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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:41:11 PM EDT
[#1]
If it was my ass on the line I'd go with a F15.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:41:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Based on some of the GD experts that live in the basement the Sopwith Camel is the answer. The big jet can not slow down enough to get a hit.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:43:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: F18 is technically limited to 7.5G's the 15 and 16 can pull 9 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My understanding is that f15s turn the slowest of the 3, I think in a dog fight (turning) it'd be pretty close between the f16 and f18, but I think the f16 is faster accelerating. So, in a dog fight I'd go with f16 first, f18 2nd, f15 third. This is not the same as air superiority where I'd go f15 then f16 then f18. F18 is technically limited to 7.5G's the 15 and 16 can pull 9 I saw a documentary where the F18 pulled 10Gs no prob. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:45:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Well next to the Rafale the F/A-18E is the sexiest aircraft ever devised... much less operational.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:45:22 PM EDT
[#5]
If you are using guns, the Eagle has almost twice the ammo capacity of the Falcon.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:46:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Its kind of amazing to me that the most gayest thread in the history of ARF has an F-15 in the question.
@mudEagle @Mach I'm not going to lie. the whole room is spinning because this is so gay. Its like two E-2 NFOs decided "lets make the most gay thing, ever." Its like the Top 10 Gay Broadway Musicals decided to have a Manhattan Project to make Weapons Grade Gay for a strike into Mecca. Its like the AIDS Quilt decided to fuck South Beach to make a super gay thing. Its like a Air Battle Manager decided to make the Tsar Bomb of Gay. And won. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:47:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Imma say F-18 with electronics jamming equipment?
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:47:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: F18 is technically limited to 7.5G's the 15 and 16 can pull 9 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My understanding is that f15s turn the slowest of the 3, I think in a dog fight (turning) it'd be pretty close between the f16 and f18, but I think the f16 is faster accelerating. So, in a dog fight I'd go with f16 first, f18 2nd, f15 third. This is not the same as air superiority where I'd go f15 then f16 then f18. F18 is technically limited to 7.5G's the 15 and 16 can pull 9 Wow I would have thought the carrier plane would have been the toughest of the three. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:48:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Imagine 50 Marines stuck in a LSD for eternity and imagine the gay they figure out.
Then its the OP of this thread. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:50:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just when I really start to think this place is becoming a lost cause a real SME posts something like that and keeps me around. For anyone interested in this exact scenario look up Growling Sidewinder on YouTube. Yes, it's a simulator with civilians flying but he has a ton of videos dogfighting different stuff. The F-16 kills just about everything in a rate fight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I heard my name being called The F16 and F18 are multirole combat aircraft and very capable, and the pilots need to be proficient in everything they do, not just air to air. However theF15 is optimized for air to air and that is all the pilot does. In a BVR environment I think the F15 has the edge both in experience of the pilot and capability of the jet. But it does hinge on pilot capability and can go either way. Adding in the complexity of large scale ops in a hostile environment I think the Eagle has a clear advantage. In a training configuration which is what we mostly do, the F16 can turn up it's own asshole and in a close in fight in clean configuration the F16 is a clearly superior turning machine. The F18 clearly has better maneuverability very slow speed, less than 200 knots, but again in a real fight if you are below 200 knots you are fucked if there is more than 1 threat. However, nobody hits the merge real world with a single missile on the rails and nobody willing throws out the anchor to fight below 200 knots, because in a near peer battle, we are out numbered and a sitting duck with limited ordinance and / or slow speed. In a combat configuration with a full load of missiles except for the ones employed on the way to the merge, I think the F15 can turn tighter that both the F16 and F18, and accelerate faster with a combat load The Eagle is big, but because it is big with big motors, it can do more G and sustain airspeed better than the F16 and F18 with a bunch of missiles hanging out in the air. But I am going back many years, things may have changed and I have never fought either jet with a combat load. Being optimized for air to air has an advantage in a real multi aircraft engagement but the outcome squarely rests with the pilot. Great stuff! Just when I really start to think this place is becoming a lost cause a real SME posts something like that and keeps me around. For anyone interested in this exact scenario look up Growling Sidewinder on YouTube. Yes, it's a simulator with civilians flying but he has a ton of videos dogfighting different stuff. The F-16 kills just about everything in a rate fight. Exactly! |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:50:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are using guns, the Eagle has almost twice the ammo capacity of the Falcon. I don't think that's correct. If my Google fu is working the F-15 has 960 rounds while the 16 has 830. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:51:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow I would have thought the carrier plane would have been the toughest of the three. Imagine BrokeBack Mountain. Then imagine two dudes making the ultimate Soufflé. Then imagine a souffle SO GOOD you'd suck a massive dick for it. Not just suck, but really do a do a great job. Like really into it, so everyone remembers. That's how gay this is. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:51:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine 50 Marines stuck in a LSD for eternity and imagine the gay they figure out. Then its the OP of this thread. Hot lesbian gay or guy gay, cause it matters ? |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:52:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hot lesbian gay or guy gay, cause it matters ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Imagine 50 Marines stuck in a LSD for eternity and imagine the gay they figure out. Then its the OP of this thread. Hot lesbian gay or guy gay, cause it matters ? This thread delivers that much gay. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:53:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its kind of amazing to me that the most gayest thread in the history of ARF has an F-15 in the question. @mudEagle @Mach I'm not going to lie. the whole room is spinning because this is so gay. Its like two E-2 NFOs decided "lets make the most gay thing, ever." Its like the Top 10 Gay Broadway Musicals decided to have a Manhattan Project to make Weapons Grade Gay for a strike into Mecca. Its like the AIDS Quilt decided to fuck South Beach to make a super gay thing. Its like a Air Battle Manager decided to make the Tsar Bomb of Gay. And won. This could actually be your funniest post ever. ETA as I continue reading and am laughing my ass off I am convinced that @whiskersthecat has hacked screechjets account! |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:53:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh yeah...that goes against everything we learned between Korea and NAM. I korea we had a kill ratio of 13-1 and then in Nam it fell to 3:1 because our dog fighting skills lacked. In Korea most of our pilots had combat experience in WWII. That was a gigantic Plus. Can't say that about our Vietnam pilots. Some thought dogfighting was obsolete. They were proved wrong for two reasons, 1. Our short-range missiles were shit, and, 2. No one bothered to tell the enemy. We had to relearn a lot of lessons. No one had long-range missiles in either war. Again a lot has changed but we din remember our lessons. We still train our pilots for such events but the idea is to take the enemy out before you have to engage in a dogfight. If you can't, then plan B goes into effect. Be ruthless. If we ever get into space combat I don't see dogfighting as a viable tactic at least with present technology. In space, everything is a waltz, not Salsa. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:55:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread delivers that much gay. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Imagine 50 Marines stuck in a LSD for eternity and imagine the gay they figure out. Then its the OP of this thread. Hot lesbian gay or guy gay, cause it matters ? This thread delivers that much gay. 
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:58:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that's correct. If my Google fu is working the F-15 has 960 rounds while the 16 has 830. Falcon has 511 rounds |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:01:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This could actually be your funniest post ever. ETA as I continue reading and am laughing my ass off I am convinced that @whiskersthecat has hacked screechjets account! Its amazingly gay. Its like an antique shop decided "I'm not gay enough....I'm going to make something EVEN MORE GAY!" Then, all gay dudes were like "Man, I don't want to be responsible for this, I've got the Kennedy Center to schedule and the Tony's are coming up" and a bunch of gay guys are are like FUCK YOU AIDS quilt! We got gay to do! and the regular guy guys are like "I've got gay stuff and rent to do dude, I'm out!" And yet, "people are like 'MORE GAY' and say "F-15 vs. F-18 vs. F-16!" and some rando says "people who still can't do a stabilize approach into JFK?" and the F-15 guys travel to Amarillo looking for more weapons grade grade. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:02:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on definition of dog fight. Close in with guns it’s probably the 16. Simple air to air using missiles as soon as in range…Eagle Yeah, it’s not as simple as “ which is better” Generally speaking, I’d say if the eagle has any distance at all its speed and radar would win If by some chance the 16 got close enough for visual and a real turn and burn fur ball, anything could happen This is assuming two pilots who are perfect equals. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:03:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its kind of amazing to me that the most gayest thread in the history of ARF has an F-15 in the question. @mudEagle @Mach I'm not going to lie. the whole room is spinning because this is so gay. Its like two E-2 NFOs decided "lets make the most gay thing, ever." Its like the Top 10 Gay Broadway Musicals decided to have a Manhattan Project to make Weapons Grade Gay for a strike into Mecca. Its like the AIDS Quilt decided to fuck South Beach to make a super gay thing. Its like a Air Battle Manager decided to make the Tsar Bomb of Gay. And won. So where are your pi Charts and graphs? McNamara is waiting. This was obviously a fun question and not for the self-absorbed jocks. The A-team fighters were left out to make it more fun. Opinions are welcome, just to have fun. Begone with the thin-skin BS. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:03:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, it’s not as simple as “ which is better” Generally speaking, I’d say if the eagle has any distance at all its speed and radar would win If by some chance the 16 got close enough for visual and a real turn and burn fur ball, anything could happen This is assuming two pilots who are perfect equals. As in "totally GAY." And that's cool. Totally. And still fucking up an approach. But totally we are all really friends. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:05:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Today is all radar.
EX trumps 16 with AESA both trump the E/F WVR and a high aspect merge at mid altitude? I think it really depends on the driver. My experience is based on fixing the damn things and DCS. LOL |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:05:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So where are your pi Charts and graphs? McNamara is waiting. This was obviously a fun question and not for the self-absorbed jocks. The A-team fighters were left out to make it more fun. Opinions are welcome, just to have fun. Begone with the thin-skin BS. Let's imagine the National Gay Pilot Association. Then imagine a bunch of dudes show up and are like "gay pilots in Palm Springs? This is so Het! This is like some mall in Ontario!" Then decide "I"ve become Gay, Destroyer of Het!" |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:08:09 PM EDT
[#25]
It's thread like this where I miss CMjohnson coming up in here and giving us his authoritative answer to every fighter question.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:08:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Is it gayer than this?
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:08:59 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:10:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What creates (or enforces) that limitation on the F-18? And are we talking about the old F/A-18C? Or the F/A-18E Super Hornet? I believe the flight computer limits the aircraft. And it's for the Superbug |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:10:51 PM EDT
[#29]
The F-16 dies in beautiful fission cloud.
Natives everywhere talk about the pretty cloud in the sky. Canadians die. Win. Win. Win. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:17:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that's correct. If my Google fu is working the F-15 has 960 rounds while the 16 has 830. 16 511rnds |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:24:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its kind of amazing to me that the most gayest thread in the history of ARF has an F-15 in the question. @mudEagle @Mach I'm not going to lie. the whole room is spinning because this is so gay. Its like two E-2 NFOs decided "lets make the most gay thing, ever." Its like the Top 10 Gay Broadway Musicals decided to have a Manhattan Project to make Weapons Grade Gay for a strike into Mecca. Its like the AIDS Quilt decided to fuck South Beach to make a super gay thing. Its like a Air Battle Manager decided to make the Tsar Bomb of Gay. And won. It's (contraction of it is) like you are yammering to hear yourself yammer. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:25:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw a documentary where the F18 pulled 10Gs no prob. I know you’re kidding but a new Superhornet pulled 10.5 and never flew again. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:26:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow I would have thought the carrier plane would have been the toughest of the three. Landing gear and hook are. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:26:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's (contraction of it is) like you are yammering to hear yourself yammer. You know, I don't pontificate for paragraphs on S&M and legal stuff. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:26:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know you’re kidding but a new Superhornet pulled 10.5 and never flew again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I saw a documentary where the F18 pulled 10Gs no prob. I know you’re kidding but a new Superhornet pulled 10.5 and never flew again. Was that a safety precaution or was there observable damage? |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:27:22 PM EDT
[#36]
It’s really the pilot, it’s that close.
Start with a simple question. Best 1 circle fighter vs best 2 circle fighter. Answer 1 is the F18 and 2 is the F16 (I believe the rates vs Eagle are better but someone can chime in) Edit, also what’s the configuration |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:27:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know you’re kidding but a new Superhornet pulled 10.5 and never flew again. Not going to lie, if I see some F-18 guy I'm thinking "prep my liver and its a two man approach." And that's OK. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:27:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @mach What is the highest you ever flew in a F15? What was the view like? 55,000 feet. The curvature of the earth was unmistakable and the upper sky was darker blue. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:27:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was that a safety precaution or was there observable damage? The frame was bent |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:29:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Also, assuming everyone has 9X and helmet, who cares, everyone dies
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:29:46 PM EDT
[#41]
With missiles? F-15
Guns only? F-16 |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:29:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s really the pilot, it’s that close. Start with a simple question. Best 1 circle fighter vs best 2 circle fighter. Answer 1 is the F18 and 2 is the F16 (I believe the rates vs Eagle are better but someone can chime in) This is SO super gay. I'm not saying "FlyNavy75 is gay." I'm just saying if FlyNavy75 and his spouse (not that there is anything wrong with that!) said "hey, mind if we invite your wife to go thrifting at some some small town while you're out of town?" I'd be worried. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:32:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about 3x F101 Voodoos against a single F16 using cannons? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/116375/df-st-82-08170_jpg-2852520.JPG  Japanese 3 football stars take on 100 kids playing match. 2019 |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:32:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which one is in comms with the AWACS aircraft? |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:33:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are in a dogfight, you probably screwed up. The idea is to shoot them down before you get that close. Where is your wingman? Is he out of long-range missiles too? If you did screw up, I would hope your training is way superior to that of your opponent regardless of what fighter you are flying. If I was going to be in a dogfight I want the A Team: F-22, F-35, or F-15 EX. In this day and age, the B Team is not the best plan. Lawyers, the threat, and the mission dictate if you go to the merge or not and what you do when you get there. Sure we would always like to kill everybody BVR and the Eagle certainly has that capability, but counter measures, mission requirements and the fucking lawyers dictate if you can kill people BVR or not and what requirements have to be met to do it. It isn't a given. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:34:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, assuming everyone has 9X and helmet, who cares, everyone dies Yep You can’t out rate an X. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:34:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the gayest question asked since "what this the best brunch on South Beach." The clear answer is naked boobies. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:34:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lawyers, the threat, and the mission dictate if you go to the merge or not and what you do when you get there. Sure we would always like to kill everybody BVR and the Eagle certainly has that capability, but counter measures, mission requirements and the fucking lawyers dictate if you can kill people BVR or not and what requirements have to be met to do it. It isn't a given. And EA. People always seem to forget about dirty air. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:35:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is SO super gay. I'm not saying "FlyNavy75 is gay." I'm just saying if FlyNavy75 and his spouse (not that there is anything wrong with that!) said "hey, mind if we invite your wife to go thrifting at some some small town while you're out of town?" I'd be worried. Hey now my spouse is OEM female |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:36:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Ground pounders in need of definitions. What is merge and what is EA?
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