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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:53:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Is Vietnam still united under communism?
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:53:16 AM EDT
[#2]
The media and politicians made damn sure we didn't.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:53:37 AM EDT
[#3]
commies
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:53:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Communism.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:55:03 AM EDT
[#5]
who lost more?
by the way, I am not going to say the US lost the war. I dont know if we won but they sure lost more. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:56:59 AM EDT
[#6]
North Vietnam won, South Vietnam lost. We wasted a ton of lives and money and still refused to learn the lesson.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:58:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
who lost more? by the way, I am not going to say the US lost the war. I dont know if we won but they sure lost more. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:58:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
North Vietnam won, South Vietnam lost. We wasted a ton of lives and money and still refused to learn the lesson. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 7:59:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The same could be said of almost every battle on the eastern front in WW2. The Russian's lost sometimes twice the man power in huge battles that the Germans lost territory. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:00:14 AM EDT
[#10]
no one
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:01:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The same could be said of almost every battle on the eastern front in WW2 (post Stalingrad). The Russian's lost sometimes twice the man power in huge battles that the Germans lost territory. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
who lost more? by the way, I am not going to say the US lost the war. I dont know if we won but they sure lost more. ETA - sorry, don't know why i added this post to this thread, completely off topic ... its monday |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:03:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Lockheed, Boeing and Raytheon
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:05:30 AM EDT
[#13]
The military won a war the politicians surrendered.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:06:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude .... the Russians had a WAAAAYYYYYY worse kill ratio that 2 to 1 ... in the battle for Leningrad they lost like 8 commies for every 1 fascist ETA - sorry, don't know why i added this post to this thread, completely off topic ... its monday |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:09:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Communism. IMO, even considering their grievous battlefield losses against the US, North Vietnam won the war because they completely achieved their war aim. However, in the years since, the US has won the peace, decisively. Whatever their domestic situation may be, Vietnam is better disposed toward the United States (a former and temporary adversary to them) than they are toward China (their historic and permanent adversary). In the past few decades, USA has done a masterful job of turning the lemons of defeat in Vietnam into lemonade. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:09:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
who lost more? by the way, I am not going to say the US lost the war. I dont know if we won but they sure lost more. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:10:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
North Vietnam won, South Vietnam lost. We wasted a ton of lives and money and still refused to learn the lesson. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:10:43 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
who lost more? by the way, I am not going to say the US lost the war. I dont know if we won but they sure lost more. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:11:24 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:12:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
who lost more? by the way, I am not going to say the US lost the war. I dont know if we won but they sure lost more. IOW if you're gonna learn from a loss, you first have to admit it to yourself so you're capable of seeing why. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:15:11 AM EDT
[#21]
We won in the field, but
Liberals won the war. USA lost. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:20:39 AM EDT
[#22]
The North won.
They then proceeded to turn a third world shithole into a FOURTH world shithole. It became the best example of Communism-in-action the world had seen at that point. The US should have let them have the whole country in 1954. It would have been possible, at that point, to blame the debacle on French ineptitude. Vietnam would now be an obscure historical footnote, and a warning of the dangers of Communism, much as Venezuela is becoming. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:22:50 AM EDT
[#23]
The press won. The people that lost were the South Vietnamese.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:24:33 AM EDT
[#24]
I have never understood why politicians held the US military back so much. You would think progress in the war would look better on them than American troops dying for no reason.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:25:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They lost more? They conquered the south and united the country under communism. It was a clear victory for the North. The Clinton administration is who started recognizing Communist Vietnam. If we are going to pick a day for defeat, lets make it July 11th, 1995. I also think you make a valid point. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:26:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Nobody won, there were just varying degrees of loss.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:27:17 AM EDT
[#27]
There is a lot of confusion the Vietnam War. Mostly perpetrated by Hollywood and the Liberals that like to gloat that the "Left" defeated the "Right". The truth is a little different that the "Ewoks v The Evil Empire" that the Left likes to portray.
Once troops were committed LBJ was a very stupid Commander in Chief. He chose to fight the Communists in South Vietnam on their grounds. That caused a tremendous number of casualties that could have been avoided with right strategic planning. Nixon understood the failures of how LBJ fought the war and changed it big time. He took the war to North Vietnam and prevailed. Nixon kick the shit out the North Vietnamese so much that they agreed to sign the Paris Peace Accords, which allowed the existence of a free South Vietnam. That was our objective from the beginning and we won. However, that arrangement was only going to work as long as the US supported South Vietnam like we supported South Korea. That victory against the Communists pissed off the Liberals in the US. The Democrat controlled Congress, aided by a few stupid weak Republicans, passed the Case-Church budget amendment that essentially defunded all military aid to South Vietnam. That gave the Communists the green light to invade. The US prevailed militarily in the war even despite LBJs stupidity. The Liberals in Congress gave away the victory. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:27:37 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you saying that when we commit to a war and fail to achieve our war aims that it is some rare species of victory? IOW if you're gonna learn from a loss, you first have to admit it to yourself so you're capable of seeing why. I think the military learned from mistakes. Politicians don't ever learn, they believe... |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:28:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Depends on what you call victory.
Our military got the North to the Peace table, and the war was ended. We achieved what we set out to do--a peace agreement. Then, a few years later, the North violated the peace agreement, and the politicians refused to back it up. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:28:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The North won. They then proceeded to turn a third world shithole into a FOURTH world shithole. It became the best example of Communism-in-action the world had seen at that point. The US should have let them have the whole country in 1954. It would have been possible, at that point, to blame the debacle on French ineptitude. Vietnam would now be an obscure historical footnote, and a warning of the dangers of Communism, much as Venezuela is becoming. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:29:42 AM EDT
[#31]
We both lost. We lost men and money, and Vietnam lost more men and got communism.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:29:43 AM EDT
[#32]
North Vietnam wanted unify the country under communist rule.
The country was unified under communist rule. Sounds to me like North Vietnam won. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:30:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Who won the Vietnam War ? North Vietnam then invaded in January, 1974, beginning the Second War of Vietnam. The USA declined to participate, so cannot be said to lose the war which we did not join. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:30:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Nothing good will come of this.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:32:03 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We both lost. We lost men and money, and Vietnam lost more men and got communism. How can you win if you get communism? If communism wins, there are no winners. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:32:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on what you call victory. Our military got the North to the Peace table, and the war was ended. We achieved what we set out to do--a peace agreement. Then, a few years later, the North violated the peace agreement, and the politicians refused to back it up. We got them to the table? So what. Playing a 5th Quarter in OT doesn't mean a thing if you're not the one who scores and the competition is. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:35:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never understood why politicians held the US military back so much. You would think progress in the war would look better on them than American troops dying for no reason. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:36:10 AM EDT
[#38]
the north achieved its strategic objectives.
the US did not. how is this a question? |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:40:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lesson is don't fight a war you don't have political spine to win. We never lost a war because of the military, we lost because politicians didn't want to commit to winning. Our solution always seems to be getting into a war then bitching that we can't do what was clear from the start wouldn't be acceptable. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 8:42:26 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing good will come of this. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:01:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a lot of confusion the Vietnam War. Mostly perpetrated by Hollywood and the Liberals that like to gloat that the "Left" defeated the "Right". The truth is a little different that the "Ewoks v The Evil Empire" that the Left likes to portray. Once troops were committed LBJ was a very stupid Commander in Chief. He chose to fight the Communists in South Vietnam on their grounds. That caused a tremendous number of casualties that could have been avoided with right strategic planning. Nixon understood the failures of how LBJ fought the war and changed it big time. He took the war to North Vietnam and prevailed. Nixon kick the shit out the North Vietnamese so much that they agreed to sign the Paris Peace Accords, which allowed the existence of a free South Vietnam. That was our objective from the beginning and we won. However, that arrangement was only going to work as long as the US supported South Vietnam like we supported South Korea. That victory against the Communists pissed off the Liberals in the US. The Democrat controlled Congress, aided by a few stupid weak Republicans, passed the Case-Church budget amendment that essentially defunded all military aid to South Vietnam. That gave the Communists the green light to invade. The US prevailed militarily in the war even despite LBJs stupidity. The Liberals in Congress gave away the victory. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:04:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Well, Vietnam is a united country under a communist government.
It sure as fuck wasn't us. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:06:30 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, Vietnam is a united country under a communist government. It sure as fuck wasn't us. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:07:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing good will come of this. Failure is the best teacher. The national policy failed, and if we don't acknowledge that, then we are doomed to repeat it. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:10:08 AM EDT
[#45]
North Vietnam won.
It’s kinda hard to argue, “Communism” won, though. 
The Communist Party did, sadly. 
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:10:28 AM EDT
[#46]
We sure didnt.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:12:52 AM EDT
[#47]
I don't remember commies of the North fighting to get on a helicopter to escape what's coming in 1975.
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:21:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The press won. The people that lost were the South Vietnamese. The South had roughly twice the population of the North. The South was supported by the greatest superpower on earth. The North had the support of the Soviets and Chinese. And yet, even with the intervention of over 500K American troops, the South could not win. Yes, yes, I know about the corruption of the South's Governments: Diem, Ky, etc. I know about the divisions in the South's society. Nevertheless, I suspect that their was a serious lack of motivation. I remember LBJ's speech in October 1963, weeks before the election: "I won't send American boys to do what Vietnamese boys should do for themselves". Didn't work out that way. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:41:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
North Vietnam wanted unify the country under communist rule. The country was unified under communist rule. Sounds to me like North Vietnam won. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 9:42:47 AM EDT
[#50]
The military indu$trial complex
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