Safe from what?

Don't listen to him. If we were supposed to believe, we would.

Hebrews 11:1 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.'  To say what you're saying is a straw-man misinterpretation of what is actually written. Faith is evidence of God gained by non-empirical means, i.e. through means other than the 5 senses. Without this evidence you would not have billions of believers. You do not believe because you have not yet gained this evidence, or it was given to you, but you either did not recognize it or did not accept it. Your statements about faith are entirely false and show no understanding of spiritual things.

You're going to feel silly when you die and stand before Odin for final judgement.

It's just as likely.

There's a religion forum if you'd prefer an echo chamber.

By that rationale, then every god people have ever had faith in must be real...

In other words, you have no evidence.

When any soul exerts themselves heavenward humbly yearning and seeking to know that there is a supreme being, God may bless them with spiritual evidence to know that He is. The details of precisely who He is in that trascendent moment is not consequential or necessary to the seeker in that moment. For all intents and purposes in that seeking, in that moment of 'God do you exist' Odin, Allah, and the God of Abraham are one. Knowing He exists is the genesis of spiritual knowledge. What comes after that is hotly disputed.

Up above you said:

"Jesus is the only person who ever died and came back to life."

However, there are a couple of Bible verses that seem to contradict this.

Remember Lazarus? John 11:38-44

Also, Matthew 27:52 (NASB):

"The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;"

That's pretty unfair of you to demand a Christian read his book.

Alternately:  "Those were just metaphors!"

you tell me...you're the one pushing it.

You don't do sarcasm...do you?

Believing things without good evidence is not a good way to truth. It doesn't matter how much you want people to REALLY REALLY believe first/"exerts themselves heavenward humbly yearning and seeking" and then get "spiritual evidence". People can have deeply moving experiences/which can seem "miraculous" (I believe that), however the leap to what amounts to magic/the supernatural is flawed thinking. Our brains can have such deeply moving experiences/"miraculous" experiences under hypnosis/dancing/drugs/etc. I don't dispute that such deeply moving experiences occur, I'm questioning the leap to conclusions afterwards (like people who take LSD and believe in loving energy/chakra aliens afterwards instead of recognizing that their brain was just having a disco-party of neurons firing and it's not a good way to get to truth.) People's brains can trick them. You ever see an optical illusion?

How is not knowing which God is real not "consequential or necessary to the seeker in that moment"? Allah will burn you in hell for not following Mohammed, Jesus is the only way to heaven., etc.,etc.,etc. You can get hit by a bus and end up burning in hell forever because you chose the wrong God.

Hindus believe in multiple Gods, are those Gods all one or are they separate?

Do you think people can believe things that aren't true? Do you think that Hindus (and their belief in reincarnation) is right? How do you square that with your thinking heaven/hell is right?

Blah blah blah. Stammer stammer stammer. Blah blah blah. faith faith faith. Jesus. Son. God. Sin. Sacrifice. Blah blah blah

Don't expect any rational thinking or arguements when it comes to the imaginary worship

I do understand that what you're saying makes sense to you. It is your way of explaining the experiences people have. You're not the first to come up with the 'mass delusion' hypothesis. Many people do not have overwhelming first experiences with spiritual things. They are often much more subtle only giving enough to motivate you to confine to seek. When one thing happens you can, and many do, explain it away. Two things, explain it away, three, four, ten, twenty, hundreds, experiences every single day become foolishness to try and explain away. I could no more explain away or dismiss the experiences I've had with spiritual things than you could the existence of the things you see with your eyes. I've experienced them too many times. This is the evidence of things not seen.

You keep saying (incorrectly) that 'believing things without good evidence is not the way to truth.' I have excellent evidence. It is just not of an empirical nature. What is the way to truth?

Of course people can believe things that aren't true. You for example believe there is no God. I know that there is a God and that He loves His children. He wants to see His children learn to be more like He is. Most world religions teach their adherents good morals, whether they're fully aware of Gods laws or not.

It is inconsequential because you must first begin to believe that there is a supreme being before you can seek to know His attributes. The questions you ask are not the questions of a seeker of truth though. They're the questions of someone who wants to satisfy themselves that they already have the answers. Have you sought? Humbly? Have you studied and applied to your life the precepts of any religion? Any of them? Have you ever tried to become a desciple of something greater than yourself? Or are you greater than everything you come in contact with? Seek Him humbly my friend. You will find Him if you do.

ETA: You assume you understand my conception of Heaven and Hell and you don't. I believe all religions have elements of truth and some doctrines that are similar but have been misapplied or misunderstood over the centuries. The Hindu belief in reincarnation is at its most fundamental roots similar to the idea of being born again mentioned in the bible.

I think people really do have the moving experiences they claim (though I wouldn't agree with the conclusions they draw). I'm just saying it's not a good way to get to truth. A Hindu would see multiple Gods. A Muslim would see Allah. A Christian would see Yahweh. People (of various religions) have had a ton of "spiritual experiences" with mutually contradictory Gods. It matters immensely which one they worship/see at the moment (contrary to your earlier statement) or otherwise they could burn in hell forever/be severely punished. People's brains jump to conclusions, it's what it does. We've had previous Gods for thunder, tsunamis, the sun and the moon, etc.

If the evidence you have is the same kind of evidence that can "prove" a mutually contradictory God, it's not "excellent evidence".

This Allah god seems pretty pissed off all the time, I'm not sure if people would agree with the whole loving thing. Same with Yahweh watching child rape and doing nothing.

My claim is just that there is no good evidence to currently believe in any God, I'm not making any positive claim that "there is no God". One shouldn't believe in unicorns/leprechauns/a teapot in the Andromeda galaxy until there is good evidence for it. One may colloquially say that there aren't any real leprechauns/teapots floating in space (even if we haven't searched every corner of the universe for it).

One should FIRST get good evidence BEFORE they REALLY REALLY believe. You shouldn't jump to comfortable conclusions. You wouldn't say that people have to really really believe in spirit-leprechauns first, would you?

I'm a Secular-Humanist Agnostic-Atheist, I think mindfulness is pretty interesting. I don't claim to know all the answers. I've read the Bible (and researched other religions), I honestly got more out of Aesop's Fables (and other books [mindfulness, psychology, etc. related]).

I think God grades on a curve-   Thanks to the Middle Ages and Drug Cartels I'm a solid C- person, which is passing,  so I'm solid.  That said I'll die with a sword in my hand, just to piss off a nurse one last time and make them have a dumb ass meeting about "respecting my religious beliefs" or some shit.  Worst case, my wife sues the hospital, that's kinda my life insurance policy.

It is pretty telling how few people stray from their parent's religion (or the dominant religion in their place of residence).

I'm not pushing anything.

I merely saying that I thought there was a religious forum for this type of thing.

I still don't understand your reference to a safe space.

Can you elaborate?

Well that's just straight up false.

Remember Lazarus? John 11:38-44  Do you not know who raised Lazarus and why Jesus waited to arrive at his side? You seem to know the story, why refuse the message?

FYI I do not have blind faith as there have been times in my life when I have felt Gods presents and have seen seemingly impossible odds overcome with his intervention!

I must get back to work, please search your heart.

A case for Christ

what does it tell ?
how do you know that ?

This. I know I'm late to the game so it may already be posted.

I would suggest to you that reading the Bible and researching other religions is not sufficient to gain a knowledge of truth. You actually have to exercise faith by taking a precept or principle of truth and live it. Experiment upon the words of God, live them in your life and notice what they do. You may not have evidence of their benefit for yourself at first, though some do have powerful initial experiences. This must be gained like muscles in the body. I can teach you how to gain those muscles, you can read books on gaining those muscles but you will not gain them until you first have faith that the principles of muscle building will work, and then implement them into your life and live them, indeed work hard day after day, week after week, month after month only seeing small results at first, then looking back and seeing the transformation. Then you receive the reward of that faith...strong muscles. You don't get to read the book, and then magically have the muscle first to try them out before you do the work to gain them.This is how God works my friend.

Pretty much the same thing

"Testimony"? That's...an interesting euphemism for the gibberish he had coming out of his mouth.

...

...

LMAO, BS.

...courtesy.

Was he holding a snake?

In 1980 Father Guido Sarducci describes how the soul has a job.
Upon death, God pays the soul in full ($14.50/day), then deducts for sins.


Father Guido Sarducci "We pay for our sins" sketch

Whew, damn.  Are you're armed, presumably.  

Appreciated. I withdrew my comments because:

1. it's unlikely to change either of our opinions regarding things we feel so strongly about. In that sense it's a futile task and as a rule I avoid that whenever I can.

2. in debates of these nature, it's unavoidable that one's criticisms amount to saying that 'I think your religion is bad or silly' which unnecessarily rude to imply.

3. deep down, I have no desire to alter the faith of any man, one way or the other. I think we can agree that we are each of us responsible for our own soul, for finding truth if there's any truth to be had.

Agreed. Frankly it's a very poor forum for actual idea exchange because most are here to banter rather than learn or constructively educate. I've found it fascinating though to see all of the different ideas about faith in general that people have. Ironically I see several serious problems with the video that started this thread, and came here out of curiosity for people's reaction to it. The key for me was when he said he was praying for an 'out of body experience.' That statement, for me, categorizes his dream into 'other/unknown' origins. Ymmv.

Sorry, I can't believe in an all loving and all forgiving God who created us as extremely fragile, and prone to sin - but who will also callously toss us into hell for eternity because were are fragile and prone to sin.

I am sure Hell exists, but it is the realm of demons and fallen angels. If God is all forgiving, he would forgive all of us sinners. And since we can't know when we will die, he would give us all an opportunity to repent.

the video in original post is not correct.  sounds like a Hollywood script.

I explained what the "afterlife" is like.  too bad the thread was archived, though.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1748466__ARCHIVED_THREAD____I_have_vividly_experienced_the_afterlife_.html&page=1

The logical answer is that is any loving God exists, it will understand why some don't believe. It isn't because we hate God or because we want to rebel or revel in sin. It is because the evidence isn't there. I doubt he would want us to be gullible.

Absolutely...but....you have to ask for it.

God hasn't doomed anyone.  People doom themselves.  I know personal accountability isn't fashionable these days ...

Faith and love do not involve "proof" - they just are.

Like the song says, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

Christians don't take personal responsibility for their sins. They pass that responsibility on to Jesus.

I accept full responsibility for the sins I've committed.

Lol...let us all base decisions on eternity on Rush lyrics!

I disagree, you posit your god created us and gave us free will, knowing none of us will ever be perfect.  Then if we don't believe in him with no evidence (he gave us a mind that questions and seeks truths backed by facts) he created Hell to toss us in.  Your god doomed you from the start and knew it.  

He did not doom you or me to hell, because there is no such place (though some places I have been in this world sure come close to the descriptions).

 
That's not scriptural. According to the Bible, God selected his Elect before time began. They are saved no matter what they believe or what they do in life. Likewise, everyone else is damned, no matter what they believe or what they do in life.


Why? Because God is in charge, not you. Anyone teaching otherwise isn't following the Bible or the Christian faith, no matter what they proclaim. (This, of course, is why there are hundreds of so-called Christian religions, each worshiping their own "Jesus".)


The God of the Bible is omnipotent, and doesn't take no kindly. The idea that humans decide their own fate, regardless of God's wishes, is the height of arrogance, and is not supported by Scripture.

At least eternity has a great guitar riff..


What I find particularly offensive about much of Christianity is the idea of Original Sin, and all the guilt and emotional baggage that the follower of Jesus has to carry around because of it. I think it's crazy for someone to tell me that I committed some kind of moral crime for being born, and that I must submit to their belief system in order to atone for it. If they want to submit to a Lord or King, then go ahead. That concept is as foreign to me as is the idea of living in a state of total moral responsibility to a Christian.

I already have to submit to enough unpleasantness in my life, and so the idea of submitting to the will of a god(who is invisible, and so therefore I must trust the word of a man in his stead), is just offensive. But if you want to yoke yourself to that kind of emotional and psychological slavery, then go right ahead. Just don't expect me to join you as a fellow galley slave on the SS Guilt Trip.

My knees bend for no man, nor for any of his fictional deities.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Actually, THIS is the height of arrogance.