User Panel
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:50:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
My girlfriend is starting to get a little better. She usually keeps ending up somewhere in between correct and woman shooting stance though lol. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs276.snc1/10333_664183264581_33024115_37956424_6620126_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs256.snc1/10333_664183359391_33024115_37956441_2864574_n.jpg she wanted to shoot with the bipod thingies out haha I think more pics of her shooting would help us to determine if she is, in fact, doing it properly. A few dozen pics to start with should be good. 
All right, I own page 2! LC |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:52:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Too much listening to Fat Joe.
Now lean back, lean back, and do the rock-away.... |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:56:36 AM EDT
[#3]
They haven't been trained correctly, and stocks are too long.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:57:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because the weapon is heavy. wouldn't boobs act as a counter weight?  If this were the entire reason... some women would lean further back than others...
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:01:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Their center of gravity is lower in the body. It feels natural to them and they need to train out of it.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:02:14 AM EDT
[#6]
My wife leans back because she said she felt like she would fall over leaning forward, because of the extra mass on her chest. I think its a natural response for them, watch a girl walk when she's pregnant, she will lean back. When she carrys a kid on a hip she will lean back. Their hips and legs are curved slightly different than a mans and I would just guess that leaning back is a natural response.
I tried showing my wife the "correct" way to stand and hold a gun but she said it hurt and told me to back off. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:09:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Child holding instinct.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:11:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.  So you are saying that you don't understand the difference between practical shooting and match shooting? Try using those stances and firing round after round in quick succession and see if you can keep your COG under control. I only shoot matches. I don't need to shoot like I'm in a war.  Train like you fight,fight like you train Like that will help my score(s). Some of you guys sit at home mastarbating to the fantasy of civil war and don't compete in any matches, while the rest of us enjoy competing. I perfer to compete and use what works, your chances of the later are less than the lottery in your state. But continue on in your fantasy. I perfer to fantasize about skinny, big breasted womenz. No man in a firefight ever wished he spent less time training. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:11:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Counterbalance?
Women may have an extra 5-10 lbs fighting gravity when bent slightly forward, with less upper body strength thrown in. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:13:44 AM EDT
[#10]
To get away from the recoil of the gun and also because women are built differently. You tell a man to put his weight forward and he leans forward because our weight is in our core. Tell a woman to put her weight forward and she shoves her hips forward because women have a heavier pelvic structure than men.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:16:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I have never seen prone with the toes pointed up 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/tumbleweed2/DSCN0528.jpg Then you haven't been around much, sonny.  
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:47:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
My girlfriend is starting to get a little better. She usually keeps ending up somewhere in between correct and woman shooting stance though lol. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs276.snc1/10333_664183264581_33024115_37956424_6620126_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs256.snc1/10333_664183359391_33024115_37956441_2864574_n.jpg she wanted to shoot with the bipod thingies out haha Dammit man, we are going to see some more pics to be sure on her stance, if someone were to say, buy you a team membership, you could post said pics in BOTD forum????????
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:47:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Everyone does it when they start, they don't want the "scary, noisy bang maker" thing going off near their face. Shit I do the same thing sometimes working up new handloads Thanks for the visual.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:53:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Child holding instinct. This, look at how they hold babies on their hip. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:54:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Same as many men. Inexperience.
Quoted:
When taking my ex GF to the range and seeing many women at the range and on Youtube videos, I've noticed that many women lean back when firing a gun, especially a handgun. Why do they do that? Is it that they think they are getting as far away from the gun as possible? I taught my ex the right way but it seems to be a natural thing for many women to do when shooting a gun. I mean check out the links below to see what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeZFo1I63gE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPMW9aF5_Sk&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QALb19Exy_Y&feature=PlayList&p=9EC6502B52375104&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDrSbD28hUQ&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YhquMYWCmU |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:58:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Better, is when you tell them to lean forward, they just move their hips forward, not lean. You have to tell them to lean forward FROM the waist. yeah, I taught a female friend the basics of handguns and had to correct that a bunch. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 9:53:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
+1
Quoted:
Because the weapon is heavy. A pistol is heavy?
To a girl with weak upper body strength, yes. They lean back to shift their center of gravity to make the gun easier to hold up. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 9:54:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
I was just going to point that out. 
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:03:47 AM EDT
[#19]
That's just one position for one particular circumstance, target shooting. It keeps you and the rifle balanced over your CG so you can maintain your hold with minimum effort for long periods of time. Also notice the examples found are those doing competition shooting with shooting jackets, all shooting airguns/biathlon/target/Anschutz style rifles.
For "practical" or "combat" shooting you always want to be weight forward in case if you get shot, or trip or fall, so you land on your feet and hands, and not on your back. So you can scrabble/crawl for cover, or get back up, and you're more likely to retain control of your weapon as well. As been said, women/kids/new shooters all instinctively lean back to try and balance the weight of the firearm. Women are more prone to it, due to a different hip stance and center of gravity (on average) from that of men. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:10:17 AM EDT
[#20]
For the same reason they strike a match by swiping away from themself.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:20:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Noticed something in regards to the lean back just the other day.
I handed my girlfriend my M4gery with the stock set at a midway point. We positioned the shoulder correctly, positioned the forehand correctly in a good hold, then I told her to get a cheek weld and sight down the irons. All of a sudden she cranks her head backwards so her cheek is on the rear most portion of the buttstock as she raised her shoulder to meet her face and she leaned back. I'm like WTF? I looked at her and asked if she was comfortable, she said "nope". So I moved her head to a forward angled cheekweld and she naturally leaned forward at the waist and was in a good stance. It was kind of weird to see. -V |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:24:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Lack of upper body strength. Yep. I see male hunters do the same thing with heavy hunting rifles. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:28:39 AM EDT
[#23]
when you remember that women generally shoot better than men, and this is generally attributed to #1 no preconceptions going in, willing to listen to the trainer #2 superior at fine motor skills and #3 sits more balanced on the hips...
I begin to think that the woman's lean back technique is maybe not such a bad thing...at least not for having a steady gun and the sights properly aligned. For followup it is bad, for the initial hit I suspect they may be on to something. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:29:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I notice in some videos from Youtube that the person shooting the pistol use the "teacup" grip where the support hand is placed under the magazine. teacup grip I like how he backs up to get a butt shot while she is looking downrange slick!
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:32:33 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
I was just going to point that out. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Air-rifle-shooting.jpg Shit yes they have it wrong for everything other than shooting competition. Here you go, keep the centerline of bore 3" above your shoulder. It helps absorb recoil really well. Are new female shooters AMU shooters? No.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:39:06 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Because the weapon is heavy. yep, they are balancing the weight instead of reducing the recoil. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:42:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
That style of shooting is only good for marksmanship competition. It is totally incorrect for real world scenarios. I was taught by a Marine that this is the proper way to shoot accept when laying prone or room clearing and such situations where it's not possible. I think I'll trust him since he has actually been in real world scenarios, unlike most here, not saying you haven't though. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:48:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
My wife leans back because she said she felt like she would fall over leaning forward, because of the extra mass on her chest. I think its a natural response for them, watch a girl walk when she's pregnant, she will lean back. When she carrys a kid on a hip she will lean back. Their hips and legs are curved slightly different than a mans and I would just guess that leaning back is a natural response. I tried showing my wife the "correct" way to stand and hold a gun but she said it hurt and told me to back off. This. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:50:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Because the weapon is heavy. wouldn't boobs act as a counter weight? They would, if they were located on their back. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 10:57:19 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
I was just going to point that out. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Air-rifle-shooting.jpg Shit yes they have it wrong for everything other than shooting competition. Here you go, keep the centerline of bore 3" above your shoulder. It helps absorb recoil really well. Are new female shooters AMU shooters? No.
http://www.shootingusa.com/TV_SCHEDULE/SHOW_27-10/27-10-1L.jpg AMU knows what's up in 3-gun. They don't lean back like that. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 11:02:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
I was just going to point that out. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Air-rifle-shooting.jpg Shit yes they have it wrong for everything other than shooting competition. Here you go, keep the centerline of bore 3" above your shoulder. It helps absorb recoil really well. Are new female shooters AMU shooters? No.
http://www.shootingusa.com/TV_SCHEDULE/SHOW_27-10/27-10-1L.jpg AMU knows what's up in 3-gun. They don't lean back like that. And in high-power they do. Jesus people. Different stances for different types of shooting, tools in the tool box. Guess what, the Secret Service HSLD counter-sniper teams learn to shoot like that, because they're required to make off-hand rifle shots out to 800 yards as part of their qualification and training. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 11:17:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
I was just going to point that out. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Air-rifle-shooting.jpg Point out what? Apples and oranges? No one said it is unacceptable in certain situations. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 11:20:48 AM EDT
[#33]
I leaned back at first, because I have very little upper body strength, so some guns you guys might find light were heavy to me.
I've trained myself to not do this anymore, and if the gun is feeling heavy, to shoot from the bench. My gf leans back because she has shoulder problems and so holding the gun in front of her can get painful. I've been trying to teach her to lean forward more since the recoil going into her shoulder isn't helping anything, but she's a better shot when she leans back, so go figure. haha |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 11:23:18 AM EDT
[#34]
I'm gonna guess they're not used to holding something with that much power and that is longer than 3 inches.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 1:57:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
I was just going to point that out. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Air-rifle-shooting.jpg Point out what? Apples and oranges? No one said it is unacceptable in certain situations. Yes, appropriate for fundamental marksmanship. Which might be what you want to cover when introducing a new shooter..... |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 4:43:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Women lean back while running as well.
That's how you can tell a man from a woman running. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 4:44:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Getting away from the gun...yes this was my reaction too and the noise still bothers me but I double up on the hearing protection with muffs and plugs.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 4:46:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
But...thats how I do it too!I have never seen prone with the toes pointed up
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/tumbleweed2/DSCN0528.jpg
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Posted: 4/11/2010 4:47:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 4:49:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
So you are saying that you don't understand the difference between practical shooting and match shooting? Try using those stances and firing round after round in quick succession and see if you can keep your COG under control. I only shoot matches. I don't need to shoot like I'm in a war.
Train like you fight,fight like you train Like that will help my score(s). Some of you guys sit at home mastarbating to the fantasy of civil war and don't compete in any matches, while the rest of us enjoy competing. I perfer to compete and use what works, your chances of the later are less than the lottery in your state. But continue on in your fantasy. I perfer to fantasize about skinny, big breasted womenz. not everyone is interested in using guns for games |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 4:51:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
That style of shooting is only good for marksmanship competition. It is totally incorrect for real world scenarios. I was taught by a Marine that this is the proper way to shoot accept when laying prone or room clearing and such situations where it's not possible. I think I'll trust him since he has actually been in real world scenarios, unlike most here, not saying you haven't though.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 5:07:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Its a normal stance to balance the gun. Most people have to be taught to lean into it. That is not natural and puts stress on the body. We train for what does not come naturally. This. I've seen lots of men doing it too. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 5:12:12 PM EDT
[#43]
hahha i have a video of a friend of mine shooting the AR, AK, M9, and rem 870. All you can hear me saying throughout the videos is " LEAN FORWARD!"
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:27:04 PM EDT
[#44]
(a) less upper body strength
(b) scared of the boom (c) not used to boxing, wrestling, pushing, other use-your-shoulders-activities It's the same reason that they throw funny. They throw from the hips and not from the shoulder. At the Appleseed, they taught us the sort of standing pose the AMU is using, and then said, "Try that with a .30-06 and it'll knock you on your ass." Recoil management is one of the reasons we lean into the rifle. The other reason is for a quicker transition from shooting to moving to shooting. You aren't ready to move quickly from that position. Finally. You'll never see the standing up, hip thrown back stance in real life combat because it makes you tall, immobile, and takes time to assume properly. It's a very stable platform for establishing a very stable Natural Point of Aim. You use this stance to aim very accurately by moving your entire body, in it's natural point of aim, until you are on target, instead of moving the rifle to get on target. It makes you a very large, stationary target, and you cannot shoot accurately quickly, or transition quickly from target to target. It's only useful for stationary shooting low-recoiling rifles at tiny paper targets during accuracy competitions where victory is measured in tenths of an inch increments. If that's your thing, great. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:40:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Lack of upper body strength. It is much easier for the spine and hips to support the weight of the rifle than the shoulders and arms. This is true for men and women, but women don't have any other option esp. for petite women with heavy guns.
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:49:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
They've had things go off in their face before........
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:53:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: Because the weapon is heavy. This. Women typically don't have the same kind of upper body strength that men have. We natually compensate by leaning back and getting the gun more towards our center of gravity. It's an unconscious thing, and it takes practice/learned technique to get out of the habit. No biggie. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:56:35 PM EDT
[#48]
It's a combination of weak arm strength, fear of the gun, and counterbalancing the boobie-and-gun combination.
It's an odd phenomenon indeed, but easily explained and corrected. |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 6:57:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I notice in some videos from Youtube that the person shooting the pistol use the "teacup" grip where the support hand is placed under the magazine. teacup grip I liked around 20 seconds in he steps back to pan down to her ass before filiming the rest of the shooting |
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Posted: 4/11/2010 7:01:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see the videos at work, but leaning back is the correct position. You guys have evidently never been trained correctly. More instances of the basement dwellers having no clue and making assumptions. http://www.biathlon.net/fundamentals.html http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/offhand1-web.jpg http://www.biathlon.net/Fig50.JPG I guess the Army marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Service Rifle competitors shoot completly wrong according to you guys.
That style of shooting is only good for marksmanship competition. It is totally incorrect for real world scenarios. I was taught by a Marine that this is the proper way to shoot accept when laying prone or room clearing and such situations where it's not possible. I think I'll trust him since he has actually been in real world scenarios, unlike most here, not saying you haven't though. What's so about that?
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