[ARCHIVED THREAD] - s/o Why has Cowboy Action Shooting lost so much popularity in the U.S. ? (Poll added) (Page 4 of 10)
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I want to start a “dress-up” period shooting sport. Costumes optional, real shooting. Retro Cop. Pump shotgun and revolver. TJHookerAdam12DragnetHillStreetBlues Action Shooting. Who’s in? 
But the clamshell holsters and drop pouches would be fun! "Will it open?" "Will the rounds spill out of the drop pouch and go rolling all over the place?" |
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You don't have to shoot those loads. Why do you care if other people do? Or are you in it to win the 'competition'? I shoot 'duelist' (right hand then left hand) because that is the way they did it back then and I am always near the bottom of the list. I don't care. 1. Not helping out posse (manning loading/unloading table, helping count misses, pick up brass, etc). They shoot then they wander off to find out times of other top shooters. 2. Though its not allowed, they constantly ghost shoot the stage to get the feel of it (Nevada sweep with rifle then one pistol, etc) 3. They put the least amount of effort into stage participation. If the stage calls for throwing a lasso for example, they toss it 2 feet then carry on with their shooting 4. Their s#$ty mouse fart reloads have failures to ignite, then they cry about a reshoot. 5. The slightest mistake in handling (lever a live round out) they cry about a reshoot. I too shoot duelist. I use a slow a$$ schofield and a buntline SAA in 45. My rifle is an unslicked 1873 musket with period correct anti-sweep device (bayonet). I too am at the bottom of the list. I don't shoot for speed I shoot for fun. That fun is diminished when half the posse is gaming it while the other half is trying to work the stage. |
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From what I've seen at all the SASS matches I've shot the weaker the loads the person shoots, the weaker posse member they are. By weak I mean: 1. Not helping out posse (manning loading/unloading table, helping count misses, pick up brass, etc). They shoot then they wander off to find out times of other top shooters. 2. Though its not allowed, they constantly ghost shoot the stage to get the feel of it (Nevada sweep with rifle then one pistol, etc) 3. They put the least amount of effort into stage participation. If the stage calls for throwing a lasso for example, they toss it 2 feet then carry on with their shooting 4. Their s#$ty mouse fart reloads have failures to ignite, then they cry about a reshoot. 5. The slightest mistake in handling (lever a live round out) they cry about a reshoot. I too shoot duelist. I use a slow a$$ schofield and a buntline SAA in 45. My rifle is an unslicked 1873 musket with period correct anti-sweep device (bayonet). I too am at the bottom of the list. I don't shoot for speed I shoot for fun. That fun is diminished when half the posse is gaming it while the other half is trying to work the stage. Quoted:
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You don't have to shoot those loads. Why do you care if other people do? Or are you in it to win the 'competition'? I shoot 'duelist' (right hand then left hand) because that is the way they did it back then and I am always near the bottom of the list. I don't care. 1. Not helping out posse (manning loading/unloading table, helping count misses, pick up brass, etc). They shoot then they wander off to find out times of other top shooters. 2. Though its not allowed, they constantly ghost shoot the stage to get the feel of it (Nevada sweep with rifle then one pistol, etc) 3. They put the least amount of effort into stage participation. If the stage calls for throwing a lasso for example, they toss it 2 feet then carry on with their shooting 4. Their s#$ty mouse fart reloads have failures to ignite, then they cry about a reshoot. 5. The slightest mistake in handling (lever a live round out) they cry about a reshoot. I too shoot duelist. I use a slow a$$ schofield and a buntline SAA in 45. My rifle is an unslicked 1873 musket with period correct anti-sweep device (bayonet). I too am at the bottom of the list. I don't shoot for speed I shoot for fun. That fun is diminished when half the posse is gaming it while the other half is trying to work the stage. |
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LOL at the guy with a roided up homosexual, made up like a cheap whore, with teased up, bleached blonde hair for an avatar. ETA: Also LOL at the people complaining about the "goofy names". Have you ever looked at the goofy screen names on GD? Quoted:
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I think it’s the homosexuality of it. Dressing up like a cowboy. Using antiques..really gay ETA: Also LOL at the people complaining about the "goofy names". Have you ever looked at the goofy screen names on GD? You sound mad bro. U mad? I ain’t mad |
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I'm going to guess an aging population? The same thing that is killing a lot of things, especially firearm oriented. The lion's share of of young people have little interest in historical or antiquated objects, hence the decline in value of a lot of antiques and vintage collectibles. I suspect the decline in Harley sales is for somewhat of the same reasons....... |
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It is like a lot of shooting disciplines, it can be cheap, or you can drop a ton of cash into it. I got into it as a way to get out and shoot with like minded shooters that had an interest in the Wild West. It was a lot of fun in the beginning. Later, the gamers spoiled it for me. I shot a pair of Uberti 44-40s that I found for around $400/each. I shot an 1873 that I found on the used gun rack for $385(lucky find) but they were selling for $650 new at the time. I used a Rossi 12 gauge bought used for $300. I made my own holster rig- about $30 in leather and a little time. I made my own leather suspenders and stirrup straps. My Mother made me a placket front shirt and a couple of vests. Pair of boots and a Black hat $??. And you could shoot in the Cap and ball classes for a lot less. I'm a reloader and bullet caster, so ammo wasn't a big issue for me. I shot full power Holy Black loads and smokeless depending on my mood on any given day. When I first started the game, there were no prizes other than Wooden Nickels for stage winners. We had simple little generic trophies, and the occasional gift certificate to a LGS or some place like Mid South Shooters Supply for the Match/Class winners. We played the game for simple fun of it, the friendship, and cameraderie of it all. We had a sizeable number of Junior and teens/20s shooters. What ruined it for me? Mouse fart loads, lever action short throw kits, lever action shotguns, and prize money. When the various matches started in with cash prizes, here came the gamers. Those folks who could spend all their time practicing, sponsors (money), etc. It for me was a game where anyone could show and be reasonably competitive and HAVE FUN. That went away as the "professional shooters" took over. Kinda like what happened with IPSC/USPSA etc. I don't begrudge the money shooters one bit. But the game began as a kind of "everyman event" in a run what you brung environment originally. It DEVOLVED into an arms race, and the "everyman" element was lost. Yes, some of the rules were a bit snargled, but imho not really any worse than some of the rules in many other shooting disciplines. Was sad to see it go that way, but it did. Add in the aging of the participant base and the rest is history. But was a metric ton o' fun while it lasted. Sounds a lot like me. I wouldn't have got into reloading if I didn't shoot CAS. I started borrowing equipment, then slowly bought items, often from fellow shooters who were changing gear. Never got into the BP side but I enjoyed BP shooters with the loud thumps and clouds of smoke. Once I moved in 2005 the new club was gamer-ific. The fun started to melt away. I'm curious as to your hate for lever action shotguns. They're period correct and fun to shoot. I started shooting an original (borrowed) 1887 that was a blast. My Coyote Cap 1887 is much faster than me, but it works good. It wasn't too long ago that the Chicom lever 1887 was cheaper new than a used double barrel. WRT shotguns, SASS/CAS has painted themselves into a real corner. The rules basically allow 5 guns only; single shot NEF, hammered Double barrel, hammerless double barrel, 1887 Lever action, 1897 pump. Heaven forbid you have a pump marlin or a 1893 Winchester... |
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Those are different issues than just weak loads. But yeah people that don't help suck. I don't give a shit about the gamers. |
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The dominance of the fake old west Ruger Vaquero and other gamer bullshit is why I have no interest in it. Nothing against the people who shoot it though, most of the members of my range are CAS shooters and they are mostly good people. |
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Jeans, long sleeve button down shirt (doesn't have to be flannel) and some work boots. That's it. You don't even have to wear a hat unless you choose to be in one very specific category. That's less "dressed up" than the average IPSC match and it's probably already in your closet. Cost? $0.00 And a special hat category sounds awesome. If it's a shooting sport, what difference does a hat make? |
| When i shot 2 gun, 3 gun, IDPA and outlaw pistol some of the worst shooters were also the worst helpers. I don't like those types of people. I may not can shoot like Jerry, but I can tape about as good as him I bet. FWIW a friend shot CAS for probably 25 years and ran his local club most of that time. He would tell you not to come back if you had a bad attitude or did not help out. |
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Because as fun as it seems, we need to be training on modern firearms for what is coming down the road.
Spending thousands extra on outdated guns, cartridges, clothes, holsters, etc is foolish considering that in the next decade or so, we will quite possibly be engaging in civil war. And as much as I enjoy my lever action, if I think folks are coming to kill me, I’m reaching for the AR with 40-round magazine & red dot. |
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Quoted: From what I've seen at all the SASS matches I've shot the weaker the loads the person shoots, the weaker posse member they are. By weak I mean: 1. Not helping out posse (manning loading/unloading table, helping count misses, pick up brass, etc). They shoot then they wander off to find out times of other top shooters. 2. Though its not allowed, they constantly ghost shoot the stage to get the feel of it (Nevada sweep with rifle then one pistol, etc) 3. They put the least amount of effort into stage participation. If the stage calls for throwing a lasso for example, they toss it 2 feet then carry on with their shooting 4. Their s#$ty mouse fart reloads have failures to ignite, then they cry about a reshoot. 5. The slightest mistake in handling (lever a live round out) they cry about a reshoot. I too shoot duelist. I use a slow a$$ schofield and a buntline SAA in 45. My rifle is an unslicked 1873 musket with period correct anti-sweep device (bayonet). I too am at the bottom of the list. I don't shoot for speed I shoot for fun. That fun is diminished when half the posse is gaming it while the other half is trying to work the stage. Choosing to be a part of a team for a team event is OK. HAVING to do it to even participate is not. Pausing shooting to pick up brass is kinda lame. |
| The clothing requirement is over the top, for one thing. They're expensive and spaghetti western ridiculous, which is the origin of the sport. Authentic "cowboy" wear is expensive enough, much less the get up I see these guys wear. The guns and gear are expensive and have little real world use outside the sport. I love single actions and lever guns, but I'm not EDCing either. |
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I used to do WWII reenacting and enjoyed it. CAS was catching my interest since the WWII was getting a bit annoying with politics and screw ups during the events. I wanted to do Span-Am. Had a legit Krag Cavalry Carbine and Colt New Service in .45 Colt , had a source on a Rough Riders Enlisted Uniform, etc....
Then I learned about their rules. No centerfire fullbore rifles. Must he a PCC chambering. No DA wheel guns. Etc, etc, etc.... That threw me right off to not caring. They have their stupid Wild Bunch matchz but won't let legit period weapons be used because they aren't "cowboy". |
| We took my son's BSA troop to watch a match during our Sports shooting weekend this year. Looked like a lot of fun, but dang it looks expensive to get into as well as practice. Probably have to join a shooting club or have land to practice. I'm early 50s, and I don't know if any of the competitors were younger than me. |
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I infer from the term "posse" you're expected to be a part of a team of some sort? Choosing to be a part of a team for a team event is OK. HAVING to do it to even participate is not. Pausing shooting to pick up brass is kinda lame. Quoted:
Quoted: From what I've seen at all the SASS matches I've shot the weaker the loads the person shoots, the weaker posse member they are. By weak I mean: 1. Not helping out posse (manning loading/unloading table, helping count misses, pick up brass, etc). They shoot then they wander off to find out times of other top shooters. 2. Though its not allowed, they constantly ghost shoot the stage to get the feel of it (Nevada sweep with rifle then one pistol, etc) 3. They put the least amount of effort into stage participation. If the stage calls for throwing a lasso for example, they toss it 2 feet then carry on with their shooting 4. Their s#$ty mouse fart reloads have failures to ignite, then they cry about a reshoot. 5. The slightest mistake in handling (lever a live round out) they cry about a reshoot. I too shoot duelist. I use a slow a$$ schofield and a buntline SAA in 45. My rifle is an unslicked 1873 musket with period correct anti-sweep device (bayonet). I too am at the bottom of the list. I don't shoot for speed I shoot for fun. That fun is diminished when half the posse is gaming it while the other half is trying to work the stage. Choosing to be a part of a team for a team event is OK. HAVING to do it to even participate is not. Pausing shooting to pick up brass is kinda lame. |
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If something gets young people involved, it would probably be Red Dead Redemption 2. Quoted:
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The old people died. |
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I used to shoot CAS. One of the things that torqued me off was the retarded B.S. regarding the actual firearms allowed. Supposedly the rule was the gun had to exist during the "Frontier Period". 1890 or prior. OK. What about all the 1897 Winchester pumps? Those damn sure were NOT on the Frontier. STFU I was told. One fellow turned up with a no shit 1886 Spencer pump shotgun that was most certainly a frontier period gun. He was DQ'ed. 
Another guy tried to use an 1880's British Webley. NOPE! Not allowed. 
I always thought there should be a .22LR classification allowed. This would allow for low cost, entry level folks as well as another class for experienced shooters to play in. But NOOOOOOOOOOO. The gamers could shoot mouse fart centerfire loads all day long but .22lr "wasn't in the spirit of the game". 
Had my fill and walked away. |
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When i shot 2 gun, 3 gun, IDPA and outlaw pistol some of the worst shooters were also the worst helpers. I don't like those types of people. I may not can shoot like Jerry, but I can tape about as good as him I bet. FWIW a friend shot CAS for probably 25 years and ran his local club most of that time. He would tell you not to come back if you had a bad attitude or did not help out. |
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I'm going to guess an aging population? The same thing that is killing a lot of things, especially firearm oriented. The lion's share of of young people have little interest in historical or antiquated objects, hence the decline in value of a lot of antiques and vintage collectibles. I suspect the decline in Harley sales is for somewhat of the same reasons....... Civil war reenactments use to be big around here (VA), but same thing crowd aging, plus politically correct crowd doesn't want monuments, flags, imagine how them loosing it over reenactments. |
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Posse is a squad. Never saw them stop to pickup brass they are on it while you are shooting. Quoted:
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Quoted: From what I've seen at all the SASS matches I've shot the weaker the loads the person shoots, the weaker posse member they are. By weak I mean: 1. Not helping out posse (manning loading/unloading table, helping count misses, pick up brass, etc). They shoot then they wander off to find out times of other top shooters. 2. Though its not allowed, they constantly ghost shoot the stage to get the feel of it (Nevada sweep with rifle then one pistol, etc) 3. They put the least amount of effort into stage participation. If the stage calls for throwing a lasso for example, they toss it 2 feet then carry on with their shooting 4. Their s#$ty mouse fart reloads have failures to ignite, then they cry about a reshoot. 5. The slightest mistake in handling (lever a live round out) they cry about a reshoot. I too shoot duelist. I use a slow a$$ schofield and a buntline SAA in 45. My rifle is an unslicked 1873 musket with period correct anti-sweep device (bayonet). I too am at the bottom of the list. I don't shoot for speed I shoot for fun. That fun is diminished when half the posse is gaming it while the other half is trying to work the stage. Choosing to be a part of a team for a team event is OK. HAVING to do it to even participate is not. Pausing shooting to pick up brass is kinda lame. In the other shooting events I've done, IDPA, 3-Gun, Steel Challenge. You are solo. So... I'm still not understanding what about cowboy action shooting is a team event. I've observed it a couple times if anything was team oriented it wasn't obvious. |
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Call it BS but at 2g for an Colt SAA I would have to say I'll stick with my Vaquero's until my income takes a serious windfall. Quoted:
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The dominance of the fake old west Ruger Vaquero and other gamer bullshit is why I have no interest in it. Nothing against the people who shoot it though, most of the members of my range are CAS shooters and they are mostly good people.  . The Ubertis, which are actual Colt copies, can be had cheaper than Vaqueros. Most people who don't use Vaqueros use an Uberti of some sort.
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Quoted: I infer from the term "posse" you're expected to be a part of a team of some sort? Choosing to be a part of a team for a team event is OK. HAVING to do it to even participate is not. Pausing shooting to pick up brass is kinda lame. There are jobs on the posse that exist (due to SASS rules and to speed up shooting). You don't hold the same job always, its a rotating pool. Going off of memory: 1. One person holds the timer/RO 2. One person is the scorekeeper 3. three people are spotters (counting misses and making sure targets shot in order) 4. one person watching loading table 5. one person watching unloading table 6 2-3 people picking up brass. Brass is picked up after the shooter is done with the stage. If any brass goes beyond the firing line it is picked up once the range is cold. Picking up brass may seem lame, but cowboy shooters aren't dumping steel case wolf everywhere. However, if someone at wolf is listening...make 45LC cheap and affordable and you'll make a killing! If you have people doing these various jobs, things run very effectively and the posse can get through the stage in a timely manner. Without people, or having people do multiple jobs, it slows things down. Slow posses = slow/fewer stages = less shooting. |
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Because when I showed up to my first one. A flannel, jeans and my boots wasn't good enough (lame) My gun was "ok" (Brand new beretta stampede .357mag) My ammo was "A little too hot" (winchester white box round nose .38 specials" and the the people were kind of fucking annoying. Ill stick to ipsc type stuff |
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Quoted: Posse is just the group you are with shooting the various stages. To speed things along several posses shoot different stages at the same time. There are jobs on the posse that exist (due to SASS rules and to speed up shooting). You don't hold the same job always, its a rotating pool. Going off of memory: 1. One person holds the timer/RO 2. One person is the scorekeeper 3. three people are spotters (counting misses and making sure targets shot in order) 4. one person watching loading table 5. one person watching unloading table 6 2-3 people picking up brass. Brass is picked up after the shooter is done with the stage. If any brass goes beyond the firing line it is picked up once the range is cold. Picking up brass may seem lame, but cowboy shooters aren't dumping steel case wolf everywhere. However, if someone at wolf is listening...make 45LC cheap and affordable and you'll make a killing! If you have people doing these various jobs, things run very effectively and the posse can get through the stage in a timely manner. Without people, or having people do multiple jobs, it slows things down. Slow posses = slow/fewer stages = less shooting. |
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Love to shoot my single action pistols and lever action rifles. But ... Dressing up like cowboys and shooting with others similarly dress seemed ... silly. Did cowboys dress up like pilgrims and have blunderbuss competitions? 
 Just as silly in my book, but it's the younger crowd starting the new trend. |
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Love to shoot my single action pistols and lever action rifles. But ... Dressing up like cowboys and shooting with others similarly dress seemed ... silly. Did cowboys dress up like pilgrims and have blunderbuss competitions? |
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Quoted: Agreed. I did it for one season (match really). Between the cost of the guns (and I went "cheap" with Vaqueros, Marlin, and Baikal sxs) and the leather it was a ton of money. The match was the real kicker. Seemed very "Renn Faire"/D&D with guns. I was by far the youngest (32 at the time), and it seemed really weird. The costumes and "personas" made it an evern bigger turn off. 
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Did they go all in and not bathe for 2 weeks? Quoted:
Quoted: Agreed. I did it for one season (match really). Between the cost of the guns (and I went "cheap" with Vaqueros, Marlin, and Baikal sxs) and the leather it was a ton of money. The match was the real kicker. Seemed very "Renn Faire"/D&D with guns. I was by far the youngest (32 at the time), and it seemed really weird. The costumes and "personas" made it an evern bigger turn off. |
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The cool factor switched to this. https://taskandpurpose.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/gunrange21.jpg https://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/UF-Pro-P-40-1.jpg http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll106/pballinjech318/111-1.jpg Just as silly in my book, but it's the younger crowd starting the new trend. Quoted:
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Love to shoot my single action pistols and lever action rifles. But ... Dressing up like cowboys and shooting with others similarly dress seemed ... silly. Did cowboys dress up like pilgrims and have blunderbuss competitions? https://taskandpurpose.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/gunrange21.jpg https://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/UF-Pro-P-40-1.jpg http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll106/pballinjech318/111-1.jpg Just as silly in my book, but it's the younger crowd starting the new trend. |
| I have all the guns, proper, not hollywood leather and even the clothing. I dont shoot any cowboy matches, even with them being held at my muzzleloading club because I dont have the time, and I dont have to do a silly little dance to draw my crossdraw pistol when I shoot in the back yard. |
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I had the guns and gear needed, and was interested in joining, so I went to a match with my son to check it out. I encountered the rudest A-holes you can imagine. We were treated like invading leppers by the Cowboy Comic-Con group of about a dozen people. They had no desire whatsoever to allow anyone in their little club. |
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I used to shoot CAS. One of the things that torqued me off was the retarded B.S. regarding the actual firearms allowed. Supposedly the rule was the gun had to exist during the "Frontier Period". 1890 or prior. OK. What about all the 1897 Winchester pumps? Those damn sure were NOT on the Frontier. STFU I was told. One fellow turned up with a no shit 1886 Spencer pump shotgun that was most certainly a frontier period gun. He was DQ'ed.
Another guy tried to use an 1880's British Webley. NOPE! Not allowed.
I always thought there should be a .22LR classification allowed. This would allow for low cost, entry level folks as well as another class for experienced shooters to play in. But NOOOOOOOOOOO. The gamers could shoot mouse fart centerfire loads all day long but .22lr "wasn't in the spirit of the game".
Had my fill and walked away. The rules are pretty clear. For rifles and shotguns general matches. Used before 1899, exposed hammers, no box magazines. Slide or lever action. Rifles in a "pistol" caliber. More specific voluntary categories might require variations. Rifles in a "Rifle" match can use rifle calibers, again exposed hammers, single shot or tube magazines. Revolving rifles might not be allowed. Safety issues. 1897's and the "Wild Bunch" - The original members like(d) the movie The Wild Bunch, hence the use of 1911s, 1903s, 1897s in Wild Bunch matches.. 1897 Winchesters were in common use in the early days of the sport and were grandfathered in. A significant reason was that many original shotguns from the old west era are and were no longer safae to shoot, and safe 97s were in abundance. Other pumps like the 1896 Marlin were considered but IIRC the Marlins were found to be marginally safe in many cases, so not allowed. So if you were a noob and showed up and bitched about 97s you were probably told it's closed issue. If you wanted to keep arguing a closed issue, than a stronger response was appropriate. If a shooter showed with a safe, legal, and period appropriate and calibered weapon that met the rules (magazine type, action type, etc, look in the Shooter's Handbook) they should have been allowed to shoot. There were no power factors, regular users of mouse farts were considered wimpy but they were not specifically disallowed. Many clubs have option 22 matches or stages, but they are optional. May also use 22s and 410 for kids classes Costumes, and gun carts? Costumes can be as simple as regular jeans, a western style shirt and no sneakers. Most clubs allow new shooters a while to build up their arsenal and costumes. Period or period appearing hats of period material. It isn't rocket science. Spirit of the game ruled. Safety was paramount. But you could start with one pistol, one shotgun and one rifle. Many clubs had loaner weapons, because getting started was a big outlay. |
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Shooting downloaded bullets always seemed like cheating to me. |
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Saying "posse is a squad" isn't telling me any more. What's a squad? In the other shooting events I've done, IDPA, 3-Gun, Steel Challenge. You are solo. So... I'm still not understanding what about cowboy action shooting is a team event. I've observed it a couple times if anything was team oriented it wasn't obvious. Squad, posse = the people that shoot with you If you are on a squad or posse with a shitbird, they won't reset targets or otherwise help out. |
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This could help rekindle some interest. The new Western "movie." And believe me some gamers are avid shooters. Attached File |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - s/o Why has Cowboy Action Shooting lost so much popularity in the U.S. ? (Poll added) (Page 4 of 10)
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