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Posted: 9/7/2022 2:18:33 AM EDT
[#1]
This thread is stupid. It's comparing apples to oranges.
However I will say this... It is more common for a Marine to go to the army over a soldier going to the Marine Corps. That is a rare occurance. I wonder why.... Oh... wait... Marine Corps standards fucking straight up suck ass and it's a cult of blood thirsty motivated retards. I did my time in the Corps and hated every second of it. Pretty sure if I joined the Army I'd have a nice retirement in a few years. That's really the difference. But I know 82nd dudes are hard charging badasses. Regular army... they are less than subpar IMO. Lumping the 1st MARDIV in ... well... IDK. I was in the 1st MARDIV ... its so spread out with units all over there would never be an invasion consisting of an entire Marine division maybe in WWII but not now. What OP really needs to ask is on the battalion level not division. Infantry battalions in the 1st MARDIV would probably kick more ass than their counterparts in the 82nd... parachuting aside. Who the fuck parachutes into a combat zone anymore anyways. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 6:30:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is stupid. It's comparing apples to oranges. However I will say this... It is more common for a Marine to go to the army over a soldier going to the Marine Corps. That is a rare occurance. I wonder why.... Oh... wait... Marine Corps standards fucking straight up suck ass and it's a cult of blood thirsty motivated retards... Might have something to do with the inter service transfer, basic training requirements. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 7:03:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was in the 1st MARDIV ... its so spread out with units all over there would never be an invasion consisting of an entire Marine division maybe in WWII but not now. Well it happened in 2003. And I think they had two divisions assembled in 1991. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 8:16:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well it happened in 2003. And I think they had two divisions assembled in 1991. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was in the 1st MARDIV ... its so spread out with units all over there would never be an invasion consisting of an entire Marine division maybe in WWII but not now. Well it happened in 2003. And I think they had two divisions assembled in 1991. 1st and 2d MarDiv were augmented with elements of the 3D MarDiv when 3d MarDiv was reduced in size. This was done by designs to allow the UDP program to increase the size of the rump 3D MarDiv without home stationing units in Japan at the same time keeping almost full divisional strength units on the east and west coast, East Coast oriented on Europe and Africa and West Coast oriented on Pacific and Middle East. However for OIF1, 1st MaDiv did have to take on 2d MarDiv units, arty engineers, tanks etc. For Desert Storm, I MEFs GCE consisted of elements of all four divisions to form a two fighting over straightened divisions reinforced by an army brigade as an exploration force GCE with a BDE afloat to act as a fixing force. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:12:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We thought it was just our bird at first. I was dropping on Pegasus DZ, a sugar cane field with power lines. The runways at the airport were covered with obstacles and would have been a shit show. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I almost got my mustard stain for Uphold Democracy back in 1994. Jimmy Carter needs to rot in hell for treason for interfering in a military operation. Idiot!  I've got an infantry buddy who refers to Jimmy as "the bastard that cost me a CIB". He was on the USS Ranger waiting to air assault in. Another buddy was with the 82nd, one of the units that was in the air and turned around. Said he saw pictures of the drop zones afterwards and was glad they didn't jump. Yes that traitor warned them we were coming so they started prepping the drop zones with all sorts of nasty surprises. I was in the air and we had just finished our in-flight rig and JMPI. Then the plane took a hard turn and they announced we were turning back. Lots and lots of pissed off Paratroopers for weeks/months afterwards. We thought it was just our bird at first. I was dropping on Pegasus DZ, a sugar cane field with power lines. The runways at the airport were covered with obstacles and would have been a shit show. You talking about Haiti? That would have been a total shit show. We were told you would either land in the cane fields, the airport or the harbor. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:20:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might have something to do with the inter service transfer, basic training requirements. The Army changes its mind continuously about prior service basic training requirements and does sometimes require former Marines, and even prior Army to attend basic again. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:23:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Everybody is “elite” these days.
I’m surprised the OP didn’t know that. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:33:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Army changes its mind continuously about prior service basic training requirements and does sometimes require former Marines, and even prior Army to attend basic again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Might have something to do with the inter service transfer, basic training requirements. The Army changes its mind continuously about prior service basic training requirements and does sometimes require former Marines, and even prior Army to attend basic again. The Marine Corps does not. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:42:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know very little about the military but I know a guy who was in the 82nd back in the 80s. He talks about it damn near everyday. Get him around somebody else who was in the army and they go nuts with stories. Funny thing is though, every once in a while somebody will ask how long he was in the army. His answer, 3 years. Truth is I think this is the shortest duration of anybody I've ever known being in the military. It kind of makes me wonder how elite they could be. I'd imagine "elite" to be a group of hardened experienced warriors. Sure, a lot could be accomplished in 3 years I suppose, but "elite"? You'd be wrong. From start of Basic to finishing Q course, it takes about 2 years(depending on MOS and training schedule) to train an SF soldier. They not elite? Takes under a year to get to Ranger Batt. Elite is a subjective word. I've trained with many NATO forces and most of them were garbage, even when compared to our leg units. Your friend may or may not have been good at his job. 3 years TIS is irrelevant. There are a lot of guys who serve 20 who are pieces of shit. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:45:47 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:56:38 AM EDT
[#11]
I was a grunt buck sergeant in the 82nd. Served from '73-'77 in Co C 2/505.
I practiced law for over thirty years with a Marine (they hate to be called former marines) law partner. And live near MCLB Albany, so I've had a number of marine friends. Inter-service rivalry was my norm. One thing I noticed. A Marines' loyalty is to the Corps. An Army soldier's loyalty is to their units. Many marines will tell you they're a marine but won't even mention their unit until a fellow marine strikes up a conversation. When someone asks me if I'm a veteran, I rarely mention the Army. I tell them that I served in the 82nd. If I run into a fellow paratrooper, we just refer to it as "the division" or just "division". Just an observation. Now carry on the purse swinging. 
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:41:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Marine Corps does not. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/116375/8B860B11-202B-4CFE-A390-CB9A2463E976_jpe-2517437.JPG Corpsman! lol |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:43:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was a grunt buck sergeant in the 82nd. Served from '73-'77 in Co C 2/505. I practiced law for over thirty years with a Marine (they hate to be called former marines) law partner. And live near MCLB Albany, so I've had a number of marine friends. Inter-service rivalry was my norm. One thing I noticed. A Marines' loyalty is to the Corps. An Army soldier's loyalty is to their units. Many marines will tell you they're a marine but won't even mention their unit until a fellow marine strikes up a conversation. When someone asks me if I'm a veteran, I rarely mention the Army. I tell them that I served in the 82nd. If I run into a fellow paratrooper, we just refer to it as "the division" or just "division". Just an observation. Now carry on the purse swinging. That's an accurate observation. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:50:29 AM EDT
[#14]
6 pages and we haven't established which team is being commanded by Ditka?
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:51:38 AM EDT
[#15]
82nd Airborne has something the marines do not.
Cavalry Scouts. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 1:08:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never understood the Marine patch thing. How can you wear a Marine combat patch when Marines really don't have unit patches... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I recall the attached combat engineers for the Urgent Fury jump wore scrolls. But I can see how GWOT went a little sideways with FW-SSI but the new reg sounds like only ones original parent unit is authorized regardless of anything - Army wife so no more USMC patches for Arny reservists in transportation battalions rolling with Marines and 1st Cav patches for 81st inf bde or 1st ID patches for Pennsylvania Army NG I've never understood the Marine patch thing. How can you wear a Marine combat patch when Marines really don't have unit patches... We do. Only authorized to wear on coveralls and flight suits. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 1:22:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m surprised no one’s posted this yet. “We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?” [Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff; during the assault on Grenada, 1983] Thanks to an Air Force fighter pilot, colonel Boyd |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 7:21:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Marine Corps does not. Yeah, generally true. For some reason I was reading your statement backwards. However, there are “Marines” that didn’t go through any USMC entry level training. I’ve met at least one gunny and of course, famously, a Commandant. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 7:58:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 82nd Airborne has something the marines do not. Cavalry Scouts. For which I’ll take the opportunity to say fuck you to Courtney Settle - RLTW  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When did that become a thing? It’s been a while, but in Iraq our SF group told our augmentees to wear the patch they came with, and I thought big Army decided the same. What the AR and NG does when they get home is probably another thing entirely. AR 670-1 21-18 covers it. Multiple deployments with different units can get you multiple patches. You can only earn 1 per deployment. Personally, I dislike when people wear the SF sleeve insignia unless they are actually in Group. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:24:20 PM EDT
[#21]
87th Arfcom Division
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:49:14 PM EDT
[#22]
If it doesn't have an assessment and selection then it's not "elite"
If you can't get dropped for standards it's not "elite" |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:58:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Former is the key word. He isn’t in Battalion, he doesn’t get shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The SOF units really clamped down on it. There was a time when borrowed personnel wore scrolls, SF, USASOC, etc. combat patches after being deployed with them. That was totally clamped down on after a while. Like to the point a Ranger qualified, former Ranger Bn guy from another SOF unit could literally go on target and get in TICs with a strike force from a Ranger Bn, And be directly told- this does not mean you get to wear a Ranger Bn scroll as a combat patch. Former is the key word. He isn’t in Battalion, he doesn’t get shit. The whole justification given was that they didn’t want people who had not qualified to be in the unit shouldn’t get the combat patch. Which seems reasonable. Until you consider guys making slides in the JOC that never left Bagram or Balad get “combat” scrolls. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 10:59:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First auto correct typed Army wife? No idea how that got in my post. But the one I met on post had a scroll in the late 80s. I remember a drill sergeant in Georgia with a 2nd ID patch in the 80s - turned out he was one of the Op Paul Bunyon guys. I remember the old scroll. My SQD LDR was there Urgent Fury https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/82D29EEB-B09A-4363-A576-81A3AC447765_jpe-2517194.JPG Is that Beckwith? |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:13:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR 670-1 21-18 covers it. Multiple deployments with different units can get you multiple patches. You can only earn 1 per deployment. Personally, I dislike when people wear the SF sleeve insignia unless they are actually in Group. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When did that become a thing? It's been a while, but in Iraq our SF group told our augmentees to wear the patch they came with, and I thought big Army decided the same. What the AR and NG does when they get home is probably another thing entirely. AR 670-1 21-18 covers it. Multiple deployments with different units can get you multiple patches. You can only earn 1 per deployment. Personally, I dislike when people wear the SF sleeve insignia unless they are actually in Group. What's funny is some Army units earned Marine combat patches and can wear them on Army uniforms but Marines don't do the combat patch thing. |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:37:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that Beckwith? https://iacmc.forumotion.com/t2784-operation-urgent-fury-1983-grenada-2nd-batt-ranger-reenactment |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 11:49:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Why does anyone think either is elite?
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Posted: 9/8/2022 8:57:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the largest sized USMC unit that jumps? A bunch of foreign countries have division but not the airlift to actually deploy them in airborne operations. China is investing in airlift capabilities for their jump status units. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Marines have a division of them? They don't? How quaint. What is the largest sized USMC unit that jumps? A bunch of foreign countries have division but not the airlift to actually deploy them in airborne operations. China is investing in airlift capabilities for their jump status units. Not really the point of the Marine Corps, it’s an apples to oranges type thing. That’s like asking what’s the largest group of 82nd airborne guys who specialize in amphibious landings. It’s not their specialty. For what it’s worth, I was around all sort of units when I was overseas and everyone did their jobs. Some maybe a little more efficient/lean than others, but the job got done regardless of unit. The whole elite unit thing, in my humble opinion, is more a discussion of history than current ability. Both of the units mentioned by the OP are among our nations most highly decorated and historically significant combat units. Both played instrumental roles in all the major wars of the last 100 years. Both deserve to be recognized as “elite” for their sacrifices and I would be honored to fight alongside the men, past or present, from either. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 9:06:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really the point of the Marine Corps, it’s an apples to oranges type thing. That’s like asking what’s the largest group of 82nd airborne guys who specialize in amphibious landings. It’s not their specialty. For what it’s worth, I was around all sort of units when I was overseas and everyone did their jobs. Some maybe a little more efficient/lean than others, but the job got done regardless of unit. The whole elite unit thing, in my humble opinion, is more a discussion of history than current ability. Both of the units mentioned by the OP are among our nations most highly decorated and historically significant combat units. Both played instrumental roles in all the major wars of the last 100 years. Both deserve to be recognized as “elite” for their sacrifices and I would be honored to fight alongside the men, past or present, from either. I understood that. Was asking out of curiosity what current USNC disposition was. Obviously it wouldn’t be at a divisional level. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 9:08:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really the point of the Marine Corps, it’s an apples to oranges type thing. That’s like asking what’s the largest group of 82nd airborne guys who specialize in amphibious landings. It’s not their specialty. For what it’s worth, I was around all sort of units when I was overseas and everyone did their jobs. Some maybe a little more efficient/lean than others, but the job got done regardless of unit. The whole elite unit thing, in my humble opinion, is more a discussion of history than current ability. Both of the units mentioned by the OP are among our nations most highly decorated and historically significant combat units. Both played instrumental roles in all the major wars of the last 100 years. Both deserve to be recognized as “elite” for their sacrifices and I would be honored to fight alongside the men, past or present, from either. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Marines have a division of them? They don't? How quaint. What is the largest sized USMC unit that jumps? A bunch of foreign countries have division but not the airlift to actually deploy them in airborne operations. China is investing in airlift capabilities for their jump status units. Not really the point of the Marine Corps, it’s an apples to oranges type thing. That’s like asking what’s the largest group of 82nd airborne guys who specialize in amphibious landings. It’s not their specialty. For what it’s worth, I was around all sort of units when I was overseas and everyone did their jobs. Some maybe a little more efficient/lean than others, but the job got done regardless of unit. The whole elite unit thing, in my humble opinion, is more a discussion of history than current ability. Both of the units mentioned by the OP are among our nations most highly decorated and historically significant combat units. Both played instrumental roles in all the major wars of the last 100 years. Both deserve to be recognized as “elite” for their sacrifices and I would be honored to fight alongside the men, past or present, from either. There are some nuances between the various units in regard to organic firepower, degree of operational mobility and end strength but the reality is post Goldwaters-Nichols ground units are basically broken down into two basic types: heavy and not heavy and are mostly interchangeable for planning purpose other than their mechanism for forcibly entry. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 12:22:45 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 9/8/2022 1:23:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These threads.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/women_wild_swinging_gif-2509593.gif  More like...  |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 11:37:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might have something to do with the inter service transfer, basic training requirements. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This thread is stupid. It's comparing apples to oranges. However I will say this... It is more common for a Marine to go to the army over a soldier going to the Marine Corps. That is a rare occurance. I wonder why.... Oh... wait... Marine Corps standards fucking straight up suck ass and it's a cult of blood thirsty motivated retards... Might have something to do with the inter service transfer, basic training requirements. I know about a dozen guys that have done it. In each case it was about promotion time, and the USMCs unwillingness to truly hammer out its SOF as its own entity. Sure, I’m a little dated. Army 1985 to 2013. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 11:39:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'd be wrong. From start of Basic to finishing Q course, it takes about 2 years(depending on MOS and training schedule) to train an SF soldier. They not elite? Takes under a year to get to Ranger Batt. Elite is a subjective word. I've trained with many NATO forces and most of them were garbage, even when compared to our leg units. Your friend may or may not have been good at his job. 3 years TIS is irrelevant. There are a lot of guys who serve 20 who are pieces of shit. Time is not a measure of “eliteness”. Some Intel translator may spend a couple of years in basic, ait, language school, etc. The pipeline for both has similar hoops and obstacles. One is truncated. The other is a little more drawn out. |
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Posted: 9/8/2022 11:41:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is that Beckwith? https://iacmc.forumotion.com/t2784-operation-urgent-fury-1983-grenada-2nd-batt-ranger-reenactment Just looks like him I guess. Worked with him from 90-94. He was in 2nd during the mount saint helens eruption and Grenada. |
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Posted: 9/9/2022 10:23:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 82nd Airborne has something the marines do not. Cavalry Scouts. There are gays in the Marines too. |
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