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Quoted: Money isn’t a restriction for me. I’d rather have 2 better weapons that cost more than 2 worse weapons that cost less View Quote Please define "better" for us. Better price? Better ergonomics? Better modularity? Better what? Yes, the M-16/M-4 family has had some "failures" in it's history, but to take that article at face value, without applying any critical thought, and ignoring the input of some very knowledgeable folks commenting in this thread/on this board, I'm left to wonder if your data point of "better" is tied to price/exclusivity vs. actual practical use? So, to help you out, let me fisk your article in a "short" version: 1) Complexity - really? An AR is more "complex" than a Tavor or SCAR? 2) Sight height - really? Because you can't configure an AR with optics sans carry handle, FF hand guard & no FSB? 3) Unergonomic stock/spring/buffer/unreliable cycling - really? It's "voodoo" to match gas port size to gas tube length to buffer/spring combo? It's "impossible" to affix an ergonomic stock to it? In what universe? 4) Gas tube fragility - really? Why are you using an exposed gas tube? Unless you're mag dumping on FA in excess of 800 rpm, I'm pretty sure the gas tube will be just fine in most "reasonable" configurations you might find. 5) Star chamber/bolt face - Not this $h!t again...Writer totally exposes his @$$ for the world to see on this one. 6) Extractor - L O L. Replace the extractor/springs on schedule/as needed. Carry a spare if you're that worried about it. Most folks will never have to worry about it, because they will never shoot their rifle enough for it to be a factor. 8) Bullet - L O L. 5.56 NATO is a thing for a reason. It works in multiple applications. 9) No delay in bolt moving for extraction - Again, the author exposes his @$$ for the world to see. Look at the cam pin. 10) Steep angle of feed - Guess he doesn't know about M4 cuts in the extension? 11) "Shits where it eats" - L O L 12) Hammer only goes to 90 degrees - LOL 13) Magazines - LOL (Hint, they're a consumable item, meaning replace them when they don't work any longer). 14) Bolt carrier doesn't have rails - L O L. This must be why all the M14 shooters are still winning at Camp Perry. Oh, wait, that hasn't happened in FOREVER. 15) Forward Assist - He's wrong. 16) Buffer "out of balance" - Gee, you mean a person should know about the ammo they're using, the port size on the barrel & the buffer weight/spring combo & how that can impact a weapons reliability? 17) The constant appeal to authority in the article - sorry sweet cheeks, doesn't work on me. I've had the pleasure to shoot a LOT of different small arms in my life. There's a reason a LOT of Tier 1 type outfits, not just US, run with M4 pattern rifles. Hint: It's because they're very modular & they work compared to what else is available. |
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Well, I started to read through the "look at me" stuff, and got to the "AR design doesn't have a gas rod.." part, at which point I said fuck it.
It'd be hilarious if Shipley found the author was SV. Anyway, article is bullshit click bait for a relatively new industry working hard on fleecing the newest flock. |
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Except it is the best rifle. View Quote I have many of the other rifles. Some, like the AUG and SG 55x series, may be statistically more likely to function longer than an AR (higher MRBF and able to handle more intense firing schedules) but that comes with a weight penalty. Parts are less available for them also. The G36 weighs the same with an optic as most ARs with no optic, but it can't sustain the firing schedule an AR can without suffering the "overheating trunnion shift" that alters your POA. (It can still keep firing much longer, you just won't hit anything.) If you never have to expend 5+ mags all at once it's a great low-maintenance option. I'd have no problems using any of my assault rifles in SHTF. I try to capitalize on the advantages of whatever weapon system I'm employing at the time. If they break, they break. Deal with it. Have a secondary. If anyone's weapon fails due to cumulative rounds fired, they should have racked up enough kills (or suffered enough casualties) to have the weapons of the fallen as options. Otherwise someone's doing it wrong. |
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I own, or have owned many of the 5.56mm rifles out there. To include the AR, Tavor, SCAR-L, AUG, FS2000, RFB, MCX, ARX and some that I'm sure I'm forgetting to type.
I enjoy the variety, but I always come back to the AR. It is among the lightest, spare parts are literally everywhere, it is on the high side of average in accuracy for this rifle cohort, magazines are cheap and plentiful, it dirt simple to work on, it is reliable (see the results of the army's dust re-test), it is cost effective, and it is easily configurable. My only real knock against it is that I can't fold the stock and stuff it in a backpack like a SCAR, MCX, or ARX, and that is pretty low on my list of priorities. Other rifles might do one or two of those items better, but none does everything better. It's like a Glock. It might not do everything the best, but it places no worst than second in any category, making it the best overall. |
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You could easily redesign the bolt and barrel extension.
Has anyone done that? Why not? |
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has gone through so many design iterations that people have lost count. The history of the AR-15 is a history of band-aids View Quote Since the A2, the trend has been towards shorter, free floating rails or MLOK type attachments, not changes to improve the basic design. |
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Posting before I read thread, cause that is always amusing.
For today's current cost from psa for a decent ar15 parts kit you can have a mag fed semi-auto 5.56 rifle that is minute of man capable to 600 yards with common m193 ammo. Mags cost 6 to 10 bucks depending on what your preferences are and sure you can spend even more on em as well. But mag cost is a big deal if you want to have 20 mags for your rifle. M193 ammo is reasonably priced right now, but if looking at firearms in this caliber that is across the board so no biggy. Now some folks will say the cheapest psa parts kit is gonna need help. Some will just buy a parts kit that costs a bit more. Some do not want to assemble a rifle themselves. Some want a specific brand. For what a prepper should want to accomplish the ar15 should be able to do it for under 500 bucks. And that 500 bucks will cover something a bit more than the cheapest kit you can find, lower, transfer cost of lower, maybe sights if the kit does not come with all the sights. And probably some mags as well. Spare parts, also cheap and easy to find. And if you did assemble your rifle you know how to change most of em but it does not really matter if you did not assemble the rifle cause the ar15 is not that hard to work on. Spare bolt, 50 bucks at psa right now. Buy a common gi cotton sling for 6 to 12 bucks and go take an appleseed course. Hope you bought some 10 or 20rd mags for the appleseed course, if not go buy some. I even tell folks to go buy a police trade in glock 22 and some ammo and some police trade in mags and a streamlight for the gun and a holster for the gun with the light on it. And spare parts. And ammo. And classes for that as well. |
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Quoted:
You could easily redesign the bolt and barrel extension. Has anyone done that? View Quote A standard AR bolt can be used with the E3 barrel extension, but the opposite is not true. LMT also offers an "enhanced bolt", but it utilizes standard barrel extensions. I'm sure there are other companies' redesigns I'm forgetting. |
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Read the article. It's nonsense. Mechanically speaking, like every physical tool in the world it has strong points and a few weak points. But the weak points are not that significant and the platform is robust overall. Our military shoots the hell out of these things and they don't have a high rate of breakages. We have AR owners here that shoot thousands and thousands of rounds through their rifle with no issue. Whatever minor weaknesses the AR might have, you have to keep in mind that any other platform is also going to have it's weak points as well. Also, the cost/performance ratio of the weapon is excellent and spare parts are ubiquitous and cheap. If you're worried about breakages, stock some extra parts or at the price points of these guns, buy an extra weapon or two. Incidentally, in a real SHTF situation if you find yourself firing thousands and thousands of rounds through your weapon such that it breaks ..... you're doing it wrong. View Quote |
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Apparently the author knows even less about rifles than he does combat medicine.
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A shotgun is better because it has more knock down power and a better chance of hitting due to there being multiple projectiles.
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My only real knock against it is that I can't fold the stock and stuff it in a backpack like a SCAR, MCX, or ARX, and that is pretty low on my list of priorities. Other rifles might do one or two of those items better, but none does everything better. It's like a Glock. It might not do everything the best, but it places no worst than second in any category, making it the best overall. View Quote I neglected to mention the F2000. It's a great competitor to the M4, but the trigger is not easily improved upon (unlike the M4) and in general I prefer the AUG due to better/quicker access to the operating parts. F2000 weighs less however, and is ambidextrous from the factory. (A case deflector generally solves this problem for the AUG). I really want to try the F90, which is a lighter AUG with more rail space where it's needed for lights/lasers. It gives up the QD barrel, but that's worth it for the reduction in weight. |
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You're missing my point. It's less about what you're going to swap in the field and more about what you will be able to fix over time. Personally I've got 30+ AR's. If one goes down (and I don't have the part needed laying around), it's parts for the others. View Quote One pic was of an M4 that had taken a bullet and was left behind. The intact firearms were taken by the cartel, but the damaged M4 was left behind. It could have been used for parts. |
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Excerpts from the article In the military we are taught that the AR-15 is a fine weapon "as long as you maintain it." In truth, the design works (80% of the time) in spite of itself, and has gone through so many design iterations that people have lost count. The history of the AR-15 is a history of band-aids The front sight assembly sits ridiculously high because the straight (non-ergonomic) stock has to contain a massive spring and buffer assembly. If the weight or spring compression in that assembly is off just a small amount, it causes malfunction. This design flaw, right out of the gate, causes a huge mechanical offset where the eye lines up around three inches higher than the barrel. That's why in 2019 you can't find a new AR-15 with an old school front sight assembly The gas tube is thin, fragile and subject to bending or breakingusually taking the rifle out of commission. ??????? The star chamber and bolt face are perhaps the single biggest design flaw of the AR-15. That's the eight-petaled flower at the front of the bolt. Flowers don't belong in assault rifles. Some say the star chamber provides accuracy. It does not. Bolt-action sniper rifles don't have star chambers. They have two or three lug bolts and they are the gold standard for accuracy. There is no delay in the bolt moving during the extraction phase and this causes tremendous mechanical resistance. When the bolt carrier begins to move, it tries immediately to turn the bolt without first gaining momentum. If the bolt is stuck to the inside of the chamber due to fouling (or crap ammo like in Vietnam) then there is often not enough energy to knock the bolt back into rotation. There's no "running start" to dislodge the bullet before turning the bolt. Almost all battle rifles, like the M14, M1 and AK use a delayed rotating bolt. The mass of the bolt carrier, once in motion, wants to stay in motion and hits the bolt like a hammer, knocking it into rotation and into extraction. Not so for the AR-15. The extractor, due to its design has issues because it is similar to a teeter-totter that is out of balance. This causes the extractor to want to slip off the rim of the casing causing failure to extract malfunctions. This is particularly evident when the chamber gets fouled from use in combat conditions. Almost all infantry soldiers carry cleaning rods to clear this brutal malfunction so they can knock a spent casing out of the chamber and get back in the fight. View Quote |
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Quoted:
Nothing, they are inferior in every way to even cheaper ARs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What makes a Tavor better than an AR 15? That is important to some folks, and not to others. Don’t let the your AR-worship blind you to everything... ETA: I don’t have a Tavor, nor do I have any plans to get one. I am pointing out, that in at least one way, the Tavor could be considered “better”. |
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No one is going to find anything laying around. This isn't a video game. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Now that I've read this thread in its entirety, I regret it.
Ar15.com, running off legit SMEs while giving a voice to the likes of "Readyman" since 1996. |
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I would take any of my ARs over an AK any day of the week. Also, I have a Robinson XCR, so I guess that makes me basically invincible. Just because TSHTF doesn't mean I'm going to stop caring for my weapons, and I have plenty of AR (and AK, and XCR, and every other gun I own) spares.
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Well OP, while I certainly like other rifles better than the AR, there are a ton of people here who fervently believe the AR is absolutely perfect. They will be along shortly to say so... ETA: I wonder about the “spare parts” argument. In 10’s of thousands of rounds, I’m trying to think of a single time I needed to replace a part that actually broke. Battlefield Vegas has a schedule for AR parts replacement, but it starts at something like 5,000 rounds, which is a lifetime in SHTF. Parts for most rifles can be pretty inexpensive, so you can have a small stock of parts before SHTF. And no, I’m not wasting any time on the article. View Quote AR15 still comes out on top of the heap and will continue to do so for the next 30 years. |
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Quoted: A Tavor IS shorter than an M-4gery. That is important to some folks, and not to others. Don’t let the your AR-worship blind you to everything... ETA: I don’t have a Tavor, nor do I have any plans to get one. I am pointing out, that in at least one way, the Tavor could be considered “better”. View Quote It has terrible accuracy, is not as reliable, is awful suppressed, significantly heavier and less ergonomic. I’d take an AK over a Tavor and I hate AKs. |
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Why would you use a firearm in a SHTF situation that would be hard as hell to scrounge basic replacement parts for including magazines? The AR is probably the easiest rifle you'll ever find to scrounge parts for if you prepped and the SHTF plus the cheapest to stockpile a few parts for. View Quote |
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It seems whenever these criticisms come up, they usually cherry-pick bottom of the barrel ARs and compare them to top of the line Other-Rifles.
PSA vs SCAR? Obvious. SCAR vs KAC? HK? That’s a lot more fair. |
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A Tavor IS shorter than an M-4gery. That is important to some folks, and not to others. Don’t let the your AR-worship blind you to everything... ETA: I don’t have a Tavor, nor do I have any plans to get one. I am pointing out, that in at least one way, the Tavor could be considered “better”. View Quote |
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Well, I guess I better go buy one of those $700 Chinese SKSs that Arfcom is ogling about...
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Quoted:
A Tavor IS shorter than an M-4gery. That is important to some folks, and not to others. Don't let the your AR-worship blind you to everything... ETA: I don't have a Tavor, nor do I have any plans to get one. I am pointing out, that in at least one way, the Tavor could be considered "better". View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What makes a Tavor better than an AR 15? That is important to some folks, and not to others. Don't let the your AR-worship blind you to everything... ETA: I don't have a Tavor, nor do I have any plans to get one. I am pointing out, that in at least one way, the Tavor could be considered "better". |
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Same douchebag that is trying to cause a panic about CATS so he can sell more of his garbage tourniquets.
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I will also toss this out.....I consider it a BIG plus.
Toss a .22 conversion unit and a dope sheet for your scope or sight and a brick of ammo and you have one rifle that can shoot both 5.56 and .22 rimfire as needed. And 500 rounds of cheap, light, reasonably quiet ammo for foraging is a damn good idea to me in a SHTF situation. |
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