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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:47:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Hard to hide an M1 Garand in a backpack if stealth is a top priority. Pop out a screw and AK's buttt stock slides off ;both parts go into a normal sized backpack.
Standoff is fine until the enemy works himself inside your perimeter. <150 m? AK wins. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:49:27 AM EDT
[#2]
The AK is also going to be a lot easier to deploy from a 911. Assuming the 911 is your bug out vehicle(which it should be)
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:52:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The AK is also going to be a lot easier to deploy from a 911. Assuming the 911 is your bug out vehicle(which it should be) https://i.imgur.com/OnZot0R.jpg Do you even bugaloo? This is what a well dressed professor uses for a bug out vehicle.  
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:54:47 AM EDT
[#4]
I choose both. All.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:56:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you even bugaloo? This is what a well dressed professor uses for a bug out vehicle. https://www.maxim.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_80%2Cw_620/MTQ0OTcwODk5MTA2MzA5Njk3/kelly-moss-porsche-911-964-safari2-rally-car.jpg -1pt for not being yellow enough +1000 for being air cooled |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:57:35 AM EDT
[#6]
I can't lift a Garand.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:58:05 AM EDT
[#7]
The AK will still hit man sized targets at 300 yards, too. And penetrate most intermediate barriers that I'd need to shoot through.
The size of the 30-06 cartridge is great when you care about achieving a clean humane kill with a single hit on the animal you're hunting. That isn't really a prime concern with human-vs-human combat engagements. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:58:57 AM EDT
[#8]
AK... fuck being limited to 8 rounds, even if it is .30-06
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:59:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe in Russia. Here in the US, you will find FAR more .30-'06 in the wild than 7.62x39. It's a common hunting caliber and has been so for years. Most rural homes will have some. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 7.62x39 will be available over 30.06 in easily a 20:1 ratio. Back into the question from the other direction - you see two guys standing there. One holding an AK, the other with a garand. You're not a gun guy, just a thug wanting to take from these people. Which one poses the bigger threat to you and your peeps? Maybe in Russia. Here in the US, you will find FAR more .30-'06 in the wild than 7.62x39. It's a common hunting caliber and has been so for years. Most rural homes will have some. 20+ years ago, maybe. .30-06 is, in many ways, a dying/niche cartridge. A lot of people migrated to .308 long ago, and now people are moving on from .308. .30-06 hunting rifles are very slow sellers and have been for at least the last decade. Only Milsurps and old school hunters keep it alive. The other issue here is that .30-06 ammo retails for ~$20 a box. Other than the PPU Garand loads, nobody buys .30-06 in bulk. The house of a .30-06 owner might have a box and a half of Core-Lokt sitting in their garage. 7.62x39 has been growing in prevalence since the '90s. Guys were buying SKSs bundled with cases of cheap ammo left and right, and that ammo is still found for sale locally on a regular basis. The explosion in AK popularity after the AWB expired kept the party rolling. And a whole hell of a lot more 7.62x39 shooters buy in bulk... |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:00:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK. Compact and good enough for deer/elk and good for burglars. This. Not even a comparison. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:03:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I know that many of you might immediately think "AK" because it is more modern, has bigger mags, etc., and that seems like an obvious choice. BUT, I believe this is actually a pretty good question, especially because I am talking about comparing the two BASIC configurations. So a factory Garand vs. a iron sighted, wood stocked AKM with no fancy upgrades, rails, etc. Just your basic AK. (I guess, since we are talking about a scenario here in the US, let's assume a semi-auto version - so something like a basic Romanian WASR). To me, I like the added versatility of the AK and the larger ammo capacity, as well as the intermediate cartridge, allowing me to carry more ammo for the same weight - especially if we are talking about bugging out and only carrying a backpack and rifle. The lower weight if the AK is obviously a huge advantage in that case. BUT, because we are talking about surviving in some sort of Mad Max scenario  , much of our time would probably be spent on avoiding people, evading, and keeping our distance - not charging into CQB and MOUT fighting. From that perspective, the Garand is vastly superior, IMO, because of the better accuracy, stronger cartridge, and infinitely better sights. Hitting a man at 200-300 yards is not difficult at all with a Garand. In terms of long-term survival, the Garand is obviously much better suited for hunting as well, with a cartridge that can handle almost any game in North America.What say you? ETA: For this scenario, let's assume you have 10,000 rounds of ammo at your house. So if you need to bug out, then the only limit on ammo is how much you are willing/able to carry. I still go with the AK. Not only for the reasons you stated, but because I can clean it and lube it with a dirty rag and the oil I drain out of an old car. Big steel banana mags are easier to keep track of if dropped. And if I’m 200 yards away from something or someone, why do I even need to let it know I’m there? If they see me first and have the drop on me, I’m no more bullet proof with a Garand than I am with an AK. And if we both know each other are there, the AK is superior at laying down cover fire so I can maneuver away from them or into a better position. While I agree with the assessment of the Garand’s advantages, I just don’t think the odds of those advantages becoming THE deciding factors in an engagement outweigh the likelihood of the AK’s advantages becoming THE deciding factors. That said, I wouldn’t necessarily feel under-gunned if I only had a Garand. The vast majority of encounters are going to be decided by who sees whom first and what their intentions are when they do see someone. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:05:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, I have a thousand rounds laid in for my 30-06 hunting rifle.  How many rounds of 5.56 do you have? Anyone who stockpiles 30-06 is absolutely also stockpiling something in a mag fed auto-loader flavor. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:05:46 PM EDT
[#13]
You know a lot of the shit we are talking about is splitting hairs. The biggest reason I choose the AK is that I am much more familiar with it's manual of arms and have way more time using an AK than an M1.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:07:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not even sure why this is a thought exercise. AK = lighter, compact, higher capacity, less recoil. Garand = Long, heavy, low capacity(clip ting sound lets your enemy know when your empty,) heavy recoil. Are you SERIOUS about the highlighted part? That bullshit claim has been repeated (and disproved) a bazillion times already. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:09:46 PM EDT
[#15]
tech sights and an ALG trigger I didn't know this was out there.. thanks
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:11:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Hmm. Tough choice.
Both shoot fairly common rounds, but I bet 30-06 is easier to come by. The AK holds more rounds, but relies on an external magazine. The Garand is self contained, but cannot operate without the easily-lose/damaged clips. The biggest thing, for me, is that the AK is way smaller. There may be times during your SHTF hypothetical that discretion is required, and walking around with a 4ft long rifle is less than ideal. The AK (especially with a folding stock) will fit into bags/packs that a Garand cannot. Short of long range open area defense, I pick the AK (preferably with folding stock). Make sure you've got a couple of those low profile 10 round mags so that it can be ready-to-go while concealed. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:11:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get the feeling I might be the ONLY person to vote for the Garand.  Nope. I'm with you Garand all the things |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:17:24 PM EDT
[#18]
AK is lighter, handier, easier to maintain, has no ammo restrictions (how much .30-06 is loaded to M2 ball specs these days?) and packs plenty of punch for realistic engagement ranges with iron sights. 30 rounds vs 8 gives you more flexibility to either take the fight to the opponent or get their head down so you can get away. More likelihood of running across replacement parts for an AK, so you can keep it going and maybe scrounge up a rail for a red dot and light. Threaded barrel also means you can add a suppressor if you manage to find or make one.
I love my garand, but these days it's a rifle for the good times, not the bad ones. Also why no old school AR option? |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:18:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20+ years ago, maybe. .30-06 is, in many ways, a dying/niche cartridge. A lot of people migrated to .308 long ago, and now people are moving on from .308. .30-06 hunting rifles are very slow sellers and have been for at least the last decade. Only Milsurps and old school hunters keep it alive. The other issue here is that .30-06 ammo retails for ~$20 a box. Other than the PPU Garand loads, nobody buys .30-06 in bulk. The house of a .30-06 owner might have a box and a half of Core-Lokt sitting in their garage. 7.62x39 has been growing in prevalence since the '90s. Guys were buying SKSs bundled with cases of cheap ammo left and right, and that ammo is still found for sale locally on a regular basis. The explosion in AK popularity after the AWB expired kept the party rolling. And a whole hell of a lot more 7.62x39 shooters buy in bulk... They do, but the 7.62x39 shooters who have bulk ammo are not ones you want to engage, and their bulk stashes are unlikely to be obtainable by you. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:23:14 PM EDT
[#20]
AR>AK>Garand
The Garand isn't a terrible choice, but I'd take my AK before my M1. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:24:29 PM EDT
[#21]
I’ll be the first to say I do not like AKs
 I really like the M1. That said, the AK is the clear winner here assuming is a reliable quality assembled on. SHTF has lots more than fighting going on, and lugging an 11 lbs 42” M1 would get tiresome real quick. At least the AK is a bit lighter and lays well enough across the back while doing chores. Both take bayonets so that’s a tie. Unless you are poor or want to be interpreted as a commie, go AR. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:24:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Garand for me! Mostly because I'm not familiar with AK's outside of the occational range session where somebody brings one along. Can hit anything within practical range with the Garand easily not so much with the AK.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:38:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's an interesting question. Obviously, there are tons of AK variants in the US, so 7.62x39 would be pretty common. But, .30-06 is a very popular hunting cartridge, so it probably wouldn't be impossible to find. Modern ammo will screw up a stock operating rod in a Garand, taking it out of commission. While agreeing with the advantages of a Garand, I'd still probably take the AK. My AO is forest with medium sized game. The 7.62x39 would do everything I'd realistically need it to do. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:42:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Take both.
I would have garand for hunting excursions and the ak for security. If I had to break contact with an unfriendly the 30 round mags or 75 rounds drum would let me keep the pressure up uninterrupted by reloading as often. I would think that encounters out in wide open places like the country could be avoided generally. The danger is when you have to go into a town to forage for something and the distances involved get cut way down. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:42:48 PM EDT
[#25]
.
Garand sights are better. I'd take it for shooting at longer distances. The AKM is superior for pretty much everything else. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:43:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I know that many of you might immediately think "AK" because it is more modern, has bigger mags, etc., and that seems like an obvious choice. BUT, I believe this is actually a pretty good question, especially because I am talking about comparing the two BASIC configurations. So a factory Garand vs. a iron sighted, wood stocked AKM with no fancy upgrades, rails, etc. Just your basic AK. (I guess, since we are talking about a scenario here in the US, let's assume a semi-auto version - so something like a basic Romanian WASR). To me, I like the added versatility of the AK and the larger ammo capacity, as well as the intermediate cartridge, allowing me to carry more ammo for the same weight - especially if we are talking about bugging out and only carrying a backpack and rifle. The lower weight if the AK is obviously a huge advantage in that case. BUT, because we are talking about surviving in some sort of Mad Max scenario , much of our time would probably be spent on avoiding people, evading, and keeping our distance - not charging into CQB and MOUT fighting. From that perspective, the Garand is vastly superior, IMO, because of the better accuracy, stronger cartridge, and infinitely better sights. Hitting a man at 200-300 yards is not difficult at all with a Garand. In terms of long-term survival, the Garand is obviously much better suited for hunting as well, with a cartridge that can handle almost any game in North America.What say you? ETA: For this scenario, let's assume you have 10,000 rounds of ammo at your house. So if you need to bug out, then the only limit on ammo is how much you are willing/able to carry. M1A 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:49:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you even bugaloo? This is what a well dressed professor uses for a bug out vehicle. https://www.maxim.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_80%2Cw_620/MTQ0OTcwODk5MTA2MzA5Njk3/kelly-moss-porsche-911-964-safari2-rally-car.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The AK is also going to be a lot easier to deploy from a 911. Assuming the 911 is your bug out vehicle(which it should be) https://i.imgur.com/OnZot0R.jpg Do you even bugaloo? This is what a well dressed professor uses for a bug out vehicle. https://www.maxim.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_80%2Cw_620/MTQ0OTcwODk5MTA2MzA5Njk3/kelly-moss-porsche-911-964-safari2-rally-car.jpg Sweet vw beetle, brah. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:53:40 PM EDT
[#28]
.
How many of those saying Garand and sporting/hunting ammo can be found have seen what happens to unmodified Garands fed a diet of sporting/hunting ammo? You folks might want to look into that. I like Garands. For a while I was buying 10 @ year from CMP. I'd still go with the AK.  |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:57:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Milled AK using 20 round mags
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:57:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Anyone that doesn't modify the AK to FA in that situation is tarded.
I'd probably still take the M1, and I say that having more M1 malfunctions that most people. (Its real fun when your oprod dismounts during offhand at Camp Perry). One way to think about this is that plenty of people in WW2 swapped carbines (sort of AK like) for M1 rifles when they were doing serious stuff and needed to shoot people through cover. You could make your own adjustable gas plug pretty easily if you had to. About the only time I'd think you'd really need it would be with things like Hornady Superformance. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 12:58:02 PM EDT
[#31]
I am a HUGE fan of the Garand, but for OP's situation, I would choose the AK because of it's higher magazine capacity, lower recoil that allows faster follow up shots, and being more compact. The Garand's biggest advantage would be turning cover into concealment....IOW you can shoot through more things to get whatever is behind it. The greater distance before the bullet becomes transonic isn't as big of an advantage in urban warfare as most shots are shorter.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:01:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone that doesn't modify the AK to FA in that situation is tarded. I'd probably still take the M1, and I say that having more M1 malfunctions that most people. (Its real fun when your oprod dismounts during offhand at Camp Perry). One way to think about this is that plenty of people in WW2 swapped carbines (sort of AK like) for M1 rifles when they were doing serious stuff and needed to shoot people through cover. You could make your own adjustable gas plug pretty easily if you had to. About the only time I'd think you'd really need it would be with things like Hornady Superformance. Yeah - multiple people have tested a wide range of commercial ammo and unless you get up into the heavy bullets (180gr and up) the gas cylinder pressures aren't any higher than LC M2 ball. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:01:19 PM EDT
[#33]
I will say that if I was going to go with a Garand, the .308 CMP special I own would be the one I'd want because it's easier to find .308 or 7.62x51 ammo than Garand-pressure 30.06...
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:05:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: I know that many of you might immediately think "AK" because it is more modern, has bigger mags, etc., and that seems like an obvious choice. BUT, I believe this is actually a pretty good question, especially because I am talking about comparing the two BASIC configurations. So a factory Garand vs. a iron sighted, wood stocked AKM with no fancy upgrades, rails, etc. Just your basic AK. (I guess, since we are talking about a scenario here in the US, let's assume a semi-auto version - so something like a basic Romanian WASR). To me, I like the added versatility of the AK and the larger ammo capacity, as well as the intermediate cartridge, allowing me to carry more ammo for the same weight - especially if we are talking about bugging out and only carrying a backpack and rifle. The lower weight if the AK is obviously a huge advantage in that case. BUT, because we are talking about surviving in some sort of Mad Max scenario , much of our time would probably be spent on avoiding people, evading, and keeping our distance - not charging into CQB and MOUT fighting. From that perspective, the Garand is vastly superior, IMO, because of the better accuracy, stronger cartridge, and infinitely better sights. Hitting a man at 200-300 yards is not difficult at all with a Garand. In terms of long-term survival, the Garand is obviously much better suited for hunting as well, with a cartridge that can handle almost any game in North America.What say you? ETA: For this scenario, let's assume you have 10,000 rounds of ammo at your house. So if you need to bug out, then the only limit on ammo is how much you are willing/able to carry. From your perspective of trying to avoid as much as possible, you want the best tool for up close/unable to avoid. Which is the ak. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:08:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Because I am old and slow...Garand. Better sights, better sight radius, better effective range.
30-06 will kill anything in NA as well. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:09:00 PM EDT
[#36]
It depends on location IMHO.
Urban areas or areas with geography that limit the range of visual contact probably goes to the AK. Open areas or locations where game animals will be a lot bigger than a deer goes to Garand. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:15:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Ammo availability for each would be questionable. 7.62x39 has been readily available, but never has the availability of .223/5.56, and the vast majority of commercial.30-06 leadings will damage a Garand in extremely short order unless the Garand is modified with an adjustable gas plug. If you want to stick with a semi auto .30 cal platform, I’d stick with an AR-10 or a BAR if you want to run with a “hunting style” rifle.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:17:17 PM EDT
[#38]
The AR-15 would be my first choice. Choosing a M1 Garand seems like a bad idea, especially if you have a parts problem.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:18:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Hands down an AK for capacity, abundance of ammunition, magazines and parts.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:18:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Have both, but an AK is nearby right now as I type.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:19:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Both while I guess okay in some regards, still suck.
The possibility of finding 30-06 is overblown. There's far less of it in the places I frequent than the alternative. In both scenarios finding another complete firearm is better than finding parts to fix a broken one. A stock garand would at least make a decent club so I guess that. Or get both so sks
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:19:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Where I live the Garand could make more sense, but I'd rather have a scoped bolt action feather weight hunting rifle with good irons so I could top off the magazine and use the gun if my scope fails. To me, a magnum bolt sporter backed up by a light AR, PCC or even a shotgun makes sense.
If I had to pick one, I'd take an AK over an M1 I guess. Not for increased capacity so much as being able to switch magazines. Hell I would probably take a pump shotgun over a M1 if it was just me alone. I could take small game reliably with bird, then use buck and ball in a fight. Now if there were two or three of us, and we all had Garands, it might be ok. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:20:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love my garland but you can’t stand on a ridge and holler “wolverines” unless you got an AK in your hand don't be Aardvark, live free |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:20:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a bit of a myth that's been busted. The Garand will handle most commercial ammo just fine, especially in small quantities. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And most of that .30-06 here in the US will tear up a Garand's op rod quick. The Garand won't like anything other than M-2 spec loads. That's a bit of a myth that's been busted. The Garand will handle most commercial ammo just fine, especially in small quantities. Exactly. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:21:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Garand for sure.
America. Communism never. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:21:19 PM EDT
[#46]
I would go AK.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:22:55 PM EDT
[#47]
This is America damnit, M1 baby! Although I’d take my M4 clone lol
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:24:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Garand. 308 does a lot more. Plus if I need to go CQB i'd just duct tape a laser point to the front of it.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:24:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But, unlike an AK, the Garand will probably never break! The Battlefield Vegas thread exists, and most search engines should be able to find it. Depending on which particular AK manufacturer, 100,000 rounds before failure. Which is many lifetimes, in a Mad Max scenario. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:26:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The AK is also going to be a lot easier to deploy from a 911. Assuming the 911 is your bug out vehicle(which it should be) https://i.imgur.com/OnZot0R.jpg This is a strong argument in favor of the AK, I have to admit.
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