From your earlier post what are you considering the average income for a person in US 60,000 ?

a few articles I read said once you reach about 75k things should be much smoother.

My current thing is how to buy a house? I don't ever see myself avoiding PMI by saving for a 20% down payment unless I take some big risks and start a business or something. Fha seems my only option. Everything seems soo overpriced, hopefully it's just the current market.

IIRC, the US median household income was about $62k for 2017.  I don't think 2018 stats are available yet.  In general I think that $75k number aligns with reality pretty well, though location drives some difference in costs.

When it comes to home buying and the low interest loans available, I have no plans to pay my next home off early.  Cheap 30 year notes aren't an excuse to buy more house than one needs.  IMO, if you can't comfortably afford a 15 yr note, it's time to buy something cheaper.  My plan is to take the 30 year note on my next house.  I'll then take the monthly difference between the 30yr note and a 15yr note and put it in VTSAX (or a similar index fund).  I'll automate the process so I don't skip out on making the contributions.  Both the market and housing should pace inflation.  Over 30 years, I expect the market to average over 7% in growth.  If home notes go up much in rates, I might reevaluate my plan.

I tend to think the current market is on the high side.  But over a ten year time, even if we have a dip, inflation will probably make a purchase at todays prices an ok purchase.

2017 is 61K HOUSEHOLD income, not individual.

My household could live off that but we wouldn't be maxing out multiple retirement accounts or buying new vehicles every few years. Well I would likely work multiple jobs if that was our income but most for some reason refuse to do the needful.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA646N

Correct. I forgot to put household income.

Was doing good until last year when job and health went to shit. Now I'm broke as fuck. It doesn't help that I'm also ugly and stupid.

@jackthom8

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...

In all seriousness, after doing the "right" things, and getting the "right" degrees, etc. I've spent probably the last year wanting what you have.

Please continue posting.

Paycheck to paycheck sucks. The more you make....the more you will spend. Kids, cars, insurance, after school activities, nice clothes (kids grow like weeds), home maintenance......everything. It just keeps adding up. People look at you like you should have a lot because of what you make they just don't realize. When i was a young kid, my mom was broke.....we were the very definition of poor. Overdrive on my mom's car was out. She could not drive over 46 MPH at all so she took the back roads to work. She only had liability insurance and sometime let the insurance lapse, lived in a crappy part of town, only bought the cheap food and did NOT have life insurance or health insurance. Free School lunches, No cable tv, shopped at thrift stores, went to food pantries....etc.....etc. We never went out other than hang out with the other people on the block. She had a small roof leak when it rained hard.....she just let it leak. Air conditioner went out, we went without AC the rest of the summer.....next summer we had a window unit because someone at her job gave her a used one.

When you make more than everyone else in your family, they think you should just magically have a lot of money in a bank account because they think you only spend your money like they do but things just add up fast and suck you dry. When you make more you do not get free things or discounted items because you make too much.

I live on about $1000 a month.

Everything else goes towards retirement funding.

No family to support?

I make more than the OP's household income.  I'm not as broke as some folks here, but I'll never be able to retire.  Made big money in retirement accounts because I was making 6 figures from the late 80's through the early 2000's. Guess where that money went in the divorce.  But the divorce was still worth it.

Wife was making close to 100K before the company she was working for shut down her division.  An MBA in Marketing and 40 years of experience just means that no one who is willing to hire you is willing to pay you more than entry level wages because they can churn through a dozen recent grads for next to no money if they are willing to take that approach to their marketing plan.  I deal with Fortune 500's all the time; 90% of their senior marketing people are men. They just aren't interested in hiring women at that level. So my wife works a job she likes, but it covers little more than her car, gas, and her mortgage payments.

All that being said we would still be flush if I made this amount and wasn't self-employed. Health insurance, since Ocare, has gotten incredibly expensive for the old and self-employed.  My out of pocket costs in 2018, were close to 1/4 of my gross income.

I'm getting both knees replaced this year; probably going to mean the same kinds of OOP costs by the end of the year. And I pay for a semi-decent insurance plan every month.

That doesn't include helping my kids with their collage tuition (my son just went back to school full time; his Mom  convinced him he had to; of course she has a PhD and has never made any serious money) and my daughter just got engaged, and while she knows I'm not paying for the wedding outright, she also knows that what I spend on one kid I'll match with the other.

I have a monthly budget that leaves me a fair amount of money to do something with at the end of each month. Some gets invested, but there are always unexpected bills and things I just want to pay off.

Life just has a way of constantly throwing curve balls. And sometimes it just takes one tough pitch to get you far enough behind ion the count that you find yourself constantly playing catch up.

That all being said, we have a pretty good life. If I was 20 years younger I might be doing different things but at this point in my life being happy is what matters to us. Hey in a couple years we'll just go on Medicare and you youngsters can pick up the tab for my medical care.  Of course by then everything will have already been repaired.

Same reason you are - 3 dependants.

$450/mo in groceries? Is your family eating filet mignon and lobster every night?

Doesn't seem too bad for a family of five. It's certainly not covering filet mignon and lobster regularly.

I've seen FI guys target $2/meal/person. That would be $900/mo for a family of five.

I generally target $400/mo for a family of six, but I also budget $200/mo for eating out.

Not everyone eats cheap food. Some of us around here prefer to eat organic food. I shop at whole foods, it costs more but i prefer it vs eating the garbage the local walmart or other grocery stores sell.

When I was married we were spending $150 a week for four people and that was with nothing fancy in the cart. Kids eat a LOT when they're growing up.
Some store brand or more generic type of stuff is OK, most of it is not.
Even as a single person I'll drop a $100 in a single trip, but I'm also laying back multiples of stuff I eat or use because if I have a tight week or tight month, the first thing that gets cut is food buying and I eat off whats on the shelf.

I worked three jobs most of my adult life
You get to a point where you just don't want to work all of those extra hours all of the time with little to show for having absolutely no personal life.

State job, great bennies, but no raises for 13 years, keep trying.

Just the dog and myself.

Everything paid off, just utilities, food, taxes, insurance and such.

iam broke because iam a fucking idiot.

I got a delivery of heating oil (#2) for $2.599 delivered.  Seemed ok, and the truck came later that day.

Thank God it's getting warmer for me.

Been there, done that. Then things got better. Now I'm retireing, so back to poor.

We have egos that get in the way of good decisions. We get emotional and make bad decisions. That what I learned over the last 30 years,

It's simple to do smart things, just realize you will not like them. Be like Spock, not Kirk.

For example. Don't buy a sports car or truck, get an old, used Toyota car. Don't argue with me about why, if you have to argue it, you are going to keep making bad decisions to make your ego happy. Enjoy!

People are what they are because that is what they are supposed to be. "Some guys have all the luck, some do nothing but complain..." Hard truth.

Let go the ego. Be humble. Ask for guidance.

Or reign in hell.

$450 a month doesn't sound like a lot to me for 5 people.

Yes, similar, but after we sold the house in the divorce, I put alot down on a house, purchased 2 Harleys with cash, have a polaris atv, no car payments and no credit cards, life is good, should have divorced years ago.

I honestly think most people [especially young people in love] have no clue how badly this can totally destroy your financial life and retirement plans for years or decades. And that is IF you ever recover.

Take more then 1/2 your stuff, retirement and bank account [remember, you'll be paying lawyers so that is why I say more then 1/2] and burn it. Start all over again, do it again if you're stupid..........

I don't have enough fingers on my hands to list the people at work I personally know who got divorced after decades of marriage just a few years before they expected to retire or worse, right after retirement. Most had spouses that didn't work or worked PT. Totally fvcked isn't close to what happened. These are mostly men who, by that time, were physically worn out [utility work will beat the hell out of you after a few decades, especially back when you didn't have all the fancy shit they have now] and couldn't continue doing what they were doing.

And that big ol' pension is like a siren song to the other person and their lawyer.................and they almost always want every dime they are ''entitled'' to.

Quite honestly, I can't afford another marriage in my life and I can't pay for someone else's retirement when they didn't plan either.

The people I see do the best in retirement physically and financially are those who married, stayed married, and had a reasonable savings and financial plan and lived according to their financial status. The ones worst off were those who married and divorced once or twice with the second marriage lasting 20+ years and the divorce happening a year or three before retirement. If the first marriage had kids [along with the second one] and lasted more then ten years, it's a triple bonus whammy.

Jaded? F yes I am and I did much better then most blue collar guys with two divorces under his belt and a well placed distrust of marriage and divorce in America.

$450 is nothing.  I have 3 kids ages 10,11,14.  They are a bottomless pit, not complaining just stating facts.

And what do you do when you're not working, sit in a chair, put on your sunglasses, and turn out the lights?

I gross around 55k and should hit 60k this year. I swear i break even every year and put very little into savings. Constant shit braking down. Fix this, fix that. Vehicle repairs, house repairs, vet bill, it never ends. Every time i start to get ahead I get knocked back down.

Between the woman and I, we make about 150k which in the area is significant.

Because of student loan debt and car payments, rent and taxes(theft) we are barely skating by.
Plus, we want a house but it's hard to save anything when rent is $1500 student loans and car payments and credit cards from college days are all still around.

Nope, scads of guns bought over they years, enough ammo to shoot until I go blind or die, a cheap sports car, Tacoma and Honda commuter and a couple local ranges and the ability to shoot in the backyard. I was dating pretty seriously but she hit that time of life and went on meds and that was that. Hell that was why I got divorced from the ex and she turned exactly into her a few months after she went on meds.

Sad really, I liked her a lot and she was a very nice gal. She changed 100% after she went on the AD meds.

Sounds about right, our written grocery budget for a family of 4 is $400 and we try really hard to stay in that range.

That's all on you, you could do it in the 450-500 range unless you are shopping at some expensive place such as While Foods.

I don't think it's a "filet mignon and lobster every night" level of spending.

we're paycheck to paycheck but only because we're socking stuff away in various accounts for the future. I often feel broke but I know we're not poor. there's a difference. Broke is not having much cash, poor is a way of life.

wife and I work, she's doing well for her field I'm on the low end for mine. But good retirement and off time make up for it. We pull money into her retirement, my retirement, emergency fund, and general repair/shit's gonna happen funds before we see anything. Also utilize HSAs, FSAs, everything we can to pay less tax. I put money into my kid's college funds every week (3yo and 6 weeks) because I'm not going to pay a shit ton later.

We live in a cheaper house in the nicer part of town (no private schools needed). we fixed it up. we typically drive 8 year old lower end cars and only just got bigger stuff with the second kid. paying future us means current us is tight. I don't get new guns, I get to sell what I have and buy used when  I want to change stuff up. We still go out to eat but not all the time.

House with insurance and taxes  $1700/mo but we're at $100K+ equity in 4 years.
day care is $2,000/month this is the kick in the dick
student loans are $1,000/month (but go away the same year the kids are our out daycare, didn't hit them hard when I was young like I should have).
cars are $800 with insurance and gas and repairs
phone/electric/gas/ is probably $800/month

so we're at like $75k/year before food/ammo/anything fun. It sometimes sucks but so much of these are worth it or help future us. The house we bought well, and my wife makes more than $24,000 a year so financially daycare is worth it. they are great with the kids and my 3 year old is way ahead of where he would be with staying at home, I'm sure of it. I also know that if I invested just what was left over, there'd never be anything left. Doing it first means I can't spend it at PSA.

We already have enough banked that we could pull out of the rat race now (35+36yo) but we'd have to live cheap as shit doing manual labor on the family land. Everything else we bank and save an invest gets us a better quality of life going forward. Yes it's tough sometimes. yes I'm shooting more 22s than popular calibers, but i'm not going to be a walmart greeter eating alpo in a trailer any time soon.

The Richest Man in Babylon.  It was the original Dave Ramsey and is still applicable today.  Free four hour audio on U-tube.

Now, I'll go be po' somewhere else.

Ironically... today’s episode.

Family of 4 here. We spend every bit of $1000/month between Walmart/Costco/Albertsons. 90% of that is for food and the rest is TP and soap and cleaners and other randomness.

$450/month for food would be a $5k raise for me.

White Pearl Albino Caviar

broke because army

Yeah you need a budget and a calculator when shopping, that's insane.

Not really, it doesn’t impact our lives any, and it is budgeted.

Time for cheaper rent, cheaper cars and paying yourself first.

This is where most people screw up and by the time they figure it out itt's much to late.

Cars we are above water on, hers was a necessity because the last one died and I didn't want to be fixing another one constantly. I'm putting 18% in my 401k currently.

Cheaper rent is what we are looking at come September when our lease is up. And extra 500 or so would make a big difference.

If we each get our bonus and tax return that would put us in a much better position. Cc paid off would free $800+ a month.

Once these are paid off, I will try to nevercarry a balance again.

It’s not.

We do 500/mo for 5 people. That’s a “buy decent stuff at Aldi” level of spending.

We get 50-75% of our food at Aldis also. Not meat but a lot of other stuff.

$109,000 medical bill no insurance. I send the freaking hospital more every month than the bank gets on my mortgage.

Damn that would sting.

I make enough to cover all expenses including contributing 200$ to retirement, 200$ to savings, monthly. Wife starts work in Aug when both kids are in school. 50% of her income will go to retirement. The rest for "play money"
We are now buying a house and paying 50% down.
Planning on staying there for 5 or so years possibly 10 until we save enough to build a custom home.
I drive a 20 year old car, wife drives an 11 year old car.
We used to live pay check to pay check, ( nothing wrong with it, we did it for 5 years) We then made a plan and are sticking with it. I want to retire when my kids graduate high school.