I can agree with that. I was in Az this past summer visiting the retirees, and stepped on a rattler. I've never jumped so high in my life. It never buzzed. A few years prior to that I killed an aggressive one chasing and striking at my friend. I've also been "herded" or chased by a rattler all this happened in SE Arizona.

.40 S&W; 180 grain Hornady XTP.

Its AZ, why aren't you carrying a rifle? The places you're talking about are rifle country anyways. Coyotes carry AK's.

I take my G19 on more "local" hikes. Eventually I'll pick up a G20.

.22LR

I'm in The Everglades several times every week and have loads of snake and gator pictures but I never had any need for a "snake gun".

There are occasional cotton mouths in the bass pond right outside my kitchen door and I fish in there almost every day and never needed a snake gun.

If you don't see a snake in time to avoid him and he hits you, what good is a snake gun?

If you can move away to avoid being bitten you don't need a snake gun.

If you can see the snake in time to avoid him entirely you don't need a snake gun.

You don't need a snake gun.

Did the Cholla Cactus jump at you as well?  

This kind of makes the case for CCW Insurance

AR pistol and a D60 to fight off an angry squadron of Javelinas.

The Hornady factory load with that bullet underperforms compared to the .40 HST

If it's southern AZ in the mountains especially within 50mi of the border, it better be 5.56 or greater, you may not see them, but it's likely you're being watched. Even then you can get by with a 9mm if it's daytime and you stay away from migrants, peak vantage points or anything that looks suspicious.

Snakes can be a problem, but by the time you can react and shoot you're either already bitten or are able to avoid. I've heard stories of rattlers following people and being aggressive, 9mm should take care of that. Other than that it's wolves, coyotes, bears, bobcats and mountain lions all of which a 9mm should take care of in the proper loading. I've only needed snake-shot when working with horses/mules or dogs and in that case the Judge does work nice.

It's legal to hike/work with a rifle so why not a 5.56, or better 6.5 Grendel AR?

I don't need and don't have a "snake gun" but I do need and have, shot shells for my "regular guns".
I've never killed a snake out in the wilderness, that's just where they live and do their snake thing.

But when they are in the areas where my kids play, they get shot.
They seem to love the shade of the trampoline. They also like getting under my porch steps, snuggling up against the house, bugging the dogs, lounging under the cars/trucks. Then they have to go and out comes a regular gun with snake ammo.
Assuming they're rattlers, we don't bother the bull snakes, racers, etc.

So some of us do rightly kill some snakes.
I agree that a gun for snake protection in the wilderness is silly in almost every case.

Correct. I carry a Ruger Vaquero .357 with the first round being snake shot. My neighbor killed a rattler just a few days ago.

The Kingman AZ PD shot a juvenile black bear (downtown) a few years ago with a 5.56 AR, they ended up killing it with a Chevy Tahoe.
I would of used a Suburban or Yukon XL, but that's just me.

Every lion I’ve killed has been shot with a .22 centerfire. All reacted the same. Jumped 4-6 feet straight up then ran 20-40 yards till they figured out they were dead. Lions die easier than most coyotes. Lol!

It's AZ, not Syria or bear country Alaska.  Just whatever you typically carry will be fine.

I always felt safe with a Glock 17. I’m sure a 10mm would be just fine.

this. a good quality sidearm, and know how/ when to use it.

Mountain lions are only ~3' tall at the shoulders, they aren't particularly massive, and they are very quick. A big, slow .44 would not by my choice in that scenario. I'd rather carry a standard service pistol cartridge like 9mm or .40 so I can get on target faster and make follow up shots faster.

Big bores are cool for bigger and tougher threats, but I would value speed over power against a 100 pound kitty cat.

As I said, I *do* need one.  Have needed one.  Will continue to need one.

If you are south of the 8, same with 2-3 spare D60s in case of smugglers.

Crew served weapons would be handy in case you cross paths with the Mexican army shepherding a dope shipment across.

Well funny how this question and silly answers are brought up when the real killer are Africanized killer bees.

Our rattlesnakes are not contractually obligated to rattle.

You really have to not be paying attention to get get bit by rattlesnek. They don't generally engage unless they have to, and the adults will mostly only give humans a dry bite. Juveniles are different. They will rock your world.

Now javelina? Thems are nasty bastages. 44 mag or 10mm will do it. 9mm won't.

For the most part if you are in the wild and keep situational awareness you won't have any problems.

Illegals, though. Those are a different problem.

LOL

Thin skinned small game 40-90 pounds.

When I'm hiking, I just pocket a Glock 43 with https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388 (also available in other calibers...but I'm not in grizzly country)

I'm pretty sure he was making a joke, at least I hope so.

Nonsense.

If you see a snake and you have time to draw your gun, then you also have time to just get out off his way and leave him alone.

I promise, he isn't going to catch your scent then hunt you down while you are sleeping.

You can't guarantee that.

For self defense against humans the HST loading offers superior expansion,  but the XTP is the better hunting bullet.

Then we agree on all points.

About 1/3 desert and certainly no wasteland.



Mike

I’ll contend that around the house having a “snake gun” is justified...but no...not out in the desert/wild.

Usually true.

180 XTP 19.5” PEN .50” EXP

180 HST 18.4” PEN .723” EXP

I’m not sure the XTPs additional 1.1” of penetration is worth the much smaller wound channel

I've lived here for 22 years, all of my adult life, and I spend a lot of time outside.

Very rarely will a snake be a problem, and when it is, it is almost always in the spring when they're just getting out and trying to warm themselves in the trail and you can't bypass it. I feel no need to carry snakeshot.

With rare exception, our animals aren't that big. Yes, there are bears, including one last year sighted within 2 miles of my house. But they aren't that big by Black Bear standards. Most everything else is easily dealt handled with any service pistol load. Coyotes that are no longer afraid of humans is probably your #1 problem. Javelina, while obnoxious, I've never had an issue with, and the really obnoxious ones are the ones that have migrated into town, where you're less likely to be open carrying a 44 mag anyway. (Yes, it's legal. No, it's not common, at least not anymore, not even in the mountain towns.)

The one thing that you are most likely to encounter that is dangerous are coyotes of the human variety. Human Smugglers for the most part, bringing in illegal immigrants. If this happens, you are most likely going to be badly outnumbered... but possibly not outgunned. While drug runners may be well armed, the guys running people are less likely to be. What they might have is a dozen or so desperate people. I've been there, and I firmly believe that the presence of an open-carried 1911 dissuaded them from just taking what they wanted, though the Smugglers clearly wanted the immigrants to do it anyway.

It also convinced me that a high-cap 9mm is the way to go. 8 just wasn't going to be enough. I'd rather be a little short on hitting power against the very largest animals here than a little short on ammo against the far more likely smuggler encounter.

The farther north you get, the less likely it is that you'll have a problem with smugglers. That said... mine was far closer to Phoenix than it was to the border.

----

As an aside, because it was mentioned above... it took a couple years, and a couple law changes, but Harold Fish got out on appeal. That case was, IMO, Prosecutorial and Judicial Misconduct, and the appeals court agreed. I wouldn't view our laws negatively in that regard... you can convict a lot of people if you don't allow them to present any evidence that favors their innocence and only allow evidence that favors their conviction. The case was sent back for trial and the new prosecutor dropped the case rather than retry it. There are lessons to be learned there, but I wouldn't draw conclusions about our laws from it.

Jesus.

Snakes? You pussies need a gun for snakes? Bears? Lions? LOL Wtf. Have you spent any time outdoors?

I’d be much, much more worried about people than animals. 9mm is all you need for that.

Born and raised here - hardly a wasteland. The desert is beautiful in her own way, beautiful and deadly. I've been all over this state and we have dang near every type of terrain found anywhere else, with the exception of coastline and permafrost! In over 50 years of tramping around the desert I have run into ONE mountain lion, and that was actually two weeks ago, hauling ass across Bataglia Drive, obviously late for a very important date down in the res. I have run across many snakes, and one was actually hunting me and my buddy as we were dove hunting at the Florence Junction. A few rounds of 38 snake shot and he became my buddies dinner. I have run into countless javalina, and if not threatened, they tend to have one watch you while the rest of the herd moves through, or they scatter. Do NOT hit one with your car - giant rodent is very dense and will ruin your car. I have never seen a bear on Mount Lemmon or any other place, but I know they are there - years and year ago a local disc jockey used his personal 44 Mag to run off a black bear that attacked a young lady.
I have not run into any coyotes, two legged kind, yet, but I haven't been out hunting along the infamous drug corridor, a few miles from my home, and have no reason to "poke the bear". 4 legged coyotes are vermin and I won't hesitate to drop one if I get the chance. I have friends with small farms and animal husbandry who suffer depredations yearly. That and rabbits are about the animals you will see in abundance.
If you truly want to learn about the Arizona desert, the best possible place to go is the Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum on Kinney road east of Tucson. Go when it's cool, as it is a large outdoor/indoor setup, and will keep you and yours entertained and informed for hours. Well worth the trip for new comers to our wonderful state. And, as always, for law abiding US citizens, concealed and open carry of any lawful firearm is legal without permit, so if you want to go woods walking on land NOT a national monument, (Saguaro National Monument is a no gun zone), then by all means, enjoy in god health. Please don't leave any trash behind, and come back often.

Almost always.  Sometimes not though.

My Glock 27 sees a lot more trail use than my Glock 20.

Semi urban jogging/bike trails that go through freeway underpasses are becoming transient housing complexes.

I was deer hunting along the mexican border around the time they captured that photo of the jaguar years back, the tuna can eating smugglers were my only concern.

Where do you do the majority of your rock climbing?

Central Arizona, in and around the Sedona area.

4/5 dessert wasteland? Lol, where do you guys get this shit from?

Right?!? He crammed a lotta fail into one post.

I'm guessing the majority of the rattlesnakes you see on your climbs are blacktailed rattlesnakes.

Silver bullets?  Are werewolves a known threat in Arizona?

No, he is right!!  It is an evil, hot, wasteland!!

And everything is sharp, even pretty things. (not kidding here)
Attached File

Over our travels we have probably spotted 5 or 6 different types.  Herpetology is not my thing and they are noted in passing only.   I can count on one hand the number I have killed, and those only becasue I was climbing and needed the perch that they were on.  Never been chased by any, nor, while on the ground have I ever had any problem walking around one.

Get a couple of hundred feet up, on a vertical face, and it really does come down to the snake or me.