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Posted: 3/14/2022 11:50:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC the B-1 uses a 50 inch Titanium pin for the pivot, you know where most of the world's titanium comes from, right? McMaster Carr? |
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Posted: 3/14/2022 11:51:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Also...I am dissapointed in the lack of connards on the current Attack turbine aircraft The mUdHeN Would look much better with cannards They famously did make at least one F-15 with canards. It turned out to be one of the many cases where the juice was not worth the squeeze. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/F15_ACTIVE.jpg/1280px-F15_ACTIVE.jpg McDonnell Douglas F-15 STOL/MTD 
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Posted: 3/14/2022 11:53:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fundamental reason is to increase the critical Mach number of the wing when swept to reduce drag. Everything else is a compromise to accommodate the mechanism. The F-15 SMTD was strictly a research airplane and would have never been proposed for production. The canards are from a legacy F-18, so maybe it's really a modified F-18 test vehicle! nice I think the use of canards makes the ultimate F/A jet |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 12:00:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the same principle as folding side mirrors on a pickup, just makes it so you can park them closer together.  My truck goes faster when I fold the mirrors back. |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 9:45:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My truck goes faster when I fold the mirrors back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's the same principle as folding side mirrors on a pickup, just makes it so you can park them closer together. My truck goes faster when I fold the mirrors back. Have you tried adding speed holes? |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 10:32:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Some threads on ARFCOM are so cool.
"Hay guys, why this be like it do?" "Well... maybe this? Not sure. In for an SME" "I'm an SME and i literally designed this thing or worked on the team. It works 'cause reasons." "I'm an SME and I used the thing... heads up cool story incoming." |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 10:44:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On defense projects (such as fighters), the contractor needs to build in a bunch of complexity to charge more money, so that the investors can buy boats and islands and stuff. Back in the old days, that complexity was built into the mechanical design. In the 21st century, it's easier to build it into the software. |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 10:54:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wings straight, good takeoff and landing performance. Wings swept? Going fast and looking cool. Also can be handy for storage on a ship. The move towards lifting body fuselages, blending the aspects of wings and the rest of the aircraft made such things obsolete. Variable geometry also has an annoying habit of creating very expensive to maintain aircraft. Also the center of lift moves backward at supersonic speeds, "mach tuck" that tends to pitch the nose down, so that has to be compensated by pumping fuel into ballast tanks, changing the sweep of variable wings, or manipulation of control surfaces. |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 10:56:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My two cents on this topic. I have 1000 hours flying the F/EF-111. You have to remember the time period (Cold War) and the mission for the aircraft (Long Range Interdiction and Nuclear Strike). Also remember the engine technology wasn't as advanced as today. The TF30 was the first after burning turbofan and had it's share of issues. As each model of engine came out thrust was increased from 10,000Mil/16,000AB to 20,000Mil/25,000AB. The sweep wing designed allowed an increased bomb load for the thrust available at the time and then the wing swept aft to 72.5 Degrees allowed for a Delta wing configuration. This allowed for Mach 2.5+ speeds. The plane could not turn for shit but it would go incredibly fast in a straight line. I have personally seen Indicated Airspeeds (IAS) faster than 1100 KIAS and Mach above 1.85+. Getting the wings inside the Mach cone generated by the nose by sweeping them back really reduces drag - but as you pointed out, there are compromises. |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:00:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Back then, high speed was considered the end-all, be-all. For an attacker, you got in and out fast enough that the bad guys couldn't find you and get fighters over there. For the F-14, high speed let it launch and intercept missile carrying bombers far enough out that they couldn't launch at the carrier before being intercepted. The wing that allowed such high speed was very poor for takeoff/landing operations (especially when operating from a carrier), so the variable sweep wing was used to allow the aircraft to operate safely at speeds which were practical for takeoff and landing.
The proliferation and improvements in radar systems, surface to air missiles, and rapid effective communications among an integrated air defense system largely negated the advantage of high speed, and avoiding detection (low altitude and, now, low observability/stealth) has replaced speed as the larger factor in survival. Mike |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:01:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Swept wing goes back to the Messerschmidt Me M262. Helps manage shockwave compression buildup approaching mach 1. Straight wing has higher lift, more drag. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Messerschmitt_Me_262_Schwable.jpg https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_feature/public/thumbnails/image/f4_p4_red_planedrop.jpg The 262 wings were not swept for aerodynamic reasons. They screwed up the center of gravity and had to sweep the wings to move the weight of the engines rearward. Similar thing happened on the Short Sunderland flying boat. 
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:07:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: all the new stuff don't have no sweep wing. F-22 F35 mUdHeN F-18, F-16 FIGHTING FALCONE! Does it have to do with Fly By wire, better control computers and getter wing design because we got dem puters now with the fancy softwar? It was a neat idea that proved TOTALLY not worth it. To say they were maintenance whores is an understatement. They were unbelievably expensive to maintain, I don't know how we keep the B1 around @midcap |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:07:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also the center of lift moves backward at supersonic speeds, "mach tuck" that tends to pitch the nose down, so that has to be compensated by pumping fuel into ballast tanks, changing the sweep of variable wings, or manipulation of control surfaces. I've seen first hand how dangerous an out of trim aircraft can be. 
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:14:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quite a bit comes from Florida, actually. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IIRC the B-1 uses a 50 inch Titanium pin for the pivot, you know where most of the world's titanium comes from, right? Quite a bit comes from Florida, actually. He said "titanium", not "platinum from stolen catalytic converters" ....
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:18:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My truck goes faster when I fold the mirrors back. If you go fast enough, they'll fold back all by themselves. |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:21:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen first hand how dangerous an out of trim aircraft can be. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Also the center of lift moves backward at supersonic speeds, "mach tuck" that tends to pitch the nose down, so that has to be compensated by pumping fuel into ballast tanks, changing the sweep of variable wings, or manipulation of control surfaces. I've seen first hand how dangerous an out of trim aircraft can be. Galloping Ghost disaster? 
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:26:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Galloping Ghost disaster? [url] Front row seat. A friend of mine was even closer. He got splashed with fuel.
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Posted: 3/15/2022 11:48:12 AM EDT
[#18]
It was thought to be a good idea until someone installed the "sweep" switch backwards.
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Posted: 3/15/2022 1:14:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was thought to be a good idea until someone installed the "sweep" switch backwards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Grumman-X29-InFlight.jpg/800px-Grumman-X29-InFlight.jpg Love the X-29A in the Ace Combat game world, it's the cheapest super maneuverable fighter you can get. 
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Posted: 3/15/2022 2:13:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Front row seat. A friend of mine was even closer. He got splashed with fuel.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Galloping Ghost disaster? [url] Front row seat. A friend of mine was even closer. He got splashed with fuel.I'm sorry you had to see that, man .... |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 2:25:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sorry you had to see that, man .... Occupational hazard. As bad as it was for me I know it was worse for the first responders and medical personnel. I was walking around like Kenny here for a couple days afterwards.  Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels | People Feet | Guy Richie |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 2:33:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was thought to be a good idea until someone installed the "sweep" switch backwards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Grumman-X29-InFlight.jpg/800px-Grumman-X29-InFlight.jpg That things FCC was making corrections every 10th of a second to prevent the wings from "catching an edge" so to speak. Think they decided the design wasn't worth it. Disadvantages out weighed the advantages. The f16 with its fly by wire, FCCs and relaxed aerodynamic profile do the trick. The F-16 is the first production fighter aircraft intentionally designed to be slightly aerodynamically unstable, also known as relaxed static stability (RSS), to improve maneuverability. This one time, at band camp, I decided to build a model rocket with its fins forward swept because of that plane. Everyone said it wouldnt fly. I proved them wrong for about 30ft. It flew straight up then immediately stopped in place and did flips till it ran out of fuel. It was fuckin spectacular! |
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