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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:10:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither is elite. 1st Marine Division are legs 82nd are legs that waste a good chunk of their training time on something they'll never use in combat. Both are just grunt line units. Fight me  |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:24:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which one has brand new kit and which has hand me downs. That’s a myth at best. Anyone who believes that doesn’t have any idea what gear Army and Marine units are carrying. I was both 0311 and 11B. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:27:28 PM EDT
[#3]
I’m surprised no one’s posted this yet.
“We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?” [Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff; during the assault on Grenada, 1983] |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:31:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which one has brand new kit and which has hand me downs. 
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:40:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The SOF units really clamped down on it. There was a time when borrowed personnel wore scrolls, SF, USASOC, etc. combat patches after being deployed with them. That was totally clamped down on after a while. Like to the point a Ranger qualified, former Ranger Bn guy from another SOF unit could literally go on target and get in TICs with a strike force from a Ranger Bn, And be directly told- this does not mean you get to wear a Ranger Bn scroll as a combat patch. That seems like it's going a long ways to make a point, but I can understand wanting to protect their image. I got loaned out to a SOCOM unit for an operation in Afghanistan. It was one of those Murphy's law moments, they had three qualified guys, needed two for the operation. One guy had a family emergency and gets on a plane headed home, 24 hours later one of the others steps on a rock on the way to the latrine at 0200 and rolls his ankle and tears something. So, they borrowed me. Never would have occurred to me want their patch. But I can see some pogues trying that.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:51:06 PM EDT
[#6]
The 82d is a light force, while each of the Marine Divisions is a medium force with more organic firepower. The only area where the 82d brings more organic fire power to bear is its rotary aviation component, the Marine Divisions as structured don’t have organic air.
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:51:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That seems like it's going a long ways to make a point, but I can understand wanting to protect their image. I got loaned out to a SOCOM unit for an operation in Afghanistan. It was one of those Murphy's law moments, they had three qualified guys, needed two for the operation. One guy had a family emergency and gets on a plane headed home, 24 hours later one of the others steps on a rock on the way to the latrine at 0200 and rolls his ankle and tears something. So, they borrowed me. Never would have occurred to me want their patch. But I can see some pogues trying that.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/507874/WebAttachedToSpecialForcesFront_large_jp-2516751.JPG I recall the attached combat engineers for the Urgent Fury jump wore scrolls. But I can see how GWOT went a little sideways with FW-SSI but the new reg sounds like only ones original parent unit is authorized regardless of anything - Army wife so no more USMC patches for Arny reservists in transportation battalions rolling with Marines and 1st Cav patches for 81st inf bde or 1st ID patches for Pennsylvania Army NG |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:54:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FreefallE7 was on a chalk I think? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I almost got my mustard stain for Uphold Democracy back in 1994. Jimmy Carter needs to rot in hell for treason for interfering in a military operation. Idiot!  FreefallE7 was on a chalk I think? Yes he was. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 5:59:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I recall the attached combat engineers for the Urgent Fury jump wore scrolls. But I can see how GWOT went a little sideways with FW-SSI but the new reg sounds like only ones original parent unit is authorized regardless of anything - Army wife so no more USMC patches for Arny reservists in transportation battalions rolling with Marines and 1st Cav patches for 81st inf bde or 1st ID patches for Pennsylvania Army NG I've never understood the Marine patch thing. How can you wear a Marine combat patch when Marines really don't have unit patches... |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:02:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Umm, you drop the 82nd in and they run around doing their thing for a few days then what? They can only be self sufficient for a short period of time. you bring a marine division and you can spread hate and discontent for years. So yeah, ill take a division of marines every time. Plus one good SAM site can make the 82nd disappear. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:06:51 PM EDT
[#11]
A divisional amphibious landing has not been a thing for decades, for the last 30 years the mark on the wall has been a 2 MEB landing force, which currently is not supportable with the lift the Navy can provide
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:09:53 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm gonna go with the gaydee2nd on this one. They can put brigade sized elements anywhere in the world in a matter of days, and as far as conventional forces go they have the best shit.
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:12:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A divisional amphibious landing has not been a thing for decades, for the last 30 years the mark on the wall has been a 2 MEB landing force, which currently is not supportable with the lift the Navy can provide I haven’t kept up on Air Force airlift capacity but I know US Army watercraft is in short supply. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:20:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never understood the Marine patch thing. How can you wear a Marine combat patch when Marines really don't have unit patches... One day! Maybe when the Pacific island hoping comes back.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:28:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Umm, you drop the 82nd in and they run around doing their thing for a few days then what? They can only be self sufficient for a short period of time. you bring a marine division and you can spread hate and discontent for years. So yeah, ill take a division of marines every time. Plus one good SAM site can make the 82nd disappear. Why would you want them to be there for years. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:32:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a buddy that was a Marine Paratrooper that jumped out of the back of OV-10 broncos in 1st Angilco. What now? I was an Army paratrooper, and got carted around the canal zone in an Army landing craft. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 6:48:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got an infantry buddy who refers to Jimmy as "the bastard that cost me a CIB". He was on the USS Ranger waiting to air assault in. Another buddy was with the 82nd, one of the units that was in the air and turned around. Said he saw pictures of the drop zones afterwards and was glad they didn't jump. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I almost got my mustard stain for Uphold Democracy back in 1994. Jimmy Carter needs to rot in hell for treason for interfering in a military operation. Idiot! I've got an infantry buddy who refers to Jimmy as "the bastard that cost me a CIB". He was on the USS Ranger waiting to air assault in. Another buddy was with the 82nd, one of the units that was in the air and turned around. Said he saw pictures of the drop zones afterwards and was glad they didn't jump. Yes that traitor warned them we were coming so they started prepping the drop zones with all sorts of nasty surprises. I was in the air and we had just finished our in-flight rig and JMPI. Then the plane took a hard turn and they announced we were turning back. Lots and lots of pissed off Paratroopers for weeks/months afterwards. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:00:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Since I speak normal English and can communicate with Marines more easily, it goes without saying that I’d rather work with my brothers than the other services. I will say however, that the Soldiers I have and still work with that did time with the 82nd Airborne seemed to take more pride in their work and come off as quite professional compared to the rest of Big Army which is an off and on thing depending on the unit.
BLUF: Somewhat similar overall motivation level and pride in their units and service from both. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:06:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had quite a few prior service USMC at A/1/19th Gp including my team sergeant MSG McMahon. I did bump into a former soldier who branch transferred to active USMC. I rarely see Army going Marine but I saw a lot of former USMC and Army go USAF CCT including an E-6 from one of my previous units. Took him quite awhile to get approval to go from ARNG to active USAF. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Having been both enlisted army, and a Marine, and a paratrooper...this man speaks the truth. It really isn't a fair comparison though, because ANGLICO and Reconnaissance Marines are more selectively bred group of animals than big Marine Corps. I'd put up ANGLICO or Recon as above (insert whatever other non-SOCOM, and many which are SOCOM) Army units any day. And I say that with great love for both services. We had quite a few prior service USMC at A/1/19th Gp including my team sergeant MSG McMahon. I did bump into a former soldier who branch transferred to active USMC. I rarely see Army going Marine but I saw a lot of former USMC and Army go USAF CCT including an E-6 from one of my previous units. Took him quite awhile to get approval to go from ARNG to active USAF. If the MSG from 19th Group is still in, we may have crossed paths a couple of times. Former Force Recon Marine on the west coast if it’s the same person. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:11:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the MSG from 19th Group is still in, we may have crossed paths a couple of times. Former Force Recon Marine on the west coast if it’s the same person. Oregon/Washington state |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:30:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oregon/Washington state Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the MSG from 19th Group is still in, we may have crossed paths a couple of times. Former Force Recon Marine on the west coast if it’s the same person. Oregon/Washington state Ok different person. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:31:57 PM EDT
[#22]
I don’t know about 1stMarDiv but when I was 2ndMarDiv we were looking forward to going to Bragg and training with 82nd. Thought they were supposed to be shit hot. We ended up being unimpressed.
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:34:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The trans is the marine Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These threads.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/women_wild_swinging_gif-2509593.gif  The trans is the marine 
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:34:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Operation Just Cause? Operation Just (Be)Cause. When your Panamanian dealer pisses off the old CIA head. great trainup for DS/DS. 7th ID. Lightfighters! |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:39:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your buddy was a Marine that was trained by the Army so... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a buddy that was a Marine Paratrooper that jumped out of the back of OV-10 broncos in 1st Angilco. What now? Your buddy was a Marine that was trained by the Army so... Airborne school?  |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:39:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes that traitor warned them we were coming so they started prepping the drop zones with all sorts of nasty surprises. I was in the air and we had just finished our in-flight rig and JMPI. Then the plane took a hard turn and they announced we were turning back. Lots and lots of pissed off Paratroopers for weeks/months afterwards. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I almost got my mustard stain for Uphold Democracy back in 1994. Jimmy Carter needs to rot in hell for treason for interfering in a military operation. Idiot! I've got an infantry buddy who refers to Jimmy as "the bastard that cost me a CIB". He was on the USS Ranger waiting to air assault in. Another buddy was with the 82nd, one of the units that was in the air and turned around. Said he saw pictures of the drop zones afterwards and was glad they didn't jump. Yes that traitor warned them we were coming so they started prepping the drop zones with all sorts of nasty surprises. I was in the air and we had just finished our in-flight rig and JMPI. Then the plane took a hard turn and they announced we were turning back. Lots and lots of pissed off Paratroopers for weeks/months afterwards. We thought it was just our bird at first. I was dropping on Pegasus DZ, a sugar cane field with power lines. The runways at the airport were covered with obstacles and would have been a shit show. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:39:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok different person. Quite a few prior service Marines but I think I’ve only like encountered one former SEAL and he was down in San Diego as a regular infantry company commander with CA ARNG and I’ve never seen prior USAF in Army combat arms units but I’ve seen prior Air Force in support units. Never see Coast Guard other than in a coast Guard but one attended our rappel master course I’m Hawaii. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:41:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: one sub can end the Marines trip as well Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Umm, you drop the 82nd in and they run around doing their thing for a few days then what? They can only be self sufficient for a short period of time. you bring a marine division and you can spread hate and discontent for years. So yeah, ill take a division of marines every time. Plus one good SAM site can make the 82nd disappear. Without logistics and support? Both of youse have absolutely NO fucking idea of how Americans fight a war. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:41:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryYou laugh now but one of the guys in my company from jump school was from Ghana! |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:41:51 PM EDT
[#30]
They're both "elite" Infantry, but falling out of planes gives the 82nd a slight edge. During dining ins, the dress uniforms of the Marines are by far superior...it's a wash
ROCK6 |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:42:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have 5 jumps from the Bronco and even a ghey certificate authorizing be to wear USMC wings. Obviously I don't and never would. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An Ov10 parachute qual would be sweet! I have 5 jumps from the Bronco and even a ghey certificate authorizing be to wear USMC wings. Obviously I don't and never would. Where and when did you snag those jumps? Marine OV-10s? |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:43:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without logistics and support? Both of youse have absolutely NO fucking idea of how Americans fight a war. Well I know how we fight when Biden is CiC. 
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Posted: 9/6/2022 7:45:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without logistics and support? Both of youse have absolutely NO fucking idea of how Americans fight a war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Umm, you drop the 82nd in and they run around doing their thing for a few days then what? They can only be self sufficient for a short period of time. you bring a marine division and you can spread hate and discontent for years. So yeah, ill take a division of marines every time. Plus one good SAM site can make the 82nd disappear. Without logistics and support? Both of youse have absolutely NO fucking idea of how Americans fight a war. Tag because this could get entertaining. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 8:54:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m surprised no one’s posted this yet. “We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?” [Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff; during the assault on Grenada, 1983] LOL that is hilarious!  But mean...Now that I'm old and fat and there's so much more time behind me than in front of me, I just see Americans boys and girls who volunteered to hit them yellow footprints (does the Army do that?) and deserve all my love and support. But keep up the shit flinging, it's funny as fuck! |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 9:02:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Give a Marine battalion or a battalion of the 82nd all the enablers that are provided to the Rangers during one of their deployments…
Which would perform better? THAT would be the test. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 9:13:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We thought it was just our bird at first. I was dropping on Pegasus DZ, a sugar cane field with power lines. The runways at the airport were covered with obstacles and would have been a shit show. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I almost got my mustard stain for Uphold Democracy back in 1994. Jimmy Carter needs to rot in hell for treason for interfering in a military operation. Idiot! I've got an infantry buddy who refers to Jimmy as "the bastard that cost me a CIB". He was on the USS Ranger waiting to air assault in. Another buddy was with the 82nd, one of the units that was in the air and turned around. Said he saw pictures of the drop zones afterwards and was glad they didn't jump. Yes that traitor warned them we were coming so they started prepping the drop zones with all sorts of nasty surprises. I was in the air and we had just finished our in-flight rig and JMPI. Then the plane took a hard turn and they announced we were turning back. Lots and lots of pissed off Paratroopers for weeks/months afterwards. We thought it was just our bird at first. I was dropping on Pegasus DZ, a sugar cane field with power lines. The runways at the airport were covered with obstacles and would have been a shit show. I was supposed to jump into the airport. It would have been a really painful jump. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 9:23:03 PM EDT
[#37]
The 82nd Marine Division (Abn)
Oh? You've never heard of them? Exactly. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 9:53:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I recall the attached combat engineers for the Urgent Fury jump wore scrolls. But I can see how GWOT went a little sideways with FW-SSI but the new reg sounds like only ones original parent unit is authorized regardless of anything - Army wife so no more USMC patches for Arny reservists in transportation battalions rolling with Marines and 1st Cav patches for 81st inf bde or 1st ID patches for Pennsylvania Army NG I was a touch too young for Grenada. Around ‘94 or so I was in my last days as an NCO before becoming an O. I was instructing a course and one of the 10th Group 18Cs was sporting a mustard stain and 82nd combat patch. I gave him some shit about a “combat” jump on a drop zone already seized by Rangers. He corrected me. He was one of the engineers sent to Savannah from bragg and jumped in with 1/75. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 10:03:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without logistics and support? Both of youse have absolutely NO fucking idea of how Americans fight a war. Tagged for when the realization dawns on who you just called out.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 10:07:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Give a Marine battalion or a battalion of the 82nd all the enablers that are provided to the Rangers during one of their deployments… Which would perform better? THAT would be the test. And NCO, SNCO, & officer leadership ranks being equal between the two. Ok, that makes it too one sided…never mind. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 10:54:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The SOF units really clamped down on it. There was a time when borrowed personnel wore scrolls, SF, USASOC, etc. combat patches after being deployed with them. That was totally clamped down on after a while. Like to the point a Ranger qualified, former Ranger Bn guy from another SOF unit could literally go on target and get in TICs with a strike force from a Ranger Bn, And be directly told- this does not mean you get to wear a Ranger Bn scroll as a combat patch. Former is the key word. He isn’t in Battalion, he doesn’t get shit. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 10:58:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're both "elite" Infantry, but falling out of planes gives the 82nd a slight edge. During dining ins, the dress uniforms of the Marines are by far superior...it's a wash ROCK6 True statement. Marines have amazing dress uniforms |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 11:18:28 PM EDT
[#43]
I know very little about the military but I know a guy who was in the 82nd back in the 80s. He talks about it damn near everyday. Get him around somebody else who was in the army and they go nuts with stories.
Funny thing is though, every once in a while somebody will ask how long he was in the army. His answer, 3 years. Truth is I think this is the shortest duration of anybody I've ever known being in the military. It kind of makes me wonder how elite they could be. I'd imagine "elite" to be a group of hardened experienced warriors. Sure, a lot could be accomplished in 3 years I suppose, but "elite"? |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 11:20:16 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know very little about the military but I know a guy who was in the 82nd back in the 80s. He talks about it damn near everyday. Get him around somebody else who was in the army and they go nuts with stories. Funny thing is though, every once in a while somebody will ask how long he was in the army. His answer, 3 years. Truth is I think this is the shortest duration of anybody I've ever known being in the military. It kind of makes me wonder how elite they could be. I'd imagine "elite" to be a group of hardened experienced warriors. Sure, a lot could be accomplished in 3 years I suppose, but "elite"? How long were you in the military? Is it shorter than 3 years? |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 11:28:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know very little about the military but I know a guy who was in the 82nd back in the 80s. He talks about it damn near everyday. Get him around somebody else who was in the army and they go nuts with stories. Funny thing is though, every once in a while somebody will ask how long he was in the army. His answer, 3 years. Truth is I think this is the shortest duration of anybody I've ever known being in the military. It kind of makes me wonder how elite they could be. I'd imagine "elite" to be a group of hardened experienced warriors. Sure, a lot could be accomplished in 3 years I suppose, but "elite"? I don't want to be "that guy" but the most obnoxious former Marines bar none are the guys who only did one enlistment. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 11:30:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 82d has Cav Scouts…. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Cav Scouts. 82d has Cav Scouts…. This is true, I was one of them. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 11:31:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was supposed to jump into the airport. It would have been a really painful jump. I don't recall where my buddy was supposed to go in but he said the pictures they saw the whole area was covered in rocks, holes dug everywhere, abandoned vehicles and appliances scattered about. It was nasty. They figured half of them would have gotten injured on the jump. |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 11:39:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was a touch too young for Grenada. Around ‘94 or so I was in my last days as an NCO before becoming an O. I was instructing a course and one of the 10th Group 18Cs was sporting a mustard stain and 82nd combat patch. I gave him some shit about a “combat” jump on a drop zone already seized by Rangers. He corrected me. He was one of the engineers sent to Savannah from bragg and jumped in with 1/75. First auto correct typed Army wife? No idea how that got in my post. But the one I met on post had a scroll in the late 80s. I remember a drill sergeant in Georgia with a 2nd ID patch in the 80s - turned out he was one of the Op Paul Bunyon guys. I remember the old scroll. My SQD LDR was there Urgent Fury  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/6/2022 11:41:18 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 9/7/2022 1:52:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't recall where my buddy was supposed to go in but he said the pictures they saw the whole area was covered in rocks, holes dug everywhere, abandoned vehicles and appliances scattered about. It was nasty. They figured half of them would have gotten injured on the jump. Sounds line any DZ after a heavy equipment drop. Heavy equipment and appliances first, personnel second. |
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