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Posted: 4/6/2021 5:08:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no idea what is going on inside my 911. Some dark and arcane magic that is not meant to be understood by mere mortals like myself. I find it hilarious that when you open the "engine compartment" as the driver/owner of the vehicle, you basically get ZERO access to actual engine components. It's like Porsche wants to emphasize that they believe you are too stupid to be allowed access, and don't trust you.  |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 5:18:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mercedes Saab - great compromise  For a long time, the Germans resisted the idea of having cup holders - Felt that they didn't belong in an automobile. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 7:24:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Observe the beauty and simplicity of the Chevy LS V8 engine. Compact, powerful, available everywhere! The choice for hot rodders everywhere. You can probably get parts for this in the middle of Yemen and some dude riding in on a camel could repair it. http://assets.superchevy.com/f/61898858.jpg Now, observe an Audi DOHC V8. Whatever German who had been reading his own press about German efficiency and then designed this monstrosity should be kicked in the nuts repeatedly and then have a VW carved on his forehead like the Inglorious Basterd that he is. Look at that thing. It's horrible. It should come with a warning like a Nintendo, letting you know that prolonged viewing can cause seizures and a desire to invade Poland. https://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/automotive/212068d1561052770-does-your-car-have-timing-belt-9260e79a-54c9-49ea-8949-eab7da12748c.jpeg German efficiency is highly overrated. Whenever someone says that phrase, substitute it with German Complexity and you'll have the correct idea. I owned a BMW with a V8 for 9 years, all out of warranty. So yes, I have thoughts on this. A total misunderstanding of why. That engine also fits in places designed for a 3.0v6 and 2.0 4cyl. The chain system does several things, the first chain you see at the bottom runs a PTO, the pto drives a ps pump and ac compressor tucked under the block on the bank 2 side. This left room for the alternator on bank 1. It ment a shorter, stubbier belt system that allows the engine to use less space. The chains on the back also allows the chains to use a stronger but noiser design which, since its wedged between the block and trans you dont hear them. Using multiple chains increases chain life over one big long chain. Ill be absolutly honest with you the only times ive replaced them was on poorly maintained vehicles.. One had a oil bottle seal stuck to the pick up tube which reduced pressure till the guides broke. One, break down what you see and its not that complex and it makes sense out side of "durr hurr ls hurr" I bet theres probably only 3-4 other arfcommers other than myself that have even replaced those chains. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 7:54:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MK5 FSI. not MK6. MK6 was TSI, air box to the side 6 torx screws. that FSI airbox is a pain in the ass. but its a 40k mile interval same as the spark plugs so no big deal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My mk6 Golf was the epitome of this. To change the air filter in most cars it's a matter of flipping a couple of clips and removing the top of the filter box...easy and literally a 5 minute job. Not so für ze Golf... because Klaus and Dieter decided to locate the air filter UNDER the engine cover. First, find a T20 driver to remove the air intake hose (two screws) from the housing by the grille. Then get some channel locks or other wide pliers to compress the hose clamp on the other air hose and remove that hose by the engine cover. Then remove the engine cover and turn it upside down. Locate the five (5) screws holding the air filter cover in place. Remove the screws, better to use a power drill/driver as the screws are long. Finally, replace air filter and re-attach everything. Give yourself at least 30 minutes. MK5 FSI. not MK6. MK6 was TSI, air box to the side 6 torx screws. that FSI airbox is a pain in the ass. but its a 40k mile interval same as the spark plugs so no big deal. Wrong. I think I know what car I had and drove for 10.5 years. It was a mk6 with the 2.5 inline 5. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk6 |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 8:59:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. I think I know what car I had and drove for 10.5 years. It was a mk6 with the 2.5 inline 5. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk6 I was thinking GTI. I forgot people actually bought the 2.5  those 2.5 covers were not too bad. the FSI covers were fucking horrible. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:16:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no idea what is going on inside my 911. Some dark and arcane magic that is not meant to be understood by mere mortals like myself. I find it hilarious that when you open the “engine compartment” as the driver/owner of the vehicle, you basically get ZERO access to actual engine components. It’s like Porsche wants to emphasize that they believe you are too stupid to be allowed access, and don’t trust you. AGREED! I Pulled open the hood to lay my mortal eyes upon such Teutonic Techno Wizardry & Magic of the 911... I scrambled all around leaning over the bumper & front fenders - NO ENGINE under the Hood!! Clearly the Dark Arts & Witchcraft are involved. Imagine my shock to find that the 911 is driven to such dizzying speeds by nothing less than the howling ghost of Dr. Porsche...  |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:25:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: that's where the tesseract goes. 
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:29:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Cup holders are an after thought on German cars.
  
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:32:24 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a long time, the Germans resisted the idea of having cup holders - Felt that they didn't belong in an automobile. German car engineer when asked to add a cup holder to their Porsche/BMW/Audi/Mercedes design for the American market. “Do their coffee tables have a steering wheel?” |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:35:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cup holders are an after thought on German cars. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/A6AAAOSwxlBeRENO/s-l640.jpg https://www.autoguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/bmw-cup-holder.jpg https://th.bing.com/th/id/Rd536ff437494139c70a6d67e57999d3f?rik=WX9AepZ4nhhyAw&riu=http%3a%2f%2fimages.thetruthaboutcars.com%2f2013%2f06%2f2013-BMW-X1-xDrive28i-Interior-002.jpg&ehk=Qgyikjw3hs2AGw8%2bw1ELD7Yqlh3krQOAzffKtE0HI%2fg%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw @OUSooner I am torn between putting you on my ignore list or asking where you got that. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:37:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: are Danes a Germanic people..? The Dutch are sometimes referred to as Swamp Germans and the Germans as Mountain Dutch |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:38:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No But Germany is a Dutchland! |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:39:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: On the plus side, they would be the finest quality ball bearings to ever be utilized on a ball bat, but you would probably have to check their tolerances every 100 at bats. Fag! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18716/8A1AFAB0-FC74-4C50-A044-F6A701A3A447-1893513.jpg Not that there's anything wrong with that |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:44:01 AM EDT
[#14]
The saying goes something like what self respecting German engineer would use 3 screws when 8 to 12 would suffice?
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:45:19 AM EDT
[#15]
The problem with the Germans is this: Someone could commission them to build a handbasket for a ride to Hell and they would expend every effort in its creation without asking if building a handbasket to Hell is a good idea.
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:47:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. WTF is their love of ball joints all about? And wheel bolts vs studs and nuts... And the 10" long starter bolt that screws through two different threaded holes on the VW tdi diesels... Quote HistoryQuoted: This. WTF is their love of ball joints all about? And wheel bolts vs studs and nuts... And the 10" long starter bolt that screws through two different threaded holes on the VW tdi diesels... All those links position the tire contact patch in an optimized way throughout the travel of the suspension. The rest I am scratching my head at, too.
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:55:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Mercedes W124 4matic front suspension.
 Attached File Attached FileI'm shocked ze German engineers didn't create a complicated mess of right angle portal gearing or something. Nope, we'll just stretch the spring to clear the axle. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:57:38 AM EDT
[#18]
The products of German engineering teams are designed to live within a German maintenance ecosystem. Once they leave that, all bets are off.
Your typical Rolf Zwei-Stein is not going to tune up his car, where Joe Six-Pack just might. I worked with Germans and Swiss-Germans for years. They like to have someone that knows what they are doing work on almost anything, and that level of competence is not terribly variable to them. They used to be a little horrified about my habit of "Do it by your own" on auto repairs, home repair, and even painting the house. If your customer base is used to having highly trained people with specialized tools working on stuff, you can kind of design to that, and build what you think is best. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:02:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: German perfection: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/319389/036A22D2-860D-4BC9-8B83-E73DB8DBD283_png-1893347.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Discuss. @DK-Prof German perfection: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/319389/036A22D2-860D-4BC9-8B83-E73DB8DBD283_png-1893347.JPG Meh. Their 4 stroke string trimmers still have to run on a mix of gas and 2 cycle oil. My Husqvarna with the 4 stroke 25cc Honda engine > my dad's Stihl 4Mix smoke and fume generator with string trimming accessory |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:03:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All those links position the tire contact patch in an optimized way throughout the travel of the suspension. The rest I am scratching my head at, too. partially because its just a drawing, but multi link suspension does a great job of keeping contact while the suspension compresses, they also keep the toe at a constant rate so the vehicle does not pull (as much) while either extending down (pot hole) or compressing on one side (bump) the unfortunate part is most alignment shops neglect the raised toe setting when doing an alignment. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:04:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Discuss. @DK-Prof but DK-Prof is not German why would you not ask @Zhukov ? |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:08:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @OUSooner I am torn between putting you on my ignore list or asking where you got that. LOL that is straight out of my daughters 2015 BMW X1. When you remove the cup holder there is actually a place to keep in in the center console. But I can't ride in the passenger seat when she is using that thing as my leg hits it. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:13:53 AM EDT
[#23]
I have little to contribute, but as a former (and perhaps future) trapshooter, I offer:
Perazzi trigger:  Krieghoff trigger:  |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:26:26 AM EDT
[#24]
 Footage – 918 Spyder manufactory: behind-the-scenes Was looking for an equivalent video for an American car builder and all that came up was this:  Hilarious orangutan does everything to get his friends attention |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:29:47 AM EDT
[#25]
I do not understand the fascination with German engineering. Their engineering is absolute shit. I've owned enough BMW's and worked on enough Audi's, VW's and Mercedes with buddies to have seen this up close.
everything is overly complex, and often fragile. Japanese and American engineering I think is generally better. They get to the same solutions but often in a simpler way. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:38:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At least for guns, the MK23 speaks for itself. SOCOM comes up with a feature wishlist for OHWS, some of which sound ridiculous and borderline physically impossible, and they don't really care about the cost. - Most manufacturers just go "nope" right off the bat - Colt makes a half-hearted attempt and ticks like half the boxes - Krauts at H&K say, "You don't care what it costs? Ausgezeichtnet, give us a few months" and produce the indestructible wish pistol with a price four times that of a normal pistol. A pistol the size of a big-ass magnum revolver, capable of 30K+ service life with zero breakages, and insane accuracy of 1 inch or less at 25 yards after endurance testing. If it wasn’t ungodly huge, that thing would be damn near perfect. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:50:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The products of German engineering teams are designed to live within a German maintenance ecosystem. Once they leave that, all bets are off. Your typical Rolf Zwei-Stein is not going to tune up his car, where Joe Six-Pack just might. I worked with Germans and Swiss-Germans for years. They like to have someone that knows what they are doing work on almost anything, and that level of competence is not terribly variable to them. They used to be a little horrified about my habit of "Do it by your own" on auto repairs, home repair, and even painting the house. If your customer base is used to having highly trained people with specialized tools working on stuff, you can kind of design to that, and build what you think is best. Good explanation, and what I was trying to hit at. Someone posted about their pistol grips requiring a special wrench no normal human would possess. That's not an accident, the manufacturer doesn't want you taking your pistol apart. It's the exact reason I don't buy off the EE...the average shade tree mechanic is a train wreck looking for a trestle to "improve". BTW, read the instructions for a Browning pump shotgun. Same thing, and a BPS for run for decades with a basic washout, but there are multiple vids that have to explain how to reassemble your pump because "I field strip all mah guns". |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:50:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but DK-Prof is not German why would you not ask @Zhukov ? WHAT IN THE WIDE, WIDE, WORLD OF SPORTS IS GOING ON IN THIS THREAD? 
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Posted: 4/6/2021 11:17:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When it comes to mechanical engineering contrivances...I stick to the notion that those who truly understand it can make it simple. If something lacks complexity and works really well, the designer understood the problem and solution really well. Complexity is not inherently a sign of superior design. All of this. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 11:18:10 AM EDT
[#30]
 Attached FileI want a rifle that is the same size and weight as the bolt-action K98k, and chambered for the same cartridge. But it has to be select-fire. And reasonably controllable in full-auto. And it has to have a bipod. And it has to fire from open-bolt on full auto, and closed bolt on semi. Oh, yeah - and it has to have a bayonet. Any kind will do. Impossible set of requirements, and yet, they did it. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 12:39:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but DK-Prof is not German why would you not ask @Zhukov ? Eh, he's Dutch, close enuf.
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Posted: 4/6/2021 12:48:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their design, machining, steel and heat treating is world class. Their printing equipment doesn't suck. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThSRfoikBtcUCMOtvjDtKRtJnw1gWgf4ESBQ&usqp=CAU The problem is you left out the fact that is there home model and the ink canister fill technician making a house call. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 12:52:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans mastered dispersed industry, Albert Speer is interesting. He got out of prison frequently to give talks on industry. Imagine building ME-262s out of Austrian caves. Some of their best production years were often 1944 or 1945 (if production that year continued on). Since Germans have a tendency to over-engineer everything, putting them under stress seems to bring out the technology wunderkind. Look at all the weapon innovations from WWII: Panther tank ME-262 V-2 MP44 Nebelwerfer Fritz-X and HS293 guided glide bombs |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 12:53:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eh, he's Dutch, close enuf.  |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 12:58:49 PM EDT
[#35]
German helicopter component design - "Make it expensive, complicated and difficult to source"
French helicopter component design - "If it can be done with tape, yarn or paper clips, assemble and give it a part number." |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 1:14:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not understand the fascination with German engineering. Their engineering is absolute shit. I've owned enough BMW's and worked on enough Audi's, VW's and Mercedes with buddies to have seen this up close. everything is overly complex, and often fragile. Japanese and American engineering I think is generally better. They get to the same solutions but often in a simpler way. Nothing over-engineered about it and it was the gold standard of bolt actions. It was copied by virtually everyone. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 1:20:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Why design something with 4 parts when 37 will do?
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Posted: 4/6/2021 1:26:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *Laughs in Mauser bolt action* Nothing over-engineered about it and it was the gold standard of bolt actions. It was copied by virtually everyone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I do not understand the fascination with German engineering. Their engineering is absolute shit. I've owned enough BMW's and worked on enough Audi's, VW's and Mercedes with buddies to have seen this up close. everything is overly complex, and often fragile. Japanese and American engineering I think is generally better. They get to the same solutions but often in a simpler way. Nothing over-engineered about it and it was the gold standard of bolt actions. It was copied by virtually everyone. Indeed. The Mauser action is the standard by which all bolt actions are judged, and has been for 120 years. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 1:53:03 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 4/6/2021 2:50:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A total misunderstanding of why. That engine also fits in places designed for a 3.0v6 and 2.0 4cyl. Which only makes it even more ridiculous: Design a engine with thousands of extra parts - and then stuff it into an engine compartment too small to access most of them.  It's retardation, compounded by even more retardation. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 3:22:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which only makes it even more ridiculous: Design a engine with thousands of extra parts - and then stuff it into an engine compartment too small to access most of them. It's retardation, compounded by even more retardation. let me get this right, its dumb because you don't understand the reasons, so that makes it dumber. This compact design allowed the engine and a few variations to be used in a number of chassis, from the S4/RS4, R8, Touareg, A6/RS6, and Q7. they probably used it a few other places as well. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 3:54:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuote History? War w/ DK-Prof? Psssh. He's Dutch! I'll just flood his front lawn! |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 4:22:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ? War w/ DK-Prof? Psssh. He's Dutch! I'll just flood his front lawn! Quote HistoryQuoted: ? War w/ DK-Prof? Psssh. He's Dutch! I'll just flood his front lawn! DK-Prof is not Dutch |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 5:02:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: DK-Prof is not Dutch Low lying European country, conquered by ze Germans in hours, talks funny, don't produce cars, provides tiny bit of cannon fodder to NATO, name of country starts w/ D - not Dutch? |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 6:41:57 PM EDT
[#45]
A brilliant and quite entertaining study of German vs. Italian mindset in rally racing:
 Clarkson's favoriete Rally Battle: Audi Quattro VS. Lancia 037 | The Grand Tour | Prime Video NL |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 6:53:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A pistol the size of a big-ass magnum revolver, capable of 30K+ service life with zero breakages, and insane accuracy of 1 inch or less at 25 yards after endurance testing. If it wasn’t ungodly huge, that thing would be damn near perfect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At least for guns, the MK23 speaks for itself. SOCOM comes up with a feature wishlist for OHWS, some of which sound ridiculous and borderline physically impossible, and they don't really care about the cost. - Most manufacturers just go "nope" right off the bat - Colt makes a half-hearted attempt and ticks like half the boxes - Krauts at H&K say, "You don't care what it costs? Ausgezeichtnet, give us a few months" and produce the indestructible wish pistol with a price four times that of a normal pistol. A pistol the size of a big-ass magnum revolver, capable of 30K+ service life with zero breakages, and insane accuracy of 1 inch or less at 25 yards after endurance testing. If it wasn’t ungodly huge, that thing would be damn near perfect. Maybe even higher than that. Federal's USP they use for ammunition testing is still on all original parts except for small wear parts like springs and whatnot. Barrel, slide, and frame are all original. They send it back to HK for service checkups at regular intervals and I think the HK armorer last reported it was at 270,000 rounds.
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Posted: 4/6/2021 7:05:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously, none of you have ever owned a fine Swedish automobile such as the Volvo or Saab. My engineering buddy always enjoyed working on them because those herpah-derpah Scandoids just have a uniquely different way of doing things. Their Things work, and they work well, but no one other than a Swede would design them like that. They make the Germans look practically Slavic. Swedes are just snow nazis. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 7:09:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: let me get this right, its dumb because you don't understand the reasons, so that makes it dumber. This compact design allowed the engine and a few variations to be used in a number of chassis, from the S4/RS4, R8, Touareg, A6/RS6, and Q7. they probably used it a few other places as well. That's very Teutonic of you: "Your inferior mind is incapable of understanding the brilliance of our design!" |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 7:09:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eh, he's Dutch, close enuf. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: but DK-Prof is not German why would you not ask @Zhukov ? Eh, he's Dutch, close enuf. 
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Posted: 4/6/2021 9:42:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe even higher than that. Federal's USP they use for ammunition testing is still on all original parts except for small wear parts like springs and whatnot. Barrel, slide, and frame are all original. They send it back to HK for service checkups at regular intervals and I think the HK armorer last reported it was at 270,000 rounds. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: At least for guns, the MK23 speaks for itself. SOCOM comes up with a feature wishlist for OHWS, some of which sound ridiculous and borderline physically impossible, and they don't really care about the cost. - Most manufacturers just go "nope" right off the bat - Colt makes a half-hearted attempt and ticks like half the boxes - Krauts at H&K say, "You don't care what it costs? Ausgezeichtnet, give us a few months" and produce the indestructible wish pistol with a price four times that of a normal pistol. A pistol the size of a big-ass magnum revolver, capable of 30K+ service life with zero breakages, and insane accuracy of 1 inch or less at 25 yards after endurance testing. If it wasn’t ungodly huge, that thing would be damn near perfect. Maybe even higher than that. Federal's USP they use for ammunition testing is still on all original parts except for small wear parts like springs and whatnot. Barrel, slide, and frame are all original. They send it back to HK for service checkups at regular intervals and I think the HK armorer last reported it was at 270,000 rounds. I remember that... Years ago. Well over 300K by now, I’d imagine. I’m more impressed by the Mk23’s accuracy after 30K rounds of 185Gr +P. That dinky little o-ring is fucking genius, I’m shocked more manufacturers don’t use that to get match accuracy from service pistols. |
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