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Posted: 1/21/2019 5:52:20 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just to clarify for my dumb self, this uses .357 mag diameter bullets? That would make an extremely versatile subsonic cartridge. A reloader's dream, really. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 6:40:35 PM EST
[#2]
I hope Winchester offers those bullets as components. I'd like to try them in .358 winchester, and maybe even my 9x57 mauser.
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Posted: 1/21/2019 6:43:52 PM EST
[#3]
Where this cartridge will be popular is state like Mi shotgun zones . We sell a bunch of 44mag CVA's for young hunters but they are long and heavy . Rim cartridges wont work in bolt guns or AR15 platform very well so there's a hole in the market.
I was at a friends house he was chopping 223's wanting to build bolt gun . Nice part is this being offered in a factory cartridge I need to find a reamer ! |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 6:49:33 PM EST
[#4]
Certainly interesting. I tend to like things 45, but there are some interesting things going on.
Given the rim diameter, one would think pressure could be pretty high. Given the vast array of powders out there these days, I would think it possible to attain good energies, even with the smaller case (v. 6.8 or 458S etc). As was previously noted, guns like Contenders and even the AR15 using standard bolts, would seem like a good fit. One thing to also consider is that this case will have to headspace on the case mouth. So OAL length and trimming might have to be dealt with, in some capacity. The issue with headspacing on the case mouth is going to limit crimps to taper style. Depending on the energy levels and recoil, this could be problematic for super heavy bullets. With the 458S, as an example, due to the rim size and subsequent needed reduction in chamber pressure/back thrust on the bolt, the 458S in the AR had to have chamber pressures reduced from the nominal 556 pressures. Folks have been using the 458S in bolt actions (in the Mutant and AR10 bolt size), and finding that they can safely increase chamber pressures over their AR15 counterparts. If Winchester is planning on running and designing for a bolt action first, does this mean that moving to the AR platform would require the ammo to be throttled back some? Or will the ammo already be throttled a bit to SAAMI the thing, and be safe for the AR platform, right out of the gate? For folks who like to tinker at the reloading bench, this could quite fun. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 6:57:34 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For folks who like to tinker at the reloading bench, this could quite fun. 
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Posted: 1/21/2019 6:57:35 PM EST
[#6]
With a case length of 1.71", I think it should be possible to seat the Hornady 200 grain FTX to mag length.
That bullet is designed for the .35 Remington and should exhibit excellent terminal ballistic properties at 2000 fps. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:07:17 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope Winchester offers those bullets as components. I'd like to try them in .358 winchester, and maybe even my 9x57 mauser. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:07:37 PM EST
[#8]
This could be way better than 300 AAC.
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:09:13 PM EST
[#9]
... that's some impressive ballistics
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:23:22 PM EST
[#10]
2000 FPS is at the muzzle. At 200 yds it looks marginal for elk.
Still, I’m interested. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:47:41 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At 200 yds it looks marginal for elk. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:49:42 PM EST
[#12]
 350 Legend Hunting Cartridge | Winchester Ammunition |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:52:21 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ya' think? Neat round though, could be fun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
At 200 yds it looks marginal for elk. Beats the hell out of this for carrying.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:55:22 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Certainly interesting. I tend to like things 45, but there are some interesting things going on. Given the rim diameter, one would think pressure could be pretty high. Given the vast array of powders out there these days, I would think it possible to attain good energies, even with the smaller case (v. 6.8 or 458S etc). As was previously noted, guns like Contenders and even the AR15 using standard bolts, would seem like a good fit. One thing to also consider is that this case will have to headspace on the case mouth. So OAL length and trimming might have to be dealt with, in some capacity. The issue with headspacing on the case mouth is going to limit crimps to taper style. Depending on the energy levels and recoil, this could be problematic for super heavy bullets. With the 458S, as an example, due to the rim size and subsequent needed reduction in chamber pressure/back thrust on the bolt, the 458S in the AR had to have chamber pressures reduced from the nominal 556 pressures. Folks have been using the 458S in bolt actions (in the Mutant and AR10 bolt size), and finding that they can safely increase chamber pressures over their AR15 counterparts. If Winchester is planning on running and designing for a bolt action first, does this mean that moving to the AR platform would require the ammo to be throttled back some? Or will the ammo already be throttled a bit to SAAMI the thing, and be safe for the AR platform, right out of the gate? For folks who like to tinker at the reloading bench, this could quite fun. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 7:57:05 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2000 FPS is at the muzzle. At 200 yds it looks marginal for elk. Still, I’m interested. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 8:12:58 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well yea, but what cartridge with a COAL of 2.2" is gonna be viable much farther? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
2000 FPS is at the muzzle. At 200 yds it looks marginal for elk. Still, I’m interested. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 8:26:30 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Grendel. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 8:29:48 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Grendel. 300 maybe? |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 9:33:07 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m intrigued. If this out Blackouts the Blackout, it could be pretty cool. 300blk will still have the edge for subsonic at distance With the heavy .30 cal high BC bullets starting at 1000fps it takes over 300 yards to drop below 900fps IIRC |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 9:47:13 PM EST
[#20]
For hunters requiring straight wall, cool. Others, meh. 358 Yeti smokes it by 500 FPS.
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Posted: 1/21/2019 9:50:39 PM EST
[#21]
158 or 180 xtp’s would smoke. Rimless 357 mag/max has potential.
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Posted: 1/21/2019 9:51:43 PM EST
[#22]
9mm super magnum
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Posted: 1/21/2019 9:52:17 PM EST
[#23]
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Posted: 1/21/2019 9:52:43 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very exciting cartridge. Similar performance to a .357 magnum carbine, with 25% more weight. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 10:45:08 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to die if we're able to buy Winchester marked ARs.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The XPR looks underwhelming. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:45:45 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How far are you taking that out to comfortably? 300 maybe? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Grendel. 300 maybe? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 5:58:22 PM EST
[#27]
Interesting.
And here I was thinking I was done with ARs. Maybe not. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 6:06:32 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. And here I was thinking I was done with ARs. Maybe not. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 6:15:53 PM EST
[#29]
Will this fit 30rds in a 30rd mag?
If so, could be a really cool close range SBR caliber. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 6:52:43 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will this fit 30rds in a 30rd mag?
If so, could be a really cool close range SBR caliber. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:19:58 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the lack of taper in the case, not likely. Will require special straight mags - might work well from the UniMag, might not, but won't get 30 in a curved mag. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Will this fit 30rds in a 30rd mag?
If so, could be a really cool close range SBR caliber. 
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:24:07 PM EST
[#32]
Interesting concept, I’ll definately be watching to see how it goes.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:27:30 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the lack of taper in the case, not likely. Will require special straight mags - might work well from the UniMag, might not, but won't get 30 in a curved mag. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Will this fit 30rds in a 30rd mag?
If so, could be a really cool close range SBR caliber. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:37:38 PM EST
[#34]
I find the lack of information on this cartridge post-release to be disappointing.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:43:44 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find the lack of information on this cartridge post-release to be disappointing. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:44:22 PM EST
[#36]
What sucks is the 1.7" case length. I have a .357 AR Maximum. Similar but 1.6" case. Got excited that there might suddenly be factory ammo.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:46:53 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find the lack of information on this cartridge post-release to be disappointing. The latter has me somewhat concerned as most of the successful cartridges had barrels or firearms out at launch. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:50:40 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you look at the terrain of places with those restrictions, it’s usually very FLAT. You’re not shooting a .30-06 in a valley with a solid backstop. You’re shooting in a farm field or grass yard behind your house, maybe from a ground blind. Hopefully from a tree stand, but probably not. The laws are intended so that you’re not shooting a rifle bullet on a ballistic arc into the next county, so everything is pretty much limited to muzzleloader/shotgun slug ballistics. Ohio eased into it by allowing a limited list of obsolete cowboy action cartridges to be used in rifles, but got so much input that they opened it to “all straight wall.” I’ve been looking to build a .450 bushmaster, but with this .357 getting popular, I may build an AR in it. I also have a Savage axis (started .223) that I put a 300 blackout barrel on, but now I may rebarrel to 357 so I can take a cheap, lightweight rifle hunting on Ohio trips. Im prettymuch over lugging the 870 around and watching it rust away. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I know it's dumb to ask what the logic is behind a firearms law, but why would there be a restriction for only straight wall cartridges? I’ve been looking to build a .450 bushmaster, but with this .357 getting popular, I may build an AR in it. I also have a Savage axis (started .223) that I put a 300 blackout barrel on, but now I may rebarrel to 357 so I can take a cheap, lightweight rifle hunting on Ohio trips. Im prettymuch over lugging the 870 around and watching it rust away. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:50:58 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Earlier referenced article says $9.99 / 20 msrp, so that may not be unreasonable. Honestly looking forward to this, I think it will be very fun suppressed with the proper barrel twist and a big fat cast bullet. Should be able to get away with most any 9mm can with a decent barrel length I would think with subsonics. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:03:12 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it was intended as an AR cartridge, at all, so Winchester may not have anticipated its reception. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I find the lack of information on this cartridge post-release to be disappointing. Is that really what happened here? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:05:15 PM EST
[#41]
Everyone that makes note about a cartridge that doesn't need trimming
 Is it really that hard? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:07:47 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The idea that a major manufacturer would develop a .223 based cartridge in 2019 and NOT have an AR variant is dumbfounding. Is that really what happened here? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I find the lack of information on this cartridge post-release to be disappointing. Is that really what happened here? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:21:03 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The idea that a major manufacturer would develop a .223 based cartridge in 2019 and NOT have an AR variant is dumbfounding. Is that really what happened here? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I find the lack of information on this cartridge post-release to be disappointing. Is that really what happened here? 
I'm all in, paying full retail or whatever, to get a Winchester marked lower, though. If that happens. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:34:22 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:. I have been wondering if a 20 round mag with a different follower could be loaded fully.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:36:35 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the inverse of 7.62x39mm. Maybe 15-16 rounds in a straight 20 round mag? Piled like brass cigarettes. Get a couple of steel ProMag 20 rounders and weld them base to base, now you've got 30 rounds and can feed from either end. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:41:34 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, it's Winchester.
I'm all in, paying full retail or whatever, to get a Winchester marked lower, though. If that happens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I find the lack of information on this cartridge post-release to be disappointing. Is that really what happened here?
I'm all in, paying full retail or whatever, to get a Winchester marked lower, though. If that happens. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:49:33 PM EST
[#47]
The new Brownells 25 round Prototype mag might work.
It's straight like a 20. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:54:18 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An elderly gentleman once told me the 7mm Mashburn was the pentacle of cartridges for taking game. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:58:37 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
158 or 180 xtp’s would smoke. Rimless 357 mag/max has potential. 180gr might work. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:59:57 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will this fit 30rds in a 30rd mag? If so, could be a really cool close range SBR caliber. |
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