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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:26:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can't just shoot whatever 30.06 ammo you want in a Garand. Many hunting rounds have way more pressure than M2 ball ammo, which is what the Garand was designed for. Watched a guy refuse to listen to advice and shot some of the 150gr PNC ammo in his rifle. Blew it apart before he could get through a single enbloc. For that reason, AK for me. And I LOVE Garands. Exactly. Especially since OP specified “basic”, and not a Garand modified to shoot any 30.06 |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:27:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK. Compact and good enough for deer/elk and good for burglars. FPNI. What he said. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:28:10 PM EDT
[#3]
I live in ranch/farm country, you can find '06 at every mom and pop store, 7.62x39 not so much, and yes I have a schuster plug for my M1.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:28:45 PM EDT
[#4]
As much as I love the Garand - all yhat wood and steel just feels right; would take the AKM. (Prefer a milled Type 3 or an AKS-74 5.45). Stg-44 and intermediate cartridge rendered the M1 obsolete.
Detachable magazines, easier and quicker reloads, less parts, chrome-lined barrel, more ammo per given unit of weight, doesn’t eject the device that carries ammo after 8 rounds, can knock an E type target at 200 with it pretty easy... yeah. AKM. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:28:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get the feeling I might be the ONLY person to vote for the Garand.  Nope. #metoo 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:30:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SKS. Ability to carry more ammo than the garand. Higher capacity than the garand. More accurate than the AK in my experience. No mags to lose or carry like the AK. All around, evade and survival type situation, I would rather have the SKS. I came here to post this |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:31:09 PM EDT
[#7]
You're asking if I'm a freedom loving American or a dirty fucking commie.
What do you think? |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:33:41 PM EDT
[#8]
I love both. Plenty of experience with both.
AK is a better overall choice. Size, ammo availability, etc... I would not feel disadvantaged with an M-1, but side-by-side, I would grab the AKM. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:34:21 PM EDT
[#9]
I have never owned a Garand, although it's on my "buy one sometime" list. I do have two AKMs, an under folder and a fixed stock version.
I love the idea of a Garand but feel objectively the AK is a better choice. As you said, smaller & lighter with higher capacity, able to carry more rounds for the same weight penalty. Unless you anticipate having to shoot large game (brown / grizzly bears, moose, maybe elk) I think the 7.62x39 with modern U.S. hunting loads will take anything you will run across. So, AK, all day. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:35:08 PM EDT
[#10]
AKs are jammomatics. But you can always stomp the charging handle after removing the mag to clear them.
Prefer the 74s. Get an M1 and send it to Shuff's for the 308/ mag conversion. I'd be tempted to shorten it too. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:36:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. Especially since OP specified “basic”, and not a Garand modified to shoot any 30.06 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You can't just shoot whatever 30.06 ammo you want in a Garand. Many hunting rounds have way more pressure than M2 ball ammo, which is what the Garand was designed for. Watched a guy refuse to listen to advice and shot some of the 150gr PNC ammo in his rifle. Blew it apart before he could get through a single enbloc. For that reason, AK for me. And I LOVE Garands. Exactly. Especially since OP specified “basic”, and not a Garand modified to shoot any 30.06 You guys need to stop repeating this myth. Regular commercial 150 gr hunting load will not damage a Garand. Sure, there might be loads - especially really heavy bullets, that CAN damage a Garand, or at least cause excessive wear. ... also, I did also specify 10k rounds of ammo.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:36:28 PM EDT
[#12]
AK....It's not like there is a huge supply of M2 around...."Mah Op-Rod". I guess you could use a adjustable gas block and use fudd ammo but why?
 Now if you split the difference and went with a M1A that would make a lot more sense but that's a whole other can of worms and leads one into a "battle rife" discussion. Hell come to that a SKS with Tech Sights would likely be a better overall choice than a Garand. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:36:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I came here to post this Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: SKS. Ability to carry more ammo than the garand. Higher capacity than the garand. More accurate than the AK in my experience. No mags to lose or carry like the AK. All around, evade and survival type situation, I would rather have the SKS. I came here to post this Sorry, that's not one of the options. 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:37:18 PM EDT
[#14]
AK, but I would feel okay with the m1
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:38:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bored today? AR15 . com Stick with the AR15 platform you can keep it running longer. 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:43:42 PM EDT
[#16]
How about Stalin's Garand?
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:46:06 PM EDT
[#17]
I voted Garand. To me I like Power and Accuracy with the ability to find 30-06 ammo everywhere. Same thing if it is chambered in .308.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:46:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Oh and this ought to start the Boog by itself:
AK < Garand FAL < M1A 9mm < .45
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:47:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about Stalin's Garand? https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.34JMv8efMWnfSrbohaYlYgHaCj?w=299&h=103&c=7&o=5&pid=1.7 I'd take the AK over an SVT-40. They're a PITA to field strip and most bulk 7.62x54R ammo is corrosive. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:48:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Unless I were sniping individual badguys from a prepared fixed position I would probably be facing a mobile group of AR/AK armed badguys. During WW2 a guy armed with an M1 vs. a squad of MP40s is not a position I'd want to be.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:53:01 PM EDT
[#21]
From what I understand, the design of the garand was problematic and led to a lot of jams in less than ideal conditions, which is what shtf would be.
Aks seem to do just fine in adverse conditions. It would be a reliability issue. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:53:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless I were sniping individual badguys from a prepared fixed position I would probably be facing a mobile group of AR/AK armed badguys. During WW2 a guy armed with an M1 vs. a squad of MP40s is not a position I'd want to be. I'd take that if the squad with MP40s was 600 yards and closing. 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 1:59:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd take that if the squad with MP40s was 600 yards and closing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unless I were sniping individual badguys from a prepared fixed position I would probably be facing a mobile group of AR/AK armed badguys. During WW2 a guy armed with an M1 vs. a squad of MP40s is not a position I'd want to be. I'd take that if the squad with MP40s was 600 yards and closing. At 600 yards I don't think I would be able to tell what someone was armed with. But if the situation is such that any person is a danger I could understand. But at that far disappearing would be much easier than engaging with the hope to take them down. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:01:04 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm an AK fan, but don't especially like 7.62x39. The sights on the garand are superb. If I'm in a pack of folks, I'd go ak. If I'm roughing it solo, or just a couple travellers, garand. Try to keep my distance.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:06:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At 600 yards I don't think I would be able to tell what someone was armed with. But if the situation is such that any person is a danger I could understand. But at that far disappearing would be much easier than engaging with the hope to take them down. Use your binoculars to check them out. While evading would be easier and less dangerous, consider the following scenario: You are stuck at your retreat with your elderly parents/in-laws and they have health issues/aren't mobile. You are running recon while your SO is at the retreat. You spot a group of unidentified armed men heading straight for your retreat home, armed with PCCs or Sub guns. What do you do? |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:10:47 PM EDT
[#26]
I wouldn’t feel undergunned with a M1 if I absolutely had too. Then again my father has been an M1 collector his whole life so I’ve literally shot more of them than I can even contemplate.
Having said that the deciding factor is who is with you in a shtf situation like that. If I’m “bugging out” I’m bugging out with family, friends, and other “like minded individuals.” We already have a destination not to far away. There’s gonna be plenty of ARs and AKs among us. In that situation, an M1 if I had to chose, wouldnt restrict my abilities all that much. If you are “bugging out” alone,.... then yea that’s different. The M1s mag capacity alone, is gonna limit you. It’s all well and fine to try to evade and stay away from others. But you don’t plan for what you want to happen, you plan for the worst, and what could eventually happen. And that will be running into a group of guys that want your shit, and they all got ARs and AKs. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:18:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like ammo availability would be a big concern as well. Put my vote in this column - I think AK ammo would be ubiquitous relative to the availability of .30-06. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:22:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I understand, the design of the garand was problematic and led to a lot of jams in less than ideal conditions, which is what shtf would be. The Garand is actually an extremely reliable design. Yes, there is an opening in the receiver where debris CAN enter the action, but in practice, it doesn’t seem to be a problem. I’ve used/seen garands in very dirty conditions, and they generally work VERY reliably. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:25:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Is it that hard to easily hit a person with iron sights from an AK at 200-300 yards? I think I was hitting steel occasionally at 300 yards with the PSA AK pistol using "see dirt flying, adjust until you hit" method a few weeks ago. I'm not a good shot, and this was bench rested but I think with even a little practice it wouldn't be hard to hit a man-sized target from 300yds with a basic AK and iron sights.
Seems plenty accurate. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:29:50 PM EDT
[#30]
In a full on zombie apocalypse?
Ak47 > garand > akm |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:31:26 PM EDT
[#31]
I voted AK but it’s close and you would be fine with either.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:39:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And most of that .30-06 here in the US will tear up a Garand's op rod quick. The Garand won't like anything other than M-2 spec loads. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Maybe in Russia. Here in the US, you will find FAR more .30-'06 in the wild than 7.62x39. And most of that .30-06 here in the US will tear up a Garand's op rod quick. The Garand won't like anything other than M-2 spec loads. @ warpusher: There are adjustable gas plugs for a Garand that enable you to shoot commercial ammo. There are even ported-self-adjusting gas plugs nowadays that need no adjusting. Just install, and go shooting. Any commercial ammo you like. I know because I have one. http://www.garandgear.com/ported-gas-plug.html |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:41:00 PM EDT
[#33]
saw this thread and decided to go shoot 400yrd steel
took my 6,5grendel with a 1-4x burris my CMP service grade garand and my AK-74 clone the garand’s wonderful sights are made for this stuff crank it to the “4” and hit steel the AK was a challenge for my old eyes, even with a cheap TRS25 red dot took a bit to find my 400 elevation the 6.5G / burris was super easy edited with better pics   |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:41:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it that hard to easily hit a person with iron sights from an AK at 200-300 yards? I think I was hitting steel occasionally at 300 yards with the PSA AK pistol using "see dirt flying, adjust until you hit" method a few weeks ago. I'm not a good shot, and this was bench rested but I think with even a little practice it wouldn't be hard to hit a man-sized target from 300yds with a basic AK and iron sights. Seems plenty accurate. That man-sized target isn't going to be standing still waiting for you to adjust your rounds in. For suppressing fire, sure the AK would be better but then we get to why you need to use valuable ammo to suppress at 200-300 yards in a SHTF situation. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:42:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it that hard to easily hit a person with iron sights from an AK at 200-300 yards? I think I was hitting steel occasionally at 300 yards with the PSA AK pistol using "see dirt flying, adjust until you hit" method a few weeks ago. I'm not a good shot, and this was bench rested but I think with even a little practice it wouldn't be hard to hit a man-sized target from 300yds with a basic AK and iron sights. Seems plenty accurate. This is not directed at you personally, but lots of people THINK it’s a lot easier to hit something at range with short-radius WW1 style iron sights that it really is. Also, lots of people who don’t shoot at longer ranges regularly, completely underestimate how far away 300 yards is. The reality is that very few people shoot at 300 yards.I’m a pretty good rifle shot (have been shooting rifles for about 40 years, including in shooting clubs and in the army), and hitting a man-sided target with an AK with iron sights at 300 yards is NOT easy. I’m not saying it is impossible by any means, of course, and a good shooter with a Garand will be a good shooter with an AK - but the horrendous sights and the (often) inferior trigger, will make it much harder to hit a target at 300 yards with an AK. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:52:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ warpusher: There are adjustable gas plugs for a Garand that enable you to shoot commercial ammo. There are even ported-self-adjusting gas plugs nowadays that need no adjusting. Just install, and go shooting. Any commercial ammo you like. I know because I have one. http://www.garandgear.com/ported-gas-plug.html Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Maybe in Russia. Here in the US, you will find FAR more .30-'06 in the wild than 7.62x39. And most of that .30-06 here in the US will tear up a Garand's op rod quick. The Garand won't like anything other than M-2 spec loads. @ warpusher: There are adjustable gas plugs for a Garand that enable you to shoot commercial ammo. There are even ported-self-adjusting gas plugs nowadays that need no adjusting. Just install, and go shooting. Any commercial ammo you like. I know because I have one. http://www.garandgear.com/ported-gas-plug.html The OP specified a factory rifle...unmodified. Although, he is wrong about "nothing but M2" and probably the "most" part. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:54:16 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:59:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryThose are cool, and if one wanted a Garand as a survival rifle, that would definitely be a cool option. Some kind of shortened BM-59 would be awesome! 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:04:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are cool, and if one wanted a Garand as a survival rifle, that would definitely be a cool option. Some kind of shortened BM-59 would be awesome! Like this (JRA XM1E2)?  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:14:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like this (JRA XM1E2)? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/51323/xm1e2rifle-8-of-21-jpg_jpg-1377455.JPG I love that!! 
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:15:54 PM EDT
[#41]
If those were the only two choices, AK. More compact, detachable mags, will bring down a deer as well as people so no advantage for the Garand there.
If someone's far enough away that I need a 30.06 I'm going to quietly un-ass the AO. Plus...  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:16:29 PM EDT
[#42]
I voted for the Garand because..
1. I already have a couple. 2. I've been shooting them since 2008. 18" steel plates at 600 yards aren't that much of a problem. 3. I've gone a bunch of ammo. Most of it HXP still in cans. My reloads are even better. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can't just shoot whatever 30.06 ammo you want in a Garand. Many hunting rounds have way more pressure than M2 ball ammo, which is what the Garand was designed for. Watched a guy refuse to listen to advice and shot some of the 150gr PNC ammo in his rifle. Blew it apart before he could get through a single enbloc. For that reason, AK for me. And I LOVE Garands. How do they handle .458 Win mag conversions then? |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:28:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Decent AK - 30 rounds vs 8. Garands are awesome but at practical ranges the AK wins for all around rifle. That said, some AKs are shit, so my caveat is a quality AK.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:29:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20+ years ago, maybe. .30-06 is, in many ways, a dying/niche cartridge. A lot of people migrated to .308 long ago, and now people are moving on from .308. .30-06 hunting rifles are very slow sellers and have been for at least the last decade. Only Milsurps and old school hunters keep it alive. The other issue here is that .30-06 ammo retails for ~$20 a box. Other than the PPU Garand loads, nobody buys .30-06 in bulk. The house of a .30-06 owner might have a box and a half of Core-Lokt sitting in their garage. 7.62x39 has been growing in prevalence since the '90s. Guys were buying SKSs bundled with cases of cheap ammo left and right, and that ammo is still found for sale locally on a regular basis. The explosion in AK popularity after the AWB expired kept the party rolling. And a whole hell of a lot more 7.62x39 shooters buy in bulk... You should probably tell Federal this. Especially since it has been in the top 5 in centerfire rifle cartridge sale for decades. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:31:53 PM EDT
[#46]
As much as it saddens me to say...AK.
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:32:16 PM EDT
[#47]
AK
I'm not going to pretend I'd be shooting at somebody 600 yards away and I damn sure don't want to be fucking around with that big, low capacity, high recoiling, outdated bastard at anything relatively close where you're FAR more likely to get to bump into some baddy. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:33:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get the feeling I might be the ONLY person to vote for the Garand. I can hit a man sized target with my Garand out to 600y. 30-06 can kill any animal in North America with proper bullet placement. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:35:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Could I start out with an RPG-7?
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:36:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get the feeling I might be the ONLY person to vote for the Garand. If I bug out, it is in the 4wd assault vehicle so I can carry whatever ammo I want in that case I will take garand I wouldn't sneeze at an ak though |
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