Hello brother!!  I'm here to save your soul from eternal damnation and shepherd you into our loving flock!!

It's all a shame jonny. God really, really, really wants to save you, because He really, really wants to save everyone, but alas the grace He's giving to you doesn't seem to be getting you over the hump. It's God's will to save you and everyone else, but His will seemly only counts as much as your will in this situation, and let's face it you're just not cooperating here...come on man, try harder. Even the faith as small as a mustard seed will do. Criley is trying hard, I think he's trying hard, to get you to believe. He shouldn't feel bad though if it doesn't happen, Jesus the greatest preacher ever, couldn't talk a lot of people into His kingdom either. It was His will to save everyone also, but His will just can't override your will in these delicate negotiations. God has done everything He can to help you. TRY HARDER!!!

When people are glorified and go to heaven, will they be able to sin anymore, will they be able to change their mind (will) and reject God again. If not, will they be puppets and robots because they can't exercise their free will to hate God again. Because if you are now confirmed in love for God and neighbor you're obviously a puppet...that's all you can do is love God. Seems, if your will is free you should be able to change your mind there as well as here. Saved one week, lost the next. and on and on. You might be able to get saved and lost thousands of times. Maybe if you are confirmed in heaven to love God for eternity, and can't exercise your free will like here on earth, maybe free will isn't absolutely necessary to be human, maybe all this talk about puppets and robots is just non-sense...maybe.

I almost forgot to ask. Since God is perfectly good and can not think, say, or do evil, is He a puppet or robot too? Is He the ultimate puppet/robot?

I didn’t watch it and I skipped to the last post.  But I gotta know.  Is it us Jews who can’t be saved?

The first believers were pretty much all Jews. Paul in Romans 11 says that God has not forgotten national Israel for the sake of the patriarchs, whom He dearly loved. I don't know who the elect/chosen are, so I will just say...Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

You ever have a acquaintance or friend  that did you what they thought was a favor but it really wasn't  and then they hang it over your head forever? , yeah that's religion, just another form of control.  Tell me this, I don't lie, cheat or steal and am faithful to my family, friends and wife. I have zero criminal record , my wife and I have done foster parenting to the cost of us tens of thousands of dollars, I have donated tens of thousands of dollars to a local high school football team. I have done mentoring for big brother and sister, but yet you can tell me with a straight face I'm going to hell  and a criminal rapist and killer who repents is GTG? GTF out of here with that shit.

I appreciate that but that’s a catch 22.  Accepting Jesus as Lord would mean I stopped being Jewish and converted to Christianity.  And I just can’t reconcile Old Testament God with New Testament God. Just too different. I appreciate folks who believe in New Testament God but that’s not the God from the Torah. Just my opinion.

I appreciate your candor and your irenic post. Your points above are an excellent way to discuss our theological differences.

Thanks much.

Jews have only been around for maybe 4,000 years. The first believers in gods were stone-age.

When Adam and Eve sinned against God in Genesis 3 they tried to cover themselves with aprons of fig leaves.  Their own works didn't provide the covering God required.

God killed an innocent lamb and they were clothed with the skin of that lamb.  That prefigures what the Lamb of God would do for sinners.  The Innocent One died for sinners and we can be clothed with His righteousness in place of our unrighteousness.

In the wilderness the Jews murmured and complained after God set them free from bondage in Egypt in Numbers 21.  God sent serpents among them and they were bitten and they died.  God told Moses to make a brazen serpent and put it on a pole.  Those bitten had to look at the serpent on the pole to live.  Again, that prefigures what Jesus would do for us.  He was made to be sin for us.  He bore our sins in His own body on the tree.  That's why a serpent was on that pole.  Jesus took our sins upon Himself and went to the cross to save sinners.

God of the Old Testament and New Testament are one and the same.

How many people does a man have to kill to be a murderer?  Only one.

How many lies to be a liar?  Or how many times to you have to take the property of others to be a thief?  Again, one time only.

You are guilty just like all the rest of us.

You meet YOUR own standard of righteousness, but God warns us that none of us meet HIS standard of righteousness.

Rom 3: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Luke 18: 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

so theres this thing which baptists and Christians in general believed until recently when all the gay church leaders started popping up called the reprobate doctrine which is romans 1. etc.

this reprobate doctrine is laid out perfectly but rarely preached and saying that God hath hardened their hearts and God hath blinded their eyes. just as God hardened pharoahs heart. these are the enemies of God and they didnt harden their own hearts but God did. their conscience was seared with a hot iron scripture says. romans 1 describes these people as ''burning in lust one for another men with men. in other words FAGS.

if you dont read all this and cringe just read this part at least. BURNING IN LUST GAY FAGS AND FAKE PASTORS, THATS WHO CAN NOT BE SAVED. everyone else can be saved but these 2 types and even these 2 types can be saved in their days before they hate God over and over again to the point where God hardens their heart. even super evil people can be saved who have not rejected God so many times knowingly that God ''gave them up and gave them over'' is exactly what scripture says.

if your pastor fails to preach hard on romans 1 then its time to start looking for a new church or at least dont be separated from your kids during church as these are major red flags lately to watch out for. parents guard your children.

John 12:40-
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

Jeremiah 6:30-
   Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.

Romans 1 verse 22- Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

and fake seducing pastors get this. 1 Timothy 4-1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

Matthew 7:22 in Context starting in verse 19-Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2 Cor 5: 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

God instructs Christians to beseech others to be reconciled to God because He has made them  ministers of reconciliation.

But here we see a Calvinist mocking that in order to promote his false doctrine.  He would rather be a minister of Calvinism than an ambassador for Christ.

There isn’t anyone who God can’t save. He is not willing that any should perish but all would come to repentance.

Oh, I assure you Criley, it isn't God I'm mocking here. So, what in any of this is there an untruth? Hasn't God said that He wills everyone to be saved? Has not God done everything He can to help jonny? Was not Jesus the greatest preacher to ever live? Weren't most of the Jews highly disinclined to believe upon Him, even though He preached the whole counsel of God, did many miracles, and was resurrected all before their eyes and ears. Isn't it jonny's complete and utter fault that he doesn't believe? Shouldn't he try harder to believe?

You didn't answer the question...can you exercise your free will to reject God in heaven? If not, why not. If you can't are you now a puppet?

I didn't say you mocked God - what I did do is point out that you are mocking the effort to beseech a soul to turn to Christ and be reconciled to God.

I pointed that out because that is exactly what you did.

Your false doctrine is that important to you.

Don't worry, the free will of men is the answer for all this gross sinning. At any moment they can change their minds. Just remember...don't pray for them like a Calvinist...you know...Please Lord, save these people. Pray...Please Lord, help these people to make the right choice.

You sure you have the context of 2 Peter 3:9 correct? 1 Peter 1:1 might be of help.

Can I still be saved if my black girlfriend regularly enjoys tying me to a post and pegging me with an 8 incher while she talks to me like I'm a filthy slave?

She says it does more for her than monetary reparations ever could, and I feel like I owe her that much.

No, a new birth is the answer to the sin problem.  And that new birth is given to sinners who repent (which is to turn from going their own way - toward God) and believe the gospel (that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again from the dead).

Sinners RECEIVE Christ - that is what they do the recipient takes something in order to receive it. To RECEIVE or REJECT is the act of the individual - not God.

The Bible doesn't say, "As many as God forced Jesus Christ upon, to them gave he power to become the sons of God"...

No the Bible says: John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

A distinction without a real difference. You still refuse to answer the question...why is that? Since, I believe it is impossible for God to fail at anything. If God wanted jonny saved, then jonny would be saved. That's a huge difference between us. I believe God in Christ actually saves all those He purposed to save, infallibility. You, on the other hand postulate that God in Christ only makes it possible to save however many are willing to believe by their own power. (or do they need a little grace to get over the hump)??

If you're interested in church history, you should look up the 2nd Council of Orange 529 and see what some ancient brethren had to say. Of course councils aren't infallible, but it will will give you some idea about what brethren were working on in the past.

Being depraved and a troll isn't much of way to go through life son.

First things first Criley. How can there be a new birth, if the sinner hasn't exercised his free will to believe. No free will exercised...no new birth.

Are you saying this is how you pray?

"Please Lord, save these people. Pray...Please Lord, help these people to make the right choice."

Do you want jonny to go to hell?

Why would you stop being a Jew? The Apostle Paul never thought he stopped being a Jew.

Question...how is the OT God, different from the NT God?

I would ask you to read Genesis 3:15 and ask yourself, what is the nature of this seed of the woman that could crush Satan.

I will always have a problem with believing that a "loving" God would punish billions and billions of people for all eternity just for following a different faith.

God is bigger and more loving than this.

When the sinner RECEIVES Christ that IS an act of his free will.

Your understanding is so compromised because of your Calvinism you can't get that.

I pray like the Calvinist I am....Please God save these people.

Have it your way, then.  

When you are mocking someone obeying God and beseeching a sinner to have their sins forgiven you are mocking God, too.

Great system you have there.

I find very few people deeply research other doctrines of the bible.... or original meanings and idioms of words used in the bible. It would be foolish to only show up on Sundays and take the word of a preacher about the content and meaning. Most "bible studies" aren't actually bible studies either. They are usually reaffirmations of an already assumed belief. The study books/groups are directed to guide you to a specific belief and not for the purpose of discovering an unrealized truth.

Doctrine comparisons such as Preterist vs Futurist, Universal Salvation vs Selective Salvation vs Elective Salvation, Unitarian vs Trinitarian, etc should be deeply researched by Christians and they aren't. In my experience, when I bring this up to faith leaders, they refuse to acknowledge the fruit of such a study. I assume it is because of arrogance that they believe they already know the truth without any error. I actually prayed for a long time for the truth to be revealed to me no matter how uncomfortable it may be. I still do.

Ask yourself what did the churches of the first centuries believe? Why are the modern doctrines so different from the early doctrines? etc. Don't be afraid to go down the rabbit hole. You have to go out on a limb to get the fruit.

As far as the comments about what someone prays for, I believe it is arrogant to pray that others come to believe the same as you. Instead, pray that all of God's people become enlightened. Most of my prayer isn't what is commonly referred to as praying. It is expressing gratitude for all the blessings we have received while on this Earth. We live in the wealthiest, most comfortable time in the history of this Earth. We have been blessed with more than we could ever deserve (and we probably deserve nothing). Folks fall in to the trap of comparison and they become more concerned about what others have instead of recognizing their own blessings.

Of course not. But poor jonny is DEAD in his trespasses and sin, he needs to be quickened. Dead men don't seek, let alone believe God.

This is another way of saying God's will always prevails - God's will is always done.

That is totally unbiblical and it means that it was God's will that every act of child molestation, rape, incest, adultery, bestiality, homosexuality, and every other vile act that man imagines and does is God's will.

Calvinism is ungodly.

What people?

Following a different faith is a gross rejection of God/Christ...since those other faiths reject the God of scripture. There is a devil out there leading people to other faiths.

Shouldn't the life the person lived carry more weight?

Well there you go. The sinner receives/exercises his free will and then God has the green light to rebirth the sinner.

So you are more merciful and gracious than the God of Calvinism!

How about that!

According to Calvinism, God might WANT jonny in hell!

But you don't!

Like I said before, Calvinists can't even comprehend or follow their own system!

It's great that you don't want jonny in hell - the God of the Bible doesn't want him there either.

God wants a relationship with jonny just like He wants one with every other soul.

But for the relationship to exist, the sinner has to want that relationship, too.

God didn't make robots.

God is the first cause of all things, sin came about through second causes, you and me. God uses evil to teach about salvation, grace, righteousness, what He hates. What? Do you think that evil is just something God didn't know about or things just got away from him?

Proverbs 16:4 4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Romans 9:11-14 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

All kinds of people who don't believe, there are a lot of them.

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It's a miracle that God doesn't destroy all of us. Pride and self righteous is the hall mark of men. Hasn't the history of the world, with all it's murder, immorality, and destruction proved that?

Jesus didn't come for the self righteous, he came for sinners, I qualify.

You don't really explain what you mean there, and critics of Calvinism don't pretend to think God "fails at things."

God offers salvation through a RELATIONSHIP, not a religion.  God doesn't save souls through Calvinism.

God doesn't fail to save one soul who does what He wants a sinner to do:  turn to Him and trust what He did on the cross to save them from their sins.

Rev 4: 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Ezek 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

The Bible says all things, including all people, were made for God's pleasure...

Yet, God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and He tells them to TURN THEMSELVES.

But the god of Calvinism DOES take pleasure in the death of the wicked because HE WANTS THEM IN HELL.  

And unlike the God of the Bible who tells men to turn themselves so that they can be saved, the god of Calvinism doesn't allow them to turn so that they could be saved.

The God of the Bible and the god of Calvinism bear no resemblance to one another.

Thank God for that!

A loving God offers sinners a way out of the situation their actions have put themselves in.

And He doesn't do it by various religions.  He does it by His atoning for men's sins at the cross of Calvary.

amen.

Ephesians 4:14-
   That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Matthew 7:13-16
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Not at all, God knows whether jonny will be saved or not, I don't know. I'm going on a general limited knowledge of what God does behind the curtain. If jonny winds up in hell, I will praise God for His perfect justice. For all I know jonny might be of the elect...I see everyone as possibly elect...If God wants everyone to be saved, He's not doing a very good job, in fact he's mostly failing right now, impotent almost, the scriptures themselves aren't even convincing the multitudes.

It's not "Not at all" ...

You said you didn't want jonny in hell.

Now that I pointed out the ramifications of that you are trying to back water.

So this IS your prayer after all.

I'm glad that it is.

But it is totally contrary to Calvinism.

According to Calvinism that prayer does absolutely nothing because it has already been predetermined who gets saved and who doesn't...

And you pray, "Help them make the right choice!"

But Calvinism says they have no choice!

Calvinists can't even follow their own system.

And sometimes that's a good thing.

God says otherwise. all sin is washed white as snow in the blood that was spilt on the cross for the entire world. if you reject The LORD Jesus thats why you burn in the end. not for being a good person or bad but rejection of what Jesus did on the cross. he bore our sins the Bible says.

either accept the free gift or reject it. if you believe you must work your way to heaven then you will be judged by your own good works.

Romans 3:10-
   As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Nope, I explained to you, I don't know who God has chosen, sooo...I must go on a different limited knowledge. If God told me that so and so was hell bound, I wouldn't want him anywhere except where God decided to send him. I would also point out that God's ways and God's thoughts are loftier than our thought and ways.

Criley, God is a God of means. He may or may not use the means of my prayers to save someone. He may do it without means like Paul or John the Baptist. Did John exercise his free will in his mothers womb?