time of magic and mysticism. Of wonder. And rape! Lots of rape!
* You could be right on the money. Modern conveniences which have become common enough could be considered supernatural to the uninitiated. Photographic images were thought to steal the subject’s soul by primitive tribes. What is mundane is to one is frightening to another. At some point, will we ourselves even be able to distinguish the difference between the two? Technology vs Supernatural or Technology is Supernatural.
Clarke's third law. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

The tech singularity is essentially humanity bringing magic into being. Once the technology gets away from us we'll live in a world where magic exists.

Regarding all the "isms" holding us back and bringing on a dark age, a free marketplace of ideas is essential to our survival and our freedom, error is essential to maximizing fitness, and if your ideas losing seems inevitable, you need better ideas.

It's dogma that's likely to kill us all.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 3:01:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Forget religion, forget UFO's, and bigfoot.  None of that is real.   Forget all of the mythologies.  What's really amazing is the human mind.  It's worth saving.  It's worth spreading out into the unknown.  It can't die here.

Do you agree?
View Quote
If UFOs don't exist, then how can other habitable planets exist since there is no other life out there?
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 7:32:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
To be pragmatic, everything we take for granted today was at one time science fiction.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are some large hurdles to jump before we can even discuss going extraterrestrial.
Energy- No current way to make large amounts of energy efficiently, we would need close to 1 to 1 conversion of mass to energy
Propulsion- all current propulsion requires ejected mass, and any of the current technologies that could sustain 1g acceleration would require to much fuel to be used.
Radiation- All of our space exploration w/humans so far has been in the protection of the earths magnetic field, any long term travel outside that field would require advanced....and heavy shielding
...and the thousand of other currently unobtainable things

Sadly I have a feeling that most of these problems may only be solved in science fiction
To be pragmatic, everything we take for granted today was at one time science fiction.
Amen, we live in an earlier generation's Sci-Fi universe.
Link Posted: 1/10/2018 7:59:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Any spacecraft that leaves the solar system for the stars will have a shell of ice that might be miles thick, and provide hydrogen for fusion, oxygen for life, physical protection from radiation and impacts etc. Water is a great propellant. Any water source such as Europa or Ceres would suffice. Water is also plentiful in the universe and can be pretty reliably replenished. Whether you have nuclear powered platforms launching modular ice blocks into orbit or a pumping station sending liquid up a relatively short space elevator, there is nothing that needs much in the way of imagination to make that feasible. The iron and other minerals needed are up there too. An effective magnetic shield on that scale is feasible, a magnetic field generating satellite protecting mars has already been proposed. A true colony ship is only a matter of scale.

The large amount of mass that needs to be moved isn’t a problem when the mass is also your fuel. Once you can achieve a gravity slingshot it is irrelevant.  The metal skinned craft are lifeboats. A constellation of satellites would give warning of objects that needed navigational separation.

I’m not seeing anything technologically challenging other than fusion technology that needs to mature. The rest is a matter of scale, time and will.

We can throw a few trillion in bitcoin at it to get started right? Who’s with me?
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