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Posted: 3/29/2022 8:35:38 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It wouldnt be a instant increase. It takes years to get more production going. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 8:36:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Thats what happens when you place profits over country.
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Posted: 3/29/2022 8:39:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm good with them destroying their environment. Ya!!! Screw that other planet they live on…. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 8:47:52 AM EDT
[#4]
I tried to order a set of headers for my RAM truck from AFE in California.
Two weeks after charging my card they sent me an email to let me know that production of the headers I'd ordered was nothing less than 16 weeks out (at the earliest). They cite the reason for their inability to fill orders as NO RAW STEEL on hand....which IMO means they buy their steel from overseas. I'm glad they gave me the option for a refund without any BS "restocking fees." These businesses should buy American steel. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 8:49:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the lack of quality control US Steel > Chinese Steel I don't want my bridge built out of Chinese steel.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 8:59:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the Chinese sub hulls made of? Garbage welded by substandard welders following Chinese engineers direction. We don’t have to take it to seriously. Except for trade. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This stuff. But we are probably not taking the threat seriously. What are the Chinese sub hulls made of? Garbage welded by substandard welders following Chinese engineers direction. We don’t have to take it to seriously. Except for trade. No, probably from steel made by people whose entire families will be tortured to death if it doesn't meet spec when checked. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 9:14:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Zeihan talked about it in an older video below. Entire video is worth watching if you have around 35 minutes (watch it at 1.5x).
Steel talk starts about 40 minutes in.  Keynote - Peter Zeihan - 2019 |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:00:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These days you get what you can get. I have steel that was ordered 6 months ago and won't get here until July. The entire fucking world is out. Asia, Europe, here...nothing..its not even a rare specialty. Just high carbon. The steel market right now is a dumpster fire I know a few "scrappers" that have been making some serious bank for the last year due to steel scrap bringing upwards of $300+/ton at the scrapyard... When life...lemons...something...something...make lemonade...and sell it... |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:00:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both SDI and Nucor have a minimill west of Indy, both are running. They make bank with production bonuses. This. Nucor I think is at Pittsboro and the other one is near C’ville. Glad Nucor is back up. TC |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:03:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Nucor I think is at Pittsboro and the other one is near C'ville. Glad Nucor is back up. TC SDI is in Pittsboro, can see it from I-74, Nucor is in Crawfordsville. Nucor got REAL slow but never shutdown, SDI may have shutdown for awhile, not sure. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:06:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FCCP I’m making as much steel as I can. You are God damned right we are , well in my case Alloy but still |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:48:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SDI is in Pittsboro, can see it from I-74, Nucor is in Crawfordsville. Nucor got REAL slow but never shutdown, SDI may have shutdown for awhile, not sure. I can’t remember the last time we went to a one caster operation. (Half capacity). It has been years since that’s happened. Recently we have taken a few longer scheduled down times. I heard that it was basically a transportation issue, not being able to get coils shipped out. Anytime I talk to the new hires, I tell them the same thing. Plan your budget and expenses based on a 36 hour check. And put back money when you get the 48 hour checks or extra overtime. Back in 2008, the melt shop manger told guys that he probably wouldn’t be going out and buying new trucks right then. That kinda resonated with me. Recently my employer actually started a advertising campaign to get new hires. Nobody wants to work? ????? |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:56:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facks. US is still a manufacturing powerhouse. Why would we want to make steel when we can let the other guys do this. https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WorldManufacturing.png Lol |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:59:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't remember the last time we went to a one caster operation. (Half capacity). It has been years since that's happened. Recently we have taken a few longer scheduled down times. I heard that it was basically a transportation issue, not being able to get coils shipped out. Anytime I talk to the new hires, I tell them the same thing. Plan your budget and expenses based on a 36 hour check. And put back money when you get the 48 hour checks or extra overtime. Back in 2008, the melt shop manger told guys that he probably wouldn't be going out and buying new trucks right then. That kinda resonated with me. Recently my employer actually started a advertising campaign to get new hires. Nobody wants to work? This would have been 2016 ish maybe? Going off memory, take it with a grain of salt  We're having trouble getting everything right now. Either stuff has been obsoleted, not in stock and long lead times, or transportation issues getting it here. We've been doing the same, raising pay, bonuses, advertising, etc. Just trying to get people in the door. Have 100+ openings right now. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 12:03:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Wow, I'm surprised Russia is so low and that Japan is even in there, let alone so big!
The rest is well known and, yes, sickening. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 12:04:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't there a mini- or micro-mill in Decatur? Nucor? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have long maintained that if we had to refight WW II, we could not do so. We can't produce quantity like we used to. Something like only 3 steel mills left in our nation. There are two in south Alabama and some are still operating around Birmingham. Not familiar with the Decatur area, but it wouldn’t surprise me. The two we have are SSAB and AM/NS. AM/NS is a really big mill. When it opened they eventually had to run ads in Pennsylvania and Ohio to get enough people to get it operating. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 12:06:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If only we recently had a man in charge who was trying to change this chart... Tariffs are a tax on the consumer NOT the producer. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 12:09:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facks. US is still a manufacturing powerhouse. Why would we want to make steel when we can let the other guys do this. https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WorldManufacturing.png We have higher manufacturing per capita... think about that for a second. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 12:10:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tariffs are a tax on the consumer NOT the producer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If only we recently had a man in charge who was trying to change this chart... Tariffs are a tax on the consumer NOT the producer. Bullshit. A dollar leaves the country, it leaves. A dollar stays in the country, it gets spent in the country or deposited in the bank where it can be lent out to be spent again. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 1:39:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, I'm surprised Russia is so low and that Japan is even in there, let alone so big! The rest is well known and, yes, sickening. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:06:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's amazing how much difference a total lack of environmental regs makes. Commie Boss - "Reallocate that batch to USA structural steel. Get another Wang from the camps." |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:08:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facks. US is still a manufacturing powerhouse. Why would we want to make steel when we can let the other guys do this. https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WorldManufacturing.png Vertical integration |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:12:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we did but he was mean on Twitter and we can't have that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If only we recently had a man in charge who was trying to change this chart... we did but he was mean on Twitter and we can't have that. I am a man of principles. Roasting someone on twitter is unbecoming of a President and makes them unfit for office. Tranny kids, propaganda news, and communist infiltration of our education system are small trade-offs compared to triggering people's sensitivities on twitter. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:15:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Western global fascists (US, Canada, EU etc) vs Eastern communists and a Russian Nationalist. Throw in an angry-at-the-West Middle East and you can start to predict pinpoints from graphics like in the OP
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:23:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tariffs are a tax on the consumer NOT the producer. That doesn't mean you shouldn't encourage domestic production. Tariffs, tax breaks, I don't care how it's done but having the ability to fend for yourself in the world is going to become increasingly important. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:27:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quantity vs Quality.
Chinese steel seems to be crap, would you prefer a German steel knife or Chinese? One of the welders at work told me he could always tell when it was Chinese steel as it would flare up and sputter when he hit the impurities in it. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:29:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  not to mention engineering..........https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/60489/chicom_building_JPG-2329788.JPG Sssshhhhhhhh! It's just sleeping
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:33:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we did but he was mean on Twitter and we can't have that. No, because that is just so important... 
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:39:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Western global fascists (US, Canada, EU etc) vs Eastern communists and a Russian Nationalist. Throw in an angry-at-the-West Middle East and you can start to predict pinpoints from graphics like in the OP Quoted for the Record... "Western Global Fascists (US, Canada EU) Vs. Russian Nationalist ... "  Attached FileBIGGER_HAMMER  |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:42:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quantity vs Quality. Chinese steel seems to be crap, would you prefer a German steel knife or Chinese? One of the welders at work told me he could always tell when it was Chinese steel as it would flare up and sputter when he hit the impurities in it. Does German steel exist anymore? China bought alot of their smelters and shipped em out.... |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:44:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facks. US is still a manufacturing powerhouse. Why would we want to make steel when we can let the other guys do this. https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WorldManufacturing.png This, seems like 90% of GD skipped economics class in high school and college. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:45:00 PM EDT
[#32]
china is building a lot of empty skyscrapers... we are using less steel as a percentage of overall things we used to use steel for as well
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:50:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Been in the structural steel business 30 years or so. Almost all of our customers require US rolled steel for chemical plants and refineries. Power plants not so much. Get exemptions for some alloys that are in low supply at certain times and that's normally it. Had to buy some truplex for the first time and it was shipped from Belgium but that's been a long time ago. Lot of A36 and it's structural equivilant though it's minimum 50ksi now. C726 plate for power plants. Last order of bulk C276 the mill wanted to know if we wanted to contract back to sell our drop (scrap).
Did an exhaust duct for an electric arc furnance at a mini bill, Bayou Steel a number of years ago. Really bad off mill. It's now out of business entirely. Was owned by Accra Mittel or however you spell it. A mill in the US they shipped all their metric sized steel from Europe to redo the plant. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:56:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're witnessing the greatest transfer of wealth in human history. Currently we're trading cheaply made Chinese goods for US farmland. That would have been the US sending Billions & Billions to the Arabs for oil. Ever wonder HOW the Saudi's, Kuwaiti's, Abu Daubi's, Bahrainis and the others built those massive gleaming cities in the desert filled with all those exotic cars & luxuries?  The US could be fully independent, if we had the National Will & National Policies to do so. Currently, our Policies are "Free Market" (AKA destroy it all to make the numbers look good for next quarters financial numbers to get that big stock bonus)... Just look to see how We allow our Energy Production to rise to great output & then fall hard into a crash with bankruptcies & ruin, only for "others" to sweep in with sovereign funds and buy up the pieces (leases & infrastructure) for pennies on the dollar... Next time around, THEY get the profits off OUR oil... We lack any comprehensive policy to stabilize our markets (which other nations do not lack) - (in fact our current laws & tax policy still encourage our business & financial system toward "De-industrialization" & continual outsourcing of jobs & production instead of "build the plant here, make the product here & pay Americans here". Until that gets fixed, everything else is just window dressing & hot air. BIGGER_HAMMER |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 3:00:35 PM EDT
[#35]
kinda curious about steel usage and who's using the most, vs buying vs importing.
another story to be told there as well, I think we'd see our manufacturing is lagging behind worse than our steel production. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 3:40:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does German steel exist anymore? China bought alot of their smelters and shipped em out.... |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 4:39:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does German steel exist anymore? China bought alot of their smelters and shipped em out.... Quoted: Yes the big ones, and it's good stuff. The swedish make nice steel as well.  The Germans can't make an anvil that doesn't have 8 different movable parts that must each be precision fitted, but they DO make GOOD Stuff!! BIGGER_HAMMER
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Posted: 3/29/2022 5:06:02 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 3/29/2022 8:29:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/13256246.jpg The Germans can't make an anvil that doesn't have 8 different movable parts that must each be precision fitted, but they DO make GOOD Stuff!! BIGGER_HAMMER |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 10:46:54 PM EDT
[#40]
The big boys shut down the big mills in the US and investing in mini mills years ago. Pure greed. Nothing else. I buy truckload quantities of cold finished steel from Nucor, Eaton and other mills on a regular basis. Lead times are getting longer and longer. 4140-4150 is getting tougher to find. a lot of the mini mills get their hot stock from Europe and cold draw in US. Stainless is getting really ugly. Import aluminum plate has dried up. I buy a lot of 7075 plate. Lead time is 6 months plus.
It is not unusual to get material made in Italy, Germany, UK, Russia, China, etc.. We have not seen any quality issues with the material and a lot of it has been used for aerospace (seating and cabin components). I am not a fan of China and would rather buy domestic material but not all cost savings come from cheap labor. China has invested heavily in automation and the latest technology to lower cost. On the other hand, they are pretty free to pollute and have plenty of government subsidies. The tariffs seemed like a good idea but backfired. They gave domestic suppliers an excuse for a free for all on price increases. A lot like Obamacare. It may have sounded like a good idea to some but it gave insurance companies the opportunity to increase prices every way they could. Our customers want a price cut even though they know prices are going up all the time and somehow we have to keep material coming in. I buy $ 5-6 million in steel and aluminum every year and it gets tougher every year. Fortyseven2n |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:16:20 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have long maintained that if we had to refight WW II, we could not do so. We can't produce quantity like we used to. Something like only 3 steel mills left in our nation. Says who? There’s a lot more than that. When I started, the mill I worked at in 1990 was rejected 5-10% of what it produced every day. Some got reworked by sending it to an outside processor to fix however - depended on what was wrong with it, other got downgraded. Some sold as secondary. The worst stuff sent back to remelt as scrap. By the time I left that mill almost eight years later the rejection rate was under 0.5%. That’s huge. And they used to be much worse. Like 25% reworked, downgraded , or scrapped. Mills are more automated now. There are computers with learning models that set up the mill for different grades and sizes. Not guy with his little frayed black book with all sorts of notes on setups. That lots of the time involved some (educated) guesses. So there’s less people on the floor to make the same ton of steel than there used to be. Mini mills are replacing the big integrated mills. They are often even more efficient. And they tend not to have as much dead weight in the offices as the old big steel companies. Often no union too, but they tend to be compensated quite nicely, at least when orders are good. When I started the big mills had the automotive sheet locked up. Metallurgically the deep drawn quality sheet had to come from blast furnace and BOF shop made steel. Because it was cleaner than the electric furnace melted steel in the mini mills like Nucor and SDI. But that may not be completely true any more. I’ve moved on to Working in other metals from carbon steel. There’s been a lot of consolidation, maybe too much and it’s not always for the best, whether carbon steel or specialty metals. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:24:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are two in south Alabama and some are still operating around Birmingham. Nucor has several big plate mills. Arcelor or Cleveland Cliffs, not sure who owns what in Burns Harbor has one. And the old Lukens Coatesville Plate mill still runs. They make a lot of the military and ship steel armor like the HY100 and they used to roll a lot of titanium armor plate for other companies there. The company I work for makes stainless, nickel, titanium, and zirconium plate in Washington Pa. There are some smaller company plate mills around. Not sure what’s on the west coast An Indian company JSW operates a big plate mill in Baytown TX They can make most of the steel needed, for what can be built nowadays . But there aren’t the shipyards that are going to be cranking out a ship a day, or a destroyer a week. There are going to be any aircraft manufacturers rolling out a Couple dozen fighter jets a day. Or tanks. Rumsfeld was right even though the MSM hated what he said - you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:27:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No big deal. Steel isn't a strategic asset or anything... More wreckage left from jimmy carter. Let’s become a service economy.... |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:34:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I made absolutely fuckin sure the 4130 getting cut for my fuselage was US or Germany sourced. The guys cutting it with the laser don't like cutting the chinese tube come to find out... Yep- my first response to that chart in the first post was “now do one only for qualify alloys that manufacturers want to use in critical industry.” My only major experience with chinese vs US steel was 4130. Chinese stuff behaved different and cracked when bent, despite being supposedly the same temper as the US stuff (that had become unavailable at the time). As typical with China, it doesn’t matter what they say or write on it, what mattered was what it really was, and who fucking knows what that really was. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:35:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No more steel in Bethlehem, PA. There is a casino there now that ironically attracts a large number of Chinese people to it. There is also a Walmart and QVC warehouse on former land that undoubtedly holds a bunch of Chinese goods.  I think there is still a forge press there. Maybe. Was as of a few years ago anyways. I remember way back my freshman year at Lehigh. 1984. You could hear the forge banging on stuff at night. Big hammer press of some sort. Every night. Soot on the buildings. And the glow of the blast furnaces and melt shops. Then less noise at nights in the spring. Next fall it ran just a couple night a week. But when I started college I didn’t even know what a metallurgist was. My Dad said you need to be an electrical engineer. Well that just wasn’t working out for me. Thank God I took a technical elective taught by a research engineer PHD from Bethlehem Steel. They still had their research lab on top of the mountain, back then. Now Lehigh owns the building . That one class changed my life, completely. Seeing films of plate mills and forges, melt shops. Even though I was from Pittsburgh area I never had any inside exposure to the mills here my entire childhood. I really found my calling I guess. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:43:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't there a mini- or micro-mill in Decatur? Nucor? They have a couple around there. Melt shop and hot rolling mill I think on the north side, and a cold rolling/finishing plant for coils the south shore of the big lake. I was at that one a couple times. It was owned by Worthington Steel then Also went to their mill in Tuscaloosa several times too. We had them roll titanium coils on it. They like to roll 199” wide coils in plate thicknesses, and they were rolling our skinny 50” wide coils to 1/8” thick on that beast of a mill. We even had them roll some high strength beta alloy coils there. They just put in a new coiler and at first it was pulling that stuff apart like a giant tensile machine, 125ksi yield strength stuff. Wanted to see a Alabama football game on one of my trips, but the timing didn’t work out. If I had no ties I would’ve applied for a position at their new big 160” plate mill in KY. But startups can be a drag on any life outside the mill for a couple years. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:50:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Imported some steel from Japan. 30m long hyperbeams. MHI Mitsubishi Heavy Industries out of Japan was the engineering firm and that's what they specced. Just turning the damn things around in the shop and yard were a pain in the ass. Shipped to Houston and then by truck to San Antonio for fabrication then back to just outside Houston for a carbon capture project at a coal plant. Partially EPA (taxpayer) funded.
A lot of our everyday stuff does come from Alabama. |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:54:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm good with them destroying their environment. There is only one environment and we all share it. By the way almost all climate change is natural. 
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Posted: 3/29/2022 11:56:47 PM EDT
[#49]
OSHA and the EPA hate us steel along with every other regulatory body.
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Posted: 3/30/2022 12:00:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep- my first response to that chart in the first post was “now do one only for qualify alloys that manufacturers want to use in critical industry.” My only major experience with chinese vs US steel was 4130. Chinese stuff behaved different and cracked when bent, despite being supposedly the same temper as the US stuff (that had become unavailable at the time). As typical with China, it doesn’t matter what they say or write on it, what mattered was what it really was, and who fucking knows what that really was. I’ll bet there’s only maybe two US mills making 4130 coil now (assuming it’s welded tube, not seamless drawn tube), And one of them is Russian owned, up in Sharon Pa (and they have another mill in Portage, IN). I don’t think the big mills want to bother with the grade, as nobody’s buying a 250 Ton heat of it in one shot. And you get bad intermix on either side of the caster strand, that would be good for much if anything. I think when I was at US Steel I saw one or two heats but that was before they shut down the ladle teeming and slab mill, and switched completely over to concast We were Hot rolling a lot for them a year or two ago. They were buying slabs from all over, high carbon, 4130, 4340. But were cut off from the Russian slabs. But then they pulled it nearly all back in house. They were on strike for a while too and then settled, so maybe that’s why they quit toll rolling. Maybe Nucor or SDI makes some 4130?, since their electric furnaces are going to be smaller than the typical integrated BOF by at least a half. |
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