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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:05:24 PM EDT
[#1]
147 HST.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:08:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Gold Dot 124gr +P IMO is outstanding, IMO.
ETA: I’m issued ammo in a department that has its fair share of shootings over the years. The above load has performed admirably for years. Two years ago we switched to. Ranger 147gr bonded. After a handful of shootings, all I can say is that it’s inconsistent. Some work fine, some have shown extreme over penetration with COM hits, and pretty much intact bullets recovered with no expansion whatsoever. I held on to my issued Gold Dots, and switched my duty and off duty guns back to those. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:09:57 PM EDT
[#3]
HST in 124gr flavor.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:19:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I carry (and hand load) 147gr HST. Period. this is all I carry, except when I carry my .45, then its 230 HSTs. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:20:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Flite Control 00
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:26:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *Hydra-Shok. *Hydra-Shok If you guys are going to make a recommendation to someone, you should at least get the name right. Thank you for your deep and incisively contributory post. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#7]
HST, 147gr for me
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:35:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold Dot 124gr +P IMO is outstanding, IMO. ETA: I'm issued ammo in a department that has its fair share of shootings over the years. The above load has performed admirably for years. Two years ago we switched to. Ranger 147gr bonded. After a handful of shootings, all I can say is that it's inconsistent. Some work fine, some have shown extreme over penetration with COM hits, and pretty much intact bullets recovered with no expansion whatsoever. I held on to my issued Gold Dots, and switched my duty and off duty guns back to those. Thank God I've never had to use them |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:35:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Hornady at 135 has never done me wrong
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:37:39 PM EDT
[#10]
I like non +p 124gr HSTs in subcompacts like the P365 and 147gr HSTs in longer barrels.
-Mike |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:37:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like Gold Dot 124+P personally. I found them to be QUITE hot. So I've had those since forever. I'd not feel undergunned with HST though. This here. And I've found Winchester 9mm NATO makes a good combination with it for practice ammo. Shoots and recoils exactly the same. Not the absolute cheapest as far as plinking ammo, but cheap enough for me. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:39:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Has anyone mentioned federal's HST ammo? Because I feel like federal's HST ammo at least deserves a mention...
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:45:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speer Gold Dot or G2 Federal HST Winchester Ranger or Ranger One Hornady Duty Pick one and go. These, though the others have excellent reputations as well. HST's are what I carry and if I could get them, Winchester Ranger T series. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 9:55:27 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 2/5/2023 10:18:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Looks like they may as well quit making 147gr Golden Saber since I seem to be the only one using it.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 10:27:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whatever the cheapest reloads at your local gunshow are. Those. Old guy usually has “Flame Throwers” loaded “to the top” with mil-spec” surplus powder he got by the barrel decades ago surplus from Uncle Sam, topped with genuine surplus 9mm tracers he drills out to make hollow points & compresses into position & crimped, just a $1 around during the shortage years. He recommends using his high quality loads only in tough enough to take it guns like Ruger Blackhawk Convertibles, HKs, & Glocks. If the flames don’t convince you of the power, the recoil will, on par with 357 magnums! |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 10:30:42 PM EDT
[#17]
115gr +P FMJ
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Posted: 2/5/2023 10:34:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Any HP from a reputable manufacturer will do fine. No handgun ammo is ideal.
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Posted: 2/5/2023 10:45:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Old guy usually has “Flame Throwers” loaded “to the top” with mil-spec” surplus powder he got by the barrel decades ago surplus from Uncle Sam, topped with genuine surplus 9mm tracers he drills out to make hollow points & compresses into position & crimped, just a $1 around during the shortage years. He recommends using his high quality loads only in tough enough to take it guns like Ruger Blackhawk Convertibles, HKs, & Glocks. If the flames don’t convince you of the power, the recoil will, on par with 357 magnums!  
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:15:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right now,i have Sig V-Crown 124 gr. in my pistol. It has been very accurate. Lucky Gunner Labs has some good tests online. I’ve had to put down big javelina attacking my dogs. Each case both large males… 124gr gold dot penetrated the shoulder bone and dead right there. One shot, one kill. Sig 124 gr imbedded in the shoulder and fell out on the ground when it ran off. Switched back to gold dots. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:18:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Barrel length. OP is running a four-inch barrel, so he can shoot just about any JHP and get good expansion. I've seen gel tests done where some 147gr loads didn't want to expand after being shot out of a micro like, say, a P365. ETA that as one user said, certain guns don't play nice with certain ammo. Remember how older 1911s didn't like hollow-point ammo? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What does what you’re shooting it out of matter? Barrel length. OP is running a four-inch barrel, so he can shoot just about any JHP and get good expansion. I've seen gel tests done where some 147gr loads didn't want to expand after being shot out of a micro like, say, a P365. ETA that as one user said, certain guns don't play nice with certain ammo. Remember how older 1911s didn't like hollow-point ammo? It’s all good… though skimming the thread it looks like every load regardless of barrel length up to PCC style - props for the +P+ mention! - has been suggested. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:21:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Sig Elite might not be perfectly optimized, but it’s cheap enough that you can afford to practice.
I’d rather take a round I can hit with than one which will expand into 6 perfect copper petals in the tree 3 feet to his left. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:28:03 PM EDT
[#23]
OST
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:36:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sig Elite might not be perfectly optimized, but it’s cheap enough that you can afford to practice. I’d rather take a round I can hit with than one which will expand into 6 perfect copper petals in the tree 3 feet to his left. I've never noticed a big enough difference between the cheapest steal cased shit vs my preferred carry round to make much of a difference. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:37:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 147gr HSTs for me. Any good, modern JHP in 124gr or 147gr is going to do the job. This |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:40:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Hst
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:43:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federal HST or what your local cops carry. This ! I carry 124 gr Federal HST +P in my CZ P07. Its good stuff . 
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:44:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Federal HST 147grain for me
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:46:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BlackTalons! I can’t tell what’s satire and what’s not anymore. |
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Posted: 2/5/2023 11:51:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Black Talons or Hydroshocks have been my carry ammo for a long time. Both of these were cutting edge performance when introduced three decades ago. They have since been eclipsed by modern designs and suffer relatively mediocre and inconsistent performance in comparison. I’m personally witnessed 124gr Hydra-Shok fail to expand twice under nearly ideal conditions. Dump the meme ammunition and just get some HST or Gold Dot. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:01:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...or what your local cops carry. But, Speed Gold Dot is top shelf, along with the Barnes XPB loads. The new stuff from LeHigh Defense looks very promising and I'll likely choose that round the next time I'm upgrading my self-defense ammunition. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:03:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Best JHP: HST, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, Hornady critical defense. Probably a few others, but these are the ones I remember. Weight preference is dependent on pistol and bullet, but I lean towards 124gr.
Reality: 9mm is 9mm. JHP is typically better than FMJ, but it’s a minute difference. Target won’t know the difference, and shot placement matters more. I’ve done a little backwoods testing with PMC, PPU, and S&B, they work well enough that the price difference is more important, since it allows me to train and carry the same ammo. They’re not as consistent as the rounds listed at the top, but to be frank, if I’m shooting something, I’m shooting it enough times that at least a few of those bullets are going to expand, and all I care about is putting a hole where something vital used to be. Bigger hole is better, but it’s not as big a priority as simply adding more holes. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:07:02 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is sound advice. That would give you a good argument against a prosecutor trying to say you choose the "deadliest" boolits available because you wanted to kill. But, Speed Gold Dot is top shelf, along with the Barnes XPB loads. The new stuff from LeHigh Defense looks very promising and I'll likely choose that round the next time I'm upgrading my self-defense ammunition. Has that ever been an argument in an American courtroom in legal history? Like ever? |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:07:48 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:07:52 AM EDT
[#35]
From my gel testing
Hornady Critical Defense and American Gunner 124gr penetrate just fine and both expand pretty much the same. Oddly the JHPs out of my buddies 10mm are almost identical when you see them sitting on the table next to each other. Penetration was similar. I expected significantly more out of the 10mm. The Lehigh extreme penetrator penetrated fine, had a decent temporary cavity as seen on the high speed but little to no permanent cavity. The recovered bullet hardly looks fired. Montana Gold JHP 124gr was pretty disappointing. It shed the jacket but basically no expansion of the core. Penetrated further than the Hornady stuff that did expand. No surprise there. Whatever aluminum case (CCI?) Stuff I use for 44spl expands beautifully, looks pretty and actually penetrated respectfully from a 2" barrel. Do NOT want to get hit by those. Just my observations. 9mm was shot from an Arcus 94c, basicallyFroma short slide HiPower and the 44spl from a S&W 624 |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:08:08 AM EDT
[#36]
I carry Hornaday Critical Defense or Critical Duty in my Sig 365xl and Glock 19.
Girl friend likes Gold Dots in her 43x. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:08:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From my gel testing Hornady Critical Defense and American Gunner 124gr penetrate just fine and both expand pretty much the same. Oddly the JHPs out of my buddies 10mm are almost identical when you see them sitting on the table next to each other. Penetration was similar. I expected significantly more out of the 10mm. The Lehigh extreme penetrator penetrated fine, had a decent temporary cavity as seen on the high speed but little to no permanent cavity. The recovered bullet hardly looks fired. Montana Gold JHP 124gr was pretty disappointing. It shed the jacket but basically no expansion of the core. Penetrated further than the Hornady stuff that did expand. No surprise there. Whatever aluminum case (CCI?) Stuff I use for 44spl expands beautifully, looks pretty and actually penetrated respectfully from a 2" barrel. Do NOT want to get hit by those. Just my observations. Montana Gold JHP is made for Open Guns, not carry guns. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:16:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Montana Gold JHP is made for Open Guns, not carry guns. Yup, and still a JHP so we tested it along with other 9mm projectiles. Did testing with 10mm, 6mm ARC, 8.6BLK subs that expand to crazy flowers, 22LR, 7.62x25 JHPs from an 8" AR, and 44spl that outing. I think we had some XTPs out there too but I don't remember what caliber. I didn't want to use up any of my .2215 Vmax so I didn't try any of those that day either. We probably put 100 rounds into gel that day. Got slow mo footage of most of the shots fired which was sketchy. Glad my shooting buddy is one I trust my life with. All shots were at 7 yards from the muzzle to gel. Some exited and could not be recovered. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:19:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anyone mentioned federal's HST ammo? Because I feel like federal's HST ammo at least deserves a mention... There is always one guy who wants to use some obscure and unproven round 
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Posted: 2/6/2023 12:21:18 AM EDT
[#40]
Do your own research.
Go find shooting the bull on youtube. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:16:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has that ever been an argument in an American courtroom in legal history? Like ever? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is sound advice. That would give you a good argument against a prosecutor trying to say you choose the "deadliest" boolits available because you wanted to kill. But, Speed Gold Dot is top shelf, along with the Barnes XPB loads. The new stuff from LeHigh Defense looks very promising and I'll likely choose that round the next time I'm upgrading my self-defense ammunition. Has that ever been an argument in an American courtroom in legal history? Like ever? The walking, talking, sack of shit Thomas Clair Binger tried to make FMJ bullets an issue in the Rittenhouse trial. He said they were designed to penetrate the first person and continue on to injure more. Fuck you, Binger. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:18:50 AM EDT
[#42]
I carry 147gr HST
But Gold Dots work well too. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:19:33 AM EDT
[#43]
Critical duty 135grn +p, the FBI load.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:29:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both of these were cutting edge performance when introduced three decades ago. They have since been eclipsed by modern designs and suffer relatively mediocre and inconsistent performance in comparison. I’m personally witnessed 124gr Hydra-Shok fail to expand twice under nearly ideal conditions. Dump the meme ammunition and just get some HST or Gold Dot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Black Talons or Hydroshocks have been my carry ammo for a long time. Both of these were cutting edge performance when introduced three decades ago. They have since been eclipsed by modern designs and suffer relatively mediocre and inconsistent performance in comparison. I’m personally witnessed 124gr Hydra-Shok fail to expand twice under nearly ideal conditions. Dump the meme ammunition and just get some HST or Gold Dot. The only good hydrashoks are .357s |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:35:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got a bunch of HSTs on sale before prices got stupid. They are gtg, as are gold dots and probably a few others mentioned I assume. Don't overthink it op, the difference between the top ones is negligible. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 1:37:09 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: P9HST2. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:04:38 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has that ever been an argument in an American courtroom in legal history? Like ever? "It hits the target, it opens up, it creates six talons, and these talons are sharp," Mangena said. "It cuts through the organs of a human being." -SAPS ballistics expert, Captain Chris Mangena, testifying about the use of "Black Talon" ammunition in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:26:51 AM EDT
[#48]
124 or 147 gr Gold dot or HST
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Posted: 2/6/2023 2:27:57 AM EDT
[#49]
147 gr HST for all the barrel lengths, micro too!
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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:07:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From DocGKR, who used to post here until the retardation in the tech subforums ran him off: While this list is from 2016, it really hasn't changed. I prefer HST; 147 or 124+P. Quote HistoryQuoted: From DocGKR, who used to post here until the retardation in the tech subforums ran him off: The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use: 9 mm: Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet) Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1) Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3) Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD) Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP) Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA) Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA) Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5) Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2) Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC) Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP Speer G2 147 gr PT Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T) Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364) .40 S&W: Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet) Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3) Speer Gold Dot 165 gr JHP Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA) Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1) Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1) Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB) Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T) Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1) .45 ACP: Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet) Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2) Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1) Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1) Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T) Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP) While this list is from 2016, it really hasn't changed. I prefer HST; 147 or 124+P. Oh damn, you read my mind, I just went over and copied that, to paste it here. Well done. |
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