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Posted: 9/26/2011 8:28:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: CNBC video: US in Depression or Recession? Schiff @ 3:16, We're gonna keep pouring gas onto the fire until we incinerate the whole economy. Mr. Schiff's political dabblings have served him well; he has learned to not allow the opposition to control the debate by interrupting as he presses home his point. Consequently, he's promptly -AND rudely, ushered off the stage- but boy, did The Schiff Hit The Fan this time! -and this time, he's hittin' on all 8.  Also, VERY important- YOU MUST SEE the Kudlow healthcare fraud piece immediately following the schiff vid!  He just bulldozes over anyone trying to interrupt him. |
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Posted: 9/26/2011 9:36:05 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 9/26/2011 2:05:05 PM EDT
[#3]
It's like watching a busload of politicians and officials and beaurcrats crashing into a busload of my friends, family, business contacts, and credit union manager in slow motion.
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Posted: 9/26/2011 3:39:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Yes.
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Posted: 9/26/2011 4:04:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Okay, I find myself in the "doomer" camp 'cause I simply can't get around the math.
With the current deficit & nat'l debt, can anyone show me a way out of this mess that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being passed, implemented and succeeding? Mind you, whatever "plan" is presented, it has to realistically deal w/entitlements and eliminate the deficit in a way that won't kill what's left of the economy by removing the fed's artificial GDP boosting too quickly or leave us w/coast-to-coast civil unrest as govt bennies get reduced or eliminated. Unfortunately, I think we're past the point of no return. The 2012 elections? It doesn't do much good to change captains *after* the Titanic has hit the iceberg...
If anyone has any realistic rays of hope to contribute, they'd be greatly appreciated! 
Tomac |
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Posted: 9/26/2011 4:17:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Okay, I find myself in the "doomer" camp 'cause I simply can't get around the math. With the current deficit & nat'l debt, can anyone show me a way out of this mess that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being passed, implemented and succeeding? Mind you, whatever "plan" is presented, it has to realistically deal w/entitlements and eliminate the deficit in a way that won't kill what's left of the economy by removing the fed's artificial GDP boosting too quickly or leave us w/coast-to-coast civil unrest as govt bennies get reduced or eliminated. Unfortunately, I think we're past the point of no return. The 2012 elections? It doesn't do much good to change captains *after* the Titanic has hit the iceberg...
If anyone has any realistic rays of hope to contribute, they'd be greatly appreciated!
Tomac I don't have any. I think it's past the point of no return. We spend 3.8 trillion, of which 1.6 trillion we don't have and they are arguing about 32 billion of lesser increases. |
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Posted: 9/26/2011 7:20:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Well, the 2009 numbers are in ...
The Ultimate Shell Game: 
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Posted: 9/26/2011 7:24:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Uncle Sam's Diner is now patronized only by it's employees.
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Posted: 9/26/2011 7:28:50 PM EDT
[#9]
"Shell Game"?
Nix that- What's going on here is, The Ultimate Check Kiting Scheme! 
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Posted: 9/26/2011 7:29:09 PM EDT
[#10]
I have been saying that for 2 years now.
They are the only end buyers of the US debt, which is why the interest rates are so low and the treasury no longer reports who the buyers are. |
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Posted: 9/26/2011 7:32:38 PM EDT
[#11]
That was wild. Trader- "Super depression! I'm going to make a god damn mint exploiting the corpse of the world economy! You guys are hosed, though." BBC- 
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Posted: 9/26/2011 10:27:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Okay, I find myself in the "doomer" camp 'cause I simply can't get around the math. With the current deficit & nat'l debt, can anyone show me a way out of this mess that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being passed, implemented and succeeding? Mind you, whatever "plan" is presented, it has to realistically deal w/entitlements and eliminate the deficit in a way that won't kill what's left of the economy by removing the fed's artificial GDP boosting too quickly or leave us w/coast-to-coast civil unrest as govt bennies get reduced or eliminated. Unfortunately, I think we're past the point of no return. The 2012 elections? It doesn't do much good to change captains *after* the Titanic has hit the iceberg... If anyone has any realistic rays of hope to contribute, they'd be greatly appreciated! Tomac All you have to do is research baseline accounting and then ponder why the .gov doesn't use GAP (generally accepted accounting principals) but it's the law that everyone else use GAP. It's not pretty, and I have no idea how they will deal with it other than to try to suck as much out of me as possible to deny and delay the end of the status quo for as long as possible. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 4:08:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Futures up big on the newest EU fix plan.
I got this "buy the rumor, sell the news" feeling........................again. 
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Posted: 9/27/2011 4:08:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Okay, I find myself in the "doomer" camp 'cause I simply can't get around the math. With the current deficit & nat'l debt, can anyone show me a way out of this mess that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being passed, implemented and succeeding? Mind you, whatever "plan" is presented, it has to realistically deal w/entitlements and eliminate the deficit in a way that won't kill what's left of the economy by removing the fed's artificial GDP boosting too quickly or leave us w/coast-to-coast civil unrest as govt bennies get reduced or eliminated. Unfortunately, I think we're past the point of no return. The 2012 elections? It doesn't do much good to change captains *after* the Titanic has hit the iceberg...
If anyone has any realistic rays of hope to contribute, they'd be greatly appreciated!
Tomac I have asked this question at least 2 times in this thread but no takers on how we get past the obvious "math' on fixing a $1.6 trillion budget deficit. In the past the Keynesian answer was spend $$ to stimulate the economy and "grow" our way out. We are now so deep in debt that every dollar "spent" yields much less than a dollar of "growth". What little Keynesian stimulation was once worth is now gone. In theory if we could gut government regulations and drop the cooperate tax rate we could get business to expand, but I suspect we are now past even that solution given the politics of entitlements, environmentalists and left wing Marxists. At some point you realize you have painted yourself into a corner, accept your mistake and do what is necessary. In DC they just order more paint and argue over what color is most pleasing to their lobbyists and constituency. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 4:18:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Okay, I find myself in the "doomer" camp 'cause I simply can't get around the math. With the current deficit & nat'l debt, can anyone show me a way out of this mess that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being passed, implemented and succeeding? Mind you, whatever "plan" is presented, it has to realistically deal w/entitlements and eliminate the deficit in a way that won't kill what's left of the economy by removing the fed's artificial GDP boosting too quickly or leave us w/coast-to-coast civil unrest as govt bennies get reduced or eliminated. Unfortunately, I think we're past the point of no return. The 2012 elections? It doesn't do much good to change captains *after* the Titanic has hit the iceberg...
If anyone has any realistic rays of hope to contribute, they'd be greatly appreciated!
Tomac I have asked this question at least 2 times in this thread but no takers on how we get past the obvious "math' on fixing a $1.6 trillion budget deficit. In the past the Keynesian answer was spend $$ to stimulate the economy and "grow" our way out. We are now so deep in debt that every dollar "spent" yields much less than a dollar of "growth". What little Keynesian stimulation was once worth is now gone. In theory if we could gut government regulations and drop the cooperate tax rate we could get business to expand, but I suspect we are now past even that solution given the politics of entitlements, environmentalists and left wing Marxists. At some point you realize you have painted yourself into a corner, accept your mistake and do what is necessary. In DC they just order more paint and argue over what color is most pleasing to their lobbyists and constituency. Gimic accounting and not just lax lending standards, but essentially no lending standards (a pulse and functional hand able to sign papers being the only two requirements), fueled the last greatest credit expansion during the housing bubble. If you apply 20% down and good credit history, what percentage of people actually qualify for any loan today? Including house, car, etc. The economy is built on credit expansion. Where is that expansion going to come from? Another question: What is the true economic expansion potential minus accounting gimics, with prudent lending standards, without an ever increasing debt increase above and beyond GDP increase? |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 5:13:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Okay, I find myself in the "doomer" camp 'cause I simply can't get around the math. With the current deficit & nat'l debt, can anyone show me a way out of this mess that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being passed, implemented and succeeding? Mind you, whatever "plan" is presented, it has to realistically deal w/entitlements and eliminate the deficit in a way that won't kill what's left of the economy by removing the fed's artificial GDP boosting too quickly or leave us w/coast-to-coast civil unrest as govt bennies get reduced or eliminated. Unfortunately, I think we're past the point of no return. The 2012 elections? It doesn't do much good to change captains *after* the Titanic has hit the iceberg...
If anyone has any realistic rays of hope to contribute, they'd be greatly appreciated!
Tomac I have asked this question at least 2 times in this thread but no takers on how we get past the obvious "math' on fixing a $1.6 trillion budget deficit. In the past the Keynesian answer was spend $$ to stimulate the economy and "grow" our way out. We are now so deep in debt that every dollar "spent" yields much less than a dollar of "growth". What little Keynesian stimulation was once worth is now gone. In theory if we could gut government regulations and drop the cooperate tax rate we could get business to expand, but I suspect we are now past even that solution given the politics of entitlements, environmentalists and left wing Marxists. At some point you realize you have painted yourself into a corner, accept your mistake and do what is necessary. In DC they just order more paint and argue over what color is most pleasing to their lobbyists and constituency. Gimic accounting and not just lax lending standards, but essentially no lending standards (a pulse and functional hand able to sign papers being the only two requirements), fueled the last greatest credit expansion during the housing bubble. If you apply 20% down and good credit history, what percentage of people actually qualify for any loan today? Including house, car, etc. The economy is built on credit expansion. Where is that expansion going to come from? Another question: What is the true economic expansion potential minus accounting gimics, with prudent lending standards, without an ever increasing debt increase above and beyond GDP increase? I tend to agree that the past 30 years or so of economic "growth" was do in large part to pulling forward spending by acquiring debt. The sordid details of how people and institutions gamed the system to get ever more credit and leverage, while germane to the discussion, does not address the core issue. At some point you need to stop spending and start paying back what you borrowed. Taking on debt to further consumption is a net negative both personally and collectively and should be used very sparingly since it will be payed back with interest and represents a net loss. Taking on debt that will potentially generate income, loans for building a business for example, represents potential growth and is a net positive, this is a cornerstone of true capitalism. Somewhere we lost that distinction and now find it is time to pay for all the consumption. Unfortunately the size of the debt, public and private, is now so large that it can not be paid unless we are willing to spend (consume) a LOT less now. If we take that path we need to cut ~$1.6 trillion in yearly federal spending, another trillion $ or so by the states, and cut back on promised entitlements (SS, Medicaid public pensions etc.) that are under funded or unfunded liabilities. The impact of that level of cutbacks will cause a recession/depression. If we don't make the cuts we will at some point default either directly on our loans/obligations or by high inflation if we decide to bail out the debtors. Cutting back on spending will be very painful to a great majority of Americans, it requires politicians to actually vote on legislation that will be extremely unpopular to said Americans and it will be very obvious to those voting Americans who caused their pain. To continue to borrow and spend causes much less (short term) pain, requires no unpopular legislative voting (we all love free stuff) and when it finally all come to a head every politician will claim they did their best to stop it, had no part in causing it and it was the other parties fault. Care to guess which path we will take? |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 5:19:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Care to guess which path we will take? Print, baby, print. Adding: 
The above chart shows it all. The amount of debt needed to be pulled forward to get an equivalent growth in GDP became larger and larger, until it couldn't. Despite the FED's mandate of keeping the growth in credit (debt) inline with the growth in GDP, numerous Presidents and numerous Congresses, with the FED's monetary support the entire time, allowed this to happen. The entirety of their efforts since 2007 was to keep this going, at any and all cost. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 5:33:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Who ever is pres after Obama will be able to blame Obama for the next 8 years!
We are truly fooked! The only real question is how it plays out when the gen population realizes the game is up? |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 5:39:05 AM EDT
[#19]
250pt open..............all better now.
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:22:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Who ever is pres after Obama will be able to blame Obama for the next 8 years!
We are truly fooked! The only real question is how it plays out when the gen population realizes the game is up? I assume that is a rhetorical question? How do spoiled overgrown children usual react when "someone" hurts them? We either grow a pair, collectively accept responsibility for our screw up and move on, or we cheer and support the dictator in waiting who finds the right scapegoat to blame and promises us salvation if we let him take care of the "problem". Damn aren't I the ray of sunshine this morning. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:42:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
250pt open..............all better now. the indexes mean absolutely nothing unless you are a trader (I have family in that business) if you are a 9-5 joe six pack and planning your finances that include stocks you are a sucker(unless it's funny money), even good companies with solid preformance will get sucked down the impending inescapable reality of 2+2=4. If folks followed the advice that was shared 3 years ago, "get out of debt, and get liquid" they will be fine, those that continue to roll the dice and leverage up will be decimated. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:52:52 AM EDT
[#22]
^ I am out of debt. All of it, including the house. I am illiquid. What now?
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Posted: 9/27/2011 8:07:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Jchewie, you mean you're liquid- not illiquid, right 
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Posted: 9/27/2011 8:32:40 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 9/27/2011 8:51:14 AM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 9/27/2011 9:05:15 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Uncle Sam's Diner is now patronized only by it's employees. But they are making a profit. With the new and improved GAAP, now, That diner has the taxpayer to bail them out. So they are doubling down, to double the profit. Fuckers will never acknowledge TANSTAAFL TXL |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 11:47:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Uncle Sam's Diner is now patronized only by it's employees. But they are making a profit. With the new and improved GAAP, now, That diner has the taxpayer to bail them out. So they are doubling down, to double the profit. Fuckers will never acknowledge TANSTAAFL TXL They can do that until oil is sold in something other than the dollar. Once that happens, the MAED (Mutual Assured Economic Destruction) Plan that was put in place to help prevent a nuclear WWIII will be realized. The question is - will that turn into a shooting war? |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 1:35:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan.....
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Posted: 9/27/2011 1:54:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan..... Would this make war #4, or would it just be viewed as an escalation of Afghanistan? |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 2:09:25 PM EDT
[#30]
One of his comments was that the people's savings would be destroyed... is he suggesting that savings accounts will be raided? Or only if you play in the Markets? |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 2:43:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
One of his comments was that the people's savings would be destroyed... is he suggesting that savings accounts will be raided? Or only if you play in the Markets? That guy was shooting a lot of flies with a shotgun, but I took away he says that people with money in 401ks are going to get severely cornholed by market action. Actual "raiding" of savings accounts would only come long after that (and would probably spark a revolution). |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 3:34:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan..... why do you say this? |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 3:50:44 PM EDT
[#33]
-er, hold up folks...
[IMPORTANT]
"Trader'" Alessio Rastani is a Pretender- A HOAX!!! "I agreed to go on because I'm attention seeker," he said on Tuesday. "But I meant every word I said."
 |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 4:27:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Jchewie, you mean you're liquid- not illiquid, right I am illiquid by virtue of owning a home, easily my largest asset, (purchased in 2004) in a market where it cannot be sold both quickly and at top dollar (for me). |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 4:34:18 PM EDT
[#35]
That is an outstanding graphic that illustrates perfectly what the goofballs in Washington argue over. The only thing I would add would be the amount we give away to the local mob for protection (medicare, social security, welfare) and a footnote about having to visit the local loan shark (the Fed) for credit. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:02:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan..... why do you say this? Yahoo had a "lead" story this morning about proof that Paki's are helping attack troops in Afghanistan. Just lots of chatter about Pakistan and it's role in helping kill Americans. Seems to me like we are being groomed to just nod when someone suggests we get active in Pakistan. I vividly remember the chatter before Gulf War 1. It seem similar. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:19:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan..... why do you say this? Yahoo had a "lead" story this morning about proof that Paki's are helping attack troops in Afghanistan. Just lots of chatter about Pakistan and it's role in helping kill Americans. Seems to me like we are being groomed to just nod when someone suggests we get active in Pakistan. I vividly remember the chatter before Gulf War 1. It seem similar. Well if that happens SF will probably go in and secure the nukes first. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:21:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan..... why do you say this? Yahoo had a "lead" story this morning about proof that Paki's are helping attack troops in Afghanistan. Just lots of chatter about Pakistan and it's role in helping kill Americans. Seems to me like we are being groomed to just nod when someone suggests we get active in Pakistan. I vividly remember the chatter before Gulf War 1. It seem similar. Well if that happens SF will probably go in and secure the nukes first. SF + drones would be hella interesting to watch. |
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Posted: 9/27/2011 6:27:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan..... I wonder if India now sees it as squandereing a gorgeous after-the-big-flood opportunity. |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 6:25:40 AM EDT
[#40]
Headwinds persist. BoA still in deep doo-doo. Wonder what the derivative domino effect is of BoA going under? Wonder what The Bernank's response will be if this comes to a head?
No, I don't wonder. I know there's a huge derivative domino setup and I know what The Bernank's response will be. Maybe Buffet should double down on his BoA bet. I'm sure that will help. BoA under pressure |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 8:28:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
One of his comments was that the people's savings would be destroyed... is he suggesting that savings accounts will be raided? Or only if you play in the Markets? today most folks deposit most of their "saving" into 401K's, they view them (foolishly) as savings accounts all the data underscores this, they are screwed. |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 8:31:41 AM EDT
[#42]
want to know what the smart money is doing?
Man Down As Hedge Fund Redemptions Arrive: 25% Of Hedge Funds Industry To Follow Into That Good Night http://www.zerohedge.com/news/man-down-hedge-fund-redemptions-arrive-25-hedge-funds-industry-follow-good-night hedgies front run folks, 401K manargers chase return. |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 8:33:57 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
-er, hold up folks... [IMPORTANT]
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdURksDMmwjtmluyeZYAvMLleJo5vSlDY3F6js9P8P5lFboWL49whttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQixcA2lqiHtw5vagGF4J09ishQ-bMKMLNKLw5C_WwSVC7UYUB7PQ
"Trader'" Alessio Rastani is a Pretender- A HOAX!!! "I agreed to go on because I'm attention seeker," he said on Tuesday. "But I meant every word I said."
BBC Releases Official Statement On Alessio "The Trader" Rastani: He Is Perfectly Legit And The Interview Was Not A Hoaxhttp://www.zerohedge.com/news/bbc-releases-official-statement-alessio-trader-rastani-he-perfectly-legit-and-interview-was-not |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 8:35:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like we are being prepped to start bombing the shit out of Pakistan..... 1430419 why do you say this? Yahoo had a "lead" story this morning about proof that Paki's are helping attack troops in Afghanistan. Just lots of chatter about Pakistan and it's role in helping kill Americans. Seems to me like we are being groomed to just nod when someone suggests we get active in Pakistan. I vividly remember the chatter before Gulf War 1. It seem similar. That it does...that it does. |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 10:16:49 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 9/28/2011 5:04:55 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/28/2011 6:25:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Hussey Copper files bankruptcy papershttp://www.timesonline.com/news/hussey-copper-files-bankruptcy-papers/article_d56cd054-1db9-5338-8ede-4b0ebc7a96e2.html Hussey Copper Ltd., a163-year-old company headquartered in Leetsdale for the past 58years, filed a Chapter 11 petition Tuesday. The petition says Hussey employees 536 people, including 190union workers in Leetsdale. The corporation also operates twoplants in Kentucky.
Hussey Copper owes $38.1 million to a group of lenders,including PNC bank, and owes $29 million to vendors, primarilymetals suppliers, according to court documents. Hussey'sdocumentation included a list of 20 creditors owed between $9million and $158,000. Cronimet Trading Corp. of Rochester is owed$1 million, and Beaver Valley Slag of Aliquippa is owed$169,000.
Damn.
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Posted: 9/28/2011 6:34:12 PM EDT
[#48]
it is so fucking past time it's pathetic. |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 6:48:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
it is so fucking past time it's pathetic. Helluva lot of research and digging went into that article. |
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Posted: 9/28/2011 7:11:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: it is so fucking past time it's pathetic. Helluva lot of research and digging went into that article. Just proves that the economy has been dead since the 70's. It's only life line is massive government intrusion and free taxpayer backed money. |
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