[ARCHIVED THREAD] - s/o Why has Cowboy Action Shooting lost so much popularity in the U.S. ? (Poll added) (Page 3 of 10)
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There's a local group here that's active in my town. Pretty cool looking sport. They ride horses and shoot balloons with snake shot loaded in black powder pistols. I watched lots of kids have fun. You ride a circuit and ANY projectile might hit a spectator. Balloon popped by burning black powder embers. |
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It is a fully modern design that, IMO, totally defeats the purpose of what the sport was/is supposed to be. It only looks like a Colt Single Action Army. Mechanically they are totally different. They use them because they are easier to tune and are perceived to be safer due to having a transfer bar (though they only load 5 anyway). Eta: I don't hate Vaqueros or anything. I even own one. But they are not period correct at all. Quoted:
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The dominance of the fake old west Ruger Vaquero and other gamer bullshit is why I have no interest in it. Nothing against the people who shoot it though, most of the members of my range are CAS shooters and they are mostly good people. In 3-gun and USPSA, when I think gamer guns, I think STI Limited .40S&W double stack with the big mag well and barely major loads or Open with an EAA Witness and C-More bolted to it shooting .38 Super with a Ghost belt rig. Eta: I don't hate Vaqueros or anything. I even own one. But they are not period correct at all. *shrug* Not my sport, not my rules. But I see why people get upset. |
I looked into it when I accidentally wound up with a few of the acceptable guns. 
The dressing up wasn't too bad since I figured I could come up with shit to wear that didn't make me look like one of the three amigos, but it was clear early on that it was an old man's game. There just isn't the interest in westerns once you get past the baby boomer generation. I don't think it's a bad idea, just that the numbers were probably peaked a few years ago and the demographics aren't going to improve. I will admit, the idea of Wild Bunch matches really did sound like fun. And the roaring 20's ones would be fun too but I'll go be poor somewhere else with my lack of BAR or Thompson. 
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I haven't shot SASS/CAS for about 2 years. I've been thinking of getting back into it. The main reasons I think people don't shoot it already have been stated: 1. Dressing up - I don't mind it and have put together several outfits 2. expense of arms - The days of cheap uberti revolvers are long gone. 3. Gamerisms - This is kinda why I quit. Having grown men shooting gamer 38's with barely enough powder to register as a mouse fart is lame. To be more gamer they've even came up with a special 45 load that uses brass shorter than schoefield or 45ACP. 4. Not popular - Westerns aren't popular anymore Shooting CAS I like how the matches are run. It doesn't take long to reset ranges for the next shooter. Most shoots were 4-7 stages and the match doesn't drag since stages can be reset from shooter to shooter so fast. Usually shoot starts at 10am, over by 2pm. Yes some of the stages can be hokey, and having alias is cheesy, but most shooting sports are. I've seen an IDPA/IPSC (don't remember) match where you start the stage lying down in bed. Its a game, nothing more. I wish they would open up the rulebook for period correct arms. The rules are written in such a manner to drive everyone to the same guns. Can't use a 45-70 in main matches, rifles and shotguns have to have exposed hammers, etc. There's plenty of period correct arms that would be fun to use; Krags, 95 Winchesters, 86 Winchesters, Martini Henrys, double action pistols like Webley, etc....all forbidden. |
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You hit my problems. I did it for years and loved it. I got really bloody tired though of shooting big ass black powder cartridge loads that rocked back in your hand and threw smoke everywhere (which I loved), and I'd watch the next five guys in my "posse" shooting pussy loads that could barely break paper out of their 38 caliber revolvers. Quoted:
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I haven't shot SASS/CAS for about 2 years. I've been thinking of getting back into it. The main reasons I think people don't shoot it already have been stated: 1. Dressing up - I don't mind it and have put together several outfits 2. expense of arms - The days of cheap uberti revolvers are long gone. 3. Gamerisms - This is kinda why I quit. Having grown men shooting gamer 38's with barely enough powder to register as a mouse fart is lame. To be more gamer they've even came up with a special 45 load that uses brass shorter than schoefield or 45ACP. 4. Not popular - Westerns aren't popular anymore Shooting CAS I like how the matches are run. It doesn't take long to reset ranges for the next shooter. Most shoots were 4-7 stages and the match doesn't drag since stages can be reset from shooter to shooter so fast. Usually shoot starts at 10am, over by 2pm. Yes some of the stages can be hokey, and having alias is cheesy, but most shooting sports are. I've seen an IDPA/IPSC (don't remember) match where you start the stage lying down in bed. Its a game, nothing more. I wish they would open up the rulebook for period correct arms. The rules are written in such a manner to drive everyone to the same guns. Can't use a 45-70 in main matches, rifles and shotguns have to have exposed hammers, etc. There's plenty of period correct arms that would be fun to use; Krags, 95 Winchesters, 86 Winchesters, Martini Henrys, double action pistols like Webley, etc....all forbidden. |
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Love to shoot my single action pistols and lever action rifles. But ... Dressing up like cowboys and shooting with others similarly dress seemed ... silly. Did cowboys dress up like pilgrims and have blunderbuss competitions? Other than a Halloween party or specific dress up party, I don’t understand dress up for adults, especially if it involves shooting. And it doesn’t help the cause when the people participating are Fudds that walk around in costume....in New England, where a “cowboy” is as out of place as an armored knight. |
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I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was. But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in! 
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Cost is the reason. For someone just coming into the game:
2 pistols ~$1,500 Rifle ~1,200 Shotgun ~900 clothing ~300 ammo for a weekend ~$200 or reloading from the ground up ~$1,500) So, for the FNGs first weekend he is looking at ~$4,000. ETA: forgot gun leather. It would be easy to drop ~$1,500 on fancy belt and wo holsters. Many of the old farts in the game (me) started when only one pistol was needed, then we added the rifle, already had a SxS shotgun a few years later added the second pistol. Back then the clothing rule (singular) was, "If the Duke would have worn it, you are GTG"! |
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I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was. But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in! |
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I think it’s the homosexuality of it. Dressing up like a cowboy. Using antiques..really gay ETA: Also LOL at the people complaining about the "goofy names". Have you ever looked at the goofy screen names on GD? |
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So you would participate if it was totally different?  Quoted:
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I'd probably try it if I could use a modern revolver (with appropriate ammo) and didn't have to play dress up. Buying special repro guns and wearing a costume kills any interest I would have in it. |
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Quoted: It's the damn clothes and excessive fudd rules. I'd love to shoot matches with revolvers and lever actions. I'll spend the money on guns and ammo but I'm not spending the money on clothes  |
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Old people dying. It's killed a lot of hobbies. Even flying. All of the pilots in our club are fast approaching the age where they can't fly anymore and there's almost no enthusiasm among young people to learn to fly. I guess sitting on your ass, staring a cell phone is more fun than knowing how to fly a plane... you know, something useful. I wanted to do that for a living, I went thru a ground school during high school. 9/11 happened and right as I graduated high school in '03 airlines were flopping left and right so I went a different route. I would still like to do it but no idea on how to fund it. I think in the past a lot of people used the military for training. |
| Targets too close, too static, i.e. can't shoot and move or shoot on the move, no reloads. Some of the best laughs I have had was watching people try to get a round off after a partial reload. Some real flinching going on. The second gun made it too formulaic. How many cowboys carried two pistols? Dressed out of my closet, no big deal. Love the 3 gun now! |
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Quoted: You hit my problems. I did it for years and loved it. I got really bloody tired though of shooting big ass black powder cartridge loads that rocked back in your hand and threw smoke everywhere (which I loved), and I'd watch the next five guys in my "posse" shooting pussy loads that could barely break paper out of their 38 caliber revolvers. |
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I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was. But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in! Own that shit bro.
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Well.... I would go shoot Cowboy action given the opportunity / circumstance. Until today - when I read it requires period clothing. If wranglers, boots, and ball-cap, (ok maybe straw cowboy hat) aren't good enough, I'm unlikely to go out of my way to acquire anything else. It's disheartening to go out with store bought gear, particularly cartridges, and be at a disadvantage due to others shooting powder puff loads. This applies to all the games, though. - Sounds odd - but one thing that really irritates me in any situation is having to make up a name. I have a name, my parents gave it to me, and I'm proud of it - such as it is. |
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My totally wild ass guess is that as more and more boomers who were weaned on Roy Rodgers, The Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, John Wayne etc either are growing too old and or passing away. As someone who grew up at the tail end of the tv western era it's something I've always wanted to get into, but much like my love for hunting I don't have the time to indulge like I would like to. (The downside of working for yourself is that when you're not working you're not getting paid and I have kids I'm putting through college and child support on one that's graduating this year.) It happens with old toys It's happening now with early Nintendo and other such video games It happens with cars TV shows Etc Those that grew up watching cowboy shows grew up and got into CAS. Now that generation is getting too old (or too dead!) to play any more so away it goes (may not disappear but will shrink for sure). |
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The question asked was "why is CAS dying?" I answered based on my personal experience as a younger shooter, and why I chose uspsa over something like CAS. I'd rather shoot uspsa or similar where I can show up with stuff I already own (or buy minimal equipment) and be able to compete reasonably well in production division. Quoted:
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I'd probably try it if I could use a modern revolver (with appropriate ammo) and didn't have to play dress up. Buying special repro guns and wearing a costume kills any interest I would have in it.
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Love to shoot my single action pistols and lever action rifles. But ... Dressing up like cowboys and shooting with others similarly dress seemed ... silly. Did cowboys dress up like pilgrims and have blunderbuss competitions? From my limited interaction the 2 main killers are cost of the outfits and the youngun's with their fancy 38s shooting fast. |
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In this thread we see who doesn't know jack shit about clothing requirements of SASS. Jeans, long sleeve button down shirt (doesn't have to be flannel) and some work boots. That's it. You don't even have to wear a hat unless you choose to be in one very specific category. That's less "dressed up" than the average IPSC match and it's probably already in your closet. Cost? $0.00 What's killing SASS? Bullshit misinformation like is in this thread. 
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You hit my problems. I did it for years and loved it. I got really bloody tired though of shooting big ass black powder cartridge loads that rocked back in your hand and threw smoke everywhere (which I loved), and I'd watch the next five guys in my "posse" shooting pussy loads that could barely break paper out of their 38 caliber revolvers. Quoted:
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I haven't shot SASS/CAS for about 2 years. I've been thinking of getting back into it. The main reasons I think people don't shoot it already have been stated: 1. Dressing up - I don't mind it and have put together several outfits 2. expense of arms - The days of cheap uberti revolvers are long gone. 3. Gamerisms - This is kinda why I quit. Having grown men shooting gamer 38's with barely enough powder to register as a mouse fart is lame. To be more gamer they've even came up with a special 45 load that uses brass shorter than schoefield or 45ACP. 4. Not popular - Westerns aren't popular anymore Shooting CAS I like how the matches are run. It doesn't take long to reset ranges for the next shooter. Most shoots were 4-7 stages and the match doesn't drag since stages can be reset from shooter to shooter so fast. Usually shoot starts at 10am, over by 2pm. Yes some of the stages can be hokey, and having alias is cheesy, but most shooting sports are. I've seen an IDPA/IPSC (don't remember) match where you start the stage lying down in bed. Its a game, nothing more. I wish they would open up the rulebook for period correct arms. The rules are written in such a manner to drive everyone to the same guns. Can't use a 45-70 in main matches, rifles and shotguns have to have exposed hammers, etc. There's plenty of period correct arms that would be fun to use; Krags, 95 Winchesters, 86 Winchesters, Martini Henrys, double action pistols like Webley, etc....all forbidden.
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For me cost has always been the barrier to entry. I want to buy CASS style guns anyways but they're very low on my priority list and aren't cheap. I don't mind dressing up in old timey clothes either for the rules sake but those cost more money. I could afford it but don't want to shoot those competitions enough to make it a priority. Hell if they had a revolver only day I'd pick one up and get the clothes but that plus a rifle and shotgun really pushes the cost up. |
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Too many gamers shooting bunny-fart loads. Silly names. Clothing became a money-spending competition. SASS #47XXX I shoot 'duelist' (right hand then left hand) because that is the way they did it back then and I am always near the bottom of the list. I don't care. |
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It is like a lot of shooting disciplines, it can be cheap, or you can drop a ton of cash into it. I got into it as a way to get out and shoot with like minded shooters that had an interest in the Wild West. It was a lot of fun in the beginning. Later, the gamers spoiled it for me.
I shot a pair of Uberti 44-40s that I found for around $400/each. I shot an 1873 that I found on the used gun rack for $385(lucky find) but they were selling for $650 new at the time. I used a Rossi 12 gauge bought used for $300. I made my own holster rig- about $30 in leather and a little time. I made my own leather suspenders and stirrup straps. My Mother made me a placket front shirt and a couple of vests. Pair of boots and a Black hat $??. And you could shoot in the Cap and ball classes for a lot less. I'm a reloader and bullet caster, so ammo wasn't a big issue for me. I shot full power Holy Black loads and smokeless depending on my mood on any given day. When I first started the game, there were no prizes other than Wooden Nickels for stage winners. We had simple little generic trophies, and the occasional gift certificate to a LGS or some place like Mid South Shooters Supply for the Match/Class winners. We played the game for simple fun of it, the friendship, and cameraderie of it all. We had a sizeable number of Junior and teens/20s shooters. What ruined it for me? Mouse fart loads, lever action short throw kits, lever action shotguns, and prize money. When the various matches started in with cash prizes, here came the gamers. Those folks who could spend all their time practicing, sponsors (money), etc. It for me was a game where anyone could show and be reasonably competitive and HAVE FUN. That went away as the "professional shooters" took over. Kinda like what happened with IPSC/USPSA etc. I don't begrudge the money shooters one bit. But the game began as a kind of "everyman event" in a run what you brung environment originally. It DEVOLVED into an arms race, and the "everyman" element was lost. Yes, some of the rules were a bit snargled, but imho not really any worse than some of the rules in many other shooting disciplines. Was sad to see it go that way, but it did. Add in the aging of the participant base and the rest is history. But was a metric ton o' fun while it lasted. |