Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page / 4
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:08:15 PM EDT
[#1]
My 16 year-old niece is just now learning her states.

How fucking pathetic is THAT???
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:15:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The average person is pretty ignorant, and this applies to many who have gone through more modern and recent advanced schooling.  I found it interesting talking to a guy in his 80s who had a Master's and was a professor of history.  He said that the coursework required to get his high school diploma was more difficult and required much more thinking than what most colleges require now to get a Bachelor's Degree outside of very technical fields.  He also got his Master's fairly recently and said aside from more work from a physical perspective it was not harder to get than the Bachelor's degree he got in the late 1930s.  Standards seem to have dropped precipitously in the last century.  Heck, just look at the English curriculum from the 8th grade around the turn of the 19th century and compare it to today's college level English 101.  The 8th grade course from back then is more thorugh, advanced, and difficult, and that's just pon the grammar and spelling portion.

I actually wrote a paper on this and I think that part of the problem is that we go to school more for the certification because a job requires and just do whatever steps we have to to get there if we can and pay the required monies if necessary.  Education has also in many cases stopped being about discovering Truth, which is the key to genuine knowledge.  Rather, the focus seems to be more on facts or the sum of all facts and not much more, and that will only get you so far and is easily perishable in the mind.  I actually think this is the bigger problem.  

Just look at how an important figure might be addressed.  Let's say Niccolo Machiavelli gets brought up in a lesson.  Most of the time all you will be taught or just expected to know (with or without being told it directly) is his name, where he was from, that he wrote "The Prince," what his title or job was, and when he was born and died.  Knowig this is pretty much next to worthless.  You haven't learned anything from being able to recite these things.  What is important and what is only addressed by the best of instructors when and where they can is what the significance of his work was, how it impacted rulers and history, how it affected ideas regarding governance and politics, and what the philosophical or other origins of his writing are and how they are significant and impacted the contemporaries of Machiavelli; it is also good to know how he can be applied to day and his influence and presence (intellectually and practically speaking) in today's world.  The other facts are only needed to help put these things into context.  

With the holocaust, I have never seen it addrssed for more than a couple of weeks and you only are taught that it happened, that Hitler was behind it as well as the Nazis, that it was in the context of a world war, when it took place and where, and who the targets were and who and how many people died.  You learn that it was bad.  You learn about some girl named Anne Frank and that she wrote a diary and you read some parts of it.  Outside of that it is not approached very much.  It leaves the student with nothing to really give it significance, without an ability to understand why it happened and thus no ability to understand ways to prevent it from happening again in a political context, and without understanding the impact of those events upo history.  It just becomes a small set of facts easily dwarfed by all the others you are told and required to kow that one can easily forget about it, especially when it has no apparent application anywhere in their later life.  Given this and the fact that most people, at least three quarters, are not really all that bright and often could care less about history, it is not surprising to me at all that many people would be so ignorant, even someone with a Master's degree.  

If you want a real education you really have to take it upon yourself.  The schools for the most part will not give it to you.  I learned far more in independent studies on my own time than I ahve learned in all of my formal schooling combined.


I concur


Another huge +1.  I took some college courses about two years ago and the difference between then and the 1980s when I originally went to college was night and day.  Looking at text from years past makes the course I originally took look somewhat lame.  If they still have any of them, read some of your parents school assignments.  Very little of this hookie multiple choice stuff, it was all essay questions requiring comparing and contrasting.  Students these days are not taught to actually think, simple to recite back snippets from memory- it makes better subjects for the king.  You get the illusion of education without that pesky quality of reasoning that leads to questioning of authority.  Look how many young people voted for the idiot in charge but couldn't articulate why and when questioned with facts resort to charges of racism.  We have become pathetic.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:18:23 PM EDT
[#3]
I shit you not, a couple years ago when i was bringing my sister to school i was quizzing her for the test she had to take that day, i said "Who was Adolf hitler"? Whats her answer? "Wasn't he the guy that freed the jews?"
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:19:42 PM EDT
[#4]
It seems to me that more and more parents are regarding the educational system as a government ran babysitting service.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:21:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had a friend of my niece ask me why the wrappers on the potatoes were so tight.


Or maybe she's not so dumb....

I present to you...... SHRINK wrapped potatoes  
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/2558993584_08a2ddba21.jpg?v=0


I was showing her how to peel them for potato salad


Did she mean the skin on the potatoes?  Wooooooooooooow...
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:33:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Ever watch Jay Leno Street Walking?

People are fucking idiots.

I totally believe your friend didn't have a clue...
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:42:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
AdolphF Hitler


oh sweet irony...

I thought he changed the spelling when he moved to South America!

 


I saw a tabloid that said he is teaching English in South America.


you're both wrong... he is a big Phillies fan...
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:48:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Ever watch Jay Leno Street Walking?

People are fucking idiots.

I totally believe your friend didn't have a clue...


I'm teaching her... She's actually very enthusiastic about learning some history.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:48:22 PM EDT
[#9]
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=861266




I had the same problem when teaching high school.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:49:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Shit, way back in the 70s I was walking with two of my friends-guys that I still hang with-who went to a Catholic school.

Mind you, we lived in St. Louis.

As we were walking along I said, "Hey, did you hear Charles Lindbergh died?"

They were like:  "Huh?"

"You know-Charles Lindbergh-the guy that flew the Spirit of St. Louis across the fucking Atlantic Ocean non-stop? The guy that a fucking street that goes from one end of St. Louis county to the other is named after? THAT Charles Lindbergh?"

That was when I decided that a Catholic education was no better or worse than a public education (me).


Which school? My dad and his 4 siblings are all products of St. Louis Catholic schools in the 60's and 70's and my grandmother taught at them. They all for damn sure knew who Lindbergh was. I think you'll find though, that the student is the most important ingredient.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:52:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Stalin and Mao are heroes of the modern liberal, they'll never allow them to be slandered. Hitler however, they have the proles convinced that he's a far right demon.

Quoted:

Quoted:
Bet she still doesn't know Stalin was orders of magnitude worse...


Not a lot of people do, and not many people know that Mao was an even more prolific killer.

If I remember right the numbers were something like:

Mao: 70 Million

Stalin: 17 Million

Hitler: 6 Million

I certainly didn't learn about Mao and Stalin in school. Hitler however was thoroughly covered


Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:54:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I had a friend of my niece ask me why the wrappers on the potatoes were so tight.


Oh hell.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:55:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I shit you not, a couple years ago when i was bringing my sister to school i was quizzing her for the test she had to take that day, i said "Who was Adolf hitler"? Whats her answer? "Wasn't he the guy that freed the jews?"




An Iwo vet I know told me that he was wearing his Iwo ball cap and overheard a couple of kids.

"What is Iwo Jima, anyway" some teenager asked his sweetie.

"You dumbass, it's where John Wayne got killed," replied his girlfriend.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 3:59:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Less than half of Roanoke's public schools met Adequate Yearly Progress targets for the 2009-10 school year, according to data released Thursday by the Virginia Department of Education. Statewide, six of every 10 schools met or exceeded the benchmarks. For a school to make AYP, 81 percent of students and demographic subgroups must have demonstrated proficiency in reading and 79 percent in math.

Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:01:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Stalin and Mao are heroes of the modern liberal, they'll never allow them to be slandered. Hitler however, they have the proles convinced that he's a far right demon.

Quoted:

Quoted:
Bet she still doesn't know Stalin was orders of magnitude worse...


Not a lot of people do, and not many people know that Mao was an even more prolific killer.

If I remember right the numbers were something like:

Mao: 70 Million

Stalin: 17 Million

Hitler: 6 Million

I certainly didn't learn about Mao and Stalin in school. Hitler however was thoroughly covered



Up your totals for Stalin and Hitler. 6 million was the number of Jews killed. 11-12million is about the number that he murdered in camps.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:04:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I had a friend of my niece ask me why the wrappers on the potatoes were so tight.


My daughter once asked my wife if they could go to the McDonald's where they don't speak Spanish in the Kitchen.  Another lady waiting in the line replied, "It's going to be hard to find a McDonalds where they don't speak Spanish."

My wife was mortified...
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:07:46 PM EDT
[#17]
I met a 31 year old with 4 children that lives in a rural area that has never driven a car in her life. I can understand that in a city but a town of 9,000? I was surprised to say the least. I don't know if she knows who Adolf Hitler was.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:15:27 PM EDT
[#18]
The scary part is that if we don't teach this it will almost certainly happen again.

An entire generation is growing up without understanding the sacrifice of my father's generation.  That is sad.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:18:27 PM EDT
[#19]
I had to explain, in detail, to a 31 year old individual


I'm not surprised.........America has been very effectively dumbed down.

Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:22:39 PM EDT
[#20]
BRAWNDO THE THIRST QUENCHER!! IT'S GOT ELECTROLYTES THAT PLANTS CRRRAAAAVE!!!!

Yes this is stunning, it's worse than I thought.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:40:07 PM EDT
[#22]
History is part of the humanities.  The humanities are not important.  All that matters is beating kids from Singapore on math and science tests.

Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:42:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I had to explain, in detail, to a 31 year old individual....


Well, considering that there was a thread a few days ago where the OP was saying his introduction to Japanese wartime atrocities was the Ken Burn's documentary The War...I'd believe it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:46:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Publick Skoolz. Ignorance is Strength.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:54:28 PM EDT
[#25]
I knew a Stanford student who couldn't point out Spain on a map.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:57:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Publick Skoolz. Ignorance is Strength.


The skoolz teach what the people want taught.  I assure you, no teacher invented No Child Left Behind.  That was pushed by politicians acting on the wishes of their constituents.  We are 10 years and billions of dollars into teaching to the tests - are we better off now than 10 years ago?
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 4:59:40 PM EDT
[#27]
I would have her watch Schindler's List. That is also another item that would help her understand Hitler





 
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:09:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Shit, way back in the 70s I was walking with two of my friends-guys that I still hang with-who went to a Catholic school.

Mind you, we lived in St. Louis.

As we were walking along I said, "Hey, did you hear Charles Lindbergh died?"

They were like:  "Huh?"

"You know-Charles Lindbergh-the guy that flew the Spirit of St. Louis across the fucking Atlantic Ocean non-stop? The guy that a fucking street that goes from one end of St. Louis county to the other is named after? THAT Charles Lindbergh?"

That was when I decided that a Catholic education was no better or worse than a public education (me).


meh, i don't really find that shocking or sad.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:15:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
People are fucking idiots.


yep.  as much fun as it is to blame the public school system, some people won't turn out intelligent no matter where you send 'em.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:28:18 PM EDT
[#30]




Quoted:





yep. as much fun as it is to blame the public school system, some people won't turn out intelligent no matter where you send 'em.


Your SN always makes me jump a lil. I had a tough Civil Procedure professor named J. Parness

Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:31:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
People are fucking idiots.


yep.  as much fun as it is to blame the public school system, some people won't turn out intelligent no matter where you send 'em.


Big +1

A lot of people bitch about the education their kids recieve, but I wonder how much effort they put into it themselves.  If someone isn't happy with the coursework provided to their children, there is nothing stopping them from adding to it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:35:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Some schools aren't teaching WWII anymore because it presents the US in too positive a light. Can't have all that patriotism.

My public school education never went into WWII in any detail and only briefly made reference to that great man FDR and some bad guy Hitler who didn't like Jews. Also, it allowed women to finally enter the workforce. The American Revolution was headed by selfish and greedy white land owners. The Civil War was fought so the North could free the slaves.

Luckily, my father was very interested in history and taught me a lot at home.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:39:07 PM EDT
[#33]
You can't teach those that do not want to learn anything that does not interest them.

Example... Guy at work , ALL he is interested in is sports.......he has zero interest in current events , economy , politics and on and on........... and If I talk to him about anything that is going on in the world I end up having to explain it.  

This guy will wake up one day if the SHTF wont have a clue what to do to protect him self. I try from the angle of at least getting some preps ready for hurricane season , basics like food , water and maybe a shotgun or rifle ,  but he waits to the last second to buy just bottled water.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:41:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Ever watch Jay Leno Street Walking?

People are fucking idiots.

I totally believe your friend didn't have a clue...


Carson and others were doing the same gig 30 years ago and got just as many dumbasses
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:49:23 PM EDT
[#35]





Quoted:





Quoted:
Quoted:




Quoted:


I was watching Band Of Brothers with a group of people (The episode where they find the concentration camp)





No lie...No embellishment...No exaggeration...





I had to explain, in detail, to a 31 year old individual who Adolph Hitler was... Why "the Jews hated him so much"... Why the people were in the prison camp, and why they were so skinny.





This particular person was a straight A, honor roll student in high school...has a Master's degree in business management...and, is a corporate director for a national organization.





I asked her how she managed to get through school, and 31 years of life without ever hearing of Hitler or the Nazis.


She said she has heard the name (Like, when people compare a politician to "Hitler"... Or, call an overbearing person "Little Hitler", or "Nazi") but she never knew where the reference came from.





(She was horrified when I gave her a quick and dirty, abridged version of what happened in Nazi Germany).





I am still in disbelief  
On the bright side... She is VERY bright...And, she is now very interested to learn a little bit about history.  So, I am building a list of reading and viewing material for her.






Don't blame that one on the edumakashin sistam. We beat that Hitler and Holocaust shit to death. All my students already know about it before they get to my class.



Same here. Any public school I have seen teaches the holocaust very thoroughly. In all likelihood, she failed the educational system, it didn't fail her.  






I would agree with you, if not for the fact that she was a straight A student...And, has been very successful in college and her career.





When I went to highschool, the history classes went into some detail about the American Revolution, and the Civil War... but made very little reference to WWII, or the Holocaust.


MOSTLY, history class consisted of making you memorize dates of historical events.


I think the teachers were pretty much left up to their own preference about what parts of history they felt like teaching.





Pretty sure I learned most of my history outside of school.
Of course you did.  It's her fault.  She has no interest in anything.  So she doesn't find out.  College is irrelavent.
 
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:50:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Sample size of 1 - stepdaughter.

Sitting at the table one evening eating dinner and talking about our days.  I say something about Hitler and she says something to the effect that she wasn't sure who that was.  I asked her if she was kidding, being more than a little incredulous.  Her reply was that she thought he was some bigshot during WWI or WWII and wasn't he Russian or something like that?  I said "Nazi, you know?"  She had no clue what a Nazi was.  Had no knowledge of the Holocaust.

I'm not sure if it was the teaching or her retention (she's not the brightest bulb in the pack), but I was shocked she didn't know.

Of course, this is the same girl that at the age of 13 thought meat was manufactured behind the wall of the grocery stores and didn't know it came from animals.  
And, at age 15 she had no clue that hamburger came from beef which was another name for cows.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:50:24 PM EDT
[#37]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Bet she still doesn't know Stalin was orders of magnitude worse...




That is a whole other chapter, and I'm quite sure she does not even know who Stalin was.





I HAVE been sucessful in converting her from being  a Liberal (Liberal because she did not follow politics AT ALL, and was influenced only by what she "heard").
Proof of what I said earlier.  No interest in anything.





 
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 5:51:06 PM EDT
[#38]



Quoted:


I had a friend of my niece ask me why the wrappers on the potatoes were so tight.


Must have been a stripper.



 
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:07:00 PM EDT
[#39]
My history teacher in high school could not tell the difference between Ribbentrop and Himmler. She repeatedly pointed him out in a WWII video we were watching calling him Himmler head of the SS. She then argued with me when I tried to explain to her after class.

Knowing who the Nazis and Hitler were is basic cultural literacy.

Most people are not culturally literate.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:10:50 PM EDT
[#40]




Quoted:



Quoted:

She was fucking with you.






No, I can assure you, she wasn't.



I'm not sure which makes me sadder, that a grown woman goes through life not knowing about Hitler and the Holocaust, or the numb nuts that learn about it and insist it's all made up...

Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:13:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:

Quoted:
I had a friend of my niece ask me why the wrappers on the potatoes were so tight.

Must have been a stripper.
 


Vet tech
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:15:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Wait for the POP system or register to go tits up, and watch your average HS grad struggle to make change.  

Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:16:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Basic World History Quiz

20 questions/Multiple choice. Two fill in the blank.

There is even a freebie gun question in there.

Question Excerpt From Basic World History Quiz

  1. Who was the first Western explorer to reach China?
  2. The Battle of Hastings in 1066 was fought in which country?
  3. The Magna Carta was published by the King of which country?
  4. Who fought in the war of 1812?
  5. Adolf Hitler was born in which country?
  6. Joseph Stalin was the premiere of what country? Two words.
  7. This man wrote a document known as the 95 Theses.






Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:28:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:30:58 PM EDT
[#45]



Quoted:


Basic World History Quiz



20 questions/Multiple choice. Two fill in the blank.



There is even a freebie gun question in there.



Question Excerpt From Basic World History Quiz



  1. Who was the first Western explorer to reach China?

  2. The Battle of Hastings in 1066 was fought in which country?

  3. The Magna Carta was published by the King of which country?

  4. Who fought in the war of 1812?

  5. Adolf Hitler was born in which country?

  6. Joseph Stalin was the premiere of what country? Two words.

  7. This man wrote a document known as the 95 Theses.





http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2972/certificatephp.png


I missed the freebie gun question, and the 95 these.. but 90 out of 100 is still an A



 
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:32:27 PM EDT
[#46]
if she was a straight a student in high school, she cheated her way through it.

if she didnt cheat her way through it, then she is a liar.

unless you have seen her report cards (and you have not) then i would not believe her...

either she is not telling the truth about not knowing who adolph was, or she is not being honest about her grades.

pick one... one or the other is true.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:34:20 PM EDT
[#47]
You should have her study the trouser trout.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:34:25 PM EDT
[#48]


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5a_1281619138
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:36:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 6:40:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
History is part of the humanities.  The humanities are not important.  All that matters is beating kids from Singapore on math and science tests.



In my high school we interviewed a bunch of WWII Vets from our community, and recorded their stories in writing and in a film documentary.

This was for a combined English/History lesson. Montana Heritage Program. A good education, in general, is highly dependent on the students will to succeed.
Page / 4
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top