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Posted: 5/3/2016 5:23:18 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. And there won't be, until it happens. And in that moment you will understand that what kept you from belief was a flaw, and not a strength, a willful flaw inside of yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any actual physical evidence? No. And there won't be, until it happens. And in that moment you will understand that what kept you from belief was a flaw, and not a strength, a willful flaw inside of yourself. My flaw willed me. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 5:24:13 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An "outer body experience"?? That's a willful flaw. Straight to hell. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 5:29:31 PM EST
[#3]
Can someone please cut and paste some scripture?
It's a great fallback when this subject hits bottom.....and it always does. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 5:42:41 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree, you posit your god created us and gave us free will, knowing none of us will ever be perfect. Then if we don't believe in him with no evidence (he gave us a mind that questions and seeks truths backed by facts) he created Hell to toss us in. Your god doomed you from the start and knew it. He did not doom you or me to hell, because there is no such place (though some places I have been in this world sure come close to the descriptions). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gifhttp://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gif I feel bad that god has doomed 70% of the WORLDS population to hell. Well I take that back even more perhaps , Jehovah's witness , Mormons , ? Will they be allowed in heaven?  God hasn't doomed anyone. People doom themselves. I know personal accountability isn't fashionable these days ... I disagree, you posit your god created us and gave us free will, knowing none of us will ever be perfect. Then if we don't believe in him with no evidence (he gave us a mind that questions and seeks truths backed by facts) he created Hell to toss us in. Your god doomed you from the start and knew it. He did not doom you or me to hell, because there is no such place (though some places I have been in this world sure come close to the descriptions). I still contend that religion is based on upbringing and geography for most of the faithful and suggest that most Christians here would be Muslims had they been born in Saudi Arabia or Hindus had they been born in India. Sure there are converts on both ends but most adopt the faith of their upbringing. On the other side of the globe there's a billion Muslims saying they're all going to Hell and all of it is based on blind faith in a God that plays guessing games on your eternal damnation or salvation by making you pick "the right" faith in a world with many and no proof to back any of them save for their own written records. If you assume Christianity is correct then it's hard not to draw the conclusion that an all knowing God knew who would believe and who would not and then created non believers for the inevitable outcome of tossing them into Hell. Faith is just that and a person can fall down on their knees and profess it verbally but still in their heart know they don't believe and therefore still fall short of salvation per the rules. One cannot force oneself to believe. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 5:45:08 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You depart from me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone please translate: "Youse a pafomy!" The hell is this guy saying? You depart from me. Seriously? Where does the D come in? I thought maybe "You're apart from me.", but WTF, his speech was 95% authentic gibberish. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 6:12:41 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can someone please cut and paste some scripture? It's a great fallback when this subject hits bottom.....and it always does. "She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey's and emissions like those of a horse." |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 6:22:18 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still contend that religion is based on upbringing and geography for most of the faithful and suggest that most Christians here would be Muslims had they been born in Saudi Arabia or Hindus had they been born in India. Sure there are converts on both ends but most adopt the faith of their upbringing. On the other side of the globe there's a billion Muslims saying they're all going to Hell and all of it is based on blind faith in a God that plays guessing games on your eternal damnation or salvation by making you pick "the right" faith in a world with many and no proof to back any of them save for their own written records. If you assume Christianity is correct then it's hard not to draw the conclusion that an all knowing God knew who would believe and who would not and then created non believers for the inevitable outcome of tossing them into Hell. Faith is just that and a person can fall down on their knees and profess it verbally but still in their heart know they don't believe and therefore still fall short of salvation per the rules. One cannot force oneself to believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gifhttp://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gif I feel bad that god has doomed 70% of the WORLDS population to hell. Well I take that back even more perhaps , Jehovah's witness , Mormons , ? Will they be allowed in heaven? God hasn't doomed anyone. People doom themselves. I know personal accountability isn't fashionable these days ... I disagree, you posit your god created us and gave us free will, knowing none of us will ever be perfect. Then if we don't believe in him with no evidence (he gave us a mind that questions and seeks truths backed by facts) he created Hell to toss us in. Your god doomed you from the start and knew it. He did not doom you or me to hell, because there is no such place (though some places I have been in this world sure come close to the descriptions). I still contend that religion is based on upbringing and geography for most of the faithful and suggest that most Christians here would be Muslims had they been born in Saudi Arabia or Hindus had they been born in India. Sure there are converts on both ends but most adopt the faith of their upbringing. On the other side of the globe there's a billion Muslims saying they're all going to Hell and all of it is based on blind faith in a God that plays guessing games on your eternal damnation or salvation by making you pick "the right" faith in a world with many and no proof to back any of them save for their own written records. If you assume Christianity is correct then it's hard not to draw the conclusion that an all knowing God knew who would believe and who would not and then created non believers for the inevitable outcome of tossing them into Hell. Faith is just that and a person can fall down on their knees and profess it verbally but still in their heart know they don't believe and therefore still fall short of salvation per the rules. One cannot force oneself to believe. This is the part they refuse to accept. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 6:45:47 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the part they refuse to accept. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gifhttp://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gif I feel bad that god has doomed 70% of the WORLDS population to hell. Well I take that back even more perhaps , Jehovah's witness , Mormons , ? Will they be allowed in heaven? God hasn't doomed anyone. People doom themselves. I know personal accountability isn't fashionable these days ... I disagree, you posit your god created us and gave us free will, knowing none of us will ever be perfect. Then if we don't believe in him with no evidence (he gave us a mind that questions and seeks truths backed by facts) he created Hell to toss us in. Your god doomed you from the start and knew it. He did not doom you or me to hell, because there is no such place (though some places I have been in this world sure come close to the descriptions). I still contend that religion is based on upbringing and geography for most of the faithful and suggest that most Christians here would be Muslims had they been born in Saudi Arabia or Hindus had they been born in India. Sure there are converts on both ends but most adopt the faith of their upbringing. On the other side of the globe there's a billion Muslims saying they're all going to Hell and all of it is based on blind faith in a God that plays guessing games on your eternal damnation or salvation by making you pick "the right" faith in a world with many and no proof to back any of them save for their own written records. If you assume Christianity is correct then it's hard not to draw the conclusion that an all knowing God knew who would believe and who would not and then created non believers for the inevitable outcome of tossing them into Hell. Faith is just that and a person can fall down on their knees and profess it verbally but still in their heart know they don't believe and therefore still fall short of salvation per the rules. One cannot force oneself to believe. This is the part they refuse to accept. You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:00:25 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can someone please cut and paste some scripture? It's a great fallback when this subject hits bottom.....and it always does. David rose up and went, he and his men, and struck down two hundred men among the Philistines. Then David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full number to the king, that he might become the king's son-in-law. So Saul gave him Michal his daughter for a wife. Hmmm, I wonder if they were cooked up like calamari or turned into some jerky. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:03:03 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
David rose up and went, he and his men, and struck down two hundred men among the Philistines. Then David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full number to the king, that he might become the king's son-in-law. So Saul gave him Michal his daughter for a wife. Hmmm, I wonder if they were cooked up like calamari or turned into some jerky. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can someone please cut and paste some scripture? It's a great fallback when this subject hits bottom.....and it always does. David rose up and went, he and his men, and struck down two hundred men among the Philistines. Then David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full number to the king, that he might become the king's son-in-law. So Saul gave him Michal his daughter for a wife. Hmmm, I wonder if they were cooked up like calamari or turned into some jerky. Coin purses that turn into suitcases when you kiss them. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:04:56 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Yep. When Charles Ponzi was in jail, there were people standing outside protesting that he would certainly make good on all his debts, if the government would only believe. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:06:24 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any actual physical evidence? Only of the bovine excrement variety. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:16:05 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:22:26 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. I saw lots of people with similar experiences. Of course, that was the 60s and LSD was plentiful, so you know they were real. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:23:11 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. Well try harder dammit! 
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:25:51 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well try harder dammit! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. Well try harder dammit! The last guy I knew who had any LSD moved out more than ten years ago. Where do you get yours? |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:29:13 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well try harder dammit! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. Well try harder dammit! Lol...nah...I'm good. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:31:47 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryI have seen a lot of similar stories. They all turned out pretty much the same five or ten years down the line. If it was really God then it was plain he was just fucking with them. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:37:09 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are either going to stand before God immediately upon your death....or you are going to stand before God at the end of the age... Maybe both...but we will all be judged one day by God for what we have done in this life He gave us... Acceptance of or denial of God's great gift of salvation through His son Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to be approved rather than rejected at the judgment we will all someday face. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did he say when? You are either going to stand before God immediately upon your death....or you are going to stand before God at the end of the age... Maybe both...but we will all be judged one day by God for what we have done in this life He gave us... Acceptance of or denial of God's great gift of salvation through His son Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to be approved rather than rejected at the judgment we will all someday face. Muslims say something similar about Allah and Mohammad. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:45:40 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw lots of people with similar experiences. Of course, that was the 60s and LSD was plentiful, so you know they were real. Slightly off topic, but it's no surprise people 'see things' on LSD. The Imperial College London recently did brain scans of people on LSD and you can clearly see how the whole brain gets lit up http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/brain-on-acid/ 
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Posted: 5/3/2016 7:56:18 PM EST
[#21]
Would you believe I've never had a drop of alcohol or illegal drugs in my life. Some might say that's the problem...
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:02:16 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:05:42 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. So you assume. I got rather long winded before but I've already answered this claim in this thread. Re-read it if interested. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:12:59 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. I believe that one day you will see yourself clearly, and know that is a lie. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:21:15 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I said that is the very beginning of spiritual knowledge. What a person does after that is often look to other's (religion's) experiences to continue to learn. All religions have elements of truth in them. Truth is confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker by the power of the Holy Ghost regardless of what religion they follow. Truth is Truth. The residue of false traditions can rightly be ascribed to the truth of men, sometimes well meaning sometimes not, being mixed in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I said that is the very beginning of spiritual knowledge. What a person does after that is often look to other's (religion's) experiences to continue to learn. All religions have elements of truth in them. Truth is confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker by the power of the Holy Ghost regardless of what religion they follow. Truth is Truth. The residue of false traditions can rightly be ascribed to the truth of men, sometimes well meaning sometimes not, being mixed in. Either it's Jesus or Mohammed or Krishna or Buddha or it isn't. You could burn in hell forever if you don't follow the correct one. As heinous a thing as child rape is, (I have children myself and could not imagine the murderous rage I would be in were someone to hurt my children, God can heal those wounded children, whether in this life or the next. Very often the offender was themselves abused as a child. Only God can judge us in the context of the cards we've been dealt in life. Part of the process of gaining spiritual knowledge is learning to trust in God. It is difficult for me to imagine that the pain and suffering endured on this Earth could be worth the plan to put us here, but I trust God that it is. Any God that watches child rape and does nothing (while having the power to stop it) is an evil God. It doesn't matter if he can "heal them" afterwards. He watches children get raped, fully capable of stopping it, while he goes and cures Grandma's kneepain. As when a soul searches for a supreme being that supreme being may respond. All religions have elements of truth in them. Truth is confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker by the power of the Holy Ghost regardless of what religion they follow. Truth is Truth. The residue of false traditions can rightly be ascribed to the truth of men, sometimes well meaning sometimes not, being mixed in. And those supreme beings mutually contradict eachother. Truth is not "confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker". Something is true or it isn't. What people believe is inconsequential to the truth. Have you sought Kirshna? Humbly? Have you sought Odin? Humbly? Have you sought invisible pink leprechauns? Humbly? |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:24:36 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. I honestly don't think you have moved on or you would not be in each and every thread about Christianity. You don't believe, we get it. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:24:46 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would suggest to you that reading the Bible and researching other religions is not sufficient to gain a knowledge of truth. You actually have to exercise faith by taking a precept or principle of truth and live it. Experiment upon the words of God, live them in your life and notice what they do. You may not have evidence of their benefit for yourself at first, though some do have powerful initial experiences. This must be gained like muscles in the body. I can teach you how to gain those muscles, you can read books on gaining those muscles but you will not gain them until you first have faith that the principles of muscle building will work, and then implement them into your life and live them, indeed work hard day after day, week after week, month after month only seeing small results at first, then looking back and seeing the transformation. Then you receive the reward of that faith...strong muscles. You don't get to read the book, and then magically have the muscle first to try them out before you do the work to gain them.This is how God works my friend. Just because something gives you the conclusions you want doesn't make it true. One should be especially skeptical of believing things because the conclusions are nice/what you want. One could enter hypnosis, believe that invisible leprechauns are draining away their depression and they will leave feeling less depressed. That has nothing to do with the validity of invisible leprechauns and more to do with the brain. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:27:48 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe that one day you will see yourself clearly, and know that is a lie. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. I believe that one day you will see yourself clearly, and know that is a lie. You don't think that people of other religions have "spiritual" experiences that they claim as evidence? You need to seek Krishna, humbly. Don't believe still? You need to seek Krishna even more humbly. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:43:14 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't think that people of other religions have "spiritual" experiences that they claim as evidence? You need to seek Krishna, humbly. Don't believe still? You need to seek Krishna even more humbly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. I believe that one day you will see yourself clearly, and know that is a lie. You don't think that people of other religions have "spiritual" experiences that they claim as evidence? You need to seek Krishna, humbly. Don't believe still? You need to seek Krishna even more humbly. Time for a "Why doesn't Krishna reveal himself to everyone?" thread. He does. But many people are just too blind and willful to see it. They really believe in Krishna, but they are scared and rebellious (because Krishna gave them free will) so they try to deny it. The more they try to deny it, the more they really believe. I know it's true. Krishna told me. And . . . . . GO! |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:48:22 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I honestly don't think you have moved on or you would not be in each and every thread about Christianity. You don't believe, we get it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. I honestly don't think you have moved on or you would not be in each and every thread about Christianity. You don't believe, we get it. You can think whatever you like. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 8:59:20 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Either it's Jesus or Mohammed or Krishna or Buddha or it isn't. You could burn in hell forever if you don't follow the correct one. No it's not, and you don't know what you're talking about. I lived among Buddhists, went to their services. They know nothing like, nor claim to know the power of the Holy Ghost. It is not in their faith, yet they experience it when they act in principles of truth found within their faith. This is the same for any faith with elements of truth. The residue are the precepts of men and are false, but you can only discern that by spiritual means. Any God that watches child rape and does nothing (while having the power to stop it) is an evil God. It doesn't matter if he can "heal them" afterwards. He watches children get raped, fully capable of stopping it, while he goes and cures Grandma's kneepain. Yes, you've already said this. Your insistence on this point merely demonstrates your lack of knowledge, faith and trust. Like you only see what you think is in front of your face, but the irony is that as you trust your eyes you're nearly completely blind to things as they really are. And those supreme beings mutually contradict eachother. Truth is not "confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker". Something is true or it isn't. What people believe is inconsequential to the truth. Your last sentence hear I agree with, and you have no proof besides your own lack of experience that the truth 'is not confirmed in the hearts and minds of the seeker'. I have experienced it, and so have millions of others. Have you sought Kirshna? Humbly? Krishna does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost Have you sought Odin? Humbly? Odin does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost Have you sought invisible pink leprechauns? Humbly? The green spaghetti monster does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As I said that is the very beginning of spiritual knowledge. What a person does after that is often look to other's (religion's) experiences to continue to learn. All religions have elements of truth in them. Truth is confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker by the power of the Holy Ghost regardless of what religion they follow. Truth is Truth. The residue of false traditions can rightly be ascribed to the truth of men, sometimes well meaning sometimes not, being mixed in. Either it's Jesus or Mohammed or Krishna or Buddha or it isn't. You could burn in hell forever if you don't follow the correct one. No it's not, and you don't know what you're talking about. I lived among Buddhists, went to their services. They know nothing like, nor claim to know the power of the Holy Ghost. It is not in their faith, yet they experience it when they act in principles of truth found within their faith. This is the same for any faith with elements of truth. The residue are the precepts of men and are false, but you can only discern that by spiritual means. As heinous a thing as child rape is, (I have children myself and could not imagine the murderous rage I would be in were someone to hurt my children, God can heal those wounded children, whether in this life or the next. Very often the offender was themselves abused as a child. Only God can judge us in the context of the cards we've been dealt in life. Part of the process of gaining spiritual knowledge is learning to trust in God. It is difficult for me to imagine that the pain and suffering endured on this Earth could be worth the plan to put us here, but I trust God that it is. Any God that watches child rape and does nothing (while having the power to stop it) is an evil God. It doesn't matter if he can "heal them" afterwards. He watches children get raped, fully capable of stopping it, while he goes and cures Grandma's kneepain. Yes, you've already said this. Your insistence on this point merely demonstrates your lack of knowledge, faith and trust. Like you only see what you think is in front of your face, but the irony is that as you trust your eyes you're nearly completely blind to things as they really are. As when a soul searches for a supreme being that supreme being may respond. All religions have elements of truth in them. Truth is confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker by the power of the Holy Ghost regardless of what religion they follow. Truth is Truth. The residue of false traditions can rightly be ascribed to the truth of men, sometimes well meaning sometimes not, being mixed in. And those supreme beings mutually contradict eachother. Truth is not "confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker". Something is true or it isn't. What people believe is inconsequential to the truth. Your last sentence hear I agree with, and you have no proof besides your own lack of experience that the truth 'is not confirmed in the hearts and minds of the seeker'. I have experienced it, and so have millions of others. Have you sought Kirshna? Humbly? Krishna does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost Have you sought Odin? Humbly? Odin does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost Have you sought invisible pink leprechauns? Humbly? The green spaghetti monster does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost. Flywire55, it's really very simple, but you cannot understand it, because you're unwilling to do what is necessary to understand it. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:02:39 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just because something gives you the conclusions you want doesn't make it true. One should be especially skeptical of believing things because the conclusions are nice/what you want. One could enter hypnosis, believe that invisible leprechauns are draining away their depression and they will leave feeling less depressed. That has nothing to do with the validity of invisible leprechauns and more to do with the brain. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would suggest to you that reading the Bible and researching other religions is not sufficient to gain a knowledge of truth. You actually have to exercise faith by taking a precept or principle of truth and live it. Experiment upon the words of God, live them in your life and notice what they do. You may not have evidence of their benefit for yourself at first, though some do have powerful initial experiences. This must be gained like muscles in the body. I can teach you how to gain those muscles, you can read books on gaining those muscles but you will not gain them until you first have faith that the principles of muscle building will work, and then implement them into your life and live them, indeed work hard day after day, week after week, month after month only seeing small results at first, then looking back and seeing the transformation. Then you receive the reward of that faith...strong muscles. You don't get to read the book, and then magically have the muscle first to try them out before you do the work to gain them.This is how God works my friend. Just because something gives you the conclusions you want doesn't make it true. One should be especially skeptical of believing things because the conclusions are nice/what you want. One could enter hypnosis, believe that invisible leprechauns are draining away their depression and they will leave feeling less depressed. That has nothing to do with the validity of invisible leprechauns and more to do with the brain. These statements are complete strawman lunacy compared to the thousands of experiences I've had, not under hypnosis. You're making assumptions about my spiritual experiences that you cannot possibly comprehend and trying to defeat your conception of what you think they are. Why are you so desperate to deny that God has given a method for us to know truth? |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:04:43 PM EST
[#33]
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Time for a "Why doesn't Krishna reveal himself to everyone?" thread. He does. But many people are just too blind and willful to see it. They really believe in Krishna, but they are scared and rebellious (because Krishna gave them free will) so they try to deny it. The more they try to deny it, the more they really believe. I know it's true. Krishna told me. And . . . . . GO! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. People are willing to believe ... if there was good evidence for it. There isn't. Your "spiritual evidence" is the same "spiritual evidence" that other contradictory religions claim. I believe that one day you will see yourself clearly, and know that is a lie. You don't think that people of other religions have "spiritual" experiences that they claim as evidence? You need to seek Krishna, humbly. Don't believe still? You need to seek Krishna even more humbly. Time for a "Why doesn't Krishna reveal himself to everyone?" thread. He does. But many people are just too blind and willful to see it. They really believe in Krishna, but they are scared and rebellious (because Krishna gave them free will) so they try to deny it. The more they try to deny it, the more they really believe. I know it's true. Krishna told me. And . . . . . GO! Then Shiva shows up at the end, and WHAM!! |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:05:01 PM EST
[#34]
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:05:18 PM EST
[#35]
You guys know he's nuts, right?
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:10:34 PM EST
[#36]
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You can think whatever you like. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. I honestly don't think you have moved on or you would not be in each and every thread about Christianity. You don't believe, we get it. You can think whatever you like. So can you--right up until you stand before God. You think that'll never happen. OK. I hope it works out for you. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:17:22 PM EST
[#37]
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So can you--right up until you stand before God. You think that'll never happen. OK. I hope it works out for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't need to force yourself to believe you need to be willing to believe, desire to believe and then do what is necessary to gain the evidence of things not seen, tasted, touched, smelled, or heard. Many of us tried that. Nothing happened. We moved on. I honestly don't think you have moved on or you would not be in each and every thread about Christianity. You don't believe, we get it. You can think whatever you like. So can you--right up until you stand before God. You think that'll never happen. OK. I hope it works out for you. I like my chances. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:23:46 PM EST
[#38]
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You guys know he's nuts, right? The world is full of them |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:27:30 PM EST
[#39]
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These statements are complete strawman lunacy compared to the thousands of experiences I've had, not under hypnosis. You're making assumptions about my spiritual experiences that you cannot possibly comprehend and trying to defeat your conception of what you think they are. Why are you so desperate to deny that God has given a method for us to know truth? I am not desperate to deny anything, including unicorns and leprechauns. It is no skin off my nose if they exist or don't. As a matter of fact, I wish some of these things did exist, just for the entertainment value. It is just that I have seen lots of similar stories before and they all turned to be bullshit. From the experiences I have seen that are like the one shown in the OP, they are often (if not usually) explained by mental illness which becomes much clearer as time goes on. In general, the more extreme one's devotion to religion, the more likely the mental illness -- and that applies across the board to all religions. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:28:51 PM EST
[#40]
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So can you--right up until you stand before God. You think that'll never happen. OK. I hope it works out for you. Yeah, like HitmanMonkey, I am not really worried. Sorry if your religious beliefs don't allow you to grasp that, but it is true. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:40:25 PM EST
[#41]
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Yeah, like HitmanMonkey, I am not really worried. Sorry if your religious beliefs don't allow you to grasp that, but it is true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So can you--right up until you stand before God. You think that'll never happen. OK. I hope it works out for you. Yeah, like HitmanMonkey, I am not really worried. Sorry if your religious beliefs don't allow you to grasp that, but it is true. I grasp it just fine, it doesn't bother me one bit that you don't believe . What interesting is that it bothers you what other people believe. You have to come in every one of these threads and troll like crazy, what's your story? are you mad that your parents made you go to church every time the doors were open? I have met several guys like that and they are very angry people. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:44:12 PM EST
[#42]
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I grasp it just fine, it doesn't bother me one bit that you don't believe . What interesting is that it bothers you what other people believe. You have to come in every one of these threads and troll like crazy, what's your story? are you mad that your parents made you go to church every time the doors were open? I have met several guys like that and they are very angry people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So can you--right up until you stand before God. You think that'll never happen. OK. I hope it works out for you. Yeah, like HitmanMonkey, I am not really worried. Sorry if your religious beliefs don't allow you to grasp that, but it is true. I grasp it just fine, it doesn't bother me one bit that you don't believe . What interesting is that it bothers you what other people believe. You have to come in every one of these threads and troll like crazy, what's your story? are you mad that your parents made you go to church every time the doors were open? I have met several guys like that and they are very angry people. You guys love dumb assumptions, don't you? No, my parents didn't make me go to church. I went to Bible School one year and even at my tender elementary school age it was quite clear that whenever they came to a tough question they would just make up whatever BS reassured them. Then, if you pointed out obvious BS, they would say (just like the folks here) that you have to abandon all your thinking faculties, because that's what God wants. That was way before Jim Jones and it still didn't sound right. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:47:39 PM EST
[#43]
Life's too short to waste it on nonsense like religion.
Unless it makes you happy, I guess. Just keep your hands off my happiness and I'll continue to sleep in on Sunday. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:49:34 PM EST
[#44]
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I am not desperate to deny anything, including unicorns and leprechauns. It is no skin off my nose if they exist or don't. As a matter of fact, I wish some of these things did exist, just for the entertainment value. It is just that I have seen lots of similar stories before and they all turned to be bullshit. From the experiences I have seen that are like the one shown in the OP, they are often (if not usually) explained by mental illness which becomes much clearer as time goes on. In general, the more extreme one's devotion to religion, the more likely the mental illness -- and that applies across the board to all religions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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These statements are complete strawman lunacy compared to the thousands of experiences I've had, not under hypnosis. You're making assumptions about my spiritual experiences that you cannot possibly comprehend and trying to defeat your conception of what you think they are. Why are you so desperate to deny that God has given a method for us to know truth? I am not desperate to deny anything, including unicorns and leprechauns. It is no skin off my nose if they exist or don't. As a matter of fact, I wish some of these things did exist, just for the entertainment value. It is just that I have seen lots of similar stories before and they all turned to be bullshit. From the experiences I have seen that are like the one shown in the OP, they are often (if not usually) explained by mental illness which becomes much clearer as time goes on. In general, the more extreme one's devotion to religion, the more likely the mental illness -- and that applies across the board to all religions. If it makes you feel any better and it probably won't, I agree the guy in the video is having an experience that is not from God. Spiritual experiences can be had that are not from God but from spirits. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:52:01 PM EST
[#45]
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Flywire55, it's really very simple, but you cannot understand it, because you're unwilling to do what is necessary to understand it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As I said that is the very beginning of spiritual knowledge. What a person does after that is often look to other's (religion's) experiences to continue to learn. All religions have elements of truth in them. Truth is confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker by the power of the Holy Ghost regardless of what religion they follow. Truth is Truth. The residue of false traditions can rightly be ascribed to the truth of men, sometimes well meaning sometimes not, being mixed in. Either it's Jesus or Mohammed or Krishna or Buddha or it isn't. You could burn in hell forever if you don't follow the correct one. No it's not, and you don't know what you're talking about. I lived among Buddhists, went to their services. They know nothing like, nor claim to know the power of the Holy Ghost. It is not in their faith, yet they experience it when they act in principles of truth found within their faith. This is the same for any faith with elements of truth. The residue are the precepts of men and are false, but you can only discern that by spiritual means. As heinous a thing as child rape is, (I have children myself and could not imagine the murderous rage I would be in were someone to hurt my children, God can heal those wounded children, whether in this life or the next. Very often the offender was themselves abused as a child. Only God can judge us in the context of the cards we've been dealt in life. Part of the process of gaining spiritual knowledge is learning to trust in God. It is difficult for me to imagine that the pain and suffering endured on this Earth could be worth the plan to put us here, but I trust God that it is. Any God that watches child rape and does nothing (while having the power to stop it) is an evil God. It doesn't matter if he can "heal them" afterwards. He watches children get raped, fully capable of stopping it, while he goes and cures Grandma's kneepain. Yes, you've already said this. Your insistence on this point merely demonstrates your lack of knowledge, faith and trust. Like you only see what you think is in front of your face, but the irony is that as you trust your eyes you're nearly completely blind to things as they really are. As when a soul searches for a supreme being that supreme being may respond. All religions have elements of truth in them. Truth is confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker by the power of the Holy Ghost regardless of what religion they follow. Truth is Truth. The residue of false traditions can rightly be ascribed to the truth of men, sometimes well meaning sometimes not, being mixed in. And those supreme beings mutually contradict eachother. Truth is not "confirmed in the hearts and minds of the humble seeker". Something is true or it isn't. What people believe is inconsequential to the truth. Your last sentence hear I agree with, and you have no proof besides your own lack of experience that the truth 'is not confirmed in the hearts and minds of the seeker'. I have experienced it, and so have millions of others. Have you sought Kirshna? Humbly? Krishna does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost Have you sought Odin? Humbly? Odin does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost Have you sought invisible pink leprechauns? Humbly? The green spaghetti monster does not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost. Flywire55, it's really very simple, but you cannot understand it, because you're unwilling to do what is necessary to understand it. It's obvious that Shiva has deceived you with lies about a Holy Ghost. You should seek Krishna, humbly. If you don't believe in Krishna, you need to seek him more humbly. It's really very simple, but you cannot understand it, because you're unwilling to do what is necessary to understand it. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:55:31 PM EST
[#46]
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Can someone please cut and paste some scripture? It's a great fallback when this subject hits bottom.....and it always does. Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. :^) |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 9:59:34 PM EST
[#47]
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If it makes you feel any better and it probably won't, I agree the guy in the video is having an experience that is not from God. Spiritual experiences can be had that are not from God but from spirits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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These statements are complete strawman lunacy compared to the thousands of experiences I've had, not under hypnosis. You're making assumptions about my spiritual experiences that you cannot possibly comprehend and trying to defeat your conception of what you think they are. Why are you so desperate to deny that God has given a method for us to know truth? I am not desperate to deny anything, including unicorns and leprechauns. It is no skin off my nose if they exist or don't. As a matter of fact, I wish some of these things did exist, just for the entertainment value. It is just that I have seen lots of similar stories before and they all turned to be bullshit. From the experiences I have seen that are like the one shown in the OP, they are often (if not usually) explained by mental illness which becomes much clearer as time goes on. In general, the more extreme one's devotion to religion, the more likely the mental illness -- and that applies across the board to all religions. If it makes you feel any better and it probably won't, I agree the guy in the video is having an experience that is not from God. Spiritual experiences can be had that are not from God but from spirits. Yeah, that doesn't really make me feel any better. Mental illness is real. "Spirits" are not. As a matter of fact, lots of psychological exams ask about one's belief in spirits as a way to detect mental illness. In my experience, the more a person believes in spirits, the more likely it is that they have some obvious mental illness that wouldn't even take a doctor's education to see. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 10:01:23 PM EST
[#48]
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Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. :^) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can someone please cut and paste some scripture? It's a great fallback when this subject hits bottom.....and it always does. Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. :^) A tip: For anyone who doesn't believe as you do, that is just taken as a sign that your brain has shut down and all you can do is mindlessly regurgitate random irrelevant Bible verses. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 10:38:07 PM EST
[#49]
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It's obvious that Shiva has deceived you with lies about a Holy Ghost. You should seek Krishna, humbly. If you don't believe in Krishna, you need to seek him more humbly. It's really very simple, but you cannot understand it, because you're unwilling to do what is necessary to understand it. I've explained this to you, and will not rehash it. Whether you accept these answers or not (it's clear you do not) they are still true. I'm out. Good luck. |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 11:04:54 PM EST
[#50]
I
am tory between the Sect of the Sandal and the Sect of the Gourd |
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