User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:05:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The assumption in this scenario is that we start with TONS of ammo, so hopefully we would never even have to scrounge for any additional. Still, it's a valid point, and certainly the AK would be able to easily handle pretty much ANY ammo. ... but there's also a lot of myth and dis-information about bent-oprods and stuff like that. My impression (after reading a lot about it) is that most commercial hunting ammo will shoot fine in a Garand. You will probably get some excess wear and tear over time, possibly erosion of the gas port, but it would be VERY ODD for a commercial 150gr. load to damage a Garand, especially to "blow it apart"  . You need to read up on that some more. Start with the CMP Garand forum. But by all means go ahead and try it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:11:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can't just shoot whatever 30.06 ammo you want in a Garand. Many hunting rounds have way more pressure than M2 ball ammo, which is what the Garand was designed for. Watched a guy refuse to listen to advice and shot some of the 150gr PNC ammo in his rifle. Blew it apart before he could get through a single enbloc. For that reason, AK for me. And I LOVE Garands. bwahahaha...lol no |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:13:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need to read up on that some more. Start with the CMP Garand forum. But by all means go ahead and try it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The assumption in this scenario is that we start with TONS of ammo, so hopefully we would never even have to scrounge for any additional. Still, it's a valid point, and certainly the AK would be able to easily handle pretty much ANY ammo. ... but there's also a lot of myth and dis-information about bent-oprods and stuff like that. My impression (after reading a lot about it) is that most commercial hunting ammo will shoot fine in a Garand. You will probably get some excess wear and tear over time, possibly erosion of the gas port, but it would be VERY ODD for a commercial 150gr. load to damage a Garand, especially to "blow it apart" . You need to read up on that some more. Start with the CMP Garand forum. But by all means go ahead and try it. I have tried it, on numerous occasions. Most commercial ammo works fine in Garands. No “bent” or “destroyed” op rods, and no “blown up”guns. Maybe you are the one who needs to read up a little more, and not believe old wives tales from gun shows. Most of the “literature” on what a terrible and dangerous thing it is, are old and are all repeating the same old myth, without any data. More recent actual testing shows that most commercial loads are fine. As another example of the same kind of thinking, there are TONS of people who swear by the old trope that Garands MUST be lubricated with grease, which is completely incorrect. Garands function perfectly fine with oil, yet you will find lots and lots of people who dogmatically claim that terrible things might happen if you do not use grease. They can not cite ANY actual evidence of bad things happening if you do not, and can’t provide any logical explanation for why - but they are 100% certain that you MUST use grease, or something really bad will happen ... because they read that once. In reality, Garands are perfectly fine being lubricated with oil, and nothing terrible has ever happened as a result. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:13:53 PM EDT
[#4]
With a Garand there is very little cover only concealment.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:20:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Both!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:22:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a Garand there is very little cover only concealment. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:27:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No kidding. The big M1 barely rates on the scale of Milsurp Pain. Most of the .30+ caliber bolt-action carbines go from worse to much worse. The 8x56 Steyr M95 carbines and 8x50R Berthier carbines are especially bad. Mosin M44 is a treat too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:28:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mosin M44 is a treat too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No kidding. The big M1 barely rates on the scale of Milsurp Pain. Most of the .30+ caliber bolt-action carbines go from worse to much worse. The 8x56 Steyr M95 carbines and 8x50R Berthier carbines are especially bad. Mosin M44 is a treat too. Enfield Jungle Carbine is the worst, IMO. That “recoil pad” is a cruel prank. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:45:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Enfield Jungle Carbine is the worst, IMO. That “recoil pad” is a cruel prank. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No kidding. The big M1 barely rates on the scale of Milsurp Pain. Most of the .30+ caliber bolt-action carbines go from worse to much worse. The 8x56 Steyr M95 carbines and 8x50R Berthier carbines are especially bad. Mosin M44 is a treat too. Enfield Jungle Carbine is the worst, IMO. That “recoil pad” is a cruel prank. It's a recoil enhancer. I load 125 grainers with a mild charge to shoot mine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:48:55 PM EDT
[#10]
@DK-Prof,
thanks for making this post. Today was my day off, and I had fun playing with both.  My old CMP service grade beater is easier than the AK to clang 400 yard steel. despite what some of you posted, the M1 recoil is very mild, and it's quick to reload another 8 rounds of 30-06 goodness. I love the Garand. I like the AK Glad we have other options today. My 6.5G AR15 with a burris 1-4x spanks them both badly.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:52:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @DK-Prof, thanks for making this post. Today was my day off, and I had fun playing with both. My old CMP service grade beater is easier than the AK to clang 400 yard steel. despite what some of you posted, the M1 recoil is very mild, and it's quick to reload another 8 rounds of 30-06 goodness. I love the Garand. I like the AK Glad we have other options today. My 6.5G AR15 with a burris 1-4x spanks them both badly. https://i.imgur.com/lDTuTFo.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bACY0x2.jpg Thank you! ... and that was against an AK with an optic, and not just the iron sights! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 10:55:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure that has nothing to do with years of both Soviet bloc and western nations dumping free AKs on them like it was toys for tots. Fun fact: Most of the weapons in dumped in Afghanistan from 1989 to 1994 were from war stocks intended for WWIII in Europe, and were retrograded past the Urals to comply with CFE treaty requirements. Those few trainsets, mostly for Soviet Category C reserve roundout units fueled one of the largest wars of the 1990s and likely are still in some use. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:00:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a recoil enhancer. I load 125 grainers with a mild charge to shoot mine. I’m gonna have an interesting day when I get back to the range, won’t I? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:01:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m gonna have an interesting day when I get back to the range, won’t I? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/496238/D73D5F93-AB73-4520-8998-8ACF488602AA-1232241.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a recoil enhancer. I load 125 grainers with a mild charge to shoot mine. I’m gonna have an interesting day when I get back to the range, won’t I? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/496238/D73D5F93-AB73-4520-8998-8ACF488602AA-1232241.jpg I think you just might. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:07:49 PM EDT
[#15]
 M1 Garand to 500yds: Practical Accuracy  Chinese AK47 to 500yds: Practical Accuracy (Type 56 Assault Rifle) |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:12:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can't just shoot whatever 30.06 ammo you want in a Garand. Many hunting rounds have way more pressure than M2 ball ammo, which is what the Garand was designed for. Watched a guy refuse to listen to advice and shot some of the 150gr PNC ammo in his rifle. Blew it apart before he could get through a single enbloc. For that reason, AK for me. And I LOVE Garands. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:13:02 PM EDT
[#17]
I live in my bugout location I'm 64 and not going anywhere. I'll take the M1Garand, it's been turning cover into concealment for 80 years. And if a truck needs stopping, i have black tips for mine.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:20:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Enfield Jungle Carbine is the worst, IMO. That “recoil pad” is a cruel prank. My No. 5 rates "no fun" on my personal scale of Milsurp Pain... ...but this thing with Balle N surplus rates "not doing that again". 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:31:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK for me The rifle is lighter, the ammo is lighter, and its good enough to kill everything around here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:34:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Weight of a garand or even an M14 with a 20 round mag makes me say no. If I'm hiding and moving then AK just on weight and mag capacity alone.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:34:52 PM EDT
[#21]
America is big and sparsely populated if you are bugging out to the wilderness in teotwawki. This makes intermediate, high capacity platforms less necessary.
In and from metro to rural travel...AK Once you get to rural...Garand. When I lived in Phoenix my SHTF gun was an AK. When I moved to rural Az it switched to AR. Accuracy and range becomes most important in wide open spaces. Since that move my AR is my home defense gun. If I had to venture out in SHTF I’d bring a rifle chambered in a real rifle cartridge. ETA pick a different gun. I forgot about the m2 ball requirements making ammo availability suck for the Garand. You’re east of the Mississippi making an intermediate rifle more attractive. But AK is still...meh. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2020 11:49:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryI am honestly impressed (and surprised) with how good the AK was. Thanks for posting that. Really useful info.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 1:43:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can shoot any 30-06 ammo you find as long as you install a Schuster Gas Plug. Germane to this whole discussion:  The M1 Garand - Is Commercial Ammo Safe? No adjustable gas plug? Doable with modern hunting 30-06 but probably gonna run into issues in time. Given this gedankenexperiment specifies 10k of solid ammo for the gun, I wouldn’t let that deter me from a Garand, but it does appear to be a bad idea mid to long term to use just any 30-06 you run across in an unmodified Garand. Glad I learned this before I bought one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 8:46:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. She's a young lady who cooks Bimba's lunch. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fluffy, Is that Crabby? No. She's a young lady who cooks Bimba's lunch. I knew that answer because she's not holding a snow shovel |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 9:14:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryI haven't seen that movie in a long time...but didn't he also keep a holdout even after throwing down all of that?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 9:29:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germane to this whole discussion:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_F1riBth8No adjustable gas plug? Doable with modern hunting 30-06 but probably gonna run into issues in time. Given this gedankenexperiment specifies 10k of solid ammo for the gun, I wouldn't let that deter me from a Garand, but it does appear to be a bad idea mid to long term to use just any 30-06 you run across in an unmodified Garand. Glad I learned this before I bought one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You can shoot any 30-06 ammo you find as long as you install a Schuster Gas Plug. Germane to this whole discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_F1riBth8No adjustable gas plug? Doable with modern hunting 30-06 but probably gonna run into issues in time. Given this gedankenexperiment specifies 10k of solid ammo for the gun, I wouldn't let that deter me from a Garand, but it does appear to be a bad idea mid to long term to use just any 30-06 you run across in an unmodified Garand. Glad I learned this before I bought one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 11:36:32 AM EDT
[#27]
If its teotwaiki I can't see myself fighting battles against platoons of trained men.
The more likely scenario is me against a small group of bandits or of me hunting. I am a fat 66 with a bad heart , in other words , my time is short , give me my garrand and I will smile as I get a couple of good shots off |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 12:22:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Enfield Jungle Carbine is the worst, IMO. That “recoil pad” is a cruel prank. I love my Jungle Carbine for carrying around in the woods, though my shoulder doesn’t forgive me after shooting a few rounds through it |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 12:38:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love my Jungle Carbine for carrying around in the woods, though my shoulder doesn’t forgive me after shooting a few rounds through it Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Enfield Jungle Carbine is the worst, IMO. That “recoil pad” is a cruel prank. I love my Jungle Carbine for carrying around in the woods, though my shoulder doesn’t forgive me after shooting a few rounds through it I have a mkiii and a 1914. When ammo got scarce for .303, I got set up to make cast loads for mine. I load them to about the same as a cast 180 grn 3030. It's easy to shoot, and still a decent woods round. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 12:55:26 PM EDT
[#30]
I am just here to type TEOTWAWKI So I can read it out loud. It’s fascinating for me to say as a word. I enjoy it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 1:21:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Garand for me. I made that choice years ago and stashed an M1 with plenty of rounds in regular ball, handloaded 180 SP, and handloaded 180 Nosler Part (all loaded on clips). A small reloading outfit rounded out the package. (A Nylon 66 and plenty of .22LR kept the Garand company.)
I only use grease on my M1s and I only feed them LC or my handloads. There are strong views on all sides of what can be used. If my view is wrong (bullet weight, powder burn rate, port pressure, etc. as well as using grease) no harm will come to my M1; if the different views are wrong it MAY damage their M1. I was doing some research yesterday and came across this in American Rifleman, February 1998, page 28, about M1 AMMUNITION: "Any ammunition loaded to Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute (SAAMI) standards should be safe to use in a properly maintained M1 Garand rifle." A couple of issues ago an article in the Garand Collectors Association magazine warned about using some types of ammunition in the M1; soon after that there was an issue with a long article claiming it was OK to use almost any factory ammo. I stay unconfused and do what I KNOW works for me and my M1s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 3:00:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having shot a Garand in my time, the open action is far more annoying in slinging water and dirt on you, than jamming the weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Garand is actually an extremely reliable design. Yes, there is an opening in the receiver where debris CAN enter the action, but in practice, it doesn't seem to be a problem. I've used/seen garands in very dirty conditions, and they generally work VERY reliably. Having shot a Garand in my time, the open action is far more annoying in slinging water and dirt on you, than jamming the weapon. Ahhhh the memories.....there's nothing like a little water/sight black/Lubriplate slurry on the glasses to make shooting more interesting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/21/2020 3:11:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Story time.
Sold the old homestead and moved most of my cows to new place. One calf that had eluded my from giving shots never got better at being around people. If you took one step toward him, he was gone. Never got shots, never got cut; stayed a bull. You could get fairly close to him when feeding with a tractor. So, time comes and have to do something with him. Decide to shoot and eat him. A 1200# bull. Out of all my guns, had to pick something with punch, quick reload and quick sights. So I thought, my 1941, low six digit SA would be perfect. I don't remember the ammo, but I think it was Rem CoreLokt. Drive tractor around, get in about 50 yards, aim for between the eyes (didn't want to waste any meat), hit about 3 inches below that in the lower face and, luckily, stuns him enough not to move, adjust a little higher and bam, drt. So M1>AR>AK Animal carnage inside: Click To View Spoiler |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File