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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:35:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you know CPR? Do you know how to control an airway? Are you just going to administer it and wait? At what point do you call EMS? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: As I said, I still have more research to do, but my understand at the moment is that there are no serious side effects if the person doesn't have an opiate in their system. Just like with deadly force, deciding when to use it would be pretty simple when you get down to it - you use it when you have no other choice and reasonably believe that failing to do so would result in death or serious injury. I know how to position someone's head and neck to maximize airflow, but not beyond that. I can't think of any circumstance where I or my wife wouldn't be on the phone with 911 before any other steps were taken. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:36:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I know CPR. I've not been certified and it's been years since my training, and I should go through a refresher course. I know how to position someone's head and neck to maximize airflow, but not beyond that. I can't think of any circumstance where I or my wife wouldn't be on the phone with 911 before any other steps were taken. Bro worry less about being a hero. CPR training would go farther |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:36:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's a nasal spray Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No way I am injecting anyone with anything Edit* if unconscious * |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:37:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not what the OP is talking about. Says syringe and says for injection Can be administered either way. Nasal device screws on the end of the syringe. Or it can be used as an injection. All that said, I think OP would be better off getting some first responder or EMT training than just throwing narcan in his bag. Not too mention that if you do give it to some junkie and take away their high, you'll have a whole different set of problems to deal with. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:39:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Youre not certified in CPR but you want to inject people with narcan? Bro worry less about being a hero. CPR training would go farther Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yes, I know CPR. I've not been certified and it's been years since my training, and I should go through a refresher course. I know how to position someone's head and neck to maximize airflow, but not beyond that. I can't think of any circumstance where I or my wife wouldn't be on the phone with 911 before any other steps were taken. Bro worry less about being a hero. CPR training would go farther |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:39:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can be administered either way. Nasal device screws on the end of the syringe. Or it can be used as an injection. All that said, I think OP would be better off getting some first responder or EMT training than just throwing narcan in his bag. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Not what the OP is talking about. Says syringe and says for injection All that said, I think OP would be better off getting some first responder or EMT training than just throwing narcan in his bag. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:39:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not EMS, but I've performed the Heimlich maneuver successfully once. I'm not a cop, but I've used a firearm to protect the innocent before. How is this any different? |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:41:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are getting it to use on yourself or a loved one in case of accidental contact then good on you. Dont get it to use on some rando. If something goes wrong your gonna pay out the ass in a lawsuit. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:42:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are getting it to use on yourself or a loved one in case of accidental contact then good on you. Dont get it to use on some rando. Also, the injectors are 2 mg (give 1 mg each nostril). My protocols at work call for 0.4 mg for a reason. The point of narcan is give just enough to bring back their spontaneous breathing. They hopefully will remain unconscious. The point of narcan is not to wake them up. Also, the effects of the opioid often outlast the effects of the narcan. That means that further treatment is often necessary, including repeat doses. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:42:27 PM EDT
[#10]
I'd really rather have an epipen, but they are expensive, have a short shelf life, and aren't over the counter. I could see myself being around someone who needs that long before narcan.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:43:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Sounds like OP doesn't like the answers and is going to get it anyway.
I think you're opening a can of worms without formal training. Reading about it isn't going to cut it either. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:45:32 PM EDT
[#12]
If you are asking for opinions of others, I think it is a horrible idea to use on a stranger and/or of you don't know what you are doing. I wouldn't.
As I understand it removes all effects almost instantly and the stranger you just applied it to is going to be....rather unpleasant with you being the closest person to them. It's putting yourself in a situation you probably don't want to be in. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:45:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd really rather have an epipen, but they are expensive, have a short shelf life, and aren't over the counter. I could see myself being around someone who needs that long before narcan. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:47:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like OP doesn't like the answers and is going to get it anyway. I think you're opening a can of worms without formal training. Reading about it isn't going to cut it either. I posted to see if anything comes up that I hadn't considered. It did, and the thread has served its purpose. Now I'm just hanging around instead of doing real work :) |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:47:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I'm putting together a car kit for each of my vehicles, and happened to see a tweet go by this morning that mentioned Narcan was available OTC. I was of the understanding that it was hundreds of dollars, but a little research showed that while the nasal spray is ~$150, naloxone can be had in syringe form for $20.99. I don't think it's likely that I'd need it, but at the same time I recognize that it's possible that a kid could come in contact with fentanyl or carfentanil these days, and my understanding is that a lethal dose of those can be absorbed through the skin fairly easily. For $20, it seems like a reasonable precaution. I have more research on it to do before I'll feel confident in my understanding, but from what I'm reading now it could at least give you time to get someone to the hospital. 
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:49:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have an epipen in each vehicle already, though none of my family has known allergies. They expire in a few months and if I can't find more cheap or free I likely won't replace them. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:49:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm getting exactly the answers I expected, by and large. I've been around here long enough to know that most in GD would fall into two camps: "Druggies should all die anyhow", and "You're gonna get sued". I posted to see if anything comes up that I hadn't considered. It did, and the thread has served its purpose. Now I'm just hanging around instead of doing real work :) |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:51:38 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:52:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well when the medical professionals get sued for doing their job, and theyre trained, well I take note Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm getting exactly the answers I expected, by and large. I've been around here long enough to know that most in GD would fall into two camps: "Druggies should all die anyhow", and "You're gonna get sued". I posted to see if anything comes up that I hadn't considered. It did, and the thread has served its purpose. Now I'm just hanging around instead of doing real work :) I generally don't live in fear of being sued, but for this subject in particular it's completely irrelevant. I see no circumstance where I'd use it while simultaneous giving a shit about getting sued afterward. I'm not going to put myself at risk to try and save someone from themselves, and I'm willing to risk blood and fortune to save the life of an innocent. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:53:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Uh, no.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:53:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Fuck Narcan.
Ban it. Let Darwin win. 
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Posted: 4/5/2018 2:55:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that. I generally don't live in fear of being sued, but for this subject in particular it's completely irrelevant. I see no circumstance where I'd use it while simultaneous giving a shit about getting sued afterward. I'm not going to put myself at risk to try and save someone from themselves, and I'm willing to risk blood and fortune to save the life of an innocent. You should always be concerned with your well being even in a heat of the moment sort of situation. Too many good people get fucked for doing the right thing, and that's why we are having this convo. My honest opinion is youre setting yourself up for failure trying to be a good guy. That's all I got |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:01:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They hopefully will remain unconscious. The point of narcan is not to wake them up. I hear they’re seldom pleased with someone bumming their high. FF buddies have told me they’ve narcaned the same guy 2x in a day (separate incidents) - wasn’t any more appreciative the second time. 
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:04:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Op's car will be broken into for the narcan by junkie he is trying to save.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:05:58 PM EDT
[#25]
No I don't. No I wouldn't.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:05:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get that. I generally don't live in fear of being sued, but for this subject in particular it's completely irrelevant. I see no circumstance where I'd use it while simultaneous giving a shit about getting sued afterward. I'm not going to put myself at risk to try and save someone from themselves, and I'm willing to risk blood and fortune to save the life of an innocent. My advice to you would be to forget the narcan and if you find yourself in that situation and feel the need to intervene then call 911 and monitor the person. If it becomes necessary, perform CPR. If they've taken a dose that puts them in arrest then only one dose of narcan probably wasn't going to help anyway. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:06:19 PM EDT
[#27]
That's about #6874367875 on my list of things to be prepared for in my emergency kit
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:08:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Nope.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:08:19 PM EDT
[#29]
LOL, no.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:08:31 PM EDT
[#30]
A bvm cost 18 bucks on Amazon much more useful.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:09:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Nope, my kit is for my family.
And No, no Narcan. Before I retired, I worked LEO for over 30 years, and had to assist EMS mnay more times than I can count with many things. On the limited number of times I was there when a medic had to administer Narcan, the results were usually violent when the hairball came out of it and realized that you had taken their high away. I am not not going to subject myself, my family, or others to that type of violence. If they OD on Opiods, I will call those who are the professionals to deal with it, I tried over the years to help out, but if they purposely do it, then so be it. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:09:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Unless you are a paramedic or assisting someone with their own prescribed medicine such as epi, injecting someone with medication will land you in a world of shit. Don't even dream of it. Good Samaritan law doesn't cover random jow blow off the streets with absolutely zero medical training sticking people with syringes. It Would be no different than me as an EMT basic deciding to give someone a crichothyrotomy.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:09:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Op's car will be broken into for the narcan by junkie he is trying to save. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:09:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Narcan has no contraindication in its application. If you give it to someone who is not ODing, it won't harm them.
Yes, at times, people may become combative, or they may not. Narcan is not a one hit and done thing. If you use Narcan on someone , medical treatment is still necessary, as it may not have been enough of a dose, and/or the Narcan can wear off before the opioids clear. I would recommend against using Narcan on random strangers. That is for you to decide however. I carry Narcan for use on myself and associates if we have an accidental opioid exposure. The nasal spray is the easiest way for a layperson to deliver Narcan, in my opinion. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:11:31 PM EDT
[#35]
New product idea...narcan tipped taser electrodes.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:11:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How are you to know they are innocent? From what I hear junkies get pretty pissed off after losing their high due to narcan. Whatever, its ARFCOM; OP gonna do what OP gonna do. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:14:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why the fuck would a junkie want Narcan? |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:15:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No way I am injecting anyone with anything Edit* if unconscious * |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:17:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don’t save drug addicts. And if your kid comes into contact it your not being a stand up parent. @jjcrt263b |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:18:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Im not a Doctor.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:20:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't touch an addict that looks like they've ODed - too much chance for cross-contamination, as others have mentioned. As for liability, Arkansas has a good samaritan law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nah, I'm not too worried about saving pillheads, needle brains, etc. and I'm not medically trained to administer anything to someone who might be a legitimate accidental overdose. As for liability, Arkansas has a good samaritan law. What happens if you miss diagnose this person, your children included, and introduce something to them that really fucks them up because you are not trained to know what you are looking at? You good with that? Im not. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:20:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd really rather have an epipen, but they are expensive, have a short shelf life, and aren't over the counter. I could see myself being around someone who needs that long before narcan. I have no interest in carrying Narcan in my personal IFAK... I just can't imagine a scenario where it would make sense to use. But I have been in situations where I really wished to have an epi-pen available. But they are a pain in the ass to get. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:22:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Gloves and masks.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:24:21 PM EDT
[#44]
OP, no AED yet?
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:27:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why the fuck would a junkie want Narcan? If you aren't trained on it, don't get it. If you aren't around dopers full time don't worry about it. Keep your phone charged so you can call 911 if you need to save the day at some point. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:39:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not EMS, but I've performed the Heimlich maneuver successfully once. I'm not a cop, but I've used a firearm to protect the innocent before. How is this any different? Medical shit, even at the basic level, requires training, because perishable skill (like shooting, but harder to go out and practice), and baseline knowledge beyond "front sight, squeeze". |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:44:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whose kid? It doesn't take much physical contact to absorb a lethal dose through the skin...and there's tons of that shit floating around this country. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:48:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a doctor, and I wouldn't put it in my kit. You will for sure 100% get sued by the junkie or obese boomer. If you haven't seen how someone reacts to it, imagine all sensation of pain inhibited, and then almost instantly that being removed, including the natural endorphins. Immediate 10/10 pain. At least in the few I've seen. They will sue you for saving their life. I'd be very cautious in the care I give from my car kit. Many things are best done in an ambulance or hospital. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:48:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't save drug addicts. And if your kid comes into contact it your not being a stand up parent. I can envision a plethora of scenarios where a good kid might be inadvertently exposed to the shit. Merely putting your hand somewhere that has been contaminated with it can kill you. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 3:52:33 PM EDT
[#50]
EMT here. No I don't. I won't either.
IMHO, unless you are a EMS professional or medical professional training to diagnose opioid ODs, then don't bother. Call 911. Basic ABCs and CPR. Let the pro's get into that stuff. Not only that, but I would HIGHLY (HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY) discourage you from getting the syringe. Major liability for yourself if you act outside your scope of training (whatever that may be). Administering drugs via syringe...you need training on. You mess up, now someone has the legal grounds to sue you. With that the nasal spray is expensive. Fuck it. Now if you have a close family member that that uses those types of drugs and worry about dosages or have small kids around, may be worth the $130 for the spray. Would I use that on a person I don't know and I'm not on duty, no. |
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