I was just thinking about this fallacy.  It is being used by both sides.  If the dog is or isn't X, then it's 'not a true pit'.

However, there are pits and then there are pits.  The term pit gets used for all sorts of breeds and mixes that have a general molosser look, but there are some structural elements of the body that give good clues to if it is a 'true scotsman' or not.  There are also temperament tests that give good clues as well

Had one of those mixed with Doberman. Had to beat it unconscious just to transport it to get put down.

But it did attack several men my ex girlfriend at the time brought home so he served his purpose.

neither pits nor dogos walked off of Noah's ark.  Nor did they spring fully formed from Zeus's head like Athena.  They were made.  They share similar ancestors, and various pit types were also bred into the predecessors of the dogs that eventually bore the name Dogo de Argentino.

I've never been to an actual purposeful pit dog fight.  Have no desire to.

Also as fights are so rare, even dogs that sport records it's hard to judge what they won against....or even if they won against supposed winners, what those winners won against.

But one source is historical record back from when fighting was more common.  Thing is as mentioned before the breed could have changed or become more watered down.  So historical record is one. Current results help some.  But there's also current performance in other sports.  You know what dogs win the weight pulling contests developed by sled-dog guys to show off how strong their sled dogs were?  Pits.  Pound for pound pits are head and shoulders above others.

Of course by pure weight, it's the st bernards and the mastiffs who pull the largest weight, but that really isn't a fair comparison.

Speaking of which.

Historic records show  a 30 lb pit that could whip every other 30 lb pit would frequently fail vs an average pit of 40 lbs.  Of course as this bloodsport was even more fueled by love of gambling than love of blood, it was pretty popular to put a very well known winning pit vs an unknown 10 lbs heavier and see who would win.  It was also common to put a pit against a mutt 2x or more it's weight and see the outcome.  The fact that it was bet on with great fervor should tell you that the outcome was absolutely in question.  This should tell you two other things.  #1 pits don't magically win vs other dogs #2 pits are hell of fighters if weight is important when equal dogs mean and yet they can take down nonpits with 2x or even more their weight.

nope

That's a very informative post. Thanks.

that's some sort of sled dog in the picture, not a wolf.

My GSD has a bigger red rocket than your pitbull.

That isn't a lurcher.  A lurcher is a sight hound x terrier or sight hound x herding breed that is used for poaching especially in those places where a full blood sighthound weren't allowed to be owned by the commoners.

I've seen pits attack larger aggressive dogs twice in public.  One was a large muscular mutt, and the other a purebred GSD.  The pits had their ass kicked both times.

This is the salient point that many of us try to convey in PitBull discussions.

Genetics and breeding are HUGE factors in dogs. My contention is that breed has more to do with behavior, temperament and character traits than looks do. The look or outer appearance give us clues about what genetic material may inside the dog, but looks along cannot tell the entire story.

People create breeds for certain purposes. A lot of trial, error and heartbreak goes into creating a breed with specific behavior traits. Once established, those traits ebb and flow through the "breed" based on the expertise (or lack thereof) from the breeder.

Random or uneducated breeding is a crapshoot. Mixing breeds is an even bigger crapshoot. With some mixes, the result is not all that important; with many domestic breeds, mixing is certainly not dangerous. Mixing Pit Fighter genetics with whatever can absolutely be dangerous.

Earl_Basset is correct- The PitBull 'breed' or type of dog should have stayed a niche breed relegated to the fighting culture. The current "Pitbull" breed contains tons of dogs who are not real fighters but are potentially dangerous for a variety of (genetic) reasons.

No, they aren't.  They are guardians, like you said.  I would actually pity a pit that came at my wife.

Second thought, no.  I wouldn't pity anything that came at my wife that my Boerboel destroyed.

There are no pits in South Africa guarding farms.  There are, though, a lot of very bad things in South Africa.

I don't even want to consider dog fighting, but to say that a pit could beat any other dog is just ridiculous.

All the guardian/protection dogs are in a completely different weight class.  They have fur and loose skin around the neck for a reason.  They have the size and power to over come threats quickly, it's not a fucking game to them, or their owners.

A pits "drive", and "never Quit" traits would be it's downfall.

Most all of the good farm protection dogs would let the pit whimper away if it stopped being a threat.  But it probably wouldn't survive their first defense.

Totally different classes of dogs.