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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:32:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Company that went all in on hydrogen still thinks everyone but them is wrong.
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:33:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Though, a hybrid without the ability to be plugged in to charge seems retarded. Why not give someone the ability to squeeze a little more electric range out of it if the vehicle is gonna sit? Even a 110V/15A charge will be useful if it's not gonna be driven for a day. I'm not against a plug in hybrid, but they still have a lot of utility without being plug in. The knock everyone gives (mostly justified, at least for now) against a pure EV is they suck at long trips. Hybrids are great at long trips, and being plug in would be of no use at all for them. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:34:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new Prius is kind of slick. They were always good cars, but funny looking. This worked for people who wanted it to be very obvious they were driving a hybrid, but not so much for the rest of us. Now it's a legit good looking car. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is one thing Toyota actually got right. Hybrids make so much more sense. The new Prius is kind of slick. They were always good cars, but funny looking. This worked for people who wanted it to be very obvious they were driving a hybrid, but not so much for the rest of us. Now it's a legit good looking car. The problem is owning a hybrid is no longer a statement. It is just a car that has to survive on what it offers now and sales numbers reflect that. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:37:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not against a plug in hybrid, but they still have a lot of utility without being plug in. The knock everyone gives (mostly justified, at least for now) against a pure EV is they suck at long trips. Hybrids are great at long trips, and being plug in would be of no use at all for them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Though, a hybrid without the ability to be plugged in to charge seems retarded. Why not give someone the ability to squeeze a little more electric range out of it if the vehicle is gonna sit? Even a 110V/15A charge will be useful if it's not gonna be driven for a day. I'm not against a plug in hybrid, but they still have a lot of utility without being plug in. The knock everyone gives (mostly justified, at least for now) against a pure EV is they suck at long trips. Hybrids are great at long trips, and being plug in would be of no use at all for them. The issue with PHEV, though it could be built around, is that space is an issue. Go look at any PHEV sedan and their is no trunk space, and to keep that in line they use all of the batteries state of charge which kills the life of the battery. Decent option for leased cars imo, but not something the buy and keep crowed is going to find reliable. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:38:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When can I get a hybrid 4wd Sienna? Any plans for that? They make a hybrid AWD sienna right now Can even get some special package to get an extra inch ground clearance right from the factory |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:43:04 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm thinking it is because their board of directors has not been taken over by SJWs.
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:45:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is owning a hybrid is no longer a statement. It is just a car that has to survive on what it offers now and sales numbers reflect that. I have a Prius. My second. When it dies probably years from now (it’s a 2013) I will buy another. I don’t want to plug in a car but I dig reliable automobiles with good fuel economy. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:46:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Toyota is more than capable of building good reliable electric vehicles.
The problem is battery technology just isnt there yet. I maintain a fleet of Toyota electric forklifts. They never fail or break down. Electrically, they couldnt be better. The only repairs I deal with regularly are hydraulics and simple shit. Our entire 400,000+ sq ft facility runs 24/7/365 on electric/battery powered forklifts. Reason they are so good... is they run on a 48VDC lead acid battery that weighs 4650lbs. Every single time we have tried going to lithium, there were major issues. Currently we have two large 80VDC Hysters with big lithium batteries. They were alot of trouble initially, but the vendor finally seems to have gotten them dialed-in. These batteries are huge and weigh more than the average passenger car alone... so not practical for a commuter car. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:50:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They think long term and see the dead end potential of EV cars. Hybrids are the future. FPNI, hybrids are fine but EV across the mainstream won’t happen. We and our grid don’t want it! |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 2:58:07 PM EDT
[#10]
If only Toyota had just appointed one of Obama's annointed activist directors to guide their path, they might have been more aware that they arent allowed to make business decisions based on engineering or market evaluations in an ESG economy.
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Posted: 1/27/2023 3:05:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Toyota is more than capable of building good reliable electric vehicles. The problem is battery technology just isnt there yet. I maintain a fleet of Toyota electric forklifts. They never fail or break down. Electrically, they couldnt be better. The only repairs I deal with regularly are hydraulics and simple shit. Our entire 400,000+ sq ft facility runs 24/7/365 on electric/battery powered forklifts. Reason they are so good... is they run on a 48VDC lead acid battery that weighs 4650lbs. Every single time we have tried going to lithium, there were major issues. Currently we have two large 80VDC Hysters with big lithium batteries. They were alot of trouble initially, but the vendor finally seems to have gotten them dialed-in. These batteries are huge and weigh more than the average passenger car alone... so not practical for a commuter car. forklifts might be the only thing out there where having a heavier battery is a benefit since you need a counterweight |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 3:16:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: In a sane world, where we had a rational energy policy, EVs would be nothing more than curiosities. There'd be no market for them at all. Quoted: Hybrids are the future. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 3:19:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They think long term and see the dead end potential of EV cars. Hybrids are the future. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 3:35:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When can I get a hybrid 4wd Sienna? Any plans for that? From their build your sienna config tool. https://www.toyota.com/sienna/2023/features/mpg_other_price/5402/5434/5411  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 3:46:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Battery tech is still way behind. Hybrid has proven to be viable, why stray from that. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 3:54:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They think long term and see the dead end potential of EV cars. Hybrids are the future. It depends on regulations. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 3:55:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Battery is literally better for 99% of homeowners. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Battery tech is still way behind. Hybrid has proven to be viable, why stray from that. Battery is literally better for 99% of homeowners. Too expensive. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 4:20:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Though, a hybrid without the ability to be plugged in to charge seems retarded. Why not give someone the ability to squeeze a little more electric range out of it if the vehicle is gonna sit? Even a 110V/15A charge will be useful if it's not gonna be driven for a day. Non-plugin hybrids have pretty small batteries, so you're hardly gaining anything by plugging it in. Room for a battery is limited when you also have an ICE and a fuel tank. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 4:44:49 PM EDT
[#20]
We can’t even begin to mine enough lithium, cobalt, and copper to supply the majority let alone the entirety of the auto market with bevs. From the point of view of resource availability it is a dead end.
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Posted: 1/27/2023 4:49:50 PM EDT
[#21]
EV's will not be the future, and I'd bet within 10 years they'll be a distant memory.
We're going to transition into another form of fueling our cars, but it won't be EV's, I do however think Hybrids are a good happy medium though, but I'll never own one. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 4:52:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Toyota is the best car company on earth and they are correct regarding EV’s. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 4:55:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps, but only because we live in Clown World. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hybrids are the future. Seriously, what can you possibly have against hybrids at this point? |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 6:41:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hybrids are the future. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 7:51:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Outside of Clown World, there's no need for them. What about that is so hard to understand? What is wrong with buying a vehicle that gets double the fuel economy of a similar 100% ICE vehicle? Do you get mad when a V8 pickup turns off 4 cylinders to save fuel when it doesn't need to be running full tilt too? I'd rather keep as much money in my pocket as possible. Are you willing to pay twice as much to drive a vehicle that does the same thing, just to stick an imaginary thumb into the eye of some nebulous imagined enemy? You're tilting at windmills with this. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:09:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Quoted: Outside of Clown World, there's no need for them. What about that is so hard to understand? I'd rather keep as much money in my pocket as possible. Are you willing to pay twice as much to drive a vehicle that does the same thing, just to stick an imaginary thumb into the eye of some nebulous imagined enemy? You're tilting at windmills with this. You seem to be ignoring the part where hybrid technology adds thousands of dollars to the price of a car. Hybrids don't make sense anymore if the price of gas isn't artificially high. I once did some scratch math, and figured out that if gas were $5 a gallon, I'd have drive a hybrid at least ten years before the money I saved at the pump offset the premium that I paid for the car. And, if by that time, I needed a new battery, the money I saved at pump would have to offset that as well. In all likelihood, I would have gotten rid of the car before it "saved" me anything. I stand by my statement... hybrids and EVs lose their allure outside of Clown World. If there were grown-ups in charge of this country, we wouldn't even be talking about them. They'd be the answer to a question that no one asked - a solution to a problem that didn't exist. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:12:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue with PHEV, though it could be built around, is that space is an issue. Go look at any PHEV sedan and their is no trunk space, and to keep that in line they use all of the batteries state of charge which kills the life of the battery. Decent option for leased cars imo, but not something the buy and keep crowed is going to find reliable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Though, a hybrid without the ability to be plugged in to charge seems retarded. Why not give someone the ability to squeeze a little more electric range out of it if the vehicle is gonna sit? Even a 110V/15A charge will be useful if it's not gonna be driven for a day. I'm not against a plug in hybrid, but they still have a lot of utility without being plug in. The knock everyone gives (mostly justified, at least for now) against a pure EV is they suck at long trips. Hybrids are great at long trips, and being plug in would be of no use at all for them. The issue with PHEV, though it could be built around, is that space is an issue. Go look at any PHEV sedan and their is no trunk space, and to keep that in line they use all of the batteries state of charge which kills the life of the battery. Decent option for leased cars imo, but not something the buy and keep crowed is going to find reliable. People said that about Hybrids for years and finally realized it simply wasn't true. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:17:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryThey're rather nice looking in-person, but for what they cost new, they're kinda slow. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:19:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People said that about Hybrids for years and finally realized it simply wasn't true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Though, a hybrid without the ability to be plugged in to charge seems retarded. Why not give someone the ability to squeeze a little more electric range out of it if the vehicle is gonna sit? Even a 110V/15A charge will be useful if it's not gonna be driven for a day. I'm not against a plug in hybrid, but they still have a lot of utility without being plug in. The knock everyone gives (mostly justified, at least for now) against a pure EV is they suck at long trips. Hybrids are great at long trips, and being plug in would be of no use at all for them. The issue with PHEV, though it could be built around, is that space is an issue. Go look at any PHEV sedan and their is no trunk space, and to keep that in line they use all of the batteries state of charge which kills the life of the battery. Decent option for leased cars imo, but not something the buy and keep crowed is going to find reliable. People said that about Hybrids for years and finally realized it simply wasn't true. ummm what? It is a well known fact. Hybrids don't fully charge or discharge which is why they have no issue. My EV states that charging to 70% will help ensure longest possible battery life, it is literally stated on the charge screen. My dads PHEV had an original EV mileage of 33 miles, after 5 years it is 24 miles, and almost 30% loss in range... |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:19:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They think long term and see the dead end potential of EV cars. Hybrids are the future. exactly... it's because they're not stupid or ideologs. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:11:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EV Thread!!! Fuck EVs. Toyota got it right, as we DO NOT HAVE the amount of raw minerals and materials to make EVs even close to the dominate form of motive power as Hydrocarbons. Let alone have it be the dominant form of motive power for any where near as long as gas/diesel. Hydrogen fuel cell is the way. IF you intend to let everyone own a car. Otherwise GTG. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:59:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Global Best Selling Cars in 2022
1. Toyota Corolla: 1.12m (-2%) 2. Toyota RAV4: 870k (-14%) 3. Ford F-Series: 787k (-9%) 4. Tesla Model Y: 759k (+88%) 5. Toyota Camry: 675k (-3%) 6. Honda CR-V: 601k (-18%) 7. Tesla Model 3: 596k (+4%) The Tesla numbers are going to get the attention of any exec, they are booming. Having said that, I think the RAV4 would of had better numbers if they had better supply. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 11:00:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Solar power is the future.
No batteries. Save on headlights. Win! |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 11:17:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Toyota's position has always been the EVs are coming, but you could do a lot more good by selling hybrids right now, and they have a point.
It makes zero sense that hybrids only make up around 5% US market share. You could probably cut gas consumption by a quarter if everyone went hybrid, and there is literally no technical or economic reason it couldn't be done. Their new hybrids do everything gas cars do better for a negligible price increase. It should also be remembered that Toyota doesn't just sell in wealthy first-world nations like the US. Toyota makes the best-selling car in countries like Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Kenya, and Namibia. They are often sold in places don't have reliable electricity, let alone public charging stations. However, in the long run Toyota is investing heavily in the technologies needed to make EVs a success. In fact, Toyota holds three times more patents for solid state battery tech than any other company in the world. I think a lot of traditional car manufacturers are going to go under when EVs take over, but I don't think Toyota is going to be one of them. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 11:39:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EVs suck. The PHEVs like their RAV4 hybrid are great, and as far as I know they’re the only company making them since Chevy dropped the Volt. Audi had some in the Dakar rally this year. |
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